Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    Am as big draft nut as anyone but also like breaking down the roster once the season is done.  There some very interesting guys on the roster, understanding impact and how much talent they are helps in draft talks.  This will be guys on IR or PS, not on active roster in 2013.

    So there were some Rookies and other players who are very intreguing coming into 2014.  Here's the list. ( height weight based on Patriots.com)

    Armond Amstead (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 IR) I'm starting with the best known guy, 2009 and 2010 played full seasons at USC both at DE and DT.  2011 he suffered the chest pains which sidelined him, he was cleared but 2012 but SC didn't take him back he went to play in Canada.  2013 he suffered an "infection?" so a year removed from it, he should be back healthy.

    What is he?  He's an interior pass rusher, quickness multiple moves to get penetration and the QB.  Had he not had the injury at SC could had been a late 2nd to 4th round pick. 

    Corey Grissom (R) 6'2" 316lbs DT (2013 IR)Staying with DT, now this is a kid I think could had helped last season had he not landed on IR.  He's a space eater who plugs up the middle against the run.  Some quickness but not catching anyone from behind.  Has had injury history, major part he went undrafted.  He's a mid round talent.

    Marcus Forston (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 PS) Now to me this is a head scratcher, those who followed Forston coming out knew there were question marks all over him but he was a talented DT.  I thought first year would be a red shirt, most thought he came out a year too early.  So in 2013 I thought he would make a jump and be solid, that never happened so this one is hard for me.  Not sure why once one of the most recruited high school DTs that played at a high level in college is not getting it.  If he gets it, he could be at minimum a solid starter.  This is a guy with above average movement skills for his size, bench pressed 35 times at 225lbs but leverage is not sound so that strength doesn't is not translating to the field.

    Mark Harrison (R) 6'3" 230lbs WR (yes lol WR) (2013 Non-Football Injury) If there's a player I can get excited about just in pure God given ability this is it.  Since 2005 4 players have ran a sub 4.50 had a 37" vert and a 10'.5" broad jump, Calvin Johnson, Jonathan Balwin, Matt Jones and Mark Harrison.  Per NFL.com combine results, here are the underwear olympics results for Harrison: 4.46 40, 17 reps 225lbs, 38.5 vert, 10.75 broad, 6.99 3 cone.

    Why did he go undrafted, he broke his foot while warming up on his proday.  He couldn't workout for teams, he was only considered a mid round selection before the foot injury.  He has all the tools but has been inconsistant.  At times looks like tarzan plays like Jane.  Although he went undrafted he had a good number of teams calling.  Signed with the Bears failed physical then joined NE.  

    T.J. Moe (R) 6'0" 200lbs WR (2013 IR) This is a pure slot receiver with some ability to play outside but his better traits are his suddenness and hands.  Runs good routes makes his money, well let me do the comparison.  His a very poor man's WW, his 40 time resembles WW, tough kid who makes his money running the routes the Pats make their money on.  He had a torn achilies so what's his status for 2014 unknown.  Based on him as a player I wouldn't bet against him, will he be the next unknown WR to have a 100 catch season?  Was a high school QB who transitioned to WR in college.  My front runner to compete for Edelman's spot if he leaves and Moe is fully recovered from the injury.  Willing to block or do what's asked of him.  Strength (26 reps 225) does translate to the field, at mizzu has been kept in as a blocker.

    Sam McGuffie (R) 5'10" 200lbs WR/RB (2013 PS) Out of these guys he is the one that has had the bigger of injury history only because it has been concussions.  Quick, fast, sudden and good hands.  He has the tools but those multiple concussions are a major concern IMO.  

    Braxton Cave (R) 6'3" 305lbs OC (2013 PS) IMO too similar to wendell, tough undersized kid that is smart and hard working but limited because of their athletisism.  Could be a serviceble backup but would like to see Pats get a stud OC.

    There are others that were on IR or PS but these players are ones I consider to keep Patriots from drafting a player because of what's already on the roster.  Wish I had the medical report on each but with a year to recover for most, are they 100% now? Big question.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    Pats7393-----thanks for this breakdown. Sounds like you feel there is some talent that can help.

    JE is a talent but I think BB has some thoughts that he has players that could replace him if he wants more than the slot is worth.

    Talib is a different story---I think they will proceed cautiously especially with his injury history.

     
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    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Am as big draft nut as anyone but also like breaking down the roster once the season is done.  There some very interesting guys on the roster, understanding impact and how much talent they are helps in draft talks.  This will be guys on IR or PS, not on active roster in 2013.

    So there were some Rookies and other players who are very intreguing coming into 2014.  Here's the list. ( height weight based on Patriots.com)

    Armond Amstead (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 IR) I'm starting with the best known guy, 2009 and 2010 played full seasons at USC both at DE and DT.  2011 he suffered the chest pains which sidelined him, he was cleared but 2012 but SC didn't take him back he went to play in Canada.  2013 he suffered an "infection?" so a year removed from it, he should be back healthy.

    What is he?  He's an interior pass rusher, quickness multiple moves to get penetration and the QB.  Had he not had the injury at SC could had been a late 2nd to 4th round pick. 

    Corey Grissom (R) 6'2" 316lbs DT (2013 IR)Staying with DT, now this is a kid I think could had helped last season had he not landed on IR.  He's a space eater who plugs up the middle against the run.  Some quickness but not catching anyone from behind.  Has had injury history, major part he went undrafted.  He's a mid round talent.

    Marcus Forston (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 PS) Now to me this is a head scratcher, those who followed Forston coming out knew there were question marks all over him but he was a talented DT.  I thought first year would be a red shirt, most thought he came out a year too early.  So in 2013 I thought he would make a jump and be solid, that never happened so this one is hard for me.  Not sure why once one of the most recruited high school DTs that played at a high level in college is not getting it.  If he gets it, he could be at minimum a solid starter.  This is a guy with above average movement skills for his size, bench pressed 35 times at 225lbs but leverage is not sound so that strength doesn't is not translating to the field.

    Mark Harrison (R) 6'3" 230lbs WR (yes lol WR) (2013 Non-Football Injury) If there's a player I can get excited about just in pure God given ability this is it.  Since 2005 4 players have ran a sub 4.50 had a 37" vert and a 10'.5" broad jump, Calvin Johnson, Jonathan Balwin, Matt Jones and Mark Harrison.  Per NFL.com combine results, here are the underwear olympics results for Harrison: 4.46 40, 17 reps 225lbs, 38.5 vert, 10.75 broad, 6.99 3 cone.

    Why did he go undrafted, he broke his foot while warming up on his proday.  He couldn't workout for teams, he was only considered a mid round selection before the foot injury.  He has all the tools but has been inconsistant.  At times looks like tarzan plays like Jane.  Although he went undrafted he had a good number of teams calling.  Signed with the Bears failed physical then joined NE.  

    T.J. Moe (R) 6'0" 200lbs WR (2013 IR) This is a pure slot receiver with some ability to play outside but his better traits are his suddenness and hands.  Runs good routes makes his money, well let me do the comparison.  His a very poor man's WW, his 40 time resembles WW, tough kid who makes his money running the routes the Pats make their money on.  He had a torn achilies so what's his status for 2014 unknown.  Based on him as a player I wouldn't bet against him, will he be the next unknown WR to have a 100 catch season?  Was a high school QB who transitioned to WR in college.  My front runner to compete for Edelman's spot if he leaves and Moe is fully recovered from the injury.  Willing to block or do what's asked of him.  Strength (26 reps 225) does translate to the field, at mizzu has been kept in as a blocker.

    Sam McGuffie (R) 5'10" 200lbs WR/RB (2013 PS) Out of these guys he is the one that has had the bigger of injury history only because it has been concussions.  Quick, fast, sudden and good hands.  He has the tools but those multiple concussions are a major concern IMO.  

    Braxton Cave (R) 6'3" 305lbs OC (2013 PS) IMO too similar to wendell, tough undersized kid that is smart and hard working but limited because of their athletisism.  Could be a serviceble backup but would like to see Pats get a stud OC.

    There are others that were on IR or PS but these players are ones I consider to keep Patriots from drafting a player because of what's already on the roster.  Wish I had the medical report on each but with a year to recover for most, are they 100% now? Big question.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Awesome post, man... great detail.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    To me Harrison is the most intriguing. As for the others:

    Armstead - it wasn't just one injury but a bunch of off and on injures in college. He didn't have a single healthy season. He was a blue chip coming out of high school but never fully lived up to it. Yes he has late 2nd - 3rd talent upside but that inconsistency knocks him down a round and when you add in his constant track of injures you can see why he went undrafted and why the Pats got him for such a great future deal last year, because the vast majority of teams didn't want him. At this point he's a camp body (as I called him last year) and needs to earn a spot, nothing else. Don't think you can call him an extra pick at all more like an UDFA trying to earn his spot at this point.

    Grissom - Similar injury history as Armstead and just like Armstead to me he's a camp body and competition for a DT spot. There should be a lot of competition for 1 spot, imo they should get a FA, restructure both Wilfork and Kelly, and draft a DT early for a 4 man rotation to keep them all fresh. That would leave 1 to 2 slots open for Grissom, Armstead, Siliga, Jones, and Vellano to compete for.

    Forston - I think won't make it past camp. He just hasn't shown enough to keep around

    Harrison - as I said Harrisons the most interesting. He has great size and speed but his route running is horrible and needs work on his hands. However, given or inability to stretch the field and issues in the RZ he will be in competition with Thompkins for that 5th WR role imo and Harrison might surprise us.

    Moe - Though comparisons to Edelman, Welker, Amendola have been made he really is to prototypical UDFA slot guy. He won't blow you away in any catagory and is going to have a real hard time cracking this roster. Really it might boil down to Moe and Boyce for Edelmans spot and I just don't know if Moe can pull it off. I'm thinking they PS him for a year until they can get out from under Amendola's contract and once they see what Boyce and Dobson are.

    McGuffie - I don't think has a shot and wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the first to be cut before Aug.

    Cave - might need more work than to just keep Wendell on the team and have Cave get another year in PS. Has some potential but hasn't shown enough to make the roster

     

    All in all I wouldn't expect much if anything from any of these guys. Maybe 2 of these guys could make the roster next year as 3rd stringers with maybe 1 of those guys being a 2nd stringer depending on the rest of the offseason moves. He have a lot of holes to fill and tons of depth needed but I'm not seeing how most of these guys are going to add a lot of value compare to other guys they could get potentially in this years draft in the mid to late rounds.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Am as big draft nut as anyone but also like breaking down the roster once the season is done.  There some very interesting guys on the roster, understanding impact and how much talent they are helps in draft talks.  This will be guys on IR or PS, not on active roster in 2013.

    So there were some Rookies and other players who are very intreguing coming into 2014.  Here's the list. ( height weight based on Patriots.com)

    Armond Amstead (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 IR) I'm starting with the best known guy, 2009 and 2010 played full seasons at USC both at DE and DT.  2011 he suffered the chest pains which sidelined him, he was cleared but 2012 but SC didn't take him back he went to play in Canada.  2013 he suffered an "infection?" so a year removed from it, he should be back healthy.

    What is he?  He's an interior pass rusher, quickness multiple moves to get penetration and the QB.  Had he not had the injury at SC could had been a late 2nd to 4th round pick. 

    Corey Grissom (R) 6'2" 316lbs DT (2013 IR)Staying with DT, now this is a kid I think could had helped last season had he not landed on IR.  He's a space eater who plugs up the middle against the run.  Some quickness but not catching anyone from behind.  Has had injury history, major part he went undrafted.  He's a mid round talent.

    Marcus Forston (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 PS) Now to me this is a head scratcher, those who followed Forston coming out knew there were question marks all over him but he was a talented DT.  I thought first year would be a red shirt, most thought he came out a year too early.  So in 2013 I thought he would make a jump and be solid, that never happened so this one is hard for me.  Not sure why once one of the most recruited high school DTs that played at a high level in college is not getting it.  If he gets it, he could be at minimum a solid starter.  This is a guy with above average movement skills for his size, bench pressed 35 times at 225lbs but leverage is not sound so that strength doesn't is not translating to the field.

    Mark Harrison (R) 6'3" 230lbs WR (yes lol WR) (2013 Non-Football Injury) If there's a player I can get excited about just in pure God given ability this is it.  Since 2005 4 players have ran a sub 4.50 had a 37" vert and a 10'.5" broad jump, Calvin Johnson, Jonathan Balwin, Matt Jones and Mark Harrison.  Per NFL.com combine results, here are the underwear olympics results for Harrison: 4.46 40, 17 reps 225lbs, 38.5 vert, 10.75 broad, 6.99 3 cone.

    Why did he go undrafted, he broke his foot while warming up on his proday.  He couldn't workout for teams, he was only considered a mid round selection before the foot injury.  He has all the tools but has been inconsistant.  At times looks like tarzan plays like Jane.  Although he went undrafted he had a good number of teams calling.  Signed with the Bears failed physical then joined NE.  

    T.J. Moe (R) 6'0" 200lbs WR (2013 IR) This is a pure slot receiver with some ability to play outside but his better traits are his suddenness and hands.  Runs good routes makes his money, well let me do the comparison.  His a very poor man's WW, his 40 time resembles WW, tough kid who makes his money running the routes the Pats make their money on.  He had a torn achilies so what's his status for 2014 unknown.  Based on him as a player I wouldn't bet against him, will he be the next unknown WR to have a 100 catch season?  Was a high school QB who transitioned to WR in college.  My front runner to compete for Edelman's spot if he leaves and Moe is fully recovered from the injury.  Willing to block or do what's asked of him.  Strength (26 reps 225) does translate to the field, at mizzu has been kept in as a blocker.

    Sam McGuffie (R) 5'10" 200lbs WR/RB (2013 PS) Out of these guys he is the one that has had the bigger of injury history only because it has been concussions.  Quick, fast, sudden and good hands.  He has the tools but those multiple concussions are a major concern IMO.  

    Braxton Cave (R) 6'3" 305lbs OC (2013 PS) IMO too similar to wendell, tough undersized kid that is smart and hard working but limited because of their athletisism.  Could be a serviceble backup but would like to see Pats get a stud OC.

    There are others that were on IR or PS but these players are ones I consider to keep Patriots from drafting a player because of what's already on the roster.  Wish I had the medical report on each but with a year to recover for most, are they 100% now? Big question.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Great Post.  I mentioned a few of these guys in a post on the Salary Cap thread.  In all reality, maybe only 1-2 of these guys will even make the team, but I do agree that there is some pretty under-the-radar potential here.  Like most of you, I like Harrison the best of all these guys.  I really do feel that he will make the 53 man roster this year, and could become a real impact WR for us.

    Moe is a guy who could make the cut if Edelman walks.  I truly beleive that the slot WR in our offense is a position where a lot of players could come in and excell.  I do think it is a "system" thing here.  Wes was really good, but I don't think he was really that special as an athlete.  I think Edelman is actually better.  As long as a guy can understand the offense, run quick, decisive routes, and catch the ball, I think he can catch 100+ passes in the slot here.  Maybe Moe can do that.

    I like Grissom too.  Probably no more than a 4th or 5th DT, but he could make the team and suprise some people.

    Lastly, Cave is the other guy, along with Harrison, who I think has a really good shot to make the team, and possibly even work his way into a starting Center role.  I'd like to see Wendell re-signed if the money is right, but if he wants too much then let him walk.  I think that NE used last year as a "red-shirt year" for Cave, and I wouldn't be suprised if they at least gave him a chance to compete for the starting role at Center.

    Again, great post.  We all get wrapped up in Free Agency and the Draft, but evaluating the players that you already have is also part of the equation.  Most years, these guys are kind of afterthoughts, but I think a few of these guys could make the team and contribute this year.  We will see...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To me Harrison is the most intriguing. As for the others:

    Armstead - it wasn't just one injury but a bunch of off and on injures in college. He didn't have a single healthy season. He was a blue chip coming out of high school but never fully lived up to it. Yes he has late 2nd - 3rd talent upside but that inconsistency knocks him down a round and when you add in his constant track of injures you can see why he went undrafted and why the Pats got him for such a great future deal last year, because the vast majority of teams didn't want him. At this point he's a camp body (as I called him last year) and needs to earn a spot, nothing else. Don't think you can call him an extra pick at all more like an UDFA trying to earn his spot at this point.

    Grissom - Similar injury history as Armstead and just like Armstead to me he's a camp body and competition for a DT spot. There should be a lot of competition for 1 spot, imo they should get a FA, restructure both Wilfork and Kelly, and draft a DT early for a 4 man rotation to keep them all fresh. That would leave 1 to 2 slots open for Grissom, Armstead, Siliga, Jones, and Vellano to compete for.

    Forston - I think won't make it past camp. He just hasn't shown enough to keep around

    Harrison - as I said Harrisons the most interesting. He has great size and speed but his route running is horrible and needs work on his hands. However, given or inability to stretch the field and issues in the RZ he will be in competition with Thompkins for that 5th WR role imo and Harrison might surprise us.

    Moe - Though comparisons to Edelman, Welker, Amendola have been made he really is to prototypical UDFA slot guy. He won't blow you away in any catagory and is going to have a real hard time cracking this roster. Really it might boil down to Moe and Boyce for Edelmans spot and I just don't know if Moe can pull it off. I'm thinking they PS him for a year until they can get out from under Amendola's contract and once they see what Boyce and Dobson are.

    McGuffie - I don't think has a shot and wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the first to be cut before Aug.

    Cave - might need more work than to just keep Wendell on the team and have Cave get another year in PS. Has some potential but hasn't shown enough to make the roster

     

    All in all I wouldn't expect much if anything from any of these guys. Maybe 2 of these guys could make the roster next year as 3rd stringers with maybe 1 of those guys being a 2nd stringer depending on the rest of the offseason moves. He have a lot of holes to fill and tons of depth needed but I'm not seeing how most of these guys are going to add a lot of value compare to other guys they could get potentially in this years draft in the mid to late rounds.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't know to me the big question on most is are they healthy now.  Had they been coming out most would had been drafted (those with injuries)

    So I say Armstead, Moe (if either Edelman or Amandola are gone), Harrison has had a year to learn the playbook so I say he does, and Grissom is the one I think will surprise everyone. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    To me Harrison is the most intriguing. As for the others:

    Armstead - it wasn't just one injury but a bunch of off and on injures in college. He didn't have a single healthy season. He was a blue chip coming out of high school but never fully lived up to it. Yes he has late 2nd - 3rd talent upside but that inconsistency knocks him down a round and when you add in his constant track of injures you can see why he went undrafted and why the Pats got him for such a great future deal last year, because the vast majority of teams didn't want him. At this point he's a camp body (as I called him last year) and needs to earn a spot, nothing else. Don't think you can call him an extra pick at all more like an UDFA trying to earn his spot at this point.

    Grissom - Similar injury history as Armstead and just like Armstead to me he's a camp body and competition for a DT spot. There should be a lot of competition for 1 spot, imo they should get a FA, restructure both Wilfork and Kelly, and draft a DT early for a 4 man rotation to keep them all fresh. That would leave 1 to 2 slots open for Grissom, Armstead, Siliga, Jones, and Vellano to compete for.

    Forston - I think won't make it past camp. He just hasn't shown enough to keep around

    Harrison - as I said Harrisons the most interesting. He has great size and speed but his route running is horrible and needs work on his hands. However, given or inability to stretch the field and issues in the RZ he will be in competition with Thompkins for that 5th WR role imo and Harrison might surprise us.

    Moe - Though comparisons to Edelman, Welker, Amendola have been made he really is to prototypical UDFA slot guy. He won't blow you away in any catagory and is going to have a real hard time cracking this roster. Really it might boil down to Moe and Boyce for Edelmans spot and I just don't know if Moe can pull it off. I'm thinking they PS him for a year until they can get out from under Amendola's contract and once they see what Boyce and Dobson are.

    McGuffie - I don't think has a shot and wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the first to be cut before Aug.

    Cave - might need more work than to just keep Wendell on the team and have Cave get another year in PS. Has some potential but hasn't shown enough to make the roster

     

    All in all I wouldn't expect much if anything from any of these guys. Maybe 2 of these guys could make the roster next year as 3rd stringers with maybe 1 of those guys being a 2nd stringer depending on the rest of the offseason moves. He have a lot of holes to fill and tons of depth needed but I'm not seeing how most of these guys are going to add a lot of value compare to other guys they could get potentially in this years draft in the mid to late rounds.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree. Harrison for me is the most intriguing because of his size and athleticism. Rare combos as Pats7393 points out. My curiosity with Harison is both as an outside WR and RZ threat, but even more curious to see if he could add 15lbs or and be that move TE that Hern was. To me he is right on the cusp of being a big WR or small TE. Any thoughts on this Guys?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_1807930. Show user_1807930's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Am as big draft nut as anyone but also like breaking down the roster once the season is done.  There some very interesting guys on the roster, understanding impact and how much talent they are helps in draft talks.  This will be guys on IR or PS, not on active roster in 2013.

    So there were some Rookies and other players who are very intreguing coming into 2014.  Here's the list. ( height weight based on Patriots.com)

    Armond Amstead (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 IR) I'm starting with the best known guy, 2009 and 2010 played full seasons at USC both at DE and DT.  2011 he suffered the chest pains which sidelined him, he was cleared but 2012 but SC didn't take him back he went to play in Canada.  2013 he suffered an "infection?" so a year removed from it, he should be back healthy.

    What is he?  He's an interior pass rusher, quickness multiple moves to get penetration and the QB.  Had he not had the injury at SC could had been a late 2nd to 4th round pick. 

    Corey Grissom (R) 6'2" 316lbs DT (2013 IR)Staying with DT, now this is a kid I think could had helped last season had he not landed on IR.  He's a space eater who plugs up the middle against the run.  Some quickness but not catching anyone from behind.  Has had injury history, major part he went undrafted.  He's a mid round talent.

    Marcus Forston (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 PS) Now to me this is a head scratcher, those who followed Forston coming out knew there were question marks all over him but he was a talented DT.  I thought first year would be a red shirt, most thought he came out a year too early.  So in 2013 I thought he would make a jump and be solid, that never happened so this one is hard for me.  Not sure why once one of the most recruited high school DTs that played at a high level in college is not getting it.  If he gets it, he could be at minimum a solid starter.  This is a guy with above average movement skills for his size, bench pressed 35 times at 225lbs but leverage is not sound so that strength doesn't is not translating to the field.

    Mark Harrison (R) 6'3" 230lbs WR (yes lol WR) (2013 Non-Football Injury) If there's a player I can get excited about just in pure God given ability this is it.  Since 2005 4 players have ran a sub 4.50 had a 37" vert and a 10'.5" broad jump, Calvin Johnson, Jonathan Balwin, Matt Jones and Mark Harrison.  Per NFL.com combine results, here are the underwear olympics results for Harrison: 4.46 40, 17 reps 225lbs, 38.5 vert, 10.75 broad, 6.99 3 cone.

    Why did he go undrafted, he broke his foot while warming up on his proday.  He couldn't workout for teams, he was only considered a mid round selection before the foot injury.  He has all the tools but has been inconsistant.  At times looks like tarzan plays like Jane.  Although he went undrafted he had a good number of teams calling.  Signed with the Bears failed physical then joined NE.  

    T.J. Moe (R) 6'0" 200lbs WR (2013 IR) This is a pure slot receiver with some ability to play outside but his better traits are his suddenness and hands.  Runs good routes makes his money, well let me do the comparison.  His a very poor man's WW, his 40 time resembles WW, tough kid who makes his money running the routes the Pats make their money on.  He had a torn achilies so what's his status for 2014 unknown.  Based on him as a player I wouldn't bet against him, will he be the next unknown WR to have a 100 catch season?  Was a high school QB who transitioned to WR in college.  My front runner to compete for Edelman's spot if he leaves and Moe is fully recovered from the injury.  Willing to block or do what's asked of him.  Strength (26 reps 225) does translate to the field, at mizzu has been kept in as a blocker.

    Sam McGuffie (R) 5'10" 200lbs WR/RB (2013 PS) Out of these guys he is the one that has had the bigger of injury history only because it has been concussions.  Quick, fast, sudden and good hands.  He has the tools but those multiple concussions are a major concern IMO.  

    Braxton Cave (R) 6'3" 305lbs OC (2013 PS) IMO too similar to wendell, tough undersized kid that is smart and hard working but limited because of their athletisism.  Could be a serviceble backup but would like to see Pats get a stud OC.

    There are others that were on IR or PS but these players are ones I consider to keep Patriots from drafting a player because of what's already on the roster.  Wish I had the medical report on each but with a year to recover for most, are they 100% now? Big question.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I was hoping that someone would report on this, Thank You. Since no good deed goes unpunished, are you going to provide a report on all of the other teams PS players? Particularly, cornorback, safety, center/gaurd.

    An aggressive front office might be able to cherry pick some PS talent in areas of need.

    Great contribution even without the other teams information.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I don't know to me the big question on most is are they healthy now.  Had they been coming out most would had been drafted (those with injuries)

    So I say Armstead, Moe (if either Edelman or Amandola are gone), Harrison has had a year to learn the playbook so I say he does, and Grissom is the one I think will surprise everyone. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the thing is most of them don't have a single injury but a history of injures. So, if I were a gambling man and I have a player who gets injured every year I'd put money on him getting injured again not that he'd stay healthy and that's how most teams feel. Hence why they went undrafted when on talent alone they should have gone before the 6th

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I don't know to me the big question on most is are they healthy now.  Had they been coming out most would had been drafted (those with injuries)

    So I say Armstead, Moe (if either Edelman or Amandola are gone), Harrison has had a year to learn the playbook so I say he does, and Grissom is the one I think will surprise everyone. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the thing is most of them don't have a single injury but a history of injures. So, if I were a gambling man and I have a player who gets injured every year I'd put money on him getting injured again not that he'd stay healthy and that's how most teams feel. Hence why they went undrafted when on talent alone they should have gone before the 6th

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with that, that's why I said I would love to know what the medical on these guys is now.  Like Armstead, 2009 and 2010 played full seasons, 2011 is when problems started and then last year was an infection per reports.  That one I put on one of those things.

    These are not UDFA because lack of talent, but I see the point.  Not saying they don't draft base on needs just there are some options on the roster which might have a difference on how BB sees needs.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree. Harrison for me is the most intriguing because of his size and athleticism. Rare combos as Pats7393 points out. My curiosity with Harison is both as an outside WR and RZ threat, but even more curious to see if he could add 15lbs or and be that move TE that Hern was. To me he is right on the cusp of being a big WR or small TE. Any thoughts on this Guys?

    [/QUOTE]

    That's interesting, putting that much good weight is tough depending on the guy but he's a strong kid at 231 can he take on blocks think so.  Don't think he would slow down much but even if he's a 4.60 guy at 245 lets say that's a big miss match much like AH was.  

    I like it big question is the blocking but he would IMO be more a chip block not have to stay in and block unless is GL and then you take him out and bring in a big ugly package.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them


    I saw quite a bit of zfortson and Grissom in the summer, and they were clearly over matched. I thought it spoke volumes that Jones and Vellano were playing, and playing poorly, but Fortson couldnt sniff the field. Even when Jones and Vellano were clearly gassed for the season, the team brought in Soap (clearly washed up in Philly) and Siliga, not Fortson or Grissom

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tg19pats. Show tg19pats's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    Love these discussions, great information about players I know little about. Love the measureables of Harrison and am hoping he can help. As for the rest let us see what they can do if healthy. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    Nice work, Pats7393.  Lot of time and effort there.


    Harrison, Moe and, yes, Armstead I believe have the most potential to contribute.  After all of the discussions, pro and con, about Armstead I'd just like to see him in even a preseason game just so we can get a sense of what the hell we've been talking about.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them


    alot of hype on Armstead..but a big letdown so far.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to Iceman4's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    alot of hype on Armstead..but a big letdown so far.

    [/QUOTE]


    To be sure.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Am as big draft nut as anyone but also like breaking down the roster once the season is done.  There some very interesting guys on the roster, understanding impact and how much talent they are helps in draft talks.  This will be guys on IR or PS, not on active roster in 2013.

    So there were some Rookies and other players who are very intreguing coming into 2014.  Here's the list. ( height weight based on Patriots.com)  

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Armond Amstead (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 IR)

    I see you have Armond listed at 6'3" but he is actually 6'5," so he would be playing that tall end position that Seymour formerly played.  You're running a 3/4 you want big, tall trees clogging throwing lanes with a rock in between them.  I put him in the same category I had Cannon in last year, you sometimes have to wait for better talent even if there is a possibility they may not make it.  

    I can't speak to his injury history because of what he did in Canada, he played like a professional for a season, like a man possessed and played every role along the D line, he was the creme of the crop of Canadian players, and every year Canada produces one good player.  He got an infection from surgery, it happens.  Injuries happen in a collision sport, sometimes off the field even.  Both he and Adrian Wilson could come back to be productive players for us this year, maybe not, nobody can see the future.  But it is better to possess talent with the possibility of tapping it, then never having it at all.  

    On that note...

    Corey Grissom (R) 6'2" 316lbs DT (2013 IR)

    Marcus Forston (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 PS)

    Neither of these two has shown enough to be more than practice squad and stop gap players.  Fortson lacks lower body strength and/or has leverage issues, Grissom has no push at all and yet seemingly possesses the mass to play the nose.  We'd be better off knowing their squat and dead lift strength over their bench press reps.  My guess is not enough...

    Mark Harrison (R) 6'3" 230lbs WR (yes lol WR) (2013 Non-Football Injury)

    T.J. Moe (R) 6'0" 200lbs WR (2013 IR)

    These two are potential bright spots, Moe is a proven college player (health provided) and would great in the slot with Brady.  Harrison has all the physical tools but is probably the bigger question mark if TJ's Achilles heals.  See how I did that<

    I'm actually excited at the prospect of these three rookie free agents, BB is usually good for one or more of these.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    http://www.patriots.com/team/roster/Armond-Armstead/04fcd514-de4c-4c43-af97-4f7a08d032be

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...

    Armond Amstead (1) 6'3" 305lbs DT (2013 IR)

    I see you have Armond listed at 6'3" but he is actually 6'5," so he would be playing that tall end position that Seymour formerly played.  You're running a 3/4 you want big, tall trees clogging throwing lanes with a rock in between them.  I put him in the same category I had Cannon in last year, you sometimes have to wait for better talent even if there is a possibility they may not make it.  

    I can't speak to his injury history because of what he did in Canada, he played like a professional for a season, like a man possessed and played every role along the D line, he was the creme of the crop of Canadian players, and every year Canada produces one good player.  He got an infection from surgery, it happens.  Injuries happen in a collision sport, sometimes off the field even.  Both he and Adrian Wilson could come back to be productive players for us this year, maybe not, nobody can see the future.  But it is better to possess talent with the possibility of tapping it, then never having it at all.  

    ...

    [/QUOTE]


    Am really hoping he turns out better than Vellano. The Pats needs that. Even if they do, I would still want the team to draft at least one DT.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    Some other possible contributors on the roster. If NE feels these players can contribute in the coming season they may shift their attention to other needs in the draft and FA.


    Josh Kline, 6'3" 310, OG - Kent State, played in a few games and played well.  He held his own with Ngata from Baltimore. Agressive and nasty.  Could compete as a starter.

    Markus Zusevics 6'5" 300, OT - was injured the last two years (torn pec and leg?), probably a "prove it" year healthwise. Iowa product with good fundamentals, was UDFA after injury but was rated higher. May have versatility to move inside.

    NFL ready body, he has already added over 75 pounds to his frame since his freshman year of college... One of most consistent natural benders in the draft... Good kick slide with exceptional lateral movement skills... Plays with good balance; rarely lunges and rarely gets caught leaning and falling off blocks... Light on his feet, shows quickness and agility in open space... Gets to the second level quickly; also has the agility to cover up quicker defenders... Has very good technique with his hand placement, regularly gets his hands inside on the defender first... Shows a strong punch, has the ability to knock defenders back... Flashes the strength to create movement in the run game... Has good awareness with blitz pick up, handles stunts very well... Showed a good work ethic to add a substantial amount of weight and develop his body... Developed his technique with a top offensive line program in Iowa... Takes coaching very well and development of his technique should continue at the next level. http://www.sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/ot/markus-zusevics/#ixzz2v8LeHAAt
     

    Chris Barker, 6'3", 305, OG - he was on the 53 man roster last year and kept on the roster.  NE must think he will be ready to contribute sooner rather than later. (Nevada product)

    Jordan Devey, 6'7", 317, OT - developmental prospect (Memphis)

    Reggie Dunn, 5'9", 178, WR - recorded a 4.22 40 on his pro day with a 6.82 3C.  Could  be a Randall Cobb or Percy Harvin type. Explosive kick returner, decent receiver had more impact returning kicks. (Utah)

    Elvis Fisher, 6'5" 300, OT - Missouri - often injured not sure if he can meet the rigors of an NFL Linemen

    Jonas Gray, 5'10, 225, RB - ND, strong runner, played ST in college, medical on both knees, 31 lifts on BP at pro day. Strong between the tackles, good cuts laterally and good short area quickness. Never a featured back and had fumbling issues.

    Others on the roster, RJ Mattes- OT, Quentin Hines- RB, Brice Schwab-OT, Greg Orton-WR, Taylor Reed-MLB

    ...... then again they could all be camp fodder.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Getting to know the roster unknowns and those with ???s all over them

    Kline stays, he's made his bones by filling in and playing well against NFL competition during real games...

    It's make or break for  Zusevics...his injury history held him down but it sounds like he's maxed out on useful size....he either uses the technique he learned at Iowa and from Dante Scarnecchia or he's headed to the arena league...

    Armstead came with high hopes and the team didn't do him any favors with what they let the press know about him....if the infection is in his heart, or was, that's pretty serious...have to hope it's gone and won't come back...if it does, it's life threatening, let alone keeping him from playing....hope he can contribute...if healthy and ready there's no reason to expect he can't be a member of the regular rotation, lord knows it's out most serious position of need.

    (Poke Chop)Grissom and Fortson are both camp cannon fodder at this point...Grissom lacks athleticism and Fortson seems to lack the talent to stick...don't forget, he was let go by us before he came back....he's been an enigma since getting to U of Miami...as for Grissom, it's too easy today to find bigger bodies for the same $$ if you're looking for anchors or very large paperweights.

    Moe might make the team if he's fully recovered because I doubt we'll make a big attempt to resign Edleman and he's been to a camp before so he knows what it's all about now. His rep coming in was that he could catch, hang tough over the middle and with blocking skills, was quick but not too fast, and was coachable and a team player...sounds like A Pats slot receiver.

    Harrison is a huge question mark...he has all the paper facts and figures, size, speed, size, size...but we've drafted many, many receivers that also were workout warriors who couldn't play....three questions...

    1- did he finish the last year at Rutgers or did he leave the team?

    2- is his injury situation all set?...

    3- sounds stupid, but can he actually catch the ball?

     
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