Getting defensive..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    Anonymis makes a fair point Rusty.  Unless some of the recent acquisitions (like Jones and Hightower) pan out, there isn't a great answer to his question:

    So, name some impact defensive players that were drafted, traded for, or acquired from free agency ON or AFTER 2005?  More hits or misses?

    Other than Mayo, there were not a lot of impact players acquired from 2005 through 2009.  We've done a bit better starting in 2010, but five years of weak acquisitions on defense have left the D a bit undermanned. Part of the problem has been the lack of high draft picks . . . it's harder to get great talent when you're drafting at the very bottom of round one or in lower rounds.  But the point is still a valid one and one reason why the defense has not been as strong as a BB defense usually is.  BB does a great job of coaching up JAGs and getting the most from them, but talent does matter and having really good players is critical to being a strong contender for championships.    I do think, though, that the D is looking like it's on the upswing in the past three or so years, with Belichick clearly devoting more draft picks to that side of the ball and (in Talib) bringing in that FA who can have impact.      

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    Prolate, to expand on some thoughts.

    I think people forget that BB, in all likelihood, probably tries to make roster improvements every year.  I'm thinking, in 2005 and 2006 - there was no urgency because the Patriots organization was coming off of 3 SB wins in 4 seasons. So, why change much, right?


    Then, in 2007 - some decisions had to be made. The team had to make decisions - where was the priority at the time? What were the trends? 

    Without going back and researching, I'm guessing that most of the focus of putting a competitive team on the field  - meant an emphasis on offense. Hence, spending on the likes of Randy Moss (2007-2009), Wes Welker (2007-2012), Rob Gronkowski (2010-Current), Aaron Hernandez (2010-Current), Donte Stallworth (2007, 2012), Sebastian Vollmer (2009-Current), Logan Mankins (2005-Current), Nate Solder (2011-Current), Marcus Cannon (2011-Current), Shane Vereen (2011-Current), stevan Ridley (2011-Current) .

    Sure, he tried to tweak the defense too - but BB ended up choosing duds on defense in the draft (like Shawn Crable), and guys like Adalia Thomas and Leigh Bodden(free agency?) and Albert Haynesworth (trade) simply missed.

    We also lost a 2008 first round draft choice due to spygate.

    So, due to an empahsis on putting together a finesse offense, an aging running back corp, and a little bad luck, BB was forced to make some moves in 2010 - drafting the likes of McCourty (2010-Current), Jermaine Cunningham (2010-Current), Brandon Spikes (2010-Current), Ras I Dowling (2011-Current), Chandler Jones (2012-Current), Donta Hightower (2012-Current), Tavon Wilson (2012-Current), and Alfonso Dennard (2012-Current).


    Like you said, it wasn't really until 2010 that BB had to rotate his emphasis - going back to focusing on defense.

    I am hoping that he is NOT done trying to build up the pass rush and defensive backs. We need to be back in the top 5 in points against - and back to middling when it comes to things like passing yards given up per game. Most importantly, we need playmakers on defense.  I still consider the Pass rush to be the key simply because if they can force the opposing QB to make mistakes - it will cover up any continued weakness we see in defensive backs.  If BB chooses to focus on the defensive backs first - and we continue to have problems w/ pass rush - IT SIMPLY IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A SIGNFICANT DIFFERENCE BECAUSE EVENTUALLY RECEIVERS WILL GET OPEN.

    Anyway, my two cents.

     

     

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    .

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to Action-Jackson's comment:

    .



    All action, no talk, I guess . . .

     
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    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to Action-Jackson's comment:

     

    .

     



    All action, no talk, I guess . . .

     




     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Anonymis makes a fair point Rusty.  Unless some of the recent acquisitions (like Jones and Hightower) pan out, there isn't a great answer to his question:

    So, name some impact defensive players that were drafted, traded for, or acquired from free agency ON or AFTER 2005?  More hits or misses?

    Other than Mayo, there were not a lot of impact players acquired from 2005 through 2009.  We've done a bit better starting in 2010, but five years of weak acquisitions on defense have left the D a bit undermanned. Part of the problem has been the lack of high draft picks . . . it's harder to get great talent when you're drafting at the very bottom of round one or in lower rounds.  But the point is still a valid one and one reason why the defense has not been as strong as a BB defense usually is.  BB does a great job of coaching up JAGs and getting the most from them, but talent does matter and having really good players is critical to being a strong contender for championships.    I do think, though, that the D is looking like it's on the upswing in the past three or so years, with Belichick clearly devoting more draft picks to that side of the ball and (in Talib) bringing in that FA who can have impact.      



    I think we have a core of younger players on D who are playmakers - but I will agree that in general they have not proven themselves YET to be truly impact players... the core I am refering to include:

    1. Mayo

    2. Spikes

    3. Hightower

    4. Jones

    5. Nink (I will concede he is not an impact player as much as a playmaker)

    6. McCourty

    7. Dennard

    8. Talib

    I am hoping that many of these guys take a good step forward in their development.

     

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    lmao.  BB remakes the team every year. You tard.

    I chose 2005 as a reference point, because it was 1 year removed from a SB win and because 2004 appears to be the last year that a significant defensive player was picked up.


    So, on or after 2005 - who did the Patriots pick up that had a huge impact on D?  Numerous posts have outlined what has happened between 2005-2010, and from 2010-2012.

    Me

    "well, the remaking of the defense has been going on since about 2005.  It's not like the effort started last year.

     

    So, my question is - defensively, have the Patriots, overall, had more hits or  misses in drafting, trades, and free agency pick ups?

    "


    You:

    "

    Actually, Harrison was acquired so was Vrabel. Are you this dumb or arrogant?  Your premise is that NE was "rebuilding" in 2005, which is clearly false and incredibly embarrassing for you as a fan. 

     

    Colvin and many others were also brought in.  And what's funny is they were vets in a far easier era to play defense in than this one.

     

    NE drafted Law and Milloy when they SUCKED.  Get it?  THis means they were in a better draft position. Milloy was replaced by the superior Harrison in FA. You seem to be struggling.

    "

    So, BB doesn't rebuild the team every year?

    Me: "I was referring to the defense since 2005.  So, answer the question. After 2005, who have the Patriots drafted, traded for, or acquired thru free agency that had an impact on our defense. It's not a trick question. You just don't want to admit that the players new to the team since 2005 really didn't have an impact - resulting in today's d."

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    no backpedaling and spinning required.  You simply didn't understand what people were saying. It's your MO. you take something out of context and twist it to make things like it were all Brady's fault.

    You basically have your vesion of the “7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon” drinking game except for you, it's the "7 degrees of Blaming Brady" drinking game.  What a tard. Anyone with common sense knows that that the 2 SB losses were a team failure, including bad planning and coaching by BB and the coaching staff. On top of that, give the NYG a little credit here. They made the one or two extra plays that the Patriots couldn't.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    no backpedaling and spinning required.  You simply didn't understand what people were saying. It's your MO. you take something out of context and twist it to make things like it were all Brady's fault.

    You basically have your vesion of the “7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon” drinking game except for you, it's the "7 degrees of Blaming Brady" drinking game.  What a tard. Anyone with common sense knows that that the 2 SB losses were a team failure, including bad planning and coaching by BB and the coaching staff. On top of that, give the NYG a little credit here. They made the one or two extra plays that the Patriots couldn't.

     



    Oh, I understand. I understand very well how the media has brainwashed some of our own fans to the point they've become so irrational, believing that ihe sn't a good GM and always blame BB while Brady plays in a subpar fashion and makes some horrendous on field decisions.

    I don't care if it's the 4th and 2 in Indy. A god awful spot of the ball is also BB's fault.

    I blame the entire offense, the OC with the playcalling and yes, Brady in an offensive era in the offense that he's wanted.  I blame that offense a lot more than I blame young kids brought together as part of a new D learning together as one as they go. Yep. I sure do. Most normal people do.

    Week 17 2007:

    BB: "Good day to throw, huh"?  

    Brady: "When 'isn't it' a good day to throw"?

    Whether you want to accept it or not, BB was giving Brady what he wanted and then some after 2006 when BB had to let Branch walk.   Moss and Welker, and a whole lot of shotgun spread.

    "I prefer the shotgun spread" - T. Brady 2010

    So, yes, this is why I feel our QB preferring a certain formation and being entrusted with it, to the run of 8 TDs and 9 INTs in AFC title games since the 2006 playoffs, is a MAJOR PROBLEM.  Read that again.  A good TD/INT ratio for a QB should be 2:1.  That's an inverted ratio!  

    His overall postseason numbers since your favorite 2005 referenced point season is also poor.  It's not a 2:1 TD//INT ratio, I can tell you that. It's something more like 27 TDs and 17 INTs (that's before his 2 INTS this AFC title game). So, make that 28 TDs and 19 INTs.  NOT GOOD. That's a lot of INTs.  That's Brett Favre, which is why he's completely overrated.

    God forbid it's considered a bigger problem than 4th rd pick Jonathan Wilhite not morphing into Ty Law by 2009.

    Pretty freakin simple.

    7 degrees my asz.   Brady's ego became out of control in 2007, going into SB 42, he lost all of 2008 and tried to recapture glories in 2009.  BB saw it early in 2010, dealt Moss.

    2011 happens off a lockout with limited camp and Brady is trying to do it all himself yet again, with this apparent attitude of superiority, that he can do it all himself. So obvious.

    It went on for most of 2011, to the point, he was having his worst year since 2002 throwing INTs at an alarming rate.

    None of this has anything to do with BB as a GM.  None of it.  Meanwhile, Brady is off in Brazil dancing, building mansions in OJ Simpson's old neighborhood when he used to be in Foxborough working out with the Branches, the Givens, the Pattens, etc. When was the last time he won the offseason award? 2003?

    Real Pats fans could care less about bloated regular season stats for him against bad Ds. All I need to know is the MAJOR PROBLEM that is his postseason performances. Shoot me for choosing to look at that PROBLEM first and foremost over BB's wise move to build his new D and overall team mostly via the draft due to unknown financial parameters into a lockout.

    You or no one is going to change my opinion on this, so just forget it. He's had numerous chances to back up his comments about caring about winning another ring, most recently a much cleaner 4th qtr in SB 46.

    That gameplan from BB was quite good, but it doesn't get recognized because of two our best players melting down when the chips were on the table.

    And, it's not debatable.  Each played poorly in that 4th qtr and just faded away.  Don't think for a second BB didn't walk from Welker partly due to his drops, too.  No doubt that played into that lowered offer from the 8 mil.

    Welker had 24 drops this year in that shotgun spread garbage. 24.

     




    lmao. Your irrational response says it all. You are a genius in your own mind.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    it was bb's fault for cheating and losing a first round pick

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    Sure. Sweet backpedal. Me realizing what the real issue has been is not me thinking I am a genius in my own mind.

    The Moss and Welker or the TEs/Welker experiment as the base of the offense, is over. Over.

    Get over it.

    Let's just hope Brady can revert back to old Brady here in the next 3 seasons.  




    and what was the backpedal?

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    If a person is a genius in his own mind what is he when he's out of his mind?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    He was caught cheating and was penalized accordingly.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     


    The backpedal is you not countering after I laid out facts and a precise timeline to capture the backdrop of what has transpired since 2005.

     

    Go back to listening ton Tony Mazz and Felger while reading Borges and Gregg Easterbrook columns.



    others and I already summarized our viewpoints on what happened between 2005-2010, and 2010-2012. So, what specifically did I backpedal on?

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Getting defensive..

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    it was bb's fault for cheating and losing a first round pick

     



    No, it's not. First off, that's not cheating.  Please learn the rules. This is what I mean, right here.  You're just one of these brainwashed, REALLY strange kiddie Pats fans who loves Brady and needs a scapegoat as to why Brady has no accountability.  The Jets weren't punished for it in 2006 because Goodell chose not to apply his rules to all NFL teams, BB then threw that in their face the next year in NY, and Goodell overreacted, as substantiated years later.

     

    Just because Goodell applied the rule differently than Tagliabue, doesn't mean "BB cheated".

    If BB cheated, then so did the Jets in 2006, many other teams and coaches like Bill Cowher who had just retired after the 2005 season.

    BB messing with Mangini, with that obvious backstory still hot, is not "cheating", Corky.

     




    it was deemed cheating by the NFL. He was penalized accordingly. Your interpretation doesn't count. LOL. He still cheats by allowing players to use banned substances...

     
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