good time to appreciate draft brilliance

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    "BB's yields from 2010-2012 have been outstanding, arguably the most impressive of his career,"

    True. 

    That said it's too bad he has not been able to draft a good wide receiver to save his life (or for that matter to sign a good one in free agency). Edelman if not for being so injury prone might be one bright spot in that area. His track record drafting players in the secondary has been even worse. Fortunately now and again he does a good job in free agency along those lines. His habit of continually trading down and stockpiling picks for never never land has been especially irritating. But: I get the sense he now realizes Brady's time is getting short (and perhaps his as well). 

    Stockpiling a draft pick or two, BUT: then using them to trade for key missing pieces in the middle of the season is a highly encouraging sign. 

    BB can be stubborn so the willingness to rethink and/or fix gaps really makes him more formidable as a GM. Looks to me like the next couple of years could be great ones, what a ride it's been.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    Lots of guys formerly considered busts (not by me) have emerged this year.  Spikes, Cunningham, Edelman, Vereen.  BB's had his misses, I don't think he's had more than anyone else, in fact I would say he's had less.  2006-2008 drafts weren't good but I don't see any team nailing drafts year in and year out.

    I don't understand all the hand wringing over free agents.  Unlike draft picks, there isn't a finite number.  With picks, you get 7, you can trade them or use them but once they are gone that's it.  But with free agents there is an unlimited amount.  You sign 20, you keep the best ones, don't like those 20- go get 20 more.  Would it be better if BB didn't get any free agents? 


    Here is what will happen next year.  BB will sign 40 or so new players to get to a 90 man training camp roster.  About half those guys will be free agents.  People will get all excited and expect every free agent to make the team (though it's impossible).  Then at cut down time only the best guys make the cut.  Then threads go up "Why sign player X, only to cut him!.  BB can't find free agents." 

    I think if you look at the amount of free agent hits, the Patriots probably have more than any other team the last 10 years.  In fact, outside of this forum they are known for their ability to find talent on other teams.  It's something I've heard Colts  and Giants fans say.  Name the big free agents on those teams.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    I think you an also include THIS YEAR as a big free agent miss.

    it seems to me the criticism of the draft has not been with who has been drafted, but that the same deficiencies remain even though they have been tried to be addressed thru the draft. I don't think anyone can post on this board that over the past 5 years the draft resources that have been thrown at CB and WR have yielded any return on investment other than McCourty. This certainly does not diminish the fact that Solder, Vollmer, Ridley, Edelman etc have been good choices. 

    I think the comment on Cesario is incorrect. He is heavily involved in personnel, not administration. 

    The bottom line is that the draft and free agency is an imperfect science, and are only tools to contribute to the bottom line, wins. No one can argue the Pats have won BiG the past decade, and are unparalleled. 

    Its fun to nit pick, but it seems the nit pickers are fans just trying to express an opinion on the team. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ever since Hobbs left we have had lousy kick returners. I'd like to find somebody talented at that and maybe hunt for a more consistent field goal kicker

    [/QUOTE]


    Just wait til next year when Jeff Demps is retunring kicks for us!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ever since Hobbs left we have had lousy kick returners. I'd like to find somebody talented at that and maybe hunt for a more consistent field goal kicker

    [/QUOTE]


    Just wait til next year when Jeff Demps is retunring kicks for us!

    [/QUOTE]

    Funny, I had a conversation Thursday night with a Jets guy at the game about Demps. It seems the Jets were in on him as well. 

    It will be interesting if Ridley, Vereeen, Woody and Bolden are all on the team, if the Pats devote a roster spot to someone who only will return kicks/punts? I understand Demps is a RB, but would he see any snaps behind these 4 unless injury? Does he play any WR ( I don't think he does)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    I'll say it again and it's undeniably true...  the Pat's don't win 3 rings without the drafting of Richard Seymour.  It just doesn't happen.  So in that regards, the drafting of Seymour is of equal importance as the drafting of Brady.  

    So for those saying the only reason we win, which is stupefying in a sport with 53 man gameday rosters, is only because of Tom Brady realize that he is just a part, albeit a big part of what we do but he is still just a cog in a wheel.  

    There are no rings without Seymour, Viniteri and countless others... football isn't basketball where one player changes the outcome of your team and if Brady was the QB of the Jaguars they would still stink... period.  If Brady is drafted by a dog of a team he becomes Ryan Leaf, Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell.  

    It starts first with owner having the foresight to hire the right guy, then it's a coaches league, the coach creates a culture of winning, creates a positive atmosphere for learning and achieving, not the reverse.

    Please feel free to remove heads from a$$es...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll say it again and it's undeniably true...  the Pat's don't win 3 rings without the drafting of Richard Seymour.  It just doesn't happen.  So in that regards, the drafting of Seymour is of equal importance as the drafting of Brady.  

    So for those saying the only reason we win, which is stupefying in a sport with 53 man gameday rosters, is only because of Tom Brady realize that he is just a part, albeit a big part of what we do but he is still just a cog in a wheel.  

    There are no rings without Seymour, Viniteri and countless others... football isn't basketball where one player changes the outcome of your team and if Brady was the QB of the Jaguars they would still stink... period.  If Brady is drafted by a dog of a team he becomes Ryan Leaf, Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell.  

    It starts first with owner having the foresight to hire the right guy, then it's a coaches league, the coach creates a culture of winning, creates a positive atmosphere for learning and achieving, not the reverse.

    Please feel free to remove heads from a$$es...

    [/QUOTE]

    Feel free to have another cocktail dumass...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    Good drafting--even better coaching, I think, to get the most out of those drafted players.

    Wozzy's right that it takes a team to win . . . but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to claim Brady would be Ryan Leaf on a bad team.  He might not have the same stellar career he's had in New England, but Brady's talent, attitude, and work ethic would still have taken him far.  Even on a great team, Leaf would likely have been a bust because of his bad attitude.  

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good drafting--even better coaching, I think, to get the most out of those drafted players.

    Wozzy's right that it takes a team to win . . . but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to claim Brady would be Ryan Leaf on a bad team.  He might not have the same stellar career he's had in New England, but Brady's talent, attitude, and work ethic would still have taken him far.  Even on a great team, Leaf would likely have been a bust because of his bad attitude.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks for putting it into p.c. words...  Even though I disagree with the post a tad more strongly since the suggestion that Brady's success is not due to his unique blend of talent, competitive drive, leadership and physical skills, shows an uncommon level of ignorance or blindness.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    After last night's game I think we should all appreciate the work BB the GM has done on the offensive line.  Ted Thompson is going to get Rodgers killed with that embarrassment of an o-line.  Obviously a props to coach Scar as well, but it says a lot that we can be shuffling so many guys around and still give Brady dam good pass protection.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yes only brilliant drafting with 12 of 16 - first or second round picks spent on D since 2008 could give us a D that makes the average QB look like a....

     

    93 QBR, 32 TDs and 4,629 yards kind of guy.

     

    LMAO. Learn the game.

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, don't you get it? We win in SPITE of Brady...Rusty taught me this.

    [/QUOTE]


    9ers, Steelers and Cowboys must have won in spite of having a HOF QB too! Because Rusty has a 154 IQ!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance


    Well, we do know one thing. Whatever team we could supposedly put Brady on for comparison, their pass defense couldn't be much worse.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Well, we do know one thing. Whatever team we could supposedly put Brady on for comparison, their pass defense couldn't be much worse.

    [/QUOTE]


    Brady was just praising the D this morning on WEEI.  Considering the pass D was just fine in the SB allowing 13 points with just 2 FGs in the second half before waiting and waiting and wainting for Brady and the offense to answer, I'd say it has very little to do with the pass D.

    Every time you rail on this D, I am going to bring up Brady's singular failures in SB 46.

     

    [/QUOTE


    Hell of a time to have a bad game.  He looked crappy in reg season loss to jints also. That was the game where he threw picks and seemed not to see the field.  Peyton looked lousy against Romeos chiefs yesterday.  Somehow the defensive scheme seems to get into QBs head.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll say it again and it's undeniably true...  the Pat's don't win 3 rings without the drafting of Richard Seymour.  It just doesn't happen.  So in that regards, the drafting of Seymour is of equal importance as the drafting of Brady.  

    So for those saying the only reason we win, which is stupefying in a sport with 53 man gameday rosters, is only because of Tom Brady realize that he is just a part, albeit a big part of what we do but he is still just a cog in a wheel.  

    Oh yeah and Mark Sanchez had a 90 QB rating against us in the last game, when are we going to realize that is an indicator of nothing?

    There are no rings without Seymour, Viniteri and countless others... football isn't basketball where one player changes the outcome of your team and if Brady was the QB of the Jaguars they would still stink... period.  If Brady is drafted by a dog of a team he becomes Ryan Leaf, Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell.  

    It starts first with owner having the foresight to hire the right guy, then it's a coaches league, the coach creates a culture of winning, creates a positive atmosphere for learning and achieving, not the reverse.

    Please feel free to remove heads from a$$es...

    [/QUOTE]

    Feel free to have another cocktail dumss...

    [/QUOTE]

    You explain to me how Alex Smith playing for everyone prior to Jim Harbaugh is a complete bust, the worst starting QB in the NFL, but when Harbaugh arrives they are one game from the Super Bowl and he receives Pro Bowl considerations... my next cocktail will be gone before you can answer because it doesn't fit into your preconcieved notion that QB play happens in a vacuum. 

    Also explain how Randy Moss on the Raiders is one step away from retirement but on the Patriots a year later he breaks the single season record for TD catches...

    Tom Brady enetered the NFL weighing less than 200 pounds...

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll say it again and it's undeniably true...  the Pat's don't win 3 rings without the drafting of Richard Seymour.  It just doesn't happen.  So in that regards, the drafting of Seymour is of equal importance as the drafting of Brady.  

    So for those saying the only reason we win, which is stupefying in a sport with 53 man gameday rosters, is only because of Tom Brady realize that he is just a part, albeit a big part of what we do but he is still just a cog in a wheel.  

    Oh yeah and Mark Sanchez had a 90 QB rating against us in the last game, when are we going to realize that is an indicator of nothing?

    There are no rings without Seymour, Viniteri and countless others... football isn't basketball where one player changes the outcome of your team and if Brady was the QB of the Jaguars they would still stink... period.  If Brady is drafted by a dog of a team he becomes Ryan Leaf, Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell.  

    It starts first with owner having the foresight to hire the right guy, then it's a coaches league, the coach creates a culture of winning, creates a positive atmosphere for learning and achieving, not the reverse.

    Please feel free to remove heads from a$$es...

    [/QUOTE]

    Feel free to have another cocktail dumss...

    [/QUOTE]

    You explain to me how Alex Smith playing for everyone prior to Jim Harbaugh is a complete bust, the worst starting QB in the NFL, but when Harbaugh arrives they are one game from the Super Bowl and he receives Pro Bowl considerations... my next cocktail will be gone before you can answer because it doesn't fit into your preconcieved notion that QB play happens in a vacuum. 

    Also explain how Randy Moss on the Raiders is one step away from retirement but on the Patriots a year later he breaks the single season record for TD catches...

    Tom Brady enetered the NFL weighing less than 200 pounds...

     

    [/QUOTE]


    How about you explaining your post first where you put Ryan leaf in the same sentence as Brady.  I usually avoid  dumb hypothetical arguments but your statement was so kooky that I had to respond.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    Dude bottom line is NFL QB is probably the hardest position to excel at in all of sports. I played QB in div.1 high school.  That was hard enough.

    People that do it well are uniquely and profoundly talented and will demonstrate this eventually.  The most amazing part of bradys accomplishments is the consistency ( lack of picks streak, completion %, accuracy.). Hard to do.  He does it. 

    Another way to look at it is ... Brady won a super bowl with 6-13 team under pretty good drew Bledsoe.... And oh yeah can't forget Seymour.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    You explain to me how Alex Smith playing for everyone prior to Jim Harbaugh is a complete bust, the worst starting QB in the NFL, but when Harbaugh arrives they are one game from the Super Bowl and he receives Pro Bowl considerations... 

    [/QUOTE]

    When you have the best D in the league and also lead the NFL with 5+ ypc running of course the QB need not carry the team. 19 guys have thrown more TDs than Smith.

    The problem when trying to say Brady does not carry the Pats is that there are no such other outstanding aspects to this Pats' team as can be said of the 9ers.

    With Brady on their team, the 9ers would be unbeatable.

    There are and have been a host of teams with average defenses and average running games that would immediatly be a real threat to go all the way with a QB like Brady behind center.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    You guys think I'm saying Brady doesn't possess what's necessary to be the best and that is not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is it's a two way street, he gets drafted by a cruddy team with little to no weight program or focus and none of the great things happen to him, instead he gets sacked to death.  

    Theres always been great QB's on the worst teams, it doesn't necessarily make them lesser QB's.  Marino in the 90's, Archie Manning on the Saints, Steve Grogan was a great QB on some crappe' teams.  Who knows what Testeverde, Chad Pennington and others would have accomplished on better teams?

    Matt Ryan this year isn't any better than last year; coaching, system, play calling, players around him and execution are better.  

    In short coaching matters, coaching comes before team excellence, not the latter. Sorry if you disagree but without H2O there's no life either.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You guys think I'm saying Brady doesn't possess what's necessary to be the best and that is not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is it's a two way street, he gets drafted by a cruddy team with little to no weight program or focus and none of the great things happen to him, instead he gets sacked to death.  

    Theres always been great QB's on the worst teams, it doesn't necessarily make them lesser QB's.  Marino in the 90's, Archie Manning on the Saints, Steve Grogan was a great QB on some crappe' teams.  Who knows what Testeverde, Chad Pennington and others would have accomplished on better teams?

    Matt Ryan this year isn't any better than last year; coaching, system, play calling, players around him and execution are better.  

    In short coaching matters, coaching comes before team excellence, not the latter. Sorry if you disagree but without H2O there's no life either.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't disagree with what I think you are trying to say, but I think you exaggerated a bit too much when you mention Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.  Sure it's conceivable that Brady doesn't turn out like he has on a crap team, but I think it is safe to say he still would have been a good player just like I think it's safe to say that if you put Russell or Leaf in Brady's place they don't amount to much either.  Coaching matters, but I think some players can still turn out okay on bad teams just like some terrible players cannot be saved on good teams.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    You act as though Brady was a 1st round pick, he was a part time starter in college with a guy who went on to try baseball and football and failed at both, he didn't have the confidence of the Michigan staff and weighed 200 pounds at 6'5."  

    Brady is lucky he got drafted at all, more lucky to get drafted by somebody with the foresight to build him up, play to his strengths, put a great run game around him and who really loves to coach.  

    People who say Brady made Belichick have their heads up their rear, it's a mutually beneficial relationship that Belichick created, don't get it twisted.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You act as though Brady was a 1st round pick, he was a part time starter in college with a guy who went on to try baseball and football and failed at both, he didn't have the confidence of the Michigan staff and weighed 200 pounds at 6'5."  

    Brady is lucky he got drafted at all, more lucky to get drafted by somebody with the foresight to build him up, play to his strengths, put a great run game around him anda person who really loves to coach.  People who say Brady made Belichick have their heads up their rear, it's a mutually beneficial relationship that Belichick created, don't get it twisted.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm not saying Brady made Belichick and I'm not saying Brady isn't fortunate to have BB.  What I am saying is that I don't think he would be Ryan Leaf had he been drafted by another team.  I also don't think Ryan Leaf would have been a first ballot Hall of Famer had you put him in Brady's place.  I don't get what's so controversial about my view.  I am agreeing with you that coaching matters.  I am just saying that there still has to be something there to "coach up".

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    It's not a question of whether Brady would have become Ryan Leaf, it's whether Ryan Leaf would have become a somebody playing for a Belichick or Bill Cowher and I'm saying it's highly likely he would have, had they seen traits that made him draftable.

    The successful teams around the NFL revolve around coaches, the best players want to play for the best coaches.  The only painful hits we've taken as a team over the years has been to our coaching ranks along with a few bedrock type players.

    Some people only point to coaching when something goes wrong and never accept that without coach there is no winning ways.  I'll admit that my saying Brady would become Leaf was hyperbole but only for the sake of my making a point.  

    People who think Belichick lucked his way into success are haters deluding themselves.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: good time to appreciate draft brilliance

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You guys think I'm saying Brady doesn't possess what's necessary to be the best and that is not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is it's a two way street, he gets drafted by a cruddy team with little to no weight program or focus and none of the great things happen to him, instead he gets sacked to death.  

    Theres always been great QB's on the worst teams, it doesn't necessarily make them lesser QB's.  Marino in the 90's, Archie Manning on the Saints, Steve Grogan was a great QB on some crappe' teams.  Who knows what Testeverde, Chad Pennington and others would have accomplished on better teams?

    Matt Ryan this year isn't any better than last year; coaching, system, play calling, players around him and execution are better.  

    In short coaching matters, coaching comes before team excellence, not the latter. Sorry if you disagree but without H2O there's no life either.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    You lost me at using Grogan and great QB in the same sentence.

     

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