Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

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    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : Just something to keep in mind as the league and the players start their little PR games to try to get the public to take one side or the other. Players make a lot of money--but very few of them make Goodell money.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Again, so what? The owners pay him. THEY feel he's worth it. It's their sense of value in him to protect their interest, NOT the "interest of the game". I don't want to be on one side or the other, so your PR angle doesn't come near touching my "hot button" of stuff to get riled up about. I'm a football fan, and will find a game somewhere, just like I did when those MLB mental midgets went on strike lo those many times. There's minor leagues and local stuff. We still have college ball to follow. Some of us fans need to get off the NFL teet, and quickly. I will not let the NFL hold any powerful sway over me. My life will go on just fine if they folded their neon lights and tents tomorrow.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : I think your point is a valid comparison. Goodell is making decisions about the players lives while making more money and not worrying about injury himself.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but the man was hired and is paid by OWNERS. The players hve nothing to do with his title or position, just as the owners have nothignto do/say about the head of the NFLPA. He, too, BTW, never dons a uniform, walks onto th field, or risks injury. I'm sure his total yearly compensation package is considerably more than most of the players he represents, AND makes decisions for. 

    The only plares that ever truly "gain" fromthese CBA's are teh stars who will undoubtedly get their money. The high 1st rounders also made huge coin (hopefully soon to change). The rest are caught up in a numbers game, as long as there's a cap in place. Sure, they get paid for a while, then they all eventually get cut.  
     
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    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : Yeah Enoch . . . and as a season ticket holder myself, I was a bit annoyed by Goodell's comment in his "letter to fans" that he's trying to expand the season because we season ticket holders don't like paying for meaningless preseason games.  That's just a load of BS.  They want to expand the season for one reason and one reason only: to make more money (by selling two more weeks of games to the networks).  Maybe that's okay--but then why feed the fans a load of BS to justify it? Just come out and be honest.  We want to sell more games to CBS and FOX so we can increase our revenues by 10% or 15%.  The real reason Goodell is spinning is because he knows 18 games is bad for the players.  And he doesn't want the fans to take their side.  So he's trying to find a way to paint this expansion to 18 games as something that he's doing to help us poor fans.  It's a crock. He's doing it so the owners can make more money--probably at the expense of the players' health and longevity in the league.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    OK, we'll play this your way. The commish comes out and says exctly what you want. Will you still pony up the money for the same 10 games (ticket prices WON'T be reduced, as long as they sell out exhibition games)? Besides griping about what he says and what you want to hear, what's the ultimate difference? You WILL be payingteh same/more for the same tickets to 10 games, only 9 will be for real.

    Players longevity? Are you nuts? How many times do we see guys on the "out" report for stuff like "groin", "hand", or just "inactive"? Players know the risks of playing with the big boys. They get well compensated for their efforts if they make a team. If not, they can always fall back on that quality education they received at America's finest bastions of higher learning (wink! wink! chuckle! snort! chuckle!)  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    AZPAT--I'm not quite sure we're arguing over much here.  Here, though, is what I don't like.  When labor disputes happen in sports fans have a tendency to blame the players.  "They're greedy."  "They make too much for playing a child's game." Etc, etc.  I think the league is trying (subtly) to get fans to do this--to put the blame for the labor dispute on the players and to suggest that ticket prices are as high as they are purely because of the players.  But the reality is that NFL top management--and NFL owners--are making a heck of a lot more money than most of the players.  There's a ton of money sloshing around in the NFL and it's not just players making it.  The dispute isn't really about greedy players driving up prices for owners and fans.  It's about dividing a big huge pie between workers (players) and management/ownership.  Reducing player salaries won't reduce costs for fans--that's a load of BS--all it will do is increase profits for owners. Now I don't mind the owners making money either.  But I don't like silly PR games that try to put blame on one side when the other side is every bit as greedy.  

    Let's just be honest.  The goal on the owners' side is to maximize profits for owners.  The goal on the players' side is to get the biggest possible salaries and benefits for themselves. Making the game cheaper for fans isn't something anyone in these negotiations really cares about, as long as fans remain willing to pay the prices and fill the seats. 

    Personally, in disputes like this, I tend to root for labor over management.  What's funny, in my own work, I'm on the management side.  But because of that, I know exactly what motivates management--and believe me, it's not altruism.

    Just a little story.  Back (years ago) when I started working, I got a job in a factory (working on the assembly line).  One Friday, the foreman took a few of the longer term employees out to celebrate the retirement of one of the workers (I stayed back to work since I was new).  The guys drank a few beers (paying for everything out of their own pockets) and got back to the factory a few minutes late. Everyone was immediately fired.

    Once I got into a management position, something similar happened when an employee left. We all went to a fancy restaurant in New York and spent hundreds on wine and expensive food.  Lunch lasted three hours.  When we got back, all we did was file an expense report so it didn't cost us anything.

    That my friends is the real world of labor and management. 
      




     
     
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    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]Well, you could look at this one of two ways, depending on if you are a lazy, money-for-nothing union guy or an evil corporate pirate. Sure . . .  Goodell looks like a prime douchenozzle for appearing indifferent to the potential plight of knocked up star-fuckers, but by the same token, the union using a naked emotional appeal through the media as a negotiating tactic is not exactly a "strictly business approach," now is it?
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]
    A few people can write insightful little nuggets like this one but only you Pmike could sprinkle in the use of "douchenozzle" and "star-fuckers" to punctuate this literary brilliance.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

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    What's wrong with the comment? Get the deal done and the insurance doesn't run out. 

    Don't get it done and the players will have the foot the bill for the delivery.

     Considering they make 500 + grand a year they make I think they can cover it, or heaven forbid they have to cutback on their lifestyle expenditures. Hard to feel bad for them when so many other people have no insurance at all and go into bankruptcy when that kind of stuff happens.

    Now if you want to talk about the feminization of football you have my agreement on that. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

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    Assuming the commish said what was actually attributed to him, I would expect that a guy in his position would say it a tad differently - he of all people know just how wacko this political correctness crapola has become.  I understand this is a labor re-negotiation, but I can't exactly cry the players a river of woe that signed on under the old agreement.  I mean, were they forced into indentured servitide?  Did the commish, the owners (or agents) hold a gun to their collective heads and force them to sign on the dotted line.  Did not a great many of them leave college early (and thus waive a free college education) to enter the draft, with the expressed purpose of signing for as much money as they could under the present conditions of the CBA?  I fully appreciate their right to negotiate a new CBA, but for those whining over what this CBA does or doesn't have - I feel for them not one iota.  Players have the same choice we all do - don't like the conditions of your employment - quit your job and look elsewhere - I hear the Canadian and European football leagues are paying top dollar with top benefits.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

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     Good thing Gotohel is a Lawyer because he is a terrible comedian.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

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    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : A few people can write insightful little nuggets like this one but only you Pmike could sprinkle in the use of "douchenozzle" and "star-fuckers" to punctuate this literary brilliance.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    You have to give the people what they want.

    Cool


    It's the first rule of info-tainment.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]AZPAT--I'm not quite sure we're arguing over much here.  Here, though, is what I don't like.  When labor disputes happen in sports fans have a tendency to blame the players.  "They're greedy."  "They make too much for playing a child's game." Etc, etc.  I think the league is trying (subtly) to get fans to do this--to put the blame for the labor dispute on the players and to suggest that ticket prices are as high as they are purely because of the players.  But the reality is that NFL top management--and NFL owners--are making a heck of a lot more money than most of the players.  There's a ton of money sloshing around in the NFL and it's not just players making it.  The dispute isn't really about greedy players driving up prices for owners and fans.  It's about dividing a big huge pie between workers (players) and management/ownership.  Reducing player salaries won't reduce costs for fans--that's a load of BS--all it will do is increase profits for owners. Now I don't mind the owners making money either.  But I don't like silly PR games that try to put blame on one side when the other side is every bit as greedy.   Let's just be honest.  The goal on the owners' side is to maximize profits for owners.  The goal on the players' side is to get the biggest possible salaries and benefits for themselves. Making the game cheaper for fans isn't something anyone in these negotiations really cares about, as long as fans remain willing to pay the prices and fill the seats.  Personally, in disputes like this, I tend to root for labor over management.  What's funny, in my own work, I'm on the management side.  But because of that, I know exactly what motivates management--and believe me, it's not altruism. Just a little story.  Back (years ago) when I started working, I got a job in a factory (working on the assembly line).  One Friday, the foreman took a few of the longer term employees out to celebrate the retirement of one of the workers (I stayed back to work since I was new).  The guys drank a few beers (paying for everything out of their own pockets) and got back to the factory a few minutes late. Everyone was immediately fired. Once I got into a management position, something similar happened when an employee left. We all went to a fancy restaurant in New York and spent hundreds on wine and expensive food.  Lunch lasted three hours.  When we got back, all we did was file an expense report so it didn't cost us anything. That my friends is the real world of labor and management.      
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    I'm not saying that anyone is trying to make this less expensive for fans. That'll NEVER happen unless there is a bankruptcy filed on behalf of the NFL. Sorry, higher prices are here to stay. Either you pay the freight or you don't. Right now, via salariesand various other "contributions", the NFLPA gets 60% of the revenue. Now, I may be a victim of a public education from The People's Republic, but "60" is more than "40". Someone needs to prove to me it isn't.

    If teh players don't like what's going on, they can always go out and start up their own leages (WFL and USFL, anyone?). Fact is they can't and come close to what they have now, so they whine about how life in the NFL isn't fair, especially those FA's "franchised" by owners. They got their FA, which only stars get the real big buck benefit of, and the rest are signed to a 2 year plus 1 year option contract, and are out of football within 2 years. Why? Because someone bigger,faster, younger, adn BETTER comes alone and will get those dollars. The Pats do it, yet no one really complains about it, because they prove they know what they're doing with positive yearly results. 

    Your example has a HUGE flaw. It's not about blue collar workers getting fired for drinking at lunch and coming back late. It's about those same guys coming back, WORKING AN ASSEMBLY LINE (does safety and liability come to mind?). Assembly line conjure up something called "production": the more widgets made, the more they can sell, the more money they can make. On the other hand, management sitting around a table with food and wine for 3 hours could in fact be very productive to a company, as they will be "out of the way", allowing the workers to do their jobs. I doubt if you or "management" in your lunch operated anything more dangerous than a telephone or electic stapler. I'll even toss in a fax machine and copier.

    Bottom line is that NO ONE wins in this labor strife. Prices and costs will NEVER go down, unless there is a complete and total financial shut down (no TV money, no local advertising revenue, no apparel/gear sales), and they have to start over. Even then.....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

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    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]What's wrong with the comment? Get the deal done and the insurance doesn't run out.  Don't get it done and the players will have the foot the bill for the delivery.  Considering they make 500 + grand a year they make I think they can cover it, or heaven forbid they have to cutback on their lifestyle expenditures. Hard to feel bad for them when so many other people have no insurance at all and go into bankruptcy when that kind of stuff happens. Now if you want to talk about the feminization of football you have my agreement on that. 
    Posted by Macrawn[/QUOTE]

    Speaking of "lifestyles", how much does a package of those Lifestyle Condums (Thanks, Globe) cost? I'll bet it's cheaper than paying for an uninsured childbirth at any hospital.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : Yeah Enoch . . . and as a season ticket holder myself, I was a bit annoyed by Goodell's comment in his "letter to fans" that he's trying to expand the season because we season ticket holders don't like paying for meaningless preseason games.  That's just a load of BS.  They want to expand the season for one reason and one reason only: to make more money (by selling two more weeks of games to the networks).  Maybe that's okay--but then why feed the fans a load of BS to justify it? Just come out and be honest.  We want to sell more games to CBS and FOX so we can increase our revenues by 10% or 15%.  The real reason Goodell is spinning is because he knows 18 games is bad for the players.  And he doesn't want the fans to take their side.  So he's trying to find a way to paint this expansion to 18 games as something that he's doing to help us poor fans.  It's a crock. He's doing it so the owners can make more money--probably at the expense of the players' health and longevity in the league.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I 100% agree and have posted the same on other threads. 

    The whole expansion because the fans don't want to pay for pre-season tickets is just so much smoke.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : Sorry, but the man was hired and is paid by OWNERS. The players hve nothing to do with his title or position, just as the owners have nothignto do/say about the head of the NFLPA. He, too, BTW, never dons a uniform, walks onto th field, or risks injury. I'm sure his total yearly compensation package is considerably more than most of the players he represents, AND makes decisions for.  The only plares that ever truly "gain" fromthese CBA's are teh stars who will undoubtedly get their money. The high 1st rounders also made huge coin (hopefully soon to change). The rest are caught up in a numbers game, as long as there's a cap in place. Sure, they get paid for a while, then they all eventually get cut.  
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    You are missing the point.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! : OK, we'll play this your way. The commish comes out and says exctly what you want. Will you still pony up the money for the same 10 games (ticket prices WON'T be reduced, as long as they sell out exhibition games)? Besides griping about what he says and what you want to hear, what's the ultimate difference? You WILL be payingteh same/more for the same tickets to 10 games, only 9 will be for real. Players longevity? Are you nuts? How many times do we see guys on the "out" report for stuff like "groin", "hand", or just "inactive"? Players know the risks of playing with the big boys. They get well compensated for their efforts if they make a team. If not, they can always fall back on that quality education they received at America's finest bastions of higher learning (wink! wink! chuckle! snort! chuckle!)  
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    See my post above about alternate solutions regarding ticket options. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    "Laz is that you???  Its your old buddy Stomper, (aka Jerry Springer) How are ya man!!!"

    Just saw this now stomp, sorry not earlier...  Like everyone else in this region, been busy dealing with new entire mountain chains of snow...  Stomp...been meaning to ask: You're not by any chance (name obscured through bad rhyme) Right Sash Hang, Are ya?  Every time I think of a trully off the wall signature from some relatively new poster and you're elsewhere, something seems a tad fishy imo...  IF I'm goin' with the best signatures on this board, I gotta go with the succinct yet lyrically perfect in it's rapidity: "everybody loves wtg."  Only thing comparable, would be something perhaps from harley...  My fav?  "Uncle Alf#e's an ###hole."  Lmao, but I color myself an impartial voter there on that one... 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!

    In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goodell said WHAT?!?!?! :  Right now, via salariesand various other "contributions", the NFLPA gets 60% of the revenue. Now, I may be a victim of a public education from The People's Republic, but "60" is more than "40". Someone needs to prove to me it isn't. If teh players don't like what's going on, they can always go out and start up t
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    That 60% of revenues goes to the players (2000 or so active ones, plus money funding retirement benefits for the thousands of retired players) and 40% goes to the teams doesn't say anything about how much individuals are making.  Many of the owners are billionaires and are making many millions every year from their teams--plus the value of their asset has been appreciating rapidly to the point where just about every NFL team is now worth around a billion dollars. Goodell, as I said, is making $9+ million a year (he was making more like $11 million before the recession).  While there are a few players who make similar money for a few years during their careers, the vast majority of NFL players complete their careers having earned a far smaller amount. This doesn't mean they're poor by any means--most Americans don't even come close to earning as much--but it also doesn't mean they're all that wealthy. A guy who plays for six years and makes an average of $700,000 per year (typical for a lot of journeymen players) is going to end up earning (after taxes) roughly $2.5 million over his career.  If he's frugal, he might save close to $2 million during his playing years, which is a nice nest egg, but it's not going to last a whole lifetime.  If he's injured and has high medical expenses, he'll eat up those savings pretty quickly.  If I understand it correctly, the NFL pays health benefits for only five years after a player retires.  If you're injured and have high health expenses (and maybe can't get another job with health benefits), you could be in real financial trouble.  I'm not sure what it's like to try to buy health insurance on the private market if you've been an NFL player and suffered concussions and other potentially devastating injuries--but I doubt it's easy or cheap.

    I'm not saying we should cry rivers for the players.  Far from it.  They make very good money.  But for a lot of the average players, it's not quite the same lifestyle as it is for the stars like Brady. And for most, it's not close to the lifestyle a guy like Goodell or Kraft lives.  Not even close . . . 

     
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