Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

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    Posted by TexasPat3


    I think it's a bit premature to be labeling anybody who was a rookie last year as a bust just yet.  Not many are impact players out of the gate.  How long did it take Meriweather to figure it out?  It's a tough position from a mental standpoint and I think Chung will still develop.  I'm not ready to stick a fork in Brace yet either.  Although I don't think he will be making any Pro Bowls any time soon, he could become a useful backup if the light switch goes off. 
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : Mb, I couldn't have said it better myself.  You and I agree on this, adding Spike was HUGE.  Not only will he do those things, he will from day 1 be a leader in that locker room and on the field.  He plays with inspiring passion.  We (you and I) talked about this so much over the last few months only dreaming we'd hear his name called by the Pats on draft day.  When it happened at 62, I was shocked, then let out a "yeah baby!"  The new Bruschi is here.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,
    Thanks!  Yessir we did and damn I was happy when I heard his name called!  Assuming he stays healthy, I'll say hes the leader (or one of their main leaders) of the defense within 3 years.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    @TP3 Well, now you know why I vehemently disagree with your assesment, and I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I was surprised by your comments on Pat Chung.  Chung finished 18th in tackles among all rookies last year, and while that's not setting the world on fire, I certainly can't see him as a bust  (35 Tkls/25 solo, 2 Sks, 1 Int).  It will take him time to learn to be effective in our very complex system. Anyway, I very much hope I'm right and you are wrong on this one.
    Posted by USMCM1A1


         From what I've seen of Chung, he was fair in run support. But, he was awful in pass coverage...and very disappointing as a kick returner. Unless he drastically improves, he's a major bust. He has showed little to justify his being selected with the 34th overall pick, last year. 
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : The Pats got value, what are you kidding me? The Pats got Taylor Price at 90.  I had him ranked at 71

    RESPONSE: The Pats went against what they normally do...draft players only from the major conferences...with Price. The kid is extremely raw, and was taken at the tail end of a run on WRs. He may have been ranked high...but, from what I've read on the guy...he's a reach. 

    They got Mesko at 150.

    RESPONSE: I liked this pick. The Pats desperately needed to upgrade their punting. 

    They also got CAR 2011 2nd round pick (which should be a high one since they lost Peppers and Delhomme).  All of this cost them nothing more than moving down a few slots here and there.  Tremendous value if you ask me.
     
    RESPONSE: True...but the value of that pick is somewhat watered down by the fact that 2011 should be a weak draft.

    Another value pick was Hernandez at 113, I had him ranked at 46.
     
    RESPONSE: Yes...but that was before you learned about his taste for weed. Doesn't that give you pause? 

    I had McCourty at 30, they got him at 27 and they got Gronkowski at 42, right were I had him.

    RESPONSE: Since the Asante Samuel selection in 2003, the Pats have done an awful job in drafting to upgrade their secondary (see the Cold, Hard Football Facts article, posted above). The question on Gronk is, "can he stay healthy"? Teams will be painting a bulls-eye on his back.

    Before Spikes ran the 40 I had him ranked at 40 and we got him at 62.  I think he will play better than that.
     
    RESPONSE: Had it not been for that OG-slow 40, Spikes might have been selected in the first round. The NFL is all about speed, and power. Running that slow ensures that Spikes won't be able to cover NFL RBs or slot receivers...reducing him to a two down player at best.

    The only reach I saw and agree with you on was Cunningham.  I was disappointed we didn't get a RB or a higher rated WR but I love the Price pick.  He was a guy I was talking about for 119 then he shot up the boards.  I think he will surprise people.
     
    RESPONSE: Apparently, we agree on Cunningham. If Price was so good, why were so many less highly rated WRs taken ahead of him?

    This was a great draft and a surprising draft because I thought BB would draft from the lines out and he did the opposite.
     
    RESPONSE: How does this draft qualify as great, when BB failed to adequately address DE (remember that BB was forced to move Vince Wilfolk out there?), pass-rushing OLB, OL, WR (you know my thoughts on Price), and RB?   

    The Jets to me get a C- and that's giving them credit for spending a 5th on Holmes.  To walk away with only 4 picks in the deepest draft of the last 30 years is sad.

    RESPONSE: Was it "sad" in 2007, when the Pats traded away most of their draft choices to obtain Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and a #1 draft pick in 2008 (Jerod Mayo)? Was it "sad" for the Jets in 2007, when they traded away most of their draft to land CB Darrelle Revis, RB Thomas Jones, and ILB David Harris?  

    We essentially had four 2nd round picks counting the late first.  If you add Hernandez a second round talent we got 5.  The depth in this draft was the 2nd round.

    RESPONSE: The Pats had four 2nd rounders last year, too. Two of then, Patrick Chung (taken 34th overall), and Ron Brace (taken 40th overall after a trade-up) appear to be busts. Its' not the quantity of the picks that count!!! It's how those picks are used!!!

    The top 50 players or so are first round graded and we loaded up without spending big money.

    RESPONSE: The same types of things were said about last years' second rounders.

    Even our 7th rounders are 4th round talents most years.
     
    RESPONSE: Save for Julian Edleman, the Pats selections in the late rounds have been complete wastes, since 2005.

    Sorry, I'm not impressed with much the Jets did this off season.  Some of these moves will backfire on them, wait and see.  The Dophins on the other hand worry me more.  Their defense got really good and Marshall with help that offense.  Still everything considered, if Brady stays healthy, the Pats win the AFC East again.

    RESPONSE: I like your optimism, and hope you're right. But, I believe that you need need to temper your enthusiasm, and try to be more objective.

    Posted by Faucetman

     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    Texas, in regards to "RESPONSE: True...but the value of that pick is somewhat watered down by the fact that 2011 should be a weak draft."

    I know many people here are saying that.  I think the people failed to look at the next class and how many juniors actually came out this year.
    Next year has more elite players than this year.  The RB and WR crop has much more top end talent than this year.  The DE's are more solid and experienced.  The QB talent is head and shoulders above this year.  The best CB's (top 2) are both rated higher than Haden.  Yes the draft is not nearly as deep as this year, but that 2nd rd pick is still a big value area. 

    Not to mention I am predicting early that BB will trade a 2nd into the following year's first.  Why, value and so that when he finally decides that TB is near the end and he can safely draft his replacement, we will have the ammo to move up and grab that franchise QB to learn under TB for a year or 2.  So lets say our high 2nd for a 4th and next year 2012 1st?
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    Texas, in regards to " RESPONSE: True...but the value of that pick is somewhat watered down by the fact that 2011 should be a weak draft." I know many people here are saying that.  I think the people failed to look at the next class and how many juniors actually came out this year. Next year has more elite players than this year.  The RB and WR crop has much more top end talent than this year.  The DE's are more solid and experienced.  The QB talent is head and shoulders above this year.  The best CB's (top 2) are both rated higher than Haden.  Yes the draft is not nearly as deep as this year, but that 2nd rd pick is still a big value area.  Not to mention I am predicting early that BB will trade a 2nd into the following year's first.  Why, value and so that when he finally decides that TB is near the end and he can safely draft his replacement, we will have the ammo to move up and grab that franchise QB to learn under TB for a year or 2.  So lets say our high 2nd for a 4th and next year 2012 1st?
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    It's not out of the realm of possibility for BB to spend a 2011 1st rounder on TB's successor if someone they like is available.

    It's early, but there are probably 5 or 6 kids that I'll be monitoring this year that possess 1st round potential.

    Jake Locker- QB (6-3 226) Washington

    Ryan Mallet- QB (6-6 238) Arkansas (red-shirt junior)

    Andrew Luck- QB (6-4 235) Stanford (red-shirt sophmore)

    John Brantley- QB (6-3 218) Florida (junior)
    Christian Ponder- QB (6-3 218) FSU
    Blaine Gabbert- QB (6-5 240) Missouri (junior)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

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    RESPONSE: The Pats had four 2nd rounders last year, too. Two of then, Patrick Chung (taken 34th overall), and Ron Brace (taken 40th overall after a trade-up) appear to be busts. Its' not the quantity of the picks that count!!! It's how those picks are used!!!

    The top 50 players or so are first round graded and we loaded up without spending big money.

    RESPONSE: The same types of things were said about last years' second rounders.

    Posted by TexasPat3



    Even assuming (which I do not) that Chung and Brace are busts.  That means they got two good football players in the 2nd round.  As you've said over and over, it's quality not quantity that counts.  That alone makes that draft a good one then, right?  This is not mention Edelman, Ingram and Pryor who contributed positively last year, or the fact that the entire draft class of 12 is still on the roster.  Even if one third of that class become keepers (which is the worst case considering five of the 12 played significantly last year), that's a good draft.

    You can't do anything about crappy picks in prior years.  But that has nothing to do with 2009 or this current draft.  In my view, things have gotten markedly better since Pioli left.  Perhaps that's just a coincidence, I don't know...
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    TP3, I like a good debate.  My response to yours in red.

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : The Pats got value, what are you kidding me? The Pats got Taylor Price at 90.  I had him ranked at 71

    RESPONSE: The Pats went against what they normally do...draft players only from the major conferences...with Price. The kid is extremely raw, and was taken at the tail end of a run on WRs. He may have been ranked high...but, from what I've read on the guy...he's a reach. 

    I don't think he's a reach.  That would mean we took him higher than where he was rated.  We took him at 90.  CBS had him at 86, Ace at 74.  I had him at 71 based on his measureables, 6-1, 204, 4.40, his production (in a poor offense) and his intangibles - hard worker, student of the game.  I had him as the 11th ranked WR and he was the 12th taken.  So, a reach - no.  A project, perhaps. 

    Yes, a run on WRs was on.  From 77 to 89, SEVEN WRs were taken including several I liked way better than Price; guys like Shipley, Decker, Roberts and Sanders.  We were smart to take Price when we did because he wouldn't have lasted to 113.  I would have rather taken a shot at Everson Griffen or Bruce Campbell at that spot but the Pats must have felt the enormous drop for both players were justified.  For a late 3rd round pick, Price is a good reward/risk pick.

    They got Mesko at 150.

    RESPONSE: I liked this pick. The Pats desperately needed to upgrade their punting. 

    They also got CAR 2011 2nd round pick (which should be a high one since they lost Peppers and Delhomme).  All of this cost them nothing more than moving down a few slots here and there.  Tremendous value if you ask me.
     
    RESPONSE: True...but the value of that pick is somewhat watered down by the fact that 2011 should be a weak draft. 

    True but it was still good value because it was basically free.  Maybe we'll package it to move higher in the first.

    Another value pick was Hernandez at 113, I had him ranked at 46.
     
    RESPONSE: Yes...but that was before you learned about his taste for weed. Doesn't that give you pause? 

    In the second round where his talent was rated, yes but not in the middle of the 4th round.  The kid was beaten up by the press and obviously feels he has something to prove as evidenced my his refusal to talk to the press following mini camp.  You can cut a 4th round pick without much pain compared to a 2nd round pick (like Brace - who I'm stating will end up being a bust).  I'm sure BB did his homework on this kid talking to Meyer and also likely grilling Tebow about his team mates. 

    I think you will be pleasantly surprised how good this kid will do for us.  Our division foes have all spent enormous resources building great secondaries to stop our air attack.  They can now all shut down our deep threat in Moss.  So what do we do?  We get a couple of big time TEs.  One that is 6-6 and runs like a RB with the wing span of a 727 and the other who is a WR in a TEs body.  We can now out physical the Revis' and Vontae Davis' of our division.


    I had McCourty at 30, they got him at 27 and they got Gronkowski at 42, right were I had him.

    RESPONSE: Since the Asante Samuel selection in 2003, the Pats have done an awful job in drafting to upgrade their secondary (see the Cold, Hard Football Facts article, posted above). The question on Gronk is, "can he stay healthy"? Teams will be painting a bulls-eye on his back.

    Those are ligitimate points and I don't disagree.  I was one screaming that we pay Samuel.  We haven't been the same since.  It isn't our pass rush per se, its our lack of coverage sacks we used to get.  Vrabel didn't go from 12 sacks in 2007 to 4 in 2008 because he aged that much in one year.  We lost Samuel, Wilson and Gay after the '07 season.  I have the same concern about Gronk's back.  You can bet the Pats did a complete medical on him and must be satisfied.  They also thought BAL was going to take him so they moved up, so that's two ELITE teams willing to take a shot on him.  Without the back issue, he goes ahead of Gresham in the mid 1st.  Mayock said when the pick was announced, "The Patriots just stole a first round talent at pick 42."

    Before Spikes ran the 40 I had him ranked at 40 and we got him at 62.  I think he will play better than that.
     
    RESPONSE: Had it not been for that OG-slow 40, Spikes might have been selected in the first round. The NFL is all about speed, and power. Running that slow ensures that Spikes won't be able to cover NFL RBs or slot receivers...reducing him to a two down player at best.

    For sure.  I think Spikes is more likely a 4.85 guy.  He looked to have slipped at the start of his 40 at his pro day then acted like he tweaked a hammy or something on the 2nd run then didn't run again.  All the stories from the Rookie camp rave about his instincts, being half a step ahead of the play.  Even if he's a two down player, if he can stuff the run (a big problem we had with Guyton there), it's a nice pick.

    The only reach I saw and agree with you on was Cunningham.  I was disappointed we didn't get a RB or a higher rated WR but I love the Price pick.  He was a guy I was talking about for 119 then he shot up the boards.  I think he will surprise people.
     
    RESPONSE: Apparently, we agree on Cunningham. If Price was so good, why were so many less highly rated WRs taken ahead of him?

    Only 1 WR who I had rated behind Price went ahead of him and that was Armanti Edwards at 89 to CAR one pick ahead of Price.  If you want to talk about a reach, that's your reach.  I had Edwards as the 20th best WR at 165 and from an even smaller program, Appalacian State.
     
    This was a great draft and a surprising draft because I thought BB would draft from the lines out and he did the opposite.
     
    RESPONSE: How does this draft qualify as great, when BB failed to adequately address DE (remember that BB was forced to move Vince Wilfolk out there?), pass-rushing OLB, OL, WR (you know my thoughts on Price), and RB?   

    I would have taken Odrick at 27 instead of McCourty.  But BB was likely frustrated at having no kick return game and with Welker on the shelf, having no punter return game this year.  He was also frustrated at not being able to get off the field on 3rd and anything.  Couple that with not getting pressure on the QB (no coverage sacks) he went with McCourty.

    As for DE.  He brought in Lewis and Warren and drafted Deaderick who played 34 DE.  I guess he thinks these guys can do the job certainly better than Jarvis Green as the numbers would suggest.  I too was frustrated we didn't make a play for Hardesty, Tate or Gerhardt.  I would have preferred any of them over Cunningham.  BB must feel he can get another year out of those tired 3 horses.  But as I pointed out on another post we are about $15MM below the 2009 cap so I would think another player or two could be added.  I'd take a shot at Westbrook for the right money.

    The biggest reason this draft was great is that we landed 4 players in the top 62 when most teams got 2 and we added two more players with 7.2 or higher grades giving us SIX PLAYERS WHO GRADED HIGHER THAN 7.2.  IN THE DEEPEST DRAFT IN DECADES NOBODY HAD MORE PICKS.

    The Jets to me get a C- and that's giving them credit for spending a 5th on Holmes.  To walk away with only 4 picks in the deepest draft of the last 30 years is sad.

    RESPONSE: Was it "sad" in 2007, when the Pats traded away most of their draft choices to obtain Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and a #1 draft pick in 2008 (Jerod Mayo)? Was it "sad" for the Jets in 2007, when they traded away most of their draft to land CB Darrelle Revis, RB Thomas Jones, and ILB David Harris?  

    The Jets struck gold with Revis, no doubt about it and apparently with Sanchez.  Both were bold moves that paid off.  They also blundered big time at #6 with Gholston.  I think they blundered again letting Jones walk in favor of LT who is putting on the 18th green.  At least with Moss we were getting a player who wasn't starting the year on suspension.  The Welker move will go down in history as one of the greatest 2nd round trades.  I don't think Cromartie or Holmes will have nearly the impact.

    The Jet's off season moves with guys like LT and Taylor were plugging holes, not addressing the future.  They missed out in the deepest draft of 2 generations by coming away with only 4 picks, 2 of which have bust written all over them in McKnight and Ducasse.

    We essentially had four 2nd round picks counting the late first.  If you add Hernandez a second round talent we got 5.  The depth in this draft was the 2nd round.

    RESPONSE: The Pats had four 2nd rounders last year, too. Two of then, Patrick Chung (taken 34th overall), and Ron Brace (taken 40th overall after a trade-up) appear to be busts. Its' not the quantity of the picks that count!!! It's how those picks are used!!!

    I am critcal of the Brace pick.  I didn't like him in the 3rd round last year and we took him in the high 2nd.  Agreed on that.  Chung I had as a late 2nd, early 3rd and we took him at the top of the 2nd.  That was a reach IMO.  We could've had Maualuga at 34 and not needed Spikes this year.  I'm not ready to call Chung a bust yet but I agree they didn't do great last year.  This year the only pick that troubles me is Cunningham.  I hope BB is right about him but the rest of the picks all 11 of them I loved.

    The top 50 players or so are first round graded and we loaded up without spending big money.

    RESPONSE: The same types of things were said about last years' second rounders.

    Even our 7th rounders are 4th round talents most years.
     
    RESPONSE: Save for Julian Edleman, the Pats selections in the late rounds have been complete wastes, since 2005.

    Pryor was a solid pick in the 6th last year.  Hey, I'm not disagreeing on past drafts.  I thought we missed out on a lot of talent and blew a lot of picks.  I feel differently about this year.  Maybe losing Pioli was a good move.

    Sorry, I'm not impressed with much the Jets did this off season.  Some of these moves will backfire on them, wait and see.  The Dophins on the other hand worry me more.  Their defense got really good and Marshall with help that offense.  Still everything considered, if Brady stays healthy, the Pats win the AFC East again.

    RESPONSE: I like your optimism, and hope you're right. But, I believe that you need need to temper your enthusiasm, and try to be more objective.

    Thanks dad.  Nah, I'm going to stay pumped because unlike years past I'm sold on these picks and actually took 9 of the 12 in my various mocks.  A++ draft for me until the season starts and I'm proven wrong.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : Even assuming (which I do not) that Chung and Brace are busts.  That means they got two good football players in the 2nd round.  As you've said over and over, it's quality not quantity that counts.  That alone makes that draft a good one then, right?

    RESPONSE: No!! Neither Butler or Vollmer could be said to be impact players, or immediate starters...such as Jerod Mayo, or the Jets' Revis and Harris. Frankly, if not for the great promise shown by Vollmer, the 2009 draft class would be a disaster. 

    This is not mention Edelman, Ingram and Pryor who contributed positively last year, or the fact that the entire draft class of 12 is still on the roster.

    RESPONSE: Big deal. They're reserves. Edleman showed some promise to eventually start, Ingram is just a long snapper, and Pryor will be constantly fighting to keep his roster spot throughout his career. 

    Even if one third of that class become keepers (which is the worst case considering five of the 12 played significantly last year), that's a good draft.
     
    RESPONSE: I completely disagree. Draft choices have the inside track to make a roster...because coaches want a chance to coach these players up...and because it makes management look good to koolaid drinking fans when the rookies make the roster. What makes a draft good, or great has to do with how many starters/pro-bowlers emerge from that draft...not how many rookies make the team.   

    You can't do anything about crappy picks in prior years.  But that has nothing to do with 2009 or this current draft.

    RESPONSE: I completely disagree. When a RB fumbles and performs poorly, he's released...and someone new is brought in, who will hopefully do a better job. The same should be true for the Patriots' scouting and personnel department. Too many "crappy picks" will destroy a team...and should lead to wholesale changes.

    In my view, things have gotten markedly better since Pioli left.  Perhaps that's just a coincidence, I don't know...

    RESPONSE: How so? Was passing up immediate starters, and potential pro-bowl players such as OT Michael Oher, and pass-rushing OLB, Clay Matthews, a good decision? Was taking that stiff, Patrick Chung, with the 34th overall pick, a wise move? How 'bout moving up to select that rumbling tub of lard, Ron Brace, at pick #40? 
    Posted by Muzwell


         Muz...I love the Pats, and I hope that my comments above are wrong. I was sickened by what I saw last year in the playoffs...and I'm tired of of seeing the Pats lose to the hated Indianapolis Colts. I see poor drafting as a major culprit.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    Texas, in regards to " RESPONSE: True...but the value of that pick is somewhat watered down by the fact that 2011 should be a weak draft." I know many people here are saying that.  I think the people failed to look at the next class and how many juniors actually came out this year. Next year has more elite players than this year.  The RB and WR crop has much more top end talent than this year.  The DE's are more solid and experienced.  The QB talent is head and shoulders above this year.  The best CB's (top 2) are both rated higher than Haden.  Yes the draft is not nearly as deep as this year, but that 2nd rd pick is still a big value area.  Not to mention I am predicting early that BB will trade a 2nd into the following year's first.  Why, value and so that when he finally decides that TB is near the end and he can safely draft his replacement, we will have the ammo to move up and grab that franchise QB to learn under TB for a year or 2.  So lets say our high 2nd for a 4th and next year 2012 1st?
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


         Good point about BB trading a 2011 second rounder for a #1 in 2012...or, perhaps, for a 3rd in 2011, plus a 2nd and a 3rd in 2012. But Mordy...the Patriots need to start cashing in on all those picks. Poor drafting is killing them.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    I think the majority of us see the 2005 draft as the last good Belichick/Piolo draft, and the 2006-2008 drafts as pretty terrible (which I would grade as C-, F, and D- in order), and the 2009 draft as fantastic (thanks for you folks who pointed out Ingam--I forgot about him).  Our last draft produced six contributors, and likely two starters this year, and I have equally high hopes for this years draft.

    The past is past, and whether it is coincidence or not, since Pioli left, our last two drafts have been serious upticks.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft
    TP3, I like a good debate.  My response to yours in red. In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : The Pats got value, what are you kidding me? The Pats got Taylor Price at 90.  I had him ranked at 71...I don't think he's a reach.  That would mean we took him higher than where he was rated.  We took him at 90.  CBS had him at 86, Ace at 74.  I had him at 71 based on his measureables, 6-1, 204, 4.40, his production (in a poor offense) and his intangibles - hard worker, student of the game.  I had him as the 11th ranked WR and he was the 12th taken.  So, a reach - no.  A project, perhaps.  Yes, a run on WRs was on.  From 77 to 89, SEVEN WRs were taken including several I liked way better than Price; guys like Shipley, Decker, Roberts and Sanders.  We were smart to take Price when we did because he wouldn't have lasted to 113.  I would have rather taken a shot at Everson Griffen or Bruce Campbell at that spot but the Pats must have felt the enormous drop for both players were justified.  For a late 3rd round pick, Price is a good reward/risk pick.

    RESPONSE: OurLads Scouting Services listed Price as "a 4th or 5th round pick", basically because he's so raw. Mel Kiper had him ranked much higher...ahead of Golden Tate, and Roberts. You seem to agree with me that Everson Griffen, Bruce Campbell, and I would add Mardy Guilyard, would have been better choices with the 90th pick. I liked Guilyard better because he could help fill in for Welker, played against far better competition, was a one-man-gang in leading a comeback win on the road against Pitt in the Big East title game, and would have an instant impact as a kick returner...something the Patriots badly need.

    RESPONSE: Zoltan at #150...I liked this pick. The Pats desperately needed to upgrade their punting.  They also got CAR 2011 2nd round pick (which should be a high one since they lost Peppers and Delhomme).  All of this cost them nothing more than moving down a few slots here and there.  Tremendous value if you ask me...it was basically free.  Maybe we'll package it to move higher in the first.
     
    RESPONSE: I too liked the selection of "Zoltan the Magnificent" at #150. Getting the Panthers' 2nd rounder in 2011 was not free...it cost the Pats the 89th overall pick...which they could have used on Griffen or Campbell. But, that appears to have been a good move. My problem isn't with the way the Pats are manipulating the draft board. My problem is how they've been using their picks since 2005. With the exception of 2007, they've done a terrible job. That is why the team is in decline.

    Another value pick was Hernandez at 113, I had him ranked at 46...(got him) in the second round where his talent was rated, yes but not in the middle of the 4th round.  The kid was beaten up by the press and obviously feels he has something to prove as evidenced my his refusal to talk to the press following mini camp.  You can cut a 4th round pick without much pain compared to a 2nd round pick (like Brace - who I'm stating will end up being a bust).  I'm sure BB did his homework on this kid talking to Meyer and also likely grilling Tebow about his team mates.  I think you will be pleasantly surprised how good this kid will do for us.  Our division foes have all spent enormous resources building great secondaries to stop our air attack.  They can now all shut down our deep threat in Moss.  So what do we do?  We get a couple of big time TEs.  One that is 6-6 and runs like a RB with the wing span of a 727 and the other who is a WR in a TEs body.

    RESPONSE: An H-back and a good, but injury prone TE, will not free up Moss...especially with Welker gone.  

    We can now out physical the Revis' and Vontae Davis' of our division. I had McCourty at 30, they got him at 27 and they got Gronkowski at 42, right were I had him...(the points you brought up regarding Gronk, and McCourtey)...are ligitimate points and I don't disagree.  I was one screaming that we pay Samuel.  We haven't been the same since.  It isn't our pass rush per se, its our lack of coverage sacks we used to get.  Vrabel didn't go from 12 sacks in 2007 to 4 in 2008 because he aged that much in one year.  We lost Samuel, Wilson and Gay after the '07 season.  I have the same concern about Gronk's back.  You can bet the Pats did a complete medical on him and must be satisfied.  They also thought BAL was going to take him so they moved up, so that's two ELITE teams willing to take a shot on him.  Without the back issue, he goes ahead of Gresham in the mid 1st.  Mayock said when the pick was announced, "The Patriots just stole a first round talent at pick 42."
     
    RESPONSE: There wasn't a pass-rusher available in the 20s that would have trumped a good CB. Sergio Kindle had the bad knee. Because of his back, Gronk could turn out to be another Jeremy Shockey. Don't have any complaints on the McCourtey pick, right now. But, this kid had better develop into a dependable starter...or else heads should roll in the scouting department. 

    Before Spikes ran the 40 I had him ranked at 40 and we got him at 62.  I think he will play better than that...Spikes is more likely a 4.85 guy.  He looked to have slipped at the start of his 40 at his pro day then acted like he tweaked a hammy or something on the 2nd run then didn't run again.  All the stories from the Rookie camp rave about his instincts, being half a step ahead of the play.  Even if he's a two down player, if he can stuff the run (a big problem we had with Guyton there), it's a nice pick.
     
    RESPONSE: Don't have many complaints about the Spikes pick. Ever since Rodney left, the Pats have sorely lacked an intimidator. Spikes could be that guy. In a previous post above, I cited the numerous leg injuries that Spikes dealt with into 2009...including a pulled groin. Those injuries might have negatively affected his ability to run a 40.  

    The only reach I saw and agree with you on was Cunningham.  I was disappointed we didn't get a RB or a higher rated WR but I love the Price pick.  He was a guy I was talking about for 119 then he shot up the boards.  I think he will surprise people...Only 1 WR who I had rated behind Price went ahead of him and that was Armanti Edwards at 89 to CAR one pick ahead of Price.  If you want to talk about a reach, that's your reach.  I had Edwards as the 20th best WR at 165 and from an even smaller program, Appalacian State.   This was a great draft and a surprising draft because I thought BB would draft from the lines out and he did the opposite.
     
    RESPONSE: I've made my position clear on the Price pick. Again, why does failing to adequately address the problems at DE, pass-rushing OLB, OL, WR, and RB, lead you to believe that this was a great draft...and that the Pats will be appreciably better in 2010?  

    I would have taken Odrick at 27 instead of McCourty.  But BB was likely frustrated at having no kick return game and with Welker on the shelf, having no punter return game this year.  He was also frustrated at not being able to get off the field on 3rd and anything.  Couple that with not getting pressure on the QB (no coverage sacks) he went with McCourty. As for DE.  He brought in Lewis and Warren and drafted Deaderick who played 34 DE.  I guess he thinks these guys can do the job certainly better than Jarvis Green as the numbers would suggest.  I too was frustrated we didn't make a play for Hardesty, Tate or Gerhardt.  I would have preferred any of them over Cunningham.  BB must feel he can get another year out of those tired 3 horses.

    RESPONSE: So...with still no replacement at DE for Seymour...with no immediate improvement at pass-rushing OLB, no Welker, the same ol' mediocre OL, and with the same old and tired RBs...how are the Pats appreciably better than in 2009?  

    But as I pointed out on another post we are about $15MM below the 2009 cap so I would think another player or two could be added.  I'd take a shot at Westbrook for the right money.
     
    RESPONSE: Talk about old and tired...why add Westbrook? Isn't he, at this stage of his career, a Kevin Faulk clone at best?

    The biggest reason this draft was great is that we landed 4 players in the top 62 when most teams got 2 and we added two more players with 7.2 or higher grades giving us SIX PLAYERS WHO GRADED HIGHER THAN 7.2.  IN THE DEEPEST DRAFT IN DECADES NOBODY HAD MORE PICKS.

    RESPONSE: Again...what difference does it make where the players are drafted, or how many picks a team accumulates...if they are constantly using those picks to select players who can't play? 

    The Jets struck gold with Revis, no doubt about it and apparently with Sanchez.  Both were bold moves that paid off.  They also blundered big time at #6 with Gholston.  I think they blundered again letting Jones walk in favor of LT who is putting on the 18th green.

    RESPONSE: I agree with you on LT. His whine is now much louder than his bark.

    At least with Moss we were getting a player who wasn't starting the year on suspension.

    RESPONSE: Come on, now. The Jets picked up a pro-bowl caliber WR, for next to nothing. His addition can only make their team better.

    The Welker move will go down in history as one of the greatest 2nd round trades.

    RESPONSE: No...it will go down as one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history...if Welker can return at 100%.

    I don't think Cromartie or Holmes will have nearly the impact.
     
    RESPONSE: Perhaps. But, so what? Their additions certainly have made the Jets a better team.

    The Jet's off season moves with guys like LT and Taylor were plugging holes, not addressing the future.

    RESPONSE: What's wrong with plugging holes? Weren't not discussing whether the 2015 Jets will be better than the 2015 Pats. We're discussing which team may be better next season. 

    I am critcal of the Brace pick.  I didn't like him in the 3rd round last year and we took him in the high 2nd.  Agreed on that.  Chung I had as a late 2nd, early 3rd and we took him at the top of the 2nd.  That was a reach IMO.  We could've had Maualuga at 34 and not needed Spikes this year.

    RESPONSE: The Pats could have taken Clay Matthews at #26, last year. But instead, they chose to move down, for GB's 41st, 73rd, and 83rd picks. With those, they used pick #41 to select CB Darrius Butler, pick #73 was traded to Jacksonville for the Jag's 2010 2nd rounder (which they traded as part of the Gronk trade), and the 83rd pick, used to select seriously WR, Brandon Tate.  Next, Patrick Chung was supposedly listed as the top player available on their board at #34 (isn't that, in and of itself, an indictment of the Pats' scouting dept.?). Instead, they could have used the selection on OLB Connor Barwin, CB/S Jarius Byrd, ILB James Laurinaitis, or RT Phil Loadholt. If the Pats had taken, say, Barwin and Matthews, they wouldn't have such a major issue getting to the QB. These are serious drafting errors.    

    Pryor was a solid pick in the 6th last year.  Hey, I'm not disagreeing on past drafts.  I thought we missed out on a lot of talent and blew a lot of picks.  I feel differently about this year.  Maybe losing Pioli was a good move.
     
    RESPONSE: Pioli wasn't the problem. BB has the final say. The problem lies with the scouting department.  

    Sorry, I'm not impressed with much the Jets did this off season.  Some of these moves will backfire on them, wait and see.  The Dophins on the other hand worry me more.  Their defense got really good and Marshall with help that offense.  Still everything considered, if Brady stays healthy, the Pats win the AFC East again.
     
    RESPONSE: Whether the Jets surpass the Pats will largely depend on whether QB Mark Sanchez can stay healthy, and continue to improve. Brady vs. Sanchez is still a big Pats' advantage.

    Thanks Dad. Nah, I'm going to stay pumped because unlike years past I'm sold on these picks and actually took 9 of the 12 in my various mocks.  A++ draft for me until the season starts and I'm proven wrong.

    Response: Hope you're right, my son...LOL!!  

    Posted by Faucetman


        
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    RESPONSE: OurLads Scouting Services listed Price as "a 4th or 5th round pick", basically because he's so raw. Mel Kiper had him ranked much higher...ahead of Golden Tate, and Roberts. You seem to agree with me that Everson Griffen, Bruce Campbell, and I would add Mardy Guilyard, would have been better choices with the 90th pick. I liked Guilyard better because he could help fill in for Welker, played against far better competition, was a one-man-gang in leading a comeback win on the road against Pitt in the Big East title game, and would have an instant impact as a kick returner...something the Patriots badly need.

    The only thing I didn't like about Gilyard is he's a loud mouth and a show boat and he sometimes struggles to beat the press.  I had Price rated higher.  Yes, I would have preferred either Campbell or Griffen, won't argue that.

    RESPONSE: I too liked the selection of "Zoltan the Magnificent" at #150. Getting the Panthers' 2nd rounder in 2011 was not free...it cost the Pats the 89th overall pick...which they could have used on Griffen or Campbell. But, that appears to have been a good move. My problem isn't with the way the Pats are manipulating the draft board. My problem is how they've been using their picks since 2005. With the exception of 2007, they've done a terrible job. That is why the team is in decline.

    Yes, but they didn't have that 89th heading into the draft.  Yes, they could have taken Griffen or Campbell but now maybe that pick is a #40 and they get a John Moffit - a big stud OG to replace Neal with that pick.  I liked trading 89 for a 2011 2nd.

    RESPONSE: An H-back and a good, but injury prone TE, will not free up Moss...especially with Welker gone.  

    I'm not trying to free up Moss.  I want Moss to take Revis and Davis deep with him to free up our new TE weapons to work against the LBs and SSs.  It is brilliant taking those two TEs.  Our opponents countered Moss with Revis and Davis so now we get two TEs that will create mis-matches against most LBs and safeties.  Price has enough vertical speed to stretch the other side allowing our TEs to tear it up over the middle.

    RESPONSE: There wasn't a pass-rusher available in the 20s that would have trumped a good CB. Sergio Kindle had the bad knee. Because of his back, Gronk could turn out to be another Jeremy Shockey. Don't have any complaints on the McCourtey pick, right now. But, this kid had better develop into a depandable starter...or else heads should roll in the scouting department. 

    Agreed.  Can't reach on a pass rusher there.  A good secondary only helps the rush.

    RESPONSE: So...with still no replacement at DE for Seymour...with no immediate improvement at pass-rushing OLB, no Welker, the same ol' mediocre OL, and with the same old and tired RBs...how are the Pats appreciably better than in 2009? 

    There wasn't a Seymour available at 22 although I would have stayed at 24 and taken Dan Williams.  Agreed that we have the same OL and RBs but our OL is better than average.  We dramatically improved at TE and will be playing a lot more possession passing, 8-10 yard chunks.  This negates the loss of Welker.  Our secondary will be better with McCourty and we have 4 new LBs if you count Crable and McKenzie.  I love the Spikes pick.  Not sold on Cunningham but maybe Crable can bring it if he stays healthy.  He was a pass rusher in college.

    RESPONSE: Talk about old and tired...why add Westbrook? Isn't he, at this stage of his career, a Kevin Faulk clone at best?

    True.  But, he is a better running than Faulk.  I'd take a shot at him, play him until he gets hurt then cut him if he came cheaply.  Not willing to fall on my sword over this though.  It will be RB by committee again which was good for #12 in the league last year.

    RESPONSE: Come on, now. The Jets picked up a pro-bowl caliber WR, for next to nothing. His addition can only make their team better.

    On paper.  What does he do to that locker room?  Keep in mind also that he will miss the first 25% of the season on suspension.  A 1-3 start would be hard to recover from because they have not improved on offense until Holmes comes back.  I didn't look at their schedule but their OL is weaker and their RBs are weaker IMO.  They have 1 TE and he is a receiver.  A sophomore jynx for Sanchez.  IDK man, this Jets team is loaded with ???? and big egos. 

    RESPONSE: Perhaps. But, so what? Their additions certainly have made the Jets a better team.  Marginally at best.  The Dolphins worry me more.  I'd take Marshall over Holmes.  I like what the Dolphins did getting Dansby, Odrick, Misi and Edds way better than Wilson who was the Jet's only defensive draft pick.  Sure they got Cromartie and Taylor.  Taylor will be very pedistrian at this point.  Vollmer will eat him up.  Cromartie might have a little rebirth on a new team but again, they are built to stop the long ball now, not the short routes where the Pats will thrive.  The Jets don't have the LBs to stay with Hernandez or Gronk.

    RESPONSE: What's wrong with plugging holes? Weren't not discussing whether the 2015 Jets will be better than the 2015 Pats. We're discussing which team may be better next season. 

    Dynasties are built with taking the long term approach.  The Jets gave up half their draft in the deepest draft in modern times for 1-2 years max.  Holmes is one step away from being another Plaxico - in jail.

    RESPONSE: The Pats could have taken Clay Matthews at #26, last year. But instead, they chose to move down, for GB's 41st, 73rd, and 83rd picks. With those, they used pick #41 to select CB Darrius Butler, pick #73 was traded to Jacksonville for the Jag's 2010 2nd rounder (which they traded as part of the Gronk trade), and the 83rd pick, used to select seriously WR, Brandon Tate.  Next, Patrick Chung was supposedly listed as the top player available on their board at #34 (isn't that, in and of itself, an indictment of the Pats' scouting dept.?). Instead, they could have used the selection on OLB Connor Barwin, CB/S Jarius Byrd, ILB James Laurinaitis, or RT Phil Loadholt. If the Pats had taken, say, Barwin and Matthews, they wouldn't have such a major issue getting to the QB. These are serious drafting errors.    
    I'm not aruing about last year because I largely agree with you.  I'm talking about this year, this 2010 team.

    RESPONSE: Whether the Jets surpass the Pats will largely depend on whether QB Mark Sanchez can stay healthy, and continue to improve. Brady vs. Sanchez is still a big Pats' advantage. Agreed.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

         Faucet and All:

         It's starting to get a little sloppy...so I'll respond to your post above as follows:

    1.) Price is Right??: I thought Gilyard would have been a better selection than Price because Gilyard could help take up the Welker-less slack in the slot, and could immediately upgrade the Pats' special teams as a kick returner. Everson Griffen has the speed to be converted to a 3-4 OLB, and Campbell, with proper coaching and an improved attitude, could emerge as a quality LT;

    2.) Zoltan "The Magnificent": Though ESPN criticized this pick, I loved it. The Pats must upgrade at punter. Lets' hope Zoltan is truly magnificent;

    3.) Carolina's 2011 2nd Round Pick: A nice chip. But, the way that the Patriots have squandered picks of late, one must wonder just how valuable a chip this will be. If, as I suspect, it will be a fairly high second rounder (43rd-33rd selection), the Pats could convert it into a #1 in 2012, or for a #3 in 2011, and a #2 in 2012. But, to use this pick on a guard would be silly. The Pats don't value guards highly. This is why they've been so slow at extending Logan Mankins. Guards are relatively easy to find. Good OTs are at a premium;

    4.) Rookie TEs Will Make an Impact?: Perhaps. But,to suggest that they're going to replace the production of Wes Welker is a pipe dream. Welker was the best slot receiver in the game...and his 120 catches are going to be sorely missed. As for using Randy Moss as a decoy, surely you jest. Moss is still an elite weapon. The Pats must find ways of shaking him free from coverage. Adding a top flight WR like Anquan Boldin might have done that. Perhaps the Pats can squeeze out a decent year from Torrey Holt.

    5.) NO DE Available to Pats?: I disagree. Jared Odrick was available to the Pats. He could have filled in nicely at the Seymour spot. But, the Pats chose to go CB with McCourty. DE/OLB Everson Griffen could have been had at #90, with the Price pick. Lets' hope that the Pats chose wisely;

    6.) Add Westbrook?: Again, I disagree. At this stage of Westbrook's career, Faulk is as good or better as a role player. Westbrook is a ding away from a career ending concussion. He should retire. The Pats might add a veteran to help fill in at DE;

    7.) Did the Jets Improve?: Yes, and not just on paper. They are all about defense. With the return of NT Kris Jenkins, and the additions of DE Taylor and CBs Cromartie annd Wilson, how can they be worse? On offense, the Jets let Alan Faneca go because he's not the same elite guard that he once was. Leon Washington was traded because the Jets doubted that he would ever fully recover from his badly broken leg. In fact, Washington may not be ready to be anywhere near 100% until next season. He is planning to attempt to play with a stabilizing rod in his leg...and can't cut the way he once could: http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/04/jets_news_notes_analyzing_the.html
         So...the Jets replaced Faneca by drafting Ducasse, and Washington by drafting Joe McKnight. Ducasse should be an able replacement for Faneca. McKnight should be a good change of pace RB. 
         Surely, the addition of pro-bowl  caliber WR, Santonio Holmes, even for just 75% of the season, is going to help. To say that he won't is wishful thinking. Ask yourself this...what would you be saying if the Patriots had picked him up for a song? 

    8.) Miami Has Drastically Improved: The Dolphins drafted well, and added stud WR Brandon Marshall. The AFC East may now be the toughest, most competitive division in the NFL.
           
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft :      

     
    RESPONSE: Talk about old and tired...why add Westbrook? Isn't he, at this stage of his career, a Kevin Faulk clone at best?

    Posted by TexasPat3


    You guys are having a good debate and I don't mean to intrude, but just thought I'd step in here.  I'm not advocating adding Westbrook with his health issues, no thanks.  But I think the difference between Westbrook and Faulk is like the difference between a cheetah and a house cat.  Yeah, they're members of the same family, but that's about it.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft :   

    The Welker move will go down in history as one of the greatest 2nd round trades.

    RESPONSE: No...it will go down as one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history...if Welker can return at 100%.
       
    Posted by TexasPat3


    And this one too.  It already is one of the most lopsided trades.  Doesn't matter if he never plays another down.  It's football, guys get hurt and careers end prematurely.  They got three of the most prolific years in the history of football out of the guy.  If you knew his career was going to end in the last game of 2010 but he was going to be the player he was until then, you make that deal 100 times out of 100. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : You guys are having a good debate and I don't mean to intrude, but just thought I'd step in here.  I'm not advocating adding Westbrook with his health issues, no thanks.  But I think the difference between Westbrook and Faulk is like the difference between a cheetah and a house cat.  Yeah, they're members of the same family, but that's about it.
    Posted by Muzwell


         Three years ago, yes. But now? Out of loyalty, and with Westbrook's health issues...I'd rather have Faulk.  
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft :      Three years ago, yes. But now? Out of loyalty, and with Westbrook's health issues...I'd rather have Faulk.  
    Posted by TexasPat3


    I agree because of the health issues, could care less about loyalty.  It's a "what have you done for me lately" business.  If Westbrook hadn't been concussed multiple times (and was availbale at the cost of Faulk), this would not be a debate.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : I agree because of the health issues, could care less about loyalty.  It's a "what have you done for me lately" business.  If Westbrook hadn't been concussed multiple times (and was availbale at the cost of Faulk), this would not be a debate.
    Posted by Muzwell


        Agreed that Westbrook was unquestionably the better player when healthy.
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

         Some posters have stated that they're more concerned over the improvements made by the Miami Dolphins, than the Jets. Those concerns may be legitimate. Here's a look at the Dolphins' draft: http://forums.sportsjabber.net/sjforums/showthread.php?t=51042

         Here's an article which discusses whether the Dolphins have done enough to surpass the Jets. The Patriots are referred to only in passing...as BB is said to be "distracted", and relying too heavily on his close connection with Florida coach, Urban Meyer: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/dolphins/miami-dolphins-new-york-jets-are-taking-different-626724.html
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
         Some posters have stated that they're more concerned over the improvements made by the Miami Dolphins, than the Jets. Those concerns may be legitimate. Here's a look at the Dolphins' draft: http://forums.sportsjabber.net/sjforums/showthread.php?t=51042      Here's an article which discusses whether the Dolphins have done enough to surpass the Jets. The Patriots are referred to only in passing...as BB is said to be "distracted", and relying too heavily on his close connection with Florida coach, Urban Meyer: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/dolphins/miami-dolphins-new-york-jets-are-taking-different-626724.html
    Posted by TexasPat3


    BB.....distracted....right.....as a fox poised to strike on unwary chickens...

    NY Jets, IMHO, is the immediate threat....since they want it all...NOW....wow, I guess that's what 40+ years of frustration will do to you....

    Miami, however, will be an increasingly dangerous threat over the medium-to- long term (2-5 years) as Parcells & Co. strive to build a perennial contender for the Super Bowl trophy...
     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    I don't agree with some of these grades. There is no way the Seahawks is that low. They owned the draft. 
     
    RESPONSE: Low?? I gave them a "B+". The reasons why I didn't give them an "A" is because I didn't like the Golden Tate pick at #60...and they didn't adequately address their hole at DE, left by the retirement of starter Patrick Kearney. 

    I also felt Houston did very well.

    RESPONSE: Really?? I thought that I was being generous giving the Texans a "C". They didn't get the RB they wanted...as Ryan Matthews was taken ahead of them by San Diego. So, instead they reached for Auburn RB Ben Tate, at #55. I also didn't like the Kareem Jackson pick at #20. I feel that Wilson and McCourty are better prospects. Houston would have been better off pulling a BB, and trading down. The Texans reached to fill needs.

    The Jets did not have an A draft.  That's ludicrous.
     
    RESPONSE: Thats' your opinion. Incidentally, I gave them an "A-", not an "A". 

    They got their 2nd choice CB, got a project at LG and Joe McKnight.
     
    RESPONSE: Where are you getting that Wilson was their "second choice CB"? From what I've read, Wilson was the guy they wanted. Ducasse is more than a "project". He was rated by the draft publications that I read as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Joe McKnight, taken at #114, was a value pick. 

    They also reached for a FB in the Leon Washington debacle.

    RESPONSE: Leon Washington debacle?? The guy is going to try to play with a metal rod in his leg...and is currently unable to cut and shift, like the Washington of old. The Jets didn't feel that he'd be ready to go this coming season...and that he'll never return to what he was. So...they traded him and a 7th round pick to Seattle for their 5th rounder...which they used to select the best available FB in the draft, John Connor. A smash-mouth team selected the best blocking back available in round 5...and you're calling that a reach?

    That's a C+/B- draft at best.

    RESPONSE: We'll have to agree to disagree.
    Posted by russgriswold

     
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    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    I'd have to look it up, but they wanted McCourty because his height, STs, intelligence and zone ability. Also, they liked the comparisions from Wannstedt who coached Revis and called McCourty a talent like Revis.
     
    RESPONSE: Russ...if you come across it, I'd appreciate it if you post the cite. That would be interesting reading.

    Wilson was not the choice. Wilson was the second choice after Haden, Jackson and then McCourty went so quickly.  If Jackson didn't go at 20 to be a legit #1 CB right now for Houston, the CB carousel wouldn't have been as active.

    RESPONSE: I think Jackson is overrated. Remember, he played on a much better defense than McCourty or Wilson.

    This is splitting hairs here, but McCourty's zone ability in college is huge in a 3-4 zone scheme which is what Ryan runs in NY as well.
     
    RESPONSE: The only negatives that I could find on McCourty were his ball skills. He had very few picks. Wilson was thought to be more of a playmaker.

    Yes. Leon Washington debacle. They lost a Pro Bowler and added Joe McKnight.
     
    RESPONSE: How is that a "debacle"? The guy got hurt...and may never be the same player again. So, the Jets needed to replace him.  http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/04/jets_news_notes_analyzing_the.html  They did pretty well post-Washington last season. Adding McKnight, and Connor, who they got for Washington, can only make them better.

    Maybe you think Joe McKnight is a Pro Bowler in the NFL, but I ain't buying it.

    RESPONSE: The guy has the potential to be a very good complimentary RB.

    Also, I don't care if he plays with a rod in his leg.  They couldn't afford him because of all their overpaying in other areas. Like Faneca.

    RESPONSE: Not true. The Jets didn't pay him big money because they don't think he'll be the player that he once was. Also, WR Santonio Holmes should be considered as part of NY's returns from the draft...as he was obtained for the Jets' 5th round pick. 

    Seattle completely fleeced the draft. I though after draft weekend and I still think so now.   How can you not like the Golden Tate pick at #60?

    RESPONSE: I saw him play many times. He's a good college player, who doesn't appear to have the speed or size to have similar success in the pros. Taking him at #60 was too early.

    They got the best Tackle and the best Safety in the draft!

    RESPONSE: Ever heard of Eric Berry? But, I agree that their two first-rounders are blue chip prospects. Its' the rest of their draft that I took issue with. Why are you so worked up over my Seattle grade? I gave them a "B+"!!

    Two cornerstone rebuilding positions and a legit possible #1 WR?
     
    RESPONSE: I don't see Tate developing into a #1 WR.

    GREAT PICKS.  All high quality character guys too. And the Raiders getting an A is laughable even with McClain.

    RESPONSE: Why don't you think the Raiders deserved an "A"? Why is that "laughable"? 

    Posted by russgriswold
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : BB.....distracted....right.....as a fox poised to strike on unwary chickens... NY Jets, IMHO, is the immediate threat....since they want it all...NOW....wow, I guess that's what 40+ years of frustration will do to you.... Miami, however, will be an increasingly dangerous threat over the medium-to- long term (2-5 years) as Parcells & Co. strive to build a perennial contender for the Super Bowl trophy...
    Posted by DogenHanda


         Heres a good breakdown of Miami's draft selections: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-rookie-camp-0430-20100429,0,824167.story
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft

    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft:
    In Response to Re: Grading the 2010 NFL Draft : .... Miami, however, will be an increasingly dangerous threat over the medium-to- long term (2-5 years) as Parcells & Co. strive to build a perennial contender for the Super Bowl trophy...
    Posted by DogenHanda


    Problem with that theory is Parcells won't be there that long.  He's the Larry Brown of the NFL.  Here today, gone in a couple of years.  Look at his track record.
     
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