Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    Starting to see discussions about how we can see the Patriots overcome the loss of AH to the team and the impact to the offense.  If anything, we need more discussions about the team and moving forward than all the conjectures about why Hern did this and that.  Let the courts and media pundits have at it.  Let's put the AH off field issue behind us.  Starting now....

    The worst aspect of this to the Pats, IMHO, is the loss of the most dangerous Two TE set in the NFL. A duo that set the standard in the NFL many teams are now trying to emmulate.  Most considered it just about undefendable.  How many think Ballard can fit it?  I do not think he can do the backfield stuff like AH did, but, he is still a real good TE.  Many are thinking Tebow.  But, is he a receiver type player? How much speed does he have?  The good about all this, if we can say there is a good to it, we have TB and BB as leaders.  The Pats have lost many a key player over the years and all the team did is plug in some one else.  If anything, the offense will survive.  The key to this season is the continued improvement in the defense.  If that side of the ball steps up, let see another ring in the trophy case!

    GO PATS!!!!!

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TebowOwnsBrady. Show TebowOwnsBrady's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    Thanks for the laugh.   Laughing

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME2. Show NEGAME2's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to TebowOwnsBrady's comment:

     

    Thanks for the laugh.   Laughing

     

    tebow-thanks for coming on here and giving ME a good laugh you silly little boy you. O wow you found our message board, and you think your taunts bother us ????!!! I supouse you think you are the only one who has ever done this.. Really you are silly you sound silly and you probably look silly.  A Denver fan trying to get under our skin NEVER go away you little weeny whacker .


     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to NEGAME2's comment:

    In response to TebowOwnsBrady's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Thanks for the laugh.   Laughing

     

    tebow-thanks for coming on here and giving ME a good laugh you silly little boy you. O wow you found our message board, and you think your taunts bother us ????!!! I supouse you think you are the only one who has ever done this.. Really you are silly you sound silly and you probably look silly.  A Denver fan trying to get under our skin NEVER go away you little weeney whacker .


     

    [/QUOTE]


    WOW!! You go girl!! Put the 'look at me, I'm starving for attention' little weeny in his place!! I hope you are playing in the fantsy league again this year...

    The reigning champion...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!


    Wow, a Denver troll!!  Just may be Leon and one of his many personalities surfacing.  Seems the pattern is the same.

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    I was over it before it happened.

     

     

     photo BBandtheRat_zpsc338a3a1.gif

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    Back on point, agc - I actually think having two guys Gronk's size actually makes the 2 TE set more dangerous. Lets face it, Hern was an average to slightly above average blocking TE. Most of the runs were not in his direction for sweeps or were inside the tackles so teams cheated to Gronks side on running downs anticipating  which side the run was to. Now if you get a Ballard (who is a better runner blocker to Hern but less of a receiving threat) teams can no longer cheat on the run game. Given the greeness of the receiving core having the balanced blocking TE line with Gronk and Ballard (who can both break off for passes) prevents teams from overloading towards one side or the other on running downs. Now the 2 TE set will take a hit on passing downs  but again you are buying Brady more time in the pocket against blitzes on the outside because of the enhanced blocking capability and you have more option releases since the TE's can read and react to the direction the pressure is coming instead of a planned release to get Hern in the open field.

    So overall the passing game will take a hit but there is a chance for some D confusion/mismatch option releases and provided the running game picks up the slack could lead to a more effective running game.


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Back on point, agc - I actually think having two guys Gronk's size actually makes the 2 TE set more dangerous. Lets face it, Hern was an average to slightly above average blocking TE. Most of the runs were not in his direction for sweeps or were inside the tackles so teams cheated to Gronks side on running downs anticipating  which side the run was to. Now if you get a Ballard (who is a better runner blocker to Hern but less of a receiving threat) teams can no longer cheat on the run game. Given the greeness of the receiving core having the balanced blocking TE line with Gronk and Ballard (who can both break off for passes) prevents teams from overloading towards one side or the other on running downs. Now the 2 TE set will take a hit on passing downs  but again you are buying Brady more time in the pocket against blitzes on the outside because of the enhanced blocking capability and you have more option releases since the TE's can read and react to the direction the pressure is coming instead of a planned release to get Hern in the open field.

    So overall the passing game will take a hit but there is a chance for some D confusion/mismatch option releases and provided the running game picks up the slack could lead to a more effective running game.


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus




    I agree with this.  It seems like NE has been trending toward more of a "power running attack" anyway in the past year or two.  Ridley is a really nice lead back, and a Bolden/Blount combo would provide us with a really nice power punch behind our very good O-Line.  If we can run it effectively this year, the passing game will take care of itself, with or without AH.  Remember, we averaged 42.8 pts per game in the games that he missed last year.  It isn't like we can't score without him.  Look for Vereen to play a lot as not only a 3rd down back, but also a tight formation slot reciever this year.  The guy has very good hands for a RB, and he is very dangerous in space.  If our defense improves this year like I think it will, we will be a very good team again.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Back on point, agc - I actually think having two guys Gronk's size actually makes the 2 TE set more dangerous. Lets face it, Hern was an average to slightly above average blocking TE. Most of the runs were not in his direction for sweeps or were inside the tackles so teams cheated to Gronks side on running downs anticipating  which side the run was to. Now if you get a Ballard (who is a better runner blocker to Hern but less of a receiving threat) teams can no longer cheat on the run game. Given the greeness of the receiving core having the balanced blocking TE line with Gronk and Ballard (who can both break off for passes) prevents teams from overloading towards one side or the other on running downs. Now the 2 TE set will take a hit on passing downs  but again you are buying Brady more time in the pocket against blitzes on the outside because of the enhanced blocking capability and you have more option releases since the TE's can read and react to the direction the pressure is coming instead of a planned release to get Hern in the open field.

    So overall the passing game will take a hit but there is a chance for some D confusion/mismatch option releases and provided the running game picks up the slack could lead to a more effective running game.


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus



    Well I think this type of system will only work (at least as well as it did for us) is if both our tight ends are serious recieving threats. Otherwise defenses will just bring guys up into the box for a slug match - you need the threat of being able to send one, or both of your tight ends out for passes, if you only have one that scares teams defenses will handle it. Personally I think the whole season is tied into Gronk's health now, because he is the one piece that makes that offense special (besides Brady). Now if we all of the sudden are a better all around team - built well on both sides of the ball - hen I think things can be different. And that remains to be seen.

    I think Hernandez was a good player when healthy, he would take that short pass along the sideline and turn up field in a flash for 10 more yards, but when was the last time we saw him do that? His game is speed, when the injuries happen (which they always do with him) he plays more like a 2 million dollar h-back. I think those guys are a dime a dozen. This guy was not Gronkowski.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME2. Show NEGAME2's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:

    In response to NEGAME2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TebowOwnsBrady's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Thanks for the laugh.   Laughing

     

     

    tebow-thanks for coming on here and giving ME a good laugh you silly little boy you. O wow you found our message board, and you think your taunts bother us ????!!! I supouse you think you are the only one who has ever done this.. Really you are silly you sound silly and you probably look silly.  A Denver fan trying to get under our skin NEVER go away you little weeney whacker .


     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    WOW!! You go girl!! Put the 'look at me, I'm starving for attention' little weeny in his place!! I hope you are playing in the fantsy league again this year...

    The reigning champion...

    [/QUOTE]


    Hi Champ- yes and looking forward to playing again.  just got an e mail fron the NFL that the league has been activated . cain't wait.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    I was over it before it happened.

     

     

     photo BBandtheRat_zpsc338a3a1.gif

     




    Nice. Pound the rat

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    It's hard to find a TE with the quickness of AH.  With his size, speed, and quickness, he really bridged four positions: TE, FB, RB, and WR. It's not like the Pats have never used two TEs before.  They did it with Graham and Watson for a while too.  Other teams have used double TEs as their base too.  Colts did it for years as just one example.  Using two TEs is nothing new. What made the Pats' two TE offense so potent was the quality of the players and their versatility.  The players were more important than the scheme.  Without the players, I see the scheme used less.  It is possible that they'll do what Eng is describing--go to more power formations with two TEs.  But that's very different from what they were doing with Hern and Gronk.  It's still to be seen whether such a power offense will worlk for them.  They haven't been built that way for years, and their linemen and backs will need to complement that approah too for it to work well.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    WHO?









    with enough thrust, pigs fly just fine!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    It's hard to find a TE with the quickness of AH.  With his size, speed, and quickness, he really bridged four positions: TE, FB, RB, and WR. It's not like the Pats have never used two TEs before.  They did it with Graham and Watson for a while too.  Other teams have used double TEs as their base too.  Colts did it for years as just one example.  Using two TEs is nothing new. What made the Pats' two TE offense so potent was the quality of the players and their versatility.  The players were more important than the scheme.  Without the players, I see the scheme used less.  It is possible that they'll do what Eng is describing--go to more power formations with two TEs.  But that's very different from what they were doing with Hern and Gronk.  It's still to be seen whether such a power offense will worlk for them.  They haven't been built that way for years, and their linemen and backs will need to complement that approah too for it to work well.

     




    Curran calls him a swiss army knife. Good analogy.

     

    Problem with a swiss army knife is that it is way better to have than nothing for a given  problem, but way not as good as actually having the proper tool for the problem.

     

    AH was a luxury option, not a solution to any specific need. Our problem right now is very specific needs, not having an extra luxury.

    Plus, you couldn't count on the guy. He too dropped too many big balls.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    Despite the Commy's mouth breathing, this thing will die down soon and then, six or nine months from now if there is a trial, it will be back. In the interim, there won't be much of anything to talk about. Think about the Zimmerman trial, which is a far bigger deal. We heard relatively nothing about it the last eight months or so, really until they started jury selection.

    I also have a feeling there will not be a trial for AH, that he will plead out in the face of overwhelming evidence. You never know about those things, but it's hard to see (right now, at least) how they're going to defend against all that. Especially if one or more of his co-conspirators flips.

    Some hater writer will write some story to keep the thing going to try and distract the Pats and annoy us, and of course the trolls will never let it go, but as far as major national media focus, that is coming to an end soon. That's just the nature of these things.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to NEGAME2's comment:

     

    WOW!! You go girl!! Put the 'look at me, I'm starving for attention' little weeny in his place!! I hope you are playing in the fantsy league again this year...

    The reigning champion...

     

     

    Hi Champ- yes and looking forward to playing again.  just got an e mail fron the NFL that the league has been activated . cain't wait.



    "the reigning champion"  Hahaha, nice!  Enjoy that for a short time longer because you won't be the reigning champ after this season.  It's about time I take the title!

    Thanks NEGAME for mentioning that you received an email about the league being activated.  I activated it the other night, was not aware it let everyone know that it had been activated.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    It's hard to find a TE with the quickness of AH.  With his size, speed, and quickness, he really bridged four positions: TE, FB, RB, and WR. It's not like the Pats have never used two TEs before.  They did it with Graham and Watson for a while too.  Other teams have used double TEs as their base too.  Colts did it for years as just one example.  Using two TEs is nothing new. What made the Pats' two TE offense so potent was the quality of the players and their versatility.  The players were more important than the scheme.  Without the players, I see the scheme used less.  It is possible that they'll do what Eng is describing--go to more power formations with two TEs.  But that's very different from what they were doing with Hern and Gronk.  It's still to be seen whether such a power offense will worlk for them.  They haven't been built that way for years, and their linemen and backs will need to complement that approah too for it to work well.

     

     




    Curran calls him a swiss army knife. Good analogy.

     

     

    Problem with a swiss army knife is that it is way better to have than nothing for a given  problem, but way not as good as actually having the proper tool for the problem.

     

    AH was a luxury option, not a solution to any specific need. Our problem right now is very specific needs, not having an extra luxury.

    Plus, you couldn't count on the guy. He too dropped too many big balls.

    [/QUOTE]

    I sort of agree with the swiss army knife analogy Babe, but having a guy as versatile as AH creates match up problems and allows you to morph into different schemes without changing players and this causes problems for opposing defenses who don't know ahead of time whether AH is a FB, a slot receiver, a TE, or a wideout. 

    I do feel AH was less effective during the past year or so.  He seemed to be prone to drops and sometimes seemed to disappear.  Injuries had something to do with a decrease in production, but I was beginning to worry he might be a flash in the pan anyway.  I don't think by itself the loss of Hernandez will be that damaging, but there are enough other issues (Gronk's health, complete revamp of the WR position) to leave me uncertain about the offense next year.  Not negative, not positive, just uncertain.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Getting past the AH issue... good day to start!

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Starting to see discussions about how we can see the Patriots overcome the loss of AH to the team and the impact to the offense.  If anything, we need more discussions about the team and moving forward than all the conjectures about why Hern did this and that.  Let the courts and media pundits have at it.  Let's put the AH off field issue behind us.  Starting now....

    The worst aspect of this to the Pats, IMHO, is the loss of the most dangerous Two TE set in the NFL. A duo that set the standard in the NFL many teams are now trying to emmulate.  Most considered it just about undefendable.  How many think Ballard can fit it?  I do not think he can do the backfield stuff like AH did, but, he is still a real good TE.  Many are thinking Tebow.  But, is he a receiver type player? How much speed does he have?  The good about all this, if we can say there is a good to it, we have TB and BB as leaders.  The Pats have lost many a key player over the years and all the team did is plug in some one else.  If anything, the offense will survive.  The key to this season is the continued improvement in the defense.  If that side of the ball steps up, let see another ring in the trophy case!

    GO PATS!!!!!



    Mmm. Ballard is ok. If he is healthy it's a different, less dynamic offense. He only upgrades blocking. 

    Tebow won't be a real player. 

    I'm more excited about Sudfeld. I expect Ballard to take on the major duties, but I like Sudfeld as a project. 

     
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