Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsareNumberone. Show PatsareNumberone's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!! : It might be better to simply rely on talent comparisons. Do you think the Colts or the Patriots have more talent on Defense? Strange - the people who recognize that the defense is going to be sub-par are getting riped in this thread.  Yet, the people who think that Bill Bellicheck will create magic "schemes" to overcome poor talent are somehow congratulating themselves as "true fans" On one hand we have people who evaluate the actual TALENT on the team and say - "eez, it's gonna be a long year with this defense"  - these people are attacked. On the other hand we have people who ignore talent and say goofy things like "In Bill we trust" and "we will have magic schemes"  are somehow true fans? Nope.  If you ignore talent and evidence and rely on magic sayings and incantations - YOU are the pink hat. In this case all the chest beating I-am-a-true-fan-because-I-believe-in-magic-schemes fans are the pink hats. 
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    And you're worse than all of the people you complain about. You chime in about once a month here with a typical useless and judgmental comment that means nothing to anyone but you, speaking of self-serving. Give your self a pat on the back moron. You still know nothing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!! : It might be better to simply rely on talent comparisons. Do you think the Colts or the Patriots have more talent on Defense? Strange - the people who recognize that the defense is going to be sub-par are getting riped in this thread.  Yet, the people who think that Bill Bellicheck will create magic "schemes" to overcome poor talent are somehow congratulating themselves as "true fans" On one hand we have people who evaluate the actual TALENT on the team and say - "eez, it's gonna be a long year with this defense"  - these people are attacked. On the other hand we have people who ignore talent and say goofy things like "In Bill we trust" and "we will have magic schemes"  are somehow true fans? Nope.  If you ignore talent and evidence and rely on magic sayings and incantations - YOU are the pink hat. In this case all the chest beating I-am-a-true-fan-because-I-believe-in-magic-schemes fans are the pink hats. 
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    I'll say yes the Colts have more talent on D than the Pats. Fact is the Colts D has more proven players than what the Pats have right now. Pats have gone from a veteran, slower defense who very rarely got burned, to a young faster defense who will make plenty of mistakes. However in time the Pats will develop that talent and the players will cut down on the mistakes. It's going to take time, and this year anything really goes. With playing time find out who's going to be a core player on D, find other core players next offseason draft/free agency and build a good defense. This could take a few years.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    Preseason people.  The team isn't as bad as some of you think.  BTW here's a look at the numbers for some perspective.

    New England- points scored per game   26.75, Points against 22.25. diff +4.5
    New York Jets- points scored per game 14.25, Points against 16.75. diff -2.5

    If that were last season the Pats would be 7th in offense and 13th in defense and probably be a playoff caliber team.  But this is the preseason so you can't read too much into anything.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!! : I'll say yes the Colts have more talent on D than the Pats. Fact is the Colts D has more proven players than what the Pats have right now. Pats have gone from a veteran, slower defense who very rarely got burned, to a young faster defense who will make plenty of mistakes. However in time the Pats will develop that talent and the players will cut down on the mistakes. It's going to take time, and this year anything really goes. With playing time find out who's going to be a core player on D, find other core players next offseason draft/free agency and build a good defense. This could take a few years.
    Posted by Wizardsjag[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this - you have it right.

    The fact is - this season - especially in the first half - the Patriots will need to simply outscore people. 

    Hopefully they can do that often enough to contend - and in the second half of the season if teh defense improves they will be much more competitive.  I don't expect that it will be a great defense at any time this season.  But a great offense coupled with an improving defense could be enough to win the division and make noise in the playoffs.

    That notwithstanding, I think it is safe to say the defense will not be very good in games 1 - 5.  Hopefully they get to be an average defense in weeks 11- 16.

    Not sure why there are so many emotional people on this board who can't accept that reality.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!! : If you are saying the D stinks after 4 preseason games, you are a whingy pinkhat.  And no I don't think BB has all the answers. 
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    First of all, why are you limting the evidence to 4 presseason games?  Did you not watch last REGULAR season?

    Two, you can look at the TALENT leve to enlighten your evaluation. Who is relying solely on preseason to evaluate the defense?   

    Three, there isn't much functional difference betwen saying "our D stinks and it will be a long year"  and "our D is young, untested, and will makes tons of mistakes all year" - so yes, you are the pot and the original poster is the kettle.

    I happen to think the defense is not very good.  It will be poor early in the season.  The offense will have to carry the team.  best you can hope for is an average NFL defense near the end of the year.



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!! : First of all, why are you limting the evidence to 4 presseason games?  Did you not watch last REGULAR season? Two, you can look at the TALENT leve to enlighten your evaluation. Who is relying solely on preseason to evaluate the defense?    Three, there isn't much functional difference betwen saying "our D stinks and it will be a long year"  and "our D is young, untested, and will makes tons of mistakes all year" - so yes, you are the pot and the original poster is the kettle. I happen to think the defense is not very good.  It will be poor early in the season.  The offense will have to carry the team.  best you can hope for is an average NFL defense near the end of the year.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    Have you not noticed the turnover on this defense from last year?  And you think last year and 4 preseason games is the barometer for the upcoming season?  You haven't seen McCourty and Spikes and think that they could be better after 8 games?  What about Chung?  Butler?  Brace looks like he could actually help too.  If you want to go out on a limb and say they stink, go ahead, but don't twist my words to make your false point, because you're obviously missing mine.  They didn't stink last year, they won't stink this year, and the overall talent is probably more athletic. 

    And again, who said it would be a long year?  Not me.  All I said was there would be growing pains.  The original poster said this defense stinks, which is about as knee jerk as you can get, and the criticism seems to be based on preseason games.  I said all along the young guys will make mistakes, I didn't say they would stink, but if that's your translation of my post, then so be it.  On some days their athleticism may win them some games, on other days, they will give up big plays.  Your argument is semantics, my argument is that young guys will take time to come along.  You completely miss the point, and I don't think you care to admit it.    

    If you think I'm saying the Pats D will stink, then you cannot read.  I am aware that you post on all of these message boards and you tend to be negative.  No need to try to take reasonable comments and use them to support your overall negative world view.  Again, I suggest you put me on ignore, because you obviously don't agree with me or think that my points are valid.  So why argue here?  Move on.          

       
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!! : LOL!  anyone who judges how a team is going to be based on the vanilla plays and back ups playing in the preseason is not very smart. Please try again....when you get an ounce of knowledge. I am surprised that you didn't say that our O-stinks....same difference.
    Posted by m1023us[/QUOTE]
    would you please wake up and understand that in spite of vanilla plays, the DL was being beaten one on one. It does not matter what defense you are playing if you do not beat your man at the point of attack. The back up OL was non existant. Do you expect Neal, Koppen and Light to play all 16 games?
    Wake up on these preseason games. More than 22 players will get snaps on this team. They will need a core 45 players that can step up when needed. The holes on the OL, DL, OLB and DB are enormous.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeachRooster. Show BeachRooster's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    Write this down:  this Defense will dominate.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Qcubed. Show Qcubed's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    You are absolutely delusional if you think the defense will dominate.  Being a cheerleader does not make you a better fan either. 

    If you have been paying attention to the games or look at who the starting defense is, it should be obvious that it is a lackluster group.  Hopefully, they will be serviceable enough to let the offense win some games, but they are worse unit than last year which was not very good to begin with.  So far, the D line is marginal, the LBs are serviceable, the safeties are good and the corners are too young and inexperienced.  I am hoping that BB will find a veteran or two that can be added the roster and over-perform.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    Anyone judging the talent level of the D on THIS years team is way off base. NOBODY actually KNOWs the talent level of this years team since they haven't played a real game yet. Now if you want to compare PROVEN talent levels then yes, looking at last years team in comparison to others is somewhat relevant though not much as we don't know if one or more of the veterans has already hit the wall and is starting to decline. And I mean veterans on any team you would like to compare the Pats to. You just don't know their talent level this year.

    If you couldn't tell I am more of a glass half full person and though there are going to be rough spots along the way for the D this year, I think it will be better than last year which means it will probably be a top ten D in the one stat that matters most. To me, that is far from stinking. I know a lot of you won't agree with me but I see the defensive back field as having a lot more talent than last year. I see the line backers as a whole, having more talent than last year. I see the D-line as maybe losing a little from last year but probably not since we have the same guys playing this year as played most of last year. We even have a far superior D-Coordinator when compared to last year. Call me a koolaid drinker if you want (I actually prefer single malt scotch but have been known to drink a little koolaid on a hot day in the summer) but this years D has a hell of a lot more potential than last years D ever dreamed of. 

    So if you want to listen to a Dallas fan (Breer) or a baseball expert (Gasper) try to talk about the Pats in a knowledgeable way, go ahead. If you want, delude your self into thinking they have inside info and have any more of a clue than Gris or even my pet dog. They don't, all they have is opinions just like the rest of us and none of them really carries any more weight than any other "reader of sports pages".

    One last thing I think some of you doom and gloomers should think about. The Pats have never been a team built for stats. Also like BB says "Nothing from last years carries through to this year. This is a new year and a new team". Ok so it was two, shoot me.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

     If I had a nickel for every team that played well in the pre-season but stunk the rest of the year.....

     well I'd have a lot of @#$%^ nickels
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Maybe the bandwagon will lighten up at the end of the season so real Pats fans can have discussions on this forum.
    Posted by Wizardsjag[/QUOTE]

    yeah, Tcal's last post with the pink Patriots ball cap says it best. alot of these doom and gloom fans need to line up at the ladies restroom
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    Perhaps our defense isn't that good, but it was rounding into shape with the drafting of Spikes and McCourty.  What hurts is the loss of Warren.  Methinks that they likely will be trolling the wires for a pick up or two now that they have cut Lewis.  I'm uncertain about Brace .... but he ws too good at BC to have fallen off the map like that.  Smerlas thought he was hurt last year....maybe he was. 

    I'd like to see them grab a DL vet that gets cut in the next few days....

    Offense is loaded.  Secondary will be raw and further exposed without a pass rush.  Who knows. 

    Maybe the Jets will eat too many cheeseburgers?  Anyone see that?  Whatwould BB have done....the fact that even pulled that on Ryan's watch makes me now question his leadership.  Can you imagine anyone pulling that cr@p on a Parcells, BB or Coughlin?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Be careful or someone may call you an idiot.
    Posted by tartarus12[/QUOTE]

    You are an idiot.  I didn't CALL you that, I IDENTIFIED you as that.  Big difference.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Say what you must but I consider myself a knowledgable and diehard fan whom is realistic.
    Posted by JMichalski12[/QUOTE]

    What YOU consider YOURSELF is up to you.  You take it public, and then others will have the right to judge.  You miss some important points, I think.  I agree it's not looking great right now, but ALL YEAR?  Most of what I didn't like is about playing time to get guys making the correct first step.  That and the push up front needs something.  I'm not sure if real scheme fixes that or not.  We need to get some pressure.  Coverage looks good to me.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JMichalski12. Show JMichalski12's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    So if its only the preseason why did they play the starters in the final preseason game? CAUSE WE ARE NOT READY FOR THE SEASON ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BALL!
    Its not being fairweather its being realistic. And another thing, how is evrybody banking on Cunningham, he has NEVER played a down in the NFL and every homer on this board thinks he is gonna be the next Reggie White....Get a clue and thats not aimed at everyone, you know who you are......
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertigho. Show vertigho's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Not only does the Defense stink but the pats WRers look like another teams practice squad,the Oline with Mankins was weak at best and it's only a matter of time until somebody starts yelping about how Brady spent the WHOLE off season in LA rather then in Mass. Personally as a Jets fan witnessing the pats franchise just disinegrate right before my very eyes makes me giddy.
    Posted by MasterHess-[/QUOTE]

    Please leave. Here's a perfectly good website for you and your Green friends

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JMichalski12. Show JMichalski12's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    again, this isnt aimed at everyone but PATSARENUMBERONE, you have way too much time on your hands. Yea I chime in once a month because I actually have a life. I come on these boards to see the differences in opinion both positive and negative to gage the feel of Pats fans and to see what others think. Its a board where you cant state an opinion and if you dont like what i have to say then ignore me....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TampaPete. Show TampaPete's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    Admittedly, the D has looked weak at times, but considering it was 5th in points allowed last year while playing 4 of the top nine highest scoring teams in the league, it hardly stinks.  Before they lost Bodden and Warren, I would have said it was much improved on paper over last year.

    Furthermore, it gave up about a field goal more per game than our best defenses of the Belichick era, but even though it was 5th in points allowed, everbody said it stunk last year, because it didn't make the key stops that Pats fans have become accustomed to seeing with the game on the line. 

    Talentwise I think they are improved.  G. Warren for a slowed down T.Warren is probably a wash so the D line is about the same.  Burgess instead of an unmotivated Thomas and Spikes for Guyton is an upgrade for the linebackers.   Even without Bodden, taken altogether the the DBs are better with second year Butler and Chung, and McCourty.

    At any rate, it is way too early to throw in the towel with this defense.  It will improve as the year goes by. 

    By the way, they were 6th in points scored and fourth in net points last year and this year's offense will be more productive.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Not only does the Defense stink but the pats WRers look like another teams practice squad,the Oline with Mankins was weak at best and it's only a matter of time until somebody starts yelping about how Brady spent the WHOLE off season in LA rather then in Mass. Personally as a Jets fan witnessing the pats franchise just disinegrate right before my very eyes makes me giddy.
    Posted by MasterHess-[/QUOTE]

    You are a master at putting worms on hooks, that is about it.  You must be giddy, that offensive firepower the Jests have brought out must have dazzled your tiny, worm eaten, moth infested brain.  
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]So if its only the preseason why did they play the starters in the final preseason game? CAUSE WE ARE NOT READY FOR THE SEASON ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BALL! Its not being fairweather its being realistic. And another thing, how is evrybody banking on Cunningham, he has NEVER played a down in the NFL and every homer on this board thinks he is gonna be the next Reggie White....Get a clue and thats not aimed at everyone, you know who you are......
    Posted by JMichalski12[/QUOTE]

    We are fine on offense.  Don't get where you say not.  Giants pass rush is good, and we still scored.  The rainbow to Moss is one of those plays, rather it didn't happen, but sometimes it does.  Running game? When Brady is in there chucking it, they will have to back off, we will run fine.  Defense is better than last year, I think the DBs are better (I still wish we had Bodden) as a group and much more aggressive.  The D will firm up.  The O should be shootout capable which may be all we need till after the bye week.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    In Response to Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!:
    [QUOTE]Perhaps our defense isn't that good, but it was rounding into shape with the drafting of Spikes and McCourty.  What hurts is the loss of Warren.  Methinks that they likely will be trolling the wires for a pick up or two now that they have cut Lewis.  I'm uncertain about Brace .... but he ws too good at BC to have fallen off the map like that.  Smerlas thought he was hurt last year....maybe he was.  I'd like to see them grab a DL vet that gets cut in the next few days.... Offense is loaded.  Secondary will be raw and further exposed without a pass rush.  Who knows.  Maybe the Jets will eat too many cheeseburgers?  Anyone see that?  Whatwould BB have done....the fact that even pulled that on Ryan's watch makes me now question his leadership.  Can you imagine anyone pulling that cr@p on a Parcells, BB or Coughlin?
    Posted by schwank[/QUOTE]

    Losing two starters is tough on a defense that needed everybody.  The release of Lewis makes me think that Brace has made great strides.  I don't think he was hurt so much as he was caught off guard, or perhaps overwhelmed is a better term, by the level of play in the NFL.  He said something last year during the season that made me think of deer seeing headlights.

    The Pats will be looking for sure on anybody who can help the team out.  But they will look for deals like Harrison, Phifer and Vrabel.  I'd like to see something like that happen.

    Don't know about the cheeseburger thing.  Is it the Jets getting ready for the season? 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Gonna be a long year.....OUR D STINKS!!!!!

    I suggest to you to not watch any games this year and it will go by faster and maybe our D won't "stink" next year. Or we get through the first six weeks of the season and then we will have a better idea.
     

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