Grade Pats draft through Round 2

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    What do you give overall grade based on what they got, passed on or gave up.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bradleyBliss. Show bradleyBliss's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    What do you give overall grade based on what they got, passed on or gave up.
    Posted by Eldunker



    Just about the grades given EVERY YEAR for BB's Drafts!   Like last year....then we go 14-2 and "Who is Deven McCourty?"   Becomes All-Pro McCourty!  Seems like a typical draft year to me.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    I like the 1st round pick, because it will help protect Brady and no one can argue that protecting him isn't the most important issue. The kid will also be able to come in as an eligible receiver and maybe we can stir up our offensive playbook a little.

    However, I though we should have used our #28 pick to get a pass rusher. They must be eyeing something down the road or else I don't see why you keep doing this every year. 

    The CB selection was a surprise, mainly because Bodden will be back this year. I guess BB has plans for our secondary with this new tall and physical corner. Hopefully he can stay healthy, because there were still some good names left on the board.

    The RB selection is fine with me, probably the next best option and NFL ready RB behind Ingram. I though we needed more of a guy who could really pound the football for the short yardage. He has good hands and could be the next Kevin Faulk.

    However, in the end we still have a pressing need with the pass rush. I am not upset at BB trading into next years first round again. He is just holding that value until he finds someone he really likes one year. But, it is getting tiring watching this happen and see other teams pick up big time players. If we have one more great regular season with a disappointing exit in the playoffs, than I think we need to change our drafting style by picking up the proven big impact players and stop trading away picks. We have some great 2nd year players that will continue to solidify this team and I can only hope we can find some late round gems or find a OLB pass rusher in free agency(if there is one)

    Grade:B
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fancy-shamanski. Show fancy-shamanski's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    I don't like the fact that they needed pass rush more then anything, could have taken great pass rushers, drafted players that are good but not needed, getting bodden back,  the d will not be any better (unless players we have now greatly improve which is possible).  the D needs to get a lot better.  the d could've gotten a lot better.  EVERY SINGLE SB TEAM HAS A GREAT PASS RUSH FROM INDY TO SAINTS TO PACK TO PATS WHEN WE WON SBs.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_1262959. Show user_1262959's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    D minus.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RonMex2. Show RonMex2's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    Here is a site I think graded good...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    I'll give it a "who the hell really knows until they take the field".  Fair grade, eh? 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    Looking back, this is how I now wish it went down: 17 - Solder: I trust that they did their homework and his instincts are sharp 28 - Carimi: Trade Mankins, and free up his cap space along with Matt Light's and Kazcur's cap space. Carimi starts at guard and is a good backup for both tackles, espec right tackle. 33 - Trade straight up for a likely mid or high mid 2012 1st round pick late 2nd - Vereen prob still there
     
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    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    Here is a site I think graded good... http://60maxpowero.com/draftermath3.html
    Posted by RonMex2


    For the love of god, can this guy get banned? 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2 : For the love of god, can this guy get banned? 
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33

    Seriously. Go flag his posts. I have. If more people do he'll get the message that spamming here isn't going to win him viewers.

    He does not "get" the reason you aren't supposed spam...if you allow him then this place is going to turn into a bunch of shills selling cheap products and terrible weblog links like his.

    In the end, I don't know what is worse: the fact that the mods seem partially indifferent (very slow to move and they WON'T ban them) to his and "DNA53" spamming this board (yes that is right, he has two handles to spam with) 
    OR
    that the site he keeps pushing is TERRIBLE and depressing and basicaly is populated with adds, recycled video of photo content that we already can get at Patriots.com, ESPNBoston, Boston.com, TheHerald, and some really sad little blurbs that offer nothing better than regurgitated stuff from scouting reports that and partially coherent bio material that has grammatical errors to boot.

    Seriously .. it looks like the panel of a Wheaties box.

    I'm sick to death of reading these silly spams.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolltide1963. Show rolltide1963's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    In Response to Grade Pats draft through Round 2 : Just about the grades given EVERY YEAR for BB's Drafts!   Like last year....then we go 14-2 and "Who is Deven McCourty?"   Becomes All-Pro McCourty!  Seems like a typical draft year to me.
    Posted by bradleyBliss



    14-2 in the regualr season.  It sounds great, until you put that into perspective 0-3 in their last 3 post season games.  And really, their last victory in the playoffs, a Victory over a San Diego team that had: it's starting QB playing on 1 leg ( Rivers), it's primary RB out of action ( LT ) , it's starting TE  ( GAtes ) a red zone machine out of action.  A win is a win, but a hollow victory, particularly when the Patriots flopped in the Superbowl.


    I would venture to guess, The Patriots would gladly trade 17-0 and 14-2  for a 10-6 season that concluded with victories in the Superbowl.  What do you think ?
     
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    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    Love my team, and wrote the draft day thread the day after last year's NE Draft calling it, "NE's 2010 Draft Class, Pats BEST draft in a decade if not more."  Imho, it was the carbon copy of how a team SHOULD draft. 

    Guarentee your 1st Rd Talent IS TOTALLY 1st rd worthy, AND STILL get him at the right but certain draft spot (McCourty).  Tiny trade down...but STILL smart enough to know exactly where NE could get DMC...  Brilliant start.

    Then stockpile Need + Talent with someone who slipped, but WAS 1st rd worthy, but at a less coveted position than getting the 7th rated DE in the 2nd rd (Gronkowski-TE injury previous year, but stud, and true needed spot).  Same thing further down holds with Spikes (bad 40 time, spectacular collegiate career but not as good Senior year only-ILB spot still can get 1st or 2nd #1 prospect star quality at the bottom of Rd 2...SILB needed NE position). 

    Next Cunningham and Hernandez.  Hernandez due to his size alone slipped VERY far down, so it was fantastic value at an H-back spot, pass-catching vert TE spot, NE never had.  Cunningham...See, You CAN reach with a 3-4 OLB prospect here at the bottom of 2nd or into 3rd rd, because collegiate DE- 3-4 OLB convert IS a huge risk for a team, and ya don't spend a high pick on a positional transfer, right?  VERY much NEEDED spot for NE, but with them shoring up all those other spots of need but at exceptional draft day prospect skill value, A gamble right here, IS good. 

    Next, Taylor Price=Positional need, but STILL a reach.  Yet, Very much a position of need to revamp wideout corp, and even though from a small school and small conference, Recall: "You canNOT teach size and speed" mantra.  Price was blazingly fast and so even though, there might have been more heralded bigger name wideouts still on the big board, couple Price's skill + speed with the fact that you CAN now slightly overweigh certain other "Intangible" qualities like being selfless, hard-working, good off-field, good teammate etc.., and suddenly it becomes actually a smart risk vs reward value system into the 3rd and 4th rds by targeting such a "raw" player or from a small school, but at a much needed spot, but one who's great physical tools can develop and one who has great intangibles... 

    Next, in those mid-rds you go for your O-Lineman...  And that's ALWAYS a fantastic "Value" position to target at such a deep collegiate position (5 total lineman on the field...duh), and you therefore can STILL hopefully better your odds at getting quality skill into these middle rounds of the draft, unlike other spots (Ted Larsen...even an OC.  Not just a great O-Line spot to take, but OC or OG, unlike OT, always has targets falling further down the overall big board).  Then stayed the same at O-Line, b/c remember O-Line's always THE deepest by the sheer simple number of guys, and they BEST bettered their odds staying at this spot as they selected (OT Thomas Welch). 

    Next=Punter.  Ideally ya target these STeamers into Rd 6, but gimme a break!   This draft was SO exceptional, 1 rd of difference in order to get the nation's #1 Punter, Zoltan Mesko, in rd 5, rather than 6...I Ain't complainin'...and I didn't.  NE had cr#p for Punting, and BB wants to secure the best Punter, in Rd 5 rather than 6...?  After what he did thus far in this draft?!?  It's o.k. by me...

    What'd they do next?  PERFECT move.  What can't you teach again people...?!?  A:  Size and Speed.  So what does BB do with his final 2 picks?  He targets 2 big monster D-Lineman.  These guys, the physique that's even needed to hopefully by a 3-4 D-Lineman, does NOT grow on trees everywhere.  Then lmao-BB (and imo, you can't even fictionalize a better way to draft)-BB took a QB.  UN-real...  Think Matt Cassel here.  QB spot...such an absurdly A#1 key part.  NE has the best QB IN the entire league, but what if he goes down, or eventually retires, or whatever???  ALWAYS good to BEST your chances year in and year out in taking a very tiny gamble on the most impt position in football.  Minute risk...Jackpot reward.  Heck, NO matter what, there are so many teams with such garbage at QB in the NFL...maybe you can trade him for a big payday after he performs even somewhat well in a game or two, or late in a few games, right?  (sound like someone NE did this with?)

    THAT is an EXTREMELY smart way to draft, which positions, why, which positions you CAN reach on (because you NEED them on your team regardless), Where you Should NOT reach for players skill-wise, Where to STILL find value later on in the draft Rounds, heck-Even when to stretch a bit and start reaching for guys, but not more than 1 or 1 1/2 rds in advance, b/c you need the position and the player was less heralded for some reason, YET has those BEYOND solid "Intangibles" in order to compensate for this.  

    Even at the time, some of us freak 365 days a year draft-nuts, KNEW that BB had masterfully executed the 2010 NE Draft...and we said so OVERTLY.  Even IF he didn't?  Belichick went about it in the perfect way, the perfect plan AND direction, AND reasoning behind each every pick, the draft spot, the player, the specific player...  It WAS a great battlefield plan.  Him executing it properly was the icing on top...  But THAT directional plan, WAS THE most important aspect.  And in VERY many respects, It could have and SHOULD have been followed.  We ALL know battle plans need to be revised, and adapted to given the situation, right?  But this is the NFL Draft here folks...  There is no reason that a GREAT many of these general tactics would NOT work over and over and over again...always.   


    This Draft?  It was a f#cking tragedy.  Where do I personally rank this draft after just the 1st 2 rds, and only these 2?  C  -f#cking- minus...  It had to work it's way "up" subsequently, to the staright up and solid "D" that it was.  Do I hope I'm wrong about the guys...Do I hope these prospects succeed as Patriots...  D#mn straight I hope they succeed!  But there IS no arguing with the reality here:  Belichick, given his arsenal on draft day, Could and SHOULD, have done so much more...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    Love my team, and wrote the draft day thread the day after last year's NE Draft calling it, "NE's 2010 Draft Class, Pats BEST draft in a decade if not more."  Imho, it was the carbon copy of how a team SHOULD draft.  Guarentee your 1st Rd Talent IS TOTALLY 1st rd worthy, AND STILL get him at the right but certain draft spot (McCourty).  Tiny trade down...but STILL smart enough to know exactly where NE could get DMC...  Brilliant start. Then stockpile Need + Talent with someone who slipped, but WAS 1st rd worthy, but at a less coveted position than getting the 7th rated DE in the 2nd rd (Gronkowski-TE injury previous year, but stud, and true needed spot).  Same thing further down holds with Spikes (bad 40 time, spectacular collegiate career but not as good Senior year only-ILB spot still can get 1st or 2nd #1 prospect star quality at the bottom of Rd 2...SILB needed NE position).  Next Cunningham and Hernandez.  Hernandez due to his size alone slipped VERY far down, so it was fantastic value at an H-back spot, pass-catching vert TE spot, NE never had.  Cunningham...See, You CAN reach with a 3-4 OLB prospect here at the bottom of 2nd or into 3rd rd, because collegiate DE- 3-4 OLB convert IS a huge risk for a team, and ya don't spend a high pick on a positional transfer, right?  VERY much NEEDED spot for NE, but with them shoring up all those other spots of need but at exceptional draft day prospect skill value, A gamble right here, IS good.  Next, Taylor Price=Positional need, but STILL a reach.  Yet, Very much a position of need to revamp wideout corp, and even though from a small school and small conference, Recall: "You canNOT teach size and speed" mantra.  Price was blazingly fast and so even though, there might have been more heralded bigger name wideouts still on the big board, couple Price's skill + speed with the fact that you CAN now slightly overweigh certain other "Intangible" qualities like being selfless, hard-working, good off-field, good teammate etc.., and suddenly it becomes actually a smart risk vs reward value system into the 3rd and 4th rds by targeting such a "raw" player or from a small school, but at a much needed spot, but one who's great physical tools can develop and one who has great intangibles...  Next, in those mid-rds you go for your O-Lineman...  And that's ALWAYS a fantastic "Value" position to target at such a deep collegiate position (5 total lineman on the field...duh), and you therefore can STILL hopefully better your odds at getting quality skill into these middle rounds of the draft, unlike other spots (Ted Larsen...even an OC.  Not just a great O-Line spot to take, but OC or OG, unlike OT, always has targets falling further down the overall big board).  Then stayed the same at O-Line, b/c remember O-Line's always THE deepest by the sheer simple number of guys, and they BEST bettered their odds staying at this spot as they selected (OT Thomas Welch).  Next=Punter.  Ideally ya target these STeamers into Rd 6, but gimme a break!   This draft was SO exceptional, 1 rd of difference in order to get the nation's #1 Punter, Zoltan Mesko, in rd 5, rather than 6...I Ain't complainin'...and I didn't.  NE had cr#p for Punting, and BB wants to secure the best Punter, in Rd 5 rather than 6...?  After what he did thus far in this draft?!?  It's o.k. by me... What'd they do next?  PERFECT move.  What can't you teach again people...?!?  A:  Size and Speed.  So what does BB do with his final 2 picks?  He targets 2 big monster D-Lineman.  These guys, the physique that's even needed to hopefully by a 3-4 D-Lineman, does NOT grow on trees everywhere.  Then lmao-BB (and imo, you can't even fictionalize a better way to draft)-BB took a QB.  UN-real...  Think Matt Cassel here.  QB spot...such an absurdly A#1 key part.  NE has the best QB IN the entire league, but what if he goes down, or eventually retires, or whatever???  ALWAYS good to BEST your chances year in and year out in taking a very tiny gamble on the most impt position in football.  Minute risk...Jackpot reward.  Heck, NO matter what, there are so many teams with such garbage at QB in the NFL...maybe you can trade him for a big payday after he performs even somewhat well in a game or two, or late in a few games, right?  (sound like someone NE did this with?) THAT is an EXTREMELY smart way to draft, which positions, why, which positions you CAN reach on (because you NEED them on your team regardless), Where you Should NOT reach for players skill-wise, Where to STILL find value later on in the draft Rounds, heck-Even when to stretch a bit and start reaching for guys, but not more than 1 or 1 1/2 rds in advance, b/c you need the position and the player was less heralded for some reason, YET has those BEYOND solid "Intangibles" in order to compensate for this.   Even at the time, some of us freak 365 days a year draft-nuts, KNEW that BB had masterfully executed the 2010 NE Draft...and we said so OVERTLY.  Even IF he didn't?  Belichick went about it in the perfect way, the perfect plan AND direction, AND reasoning behind each every pick, the draft spot, the player, the specific player...  It WAS a great battlefield plan.  Him executing it properly was the icing on top...  But THAT directional plan, WAS THE most important aspect.  And in VERY many respects, It could have and SHOULD have been followed.  We ALL know battle plans need to be revised, and adapted to given the situation, right?  But this is the NFL Draft here folks...  There is no reason that a GREAT many of these general tactics would NOT work over and over and over again...always.    This Draft?  It was a f#cking tragedy.  Where do I personally rank this draft after just the 1st 2 rds, and only these 2?  C  -f#cking- minus...  It had to work it's way "up" subsequently, to the staright up and solid "D" that it was.  Do I hope I'm wrong about the guys...Do I hope these prospects succeed as Patriots...  D#mn straight I hope they succeed!  But there IS no arguing with the reality here:  Belichick, given his arsenal on draft day, Could and SHOULD, have done so much more...
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium


    laz!
    i've been looking for this post from you since may 1 !
    thanks for getting it somewhere up on the board.
    its been a lot of "putting a smiley face on it and calling it great" largely around the board.
    seeing through rose colored glasses thing.
    refreshing to see the rare people who may call it what it is (while still hoping for the best)

    after seeing it go down, what might you have done if you were the playcaller during the draft for the pats?

    do you think bb and craft are planning to lay out $ in free agency for top olb? de or just do what they normally do?

    cheers
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    laz! i've been looking for this post from you since may 1 ! thanks for getting it somewhere up on the board. its been a lot of "putting a smiley face on it and calling it great" largely around the board. seeing through rose colored glasses thing. refreshing to see the rare people who may call it what it is (while still hoping for the best) after seeing it go down, what might you have done if you were the playcaller during the draft for the pats? do you think bb and craft are planning to lay out $ in free agency for top olb? de or just do what they normally do? cheers
    Posted by brdbreu

    Most of us here focus on the positives, "seeing through rose colored glasses thing." Others focus on the negative, "the rare people who may call it what it is." I respect Laz' knowledge of college prospects and he may well be right, however no team gets them right all the time. I think the Patriots will "just do what they normally do", which is win, win, win.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    So far, I love Solder.  I love both of the trades.  I'm a bit wary of Ras-I (short arms but extra height) and I'm a bit wary of Vereen (small hands and a record of fumblitis go together).
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    So far, I love Solder.  I love both of the trades.  I'm a bit wary of Ras-I (short arms but extra height) and I'm a bit wary of Vereen (small hands and a record of fumblitis go together).
    Posted by Paul_K


    thanks for your thoughts paul.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2 : Most of us here focus on the positives, " seeing through rose colored glasses thing ." Others focus on the negative, " the rare people who may call it what it is ." I respect Laz' knowledge of college prospects and he may well be right, however no team gets them right all the time. I think the Patriots will " just do what they normally do ", which is win, win, win.
    Posted by digger0862


    digger, got no problem with looking at positives.
    i have found that being able to make intelligent critiques in life allows for improvement a la, looking at the negatives as well(which is why its good to have other coaches around you with weight who can make those critiques and make strategies equally).

    yes we win, win, win till we get to the playoffs; then we lose, lose, lose and it would be nice to change that. lets hope we get some pass rush help in fa and maybe even some wr help.

    thanks for your post
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    brdbreu, I am confident that will change.

    Were we good enough to win it all in 2007? Definitely yes
    Were we good enough to win it all in 2008? Probably not
    Were we good enough to win it all in 2009? Probably not
    Were we good enough to win it all in 2010? Definitely yes
    Did we lose any major contributors from the 2010 team? Not yet
    Will we be good enough to win it all in 2011 even without a good draft?

    I think so. But since the Kraft era I think that every year.

    "But there IS no arguing with the reality here:  Belichick, given his arsenal on draft day, Could and SHOULD, have done so much more..."

    Instead he trades into next year again. It would be nice to get Belichick's reasoning on this wouldn't it Laz?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    brdbreu, I am confident that will change. Were we good enough to win it all in 2007? Definitely yes Were we good enough to win it all in 2008? Probably not Were we good enough to win it all in 2009? Probably not Were we good enough to win it all in 2010? Definitely yes Did we lose any major contributors from the 2010 team? Not yet Will we be good enough to win it all in 2011 even without a good draft? I think so. But since the Kraft era I think that every year. "But there IS no arguing with the reality here:  Belichick, given his arsenal on draft day, Could and SHOULD, have done so much more..." Instead he trades into next year again. I t would be nice to get Belichick's reasoning on this wouldn't it Laz?
    Posted by digger0862


    Oh man digger, I am a HUGE proponent on trading for future draft picks.  EVERY...Single...Year.  Always.  People bashed that trade with New Orleans at Selection spot #28 in Round 1...  REALLY?!?  I wouldn't care WhoTH was on the Big Board!  Belichick moved down halfway into Rd 2 AND got Orleans 1st Rd pick in 2012.  Jesus, IF the Saints win the d#mn SB and Pats pick at #32 next year, that means NE STILL got an absurdly good deal.  I even went into all of this on a draft thread on draft day itself, by mentioning Both this, and the fact that this 2011 drafft class was shallow on the "Elite" talent part (and very hazy this time around, and by my estimates, these "Elite" types were gonna be off the board anywhere from selection 16-18 to selection (at best, when teams made poor "reaches")- selection 22-maybe 24...  

    But I'm not talking 1 single bit about trading down, and stockpiling future picks...  And I didn't in my post.  Heck, I wanted to trade down that #33 pick too, and get ideally a very late 2nd rder, and a 3rd rder, or even two 3rd rders, or I'd even have taken a 3rd and a 4th rder, along with a future 2nd or 3rd rder...All doable.

    I AM tallking about targeting the correct guys for the correct price, selection-wise.  And above ALL else, NO multi-rd "Reaches."  Just see my 1st post above, and compare it to this draft...  Rd 1, you target Guranteed ready to play true talent...And I wanted an OT too.  Imho, NE especially this year, had to start with the trenches, and the OTs were slipping down the board b/c so many 3-4 teams now, and they all want a 3-4 DE/DT.  And even though NE NEEDS this spot ideally as well, OT both takes priority in both need, targetable talent b/c of guys projected to slipping (and they did).  BUT, you target, skilled targetable ready to play talent that was well-proven on the field...AND at the right price (as always).  Not a prospect that got blown up at The Senior Bowl, but has massive upside, but only IF he reaches his true potential (and you pray he does), He'll only be a LOT not both an interchangeable ROT and LOT.  And it just makes sense, to NOT start a guy at Brady's blindside...It'd be ideal getting him and allowing him to get a "feel" for the O-Line next to Mankins on the ROT spot.  NE could have and should have taken Carimi who showed himself to be by far the best ROT, and when and after each and every one of his practices and the senior bowl game itself, Carimi showed that he was far and away a GREAT pass-blocking LOT...better than any other senior OTs there, including Solder.  The fact that they even tried him at OG, and Carimi was superb there, was just added bonus.  But even at 1st rd pick #17, there was who?  Carimi, Solder, Sherrod, and Castonzo still on the board, right?  And ALL of these guys, at worst were very end of 1st rd worthy talent, right?  4 guys, all of whom CAN be at the very least, "Adequate" starting material, and probably non-busts.  And the 3 teams after NE didn't NEED OTs (or they were much further down their positional needs list).  BUT that wasn't the case for Eagles, and then Colts, and then some other team (?), who desperately could have used a good OT, and they started with the Eagles at #20 or #21...  So why not trade down to #19 or #20, and the greater chance is that Pats STILL coulda gotten ANY one of these guys, these OTs...?!!  Even IF they wanted Solder, 99% he'd still be there, or probably 100% and at worst, 3 of these 4 OTs would still be there.  Heck, Us draft people SAW this and STATED this, and the way it was looking, It WAS the actual Case, and it even turned out that ALL of them were there still at #19/#20 of Rd 1!  I don't even care IF Belichick could have gotten some garbage deal, like a 4th or even pathetic deal 5th rder out of this trade...  It just made sense.


    And some of the other guys... Ras I and Vareen.  Lol, I actually LIKE these players...but NOT, in any way, shape, OR form, the spots BB took them at.  And don't say, "Ras I WOULD have been a 1st rder IF he didn't get injured last year," because it does not work like this...it's where they are now, ON draft day itself that matters.  BB could have selected Ras I halfway through Rd 2, ZERO question about it.  With Ras I's injury, the fact that even at his Senior 40 day, the guy pulled his hamstring running it for goodness sake (scarey, right?).  Ras I IS a good CB, but in watching his filmwork, and there's ALOT of good to take away, One CAN also see that some of the things he got away with in College (coverage-wise), he will NOT be able to count on in the Pros (half the time, Ras I seems to be mugging the wideouts).  But again=Good press CB IS what I want...AND a tough as nails one that smashes RBs in the running game.  But the price...THIS is what matters to me (as it should to Belichick).  Halfway through Rd 2, Ras I would have UNDOUBTEDLY have been available.

    Same with Vareen.  NE could have got him with their top 10 pick of Rd 3, not their bottom pick of Rd 2...and this matters.  And good god!!!  The RB in Rd 3, DOES have the ideal in size you want, and that works so incredibly good coupled with NE's zone-blocking O-Line.  But at the start of Rd 3?!?  He was an "Ideal" projection of Rd 5 candidacy...  No WAY do you take him here...ever.

    And these weren't SO god-awful...but boy, it turned disgusting.  CB who didn't start, when NE could have taken a shot at a stud who might have had an injury his Senior Year, but was formerly 1st or early 2nd rd worthy.  THIS is when you target these guys (Greg Romeus, Mark Herzlich).  In rd 4, and rd 5, NE could have and should have, taken 1 of 2 wideouts that had slower 40 times, but who's route trees, football IQs, off-field, on field, etc, were so exceptional (I'm marveled by the way they set up CBs before knowing excatly when to make a first cut, I'm marveled with the way they just know how to alter their routes when a QB is in trouble, Great hands, good size, totally fearless, and exceptional football smarts).  Who?  Greg Salas, OR/and Austin Pettis.  St Louis nabbed them both.  These guys would have thrived under Brady's leadership, and BB's, and in NE's complicated Offfense, built for wideouts that just NEED to know and be on the same page as Brady in getting open (trust in their soft hands, etc., etc.).

    At the end...Here you can target some of those big bodies.  1st, you go O-Line, b/c again=Great value at that needed spot for NE.  1 guy whom I can think of was Andrew Jackson, an OT/OG tweener from Mankins often less heralded school too, I believe...Fresno State.  Finally, you can make a play for something you CAN'T teach, remember?  Size...  David Carter some 6'6 300lb DE/DT out of UCLA would have been available at his targeted/projected draft spot into those later rds, like 6th.  Makes sense...He was hard-working, busted his rear, but just didn't blow up in the college game.  And analysts actually said he was a GOOD player!  Maybe under NE's guidance,it's not such a bad risk-reward investment, to take only a 6th rd gamble on some 6'6 300lb hard-working young DT/DE, that might excell if given the right direction...and only a 6th rder, c'mon.  Here you can and SHOULD do this.

          
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2 : Most of us here focus on the positives, " seeing through rose colored glasses thing ." Others focus on the negative, " the rare people who may call it what it is ." I respect Laz' knowledge of college prospects and he may well be right, however no team gets them right all the time. I think the Patriots will " just do what they normally do ", which is win, win, win.
    Posted by digger0862


    Digger I have to disagree with your statement about, "Others focus on the negative, " the rare people who may call it what it is. People who focus on the negative are no more or less realistic or "calling it what it is", than the people that focus on the positives. That would be the same as saying being negative is reality while being positive is living in a fantasy world when in reality they are both fantasy worlds.
     
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    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    Digger I have to disagree with your statement about, "Others focus on the negative, " the rare people who may call it what it is. People who focus on the negative are no more or less realistic or "calling it what it is", than the people that focus on the positives. That would be the same as saying being negative is reality while being positive is living in a fantasy world when in reality they are both fantasy worlds.
    Posted by rtuinila

    I disagree with that statement as well. The words in blue weren't mine.

    So thinking the Patriots are going to win the next five Super Bowls is a fantasy? I'm crushed!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    Oh man digger, I am a HUGE proponent on trading for future draft picks.  EVERY...Single...Year.  Always.  People bashed that trade with New Orleans at Selection spot #28 in Round 1...  REALLY?!?  I wouldn't care WhoTH was on the Big Board!  Belichick moved down halfway into Rd 2 AND got Orleans 1st Rd pick in 2012.  Jesus, IF the Saints win the d#mn SB and Pats pick at #32 next year, that means NE STILL got an absurdly good deal.  I even went into all of this on a draft thread on draft day itself, by mentioning Both this, and the fact that this 2011 drafft class was shallow on the "Elite" talent part (and very hazy this time around, and by my estimates, these "Elite" types were gonna be off the board anywhere from selection 16-18 to selection (at best, when teams made poor "reaches")- selection 22-maybe 24...   But I'm not talking 1 single bit about trading down, and stockpiling future picks...  And I didn't in my post.  Heck, I wanted to trade down that #33 pick too, and get ideally a very late 2nd rder, and a 3rd rder, or even two 3rd rders, or I'd even have taken a 3rd and a 4th rder, along with a future 2nd or 3rd rder...All doable. I AM tallking about targeting the correct guys for the correct price, selection-wise.  And above ALL else, NO multi-rd "Reaches."  Just see my 1st post above, and compare it to this draft...  Rd 1, you target Guranteed ready to play true talent...And I wanted an OT too.  Imho, NE especially this year, had to start with the trenches, and the OTs were slipping down the board b/c so many 3-4 teams now, and they all want a 3-4 DE/DT.  And even though NE NEEDS this spot ideally as well, OT both takes priority in both need, targetable talent b/c of guys projected to slipping (and they did).  BUT, you target, skilled targetable ready to play talent that was well-proven on the field...AND at the right price (as always).  Not a prospect that got blown up at The Senior Bowl, but has massive upside, but only IF he reaches his true potential (and you pray he does), He'll only be a LOT not both an interchangeable ROT and LOT.  And it just makes sense, to NOT start a guy at Brady's blindside...It'd be ideal getting him and allowing him to get a "feel" for the O-Line next to Mankins on the ROT spot.  NE could have and should have taken Carimi who showed himself to be by far the best ROT, and when and after each and every one of his practices and the senior bowl game itself, Carimi showed that he was far and away a GREAT pass-blocking LOT...better than any other senior OTs there, including Solder.  The fact that they even tried him at OG, and Carimi was superb there, was just added bonus.  But even at 1st rd pick #17, there was who?  Carimi, Solder, Sherrod, and Castonzo still on the board, right?  And ALL of these guys, at worst were very end of 1st rd worthy talent, right?  4 guys, all of whom CAN be at the very least, "Adequate" starting material, and probably non-busts.  And the 3 teams after NE didn't NEED OTs (or they were much further down their positional needs list).  BUT that wasn't the case for Eagles, and then Colts, and then some other team (?), who desperately could have used a good OT, and they started with the Eagles at #20 or #21...  So why not trade down to #19 or #20, and the greater chance is that Pats STILL coulda gotten ANY one of these guys, these OTs...?!!  Even IF they wanted Solder, 99% he'd still be there, or probably 100% and at worst, 3 of these 4 OTs would still be there.  Heck, Us draft people SAW this and STATED this, and the way it was looking, It WAS the actual Case, and it even turned out that ALL of them were there still at #19/#20 of Rd 1!  I don't even care IF Belichick could have gotten some garbage deal, like a 4th or even pathetic deal 5th rder out of this trade...  It just made sense. And some of the other guys... Ras I and Vareen.  Lol, I actually LIKE these players...but NOT, in any way, shape, OR form, the spots BB took them at.  And don't say, "Ras I WOULD have been a 1st rder IF he didn't get injured last year," because it does not work like this...it's where they are now, ON draft day itself that matters.  BB could have selected Ras I halfway through Rd 2, ZERO question about it.  With Ras I's injury, the fact that even at his Senior 40 day, the guy pulled his hamstring running it for goodness sake (scarey, right?).  Ras I IS a good CB, but in watching his filmwork, and there's ALOT of good to take away, One CAN also see that some of the things he got away with in College (coverage-wise), he will NOT be able to count on in the Pros (half the time, Ras I seems to be mugging the wideouts).  But again=Good press CB IS what I want...AND a tough as nails one that smashes RBs in the running game.  But the price...THIS is what matters to me (as it should to Belichick).  Halfway through Rd 2, Ras I would have UNDOUBTEDLY have been available. Same with Vareen.  NE could have got him with their top 10 pick of Rd 3, not their bottom pick of Rd 2...and this matters.  And good god!!!  The RB in Rd 3, DOES have the ideal in size you want, and that works so incredibly good coupled with NE's zone-blocking O-Line.  But at the start of Rd 3?!?  He was an "Ideal" projection of Rd 5 candidacy...  No WAY do you take him here...ever. And these weren't SO god-awful...but boy, it turned disgusting.  CB who didn't start, when NE could have taken a shot at a stud who might have had an injury his Senior Year, but was formerly 1st or early 2nd rd worthy.  THIS is when you target these guys (Greg Romeus, Mark Herzlich).  In rd 4, and rd 5, NE could have and should have, taken 1 of 2 wideouts that had slower 40 times, but who's route trees, football IQs, off-field, on field, etc, were so exceptional (I'm marveled by the way they set up CBs before knowing excatly when to make a first cut, I'm marveled with the way they just know how to alter their routes when a QB is in trouble, Great hands, good size, totally fearless, and exceptional football smarts).  Who?  Greg Salas, OR/and Austin Pettis.  St Louis nabbed them both.  These guys would have thrived under Brady's leadership, and BB's, and in NE's complicated Offfense, built for wideouts that just NEED to know and be on the same page as Brady in getting open (trust in their soft hands, etc., etc.). At the end...Here you can target some of those big bodies.  1st, you go O-Line, b/c again=Great value at that needed spot for NE.  1 guy whom I can think of was Andrew Jackson, an OT/OG tweener from Mankins often less heralded school too, I believe...Fresno State.  Finally, you can make a play for something you CAN'T teach, remember?  Size...  David Carter some 6'6 300lb DE/DT out of UCLA would have been available at his targeted/projected draft spot into those later rds, like 6th.  Makes sense...He was hard-working, busted his rear, but just didn't blow up in the college game.  And analysts actually said he was a GOOD player!  Maybe under NE's guidance,it's not such a bad risk-reward investment, to take only a 6th rd gamble on some 6'6 300lb hard-working young DT/DE, that might excell if given the right direction...and only a 6th rder, c'mon.  Here you can and SHOULD do this.       
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium

    Point taken Laz. Let's hope the rooks prove worthy on the field.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2 : I disagree with that statement as well. The words in blue weren't mine. So thinking the Patriots are going to win the next five Super Bowls is a fantasy? I'm crushed!
    Posted by digger0862


    Sorry Digger, my bad.

    I don't think the Pats will lose anymore Superbowls ever, as long as BB is at the helm, so don't be crushed! Thinking the Pats will win the next five is no more fantasy than thinking they'll lose the next five
     
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    Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2

    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2:
    In Response to Re: Grade Pats draft through Round 2 : Oh man digger, I am a HUGE proponent on trading for future draft picks.  EVERY...Single...Year.  Always.  People bashed that trade with New Orleans at Selection spot #28 in Round 1...  REALLY?!?  I wouldn't care WhoTH was on the Big Board!  Belichick moved down halfway into Rd 2 AND got Orleans 1st Rd pick in 2012.  Jesus, IF the Saints win the d#mn SB and Pats pick at #32 next year, that means NE STILL got an absurdly good deal.  I even went into all of this on a draft thread on draft day itself, by mentioning Both this, and the fact that this 2011 drafft class was shallow on the "Elite" talent part (and very hazy this time around, and by my estimates, these "Elite" types were gonna be off the board anywhere from selection 16-18 to selection (at best, when teams made poor "reaches")- selection 22-maybe 24...   But I'm not talking 1 single bit about trading down, and stockpiling future picks...  And I didn't in my post.  Heck, I wanted to trade down that #33 pick too, and get ideally a very late 2nd rder, and a 3rd rder, or even two 3rd rders, or I'd even have taken a 3rd and a 4th rder, along with a future 2nd or 3rd rder...All doable. I AM tallking about targeting the correct guys for the correct price, selection-wise.  And above ALL else, NO multi-rd "Reaches."  Just see my 1st post above, and compare it to this draft...  Rd 1, you target Guranteed ready to play true talent...And I wanted an OT too.  Imho, NE especially this year, had to start with the trenches, and the OTs were slipping down the board b/c so many 3-4 teams now, and they all want a 3-4 DE/DT.  And even though NE NEEDS this spot ideally as well, OT both takes priority in both need, targetable talent b/c of guys projected to slipping (and they did).  BUT, you target, skilled targetable ready to play talent that was well-proven on the field...AND at the right price (as always).  Not a prospect that got blown up at The Senior Bowl, but has massive upside, but only IF he reaches his true potential (and you pray he does), He'll only be a LOT not both an interchangeable ROT and LOT.  And it just makes sense, to NOT start a guy at Brady's blindside...It'd be ideal getting him and allowing him to get a "feel" for the O-Line next to Mankins on the ROT spot.  NE could have and should have taken Carimi who showed himself to be by far the best ROT, and when and after each and every one of his practices and the senior bowl game itself, Carimi showed that he was far and away a GREAT pass-blocking LOT...better than any other senior OTs there, including Solder.  The fact that they even tried him at OG, and Carimi was superb there, was just added bonus.  But even at 1st rd pick #17, there was who?  Carimi, Solder, Sherrod, and Castonzo still on the board, right?  And ALL of these guys, at worst were very end of 1st rd worthy talent, right?  4 guys, all of whom CAN be at the very least, "Adequate" starting material, and probably non-busts.  And the 3 teams after NE didn't NEED OTs (or they were much further down their positional needs list).  BUT that wasn't the case for Eagles, and then Colts, and then some other team (?), who desperately could have used a good OT, and they started with the Eagles at #20 or #21...  So why not trade down to #19 or #20, and the greater chance is that Pats STILL coulda gotten ANY one of these guys, these OTs...?!!  Even IF they wanted Solder, 99% he'd still be there, or probably 100% and at worst, 3 of these 4 OTs would still be there.  Heck, Us draft people SAW this and STATED this, and the way it was looking, It WAS the actual Case, and it even turned out that ALL of them were there still at #19/#20 of Rd 1!  I don't even care IF Belichick could have gotten some garbage deal, like a 4th or even pathetic deal 5th rder out of this trade...  It just made sense. And some of the other guys... Ras I and Vareen.  Lol, I actually LIKE these players...but NOT, in any way, shape, OR form, the spots BB took them at.  And don't say, "Ras I WOULD have been a 1st rder IF he didn't get injured last year," because it does not work like this...it's where they are now, ON draft day itself that matters.  BB could have selected Ras I halfway through Rd 2, ZERO question about it.  With Ras I's injury, the fact that even at his Senior 40 day, the guy pulled his hamstring running it for goodness sake (scarey, right?).  Ras I IS a good CB, but in watching his filmwork, and there's ALOT of good to take away, One CAN also see that some of the things he got away with in College (coverage-wise), he will NOT be able to count on in the Pros (half the time, Ras I seems to be mugging the wideouts).  But again=Good press CB IS what I want...AND a tough as nails one that smashes RBs in the running game.  But the price...THIS is what matters to me (as it should to Belichick).  Halfway through Rd 2, Ras I would have UNDOUBTEDLY have been available. Same with Vareen.  NE could have got him with their top 10 pick of Rd 3, not their bottom pick of Rd 2...and this matters.  And good god!!!  The RB in Rd 3, DOES have the ideal in size you want, and that works so incredibly good coupled with NE's zone-blocking O-Line.  But at the start of Rd 3?!?  He was an "Ideal" projection of Rd 5 candidacy...  No WAY do you take him here...ever. And these weren't SO god-awful...but boy, it turned disgusting.  CB who didn't start, when NE could have taken a shot at a stud who might have had an injury his Senior Year, but was formerly 1st or early 2nd rd worthy.  THIS is when you target these guys (Greg Romeus, Mark Herzlich).  In rd 4, and rd 5, NE could have and should have, taken 1 of 2 wideouts that had slower 40 times, but who's route trees, football IQs, off-field, on field, etc, were so exceptional (I'm marveled by the way they set up CBs before knowing excatly when to make a first cut, I'm marveled with the way they just know how to alter their routes when a QB is in trouble, Great hands, good size, totally fearless, and exceptional football smarts).  Who?  Greg Salas, OR/and Austin Pettis.  St Louis nabbed them both.  These guys would have thrived under Brady's leadership, and BB's, and in NE's complicated Offfense, built for wideouts that just NEED to know and be on the same page as Brady in getting open (trust in their soft hands, etc., etc.). At the end...Here you can target some of those big bodies.  1st, you go O-Line, b/c again=Great value at that needed spot for NE.  1 guy whom I can think of was Andrew Jackson, an OT/OG tweener from Mankins often less heralded school too, I believe...Fresno State.  Finally, you can make a play for something you CAN'T teach, remember?  Size...  David Carter some 6'6 300lb DE/DT out of UCLA would have been available at his targeted/projected draft spot into those later rds, like 6th.  Makes sense...He was hard-working, busted his rear, but just didn't blow up in the college game.  And analysts actually said he was a GOOD player!  Maybe under NE's guidance,it's not such a bad risk-reward investment, to take only a 6th rd gamble on some 6'6 300lb hard-working young DT/DE, that might excell if given the right direction...and only a 6th rder, c'mon.  Here you can and SHOULD do this.       
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium


    thanks for the breakdown laz,
     i was thinking similarly on romeus, petis, salas.
    thanks for tips on david carter and andrew jackson.
    goes to show you its good to have people who have as many good ideas/strategy as you do, and who is not afraid to bring them as part of the drafting team. bill should request at least someone with equal weight in player aquisition/gm. it would make him better and the team better.
     
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