Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    I had to borrow these from another poster, Patriots rushing offense through the years:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

     

    To say that we haven't turned to a more "runcentric" team is completely wrong, above are the stats that prove this.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it true, it has to be backed up by facts rather than "because I say so."  If carrying 3 receivers on the entire roster doesn't spell that out for you I don't know what will?

    To get more in depth in the championship years, 2001 we were 8th in rushing attempts, 2003 we were ranked low (12th) because Belichick was conserving Antoine Smith for the playoffs, which we know to be true because we attempted 31 rushing attempts per game in the postseason and Smith was tied with (surprise, also in the Super Bowl) Stephan Davis of Carolina for the most rushing attempts in the NFL postseason and was 2nd in attempts per game.

    In 2004 we were ranked 5th in rushing attempts, considering this year we're ranked 2nd in rushing attempts its safe to say that we're not only like those championship teams but we're MORE run happy than those teams ever were.  

    See folks those are what we call facts, not conjecture or lazyboy coaching but actual facts.  These also aren't stats based on complex mathematical formulas that ask you to suspend belief and logic to make a point, but actual NFL rankings

    Wait I'm sure there's a complex mathmatical formula coming soon to explain how out of an average of 32 NFL teams these rankings don't matter much because the air speed velocity of footballs in an El Nino atmosphere hinder the time each drive takes... 

    You guys would be funny if you weren't so predictable.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    For the record, I completely disagree with Rusty that any of our offensive short comings in the post season are Brady's fault. We have not had an offensive coaching staff that helped brady run this offense until we took McD back. In Brady's words, "McD makes adjustments better then ANY OC he has been around". Blaming Brady is as absurd a thing as I have ever heard of. This guy is gonna go down as the best QB in NFL history, and I truly believe if we had continuity at the O.C position he would have at least 1 more Lombardi already....but he will soon have his 4rth anyway!

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    How can our QB making bad choices with the ball not be his fault? Whose fault is it?

    I agree McDaniels is better at making quicker adjustments, but that doesn't absolve Brady.  Keep in mind, this goes back to the 2007 season, if not 2006. 2005 was a transition year for McDaniels and Brady, so that's not fair to really analyze that season.

    Personally, I think Brady did not like O'Brien, O'Brien was politely (and he may have wanted to anyway) told that Josh would be taking over, which is why McDaniels was brought in late last year.

    A chemistry has to be there with Brady and the OC and quite frankly he was SPOILED here with Weis and he is buddies with McDaniels. O'Brien wasn't as good and not his buddy.

    It's still not enough to absolve Brady, however.  Jesus Christ. The guy has a loaded cast and makes 20 mil per year.

     



    It was the coordinators job to put him in a position to win, to surround him with the elements to succeed.  There's a lot of noise around here by the pass happy crew about how coaching is useless and execution is everything, but what doesn't get enough play is how much the philosophical changes in the offense over the years have hurt Brady.  

    I said it before and I'll maintain it until the day I die, Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL with or without a running game, but the Patriot's offense as a whole is substantially better with a power running game backing him up.  Obie should have reinserted fullbacks, more tightends and he should have studied the running plays in the playbook with as much zeal as he did the passing plays, he relied too heavily on Tommy to make him look good, that was his mistake.  Football is about matchups, finding mismatches, putting players in a position to be successful... Tom Brady made Obie, Obie provided Brady with nothing he couldn't have had by calling his own plays or even thowing a dart at the playbook.  His play calling was transparent, even coaches around the league knew the Patriot's had become predictable.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    I had to borrow these from another poster, Patriots rushing offense through the years:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

     

    To say that we haven't turned to a more "runcentric" team is completely wrong, above are the stats that prove this.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it true, it has to be backed up by facts rather than "because I say so."  If carrying 3 receivers on the entire roster doesn't spell that out for you I don't know what will?

    To get more in depth in the championship years, 2001 we were 8th in rushing attempts, 2003 we were ranked low (12th) because Belichick was conserving Antoine Smith for the playoffs, which we know to be true because we attempted 31 rushing attempts per game in the postseason and Smith was tied with (surprise, also in the Super Bowl) Stephan Davis of Carolina for the most rushing attempts in the NFL postseason and was 2nd in attempts per game.

    In 2004 we were ranked 5th in rushing attempts, considering this year we're ranked 2nd in rushing attempts its safe to say that we're not only like those championship teams but we're MORE run happy than those teams ever were.  

    See folks those are what we call facts, not conjecture or lazyboy coaching but actual facts.  These also aren't stats based on complex mathematical formulas that ask you to suspend belief and logic to make a point, but actual NFL rankings

    Wait I'm sure there's a complex mathmatical formula coming soon to explain how out of an average of 32 NFL teams these rankings don't matter much because the air speed velocity of footballs in an El Nino atmosphere hinder the time each drive takes... 

    You guys would be funny if you weren't so predictable.

     



    And isn't it funny how the pass happy, we don't run anymore than we used to, crowd can't respond to these FACTS above...  

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    Wozzy are you seriously arguing this team is more runcentric than the 2004 team?  The rushing attempts are about the same.  The difference is in that season Brady didn't even attempt 500 passes.  This year he set a career high of 637.  And no this isn't complicated math and yes you invoke it yourself when you refer to run/pass ratios.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     If carrying 3 receivers on the entire roster doesn't spell that out for you I don't know what will?

     



    There are a hell of a lot more than 3 receivers on the roster.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    For the record, I completely disagree with Rusty that any of our offensive short comings in the post season are Brady's fault. 



    In this, you are correct.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    I had to borrow these from another poster, Patriots rushing offense through the years:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

     

    To say that we haven't turned to a more "runcentric" team is completely wrong, above are the stats that prove this.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it true, it has to be backed up by facts rather than "because I say so."  If carrying 3 receivers on the entire roster doesn't spell that out for you I don't know what will?

    To get more in depth in the championship years, 2001 we were 8th in rushing attempts, 2003 we were ranked low (12th) because Belichick was conserving Antoine Smith for the playoffs, which we know to be true because we attempted 31 rushing attempts per game in the postseason and Smith was tied with (surprise, also in the Super Bowl) Stephan Davis of Carolina for the most rushing attempts in the NFL postseason and was 2nd in attempts per game.

    In 2004 we were ranked 5th in rushing attempts, considering this year we're ranked 2nd in rushing attempts its safe to say that we're not only like those championship teams but we're MORE run happy than those teams ever were.  

    See folks those are what we call facts, not conjecture or lazyboy coaching but actual facts.  These also aren't stats based on complex mathematical formulas that ask you to suspend belief and logic to make a point, but actual NFL rankings

    Wait I'm sure there's a complex mathmatical formula coming soon to explain how out of an average of 32 NFL teams these rankings don't matter much because the air speed velocity of footballs in an El Nino atmosphere hinder the time each drive takes... 

    You guys would be funny if you weren't so predictable.

     

     



    And isn't it funny how the pass happy, we don't run anymore than we used to, crowd can't respond to these FACTS above...  

     

     



    Those are facts, they aren't facts that support your argument however.  The question is not have they been running more?  It is why have they been running more.  You continually fail to argue the issue at hand.  We are discussing whether the patriots increase in running is due to the new talent level and you keep chiming in that 2+2=4 and that's a fact!  It is a fact just not a fact that is pertinent to the discussion.

     

    Here is the argument-

    You- We are running more because running  equals winning.  The reason we didn't run before is BB doesn't understand football on my level and doesn't know running is winning.  

    Us- We are running because this years RBs are better than last years therefore the running game is more productive and BB understands this.

    You-  Haha, how can you say we're not running more, it's a fact.

    Us- We're not saying that what are you talking about?

    You- I win, you cannot accept my facts.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    I had to borrow these from another poster, Patriots rushing offense through the years:

    Year    Rush att     Rush yards    Average    YPG    Rush 1st downs

    2012      523           2184            4.2         136.5        151

    2011      438           1764            4.0         110.3        107

    2010      454           1973            4.3         123.3        119

    2009      466           1921            4.1         120.1        114

    2008      513           2278            4.4         142.4        145 (Matt Cassell QB)

    2007      451           1849            4.1         115.6        124

    2006      499           1969            3.9         123.1        121

    2005      439           1512            3.4           94.5        101

    2004      524           2134            4.1         133.4        120

     

    To say that we haven't turned to a more "runcentric" team is completely wrong, above are the stats that prove this.  Just because you have an opinion doesn't make it true, it has to be backed up by facts rather than "because I say so."  If carrying 3 receivers on the entire roster doesn't spell that out for you I don't know what will?

    To get more in depth in the championship years, 2001 we were 8th in rushing attempts, 2003 we were ranked low (12th) because Belichick was conserving Antoine Smith for the playoffs, which we know to be true because we attempted 31 rushing attempts per game in the postseason and Smith was tied with (surprise, also in the Super Bowl) Stephan Davis of Carolina for the most rushing attempts in the NFL postseason and was 2nd in attempts per game.

    In 2004 we were ranked 5th in rushing attempts, considering this year we're ranked 2nd in rushing attempts its safe to say that we're not only like those championship teams but we're MORE run happy than those teams ever were.  

    See folks those are what we call facts, not conjecture or lazyboy coaching but actual facts.  These also aren't stats based on complex mathematical formulas that ask you to suspend belief and logic to make a point, but actual NFL rankings

    Wait I'm sure there's a complex mathmatical formula coming soon to explain how out of an average of 32 NFL teams these rankings don't matter much because the air speed velocity of footballs in an El Nino atmosphere hinder the time each drive takes... 

    You guys would be funny if you weren't so predictable.

     

     



    And isn't it funny how the pass happy, we don't run anymore than we used to, crowd can't respond to these FACTS above...  

     

     




    These have been debunked numerous times.

    As has been repeatedly noted, because we ran more plays than in the past both passing and running rankings are greater than what would otherwise be typical.

    The bottom line is a modest 3% greater running frequency this year than last. And no amount of spin in the world can change that fact.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Wozzy are you seriously arguing this team is more runcentric than the 2004 team?  The rushing attempts are about the same.  The difference is in that season Brady didn't even attempt 500 passes.  This year he set a career high of 637.  And no this isn't complicated math and yes you invoke it yourself when you refer to run/pass ratios.



    No, I'm saying we're running as much as we did in our championship years and that's why we'll be more successful.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In 2004 we were ranked 5th in rushing attempts, considering this year we're ranked 2nd in rushing attempts its safe to say that we're not only like those championship teams but we're MORE run happy than those teams ever were



    Explain this then.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    These have been debunked numerous times.

    As has been repeatedly noted, because we ran more plays than in the past both passing and running rankings are greater than what would otherwise be typical.

    The bottom line is a modest 3% greater running frequency this year than last. And no amount of spin in the world can change that fact.



    So averages only matter when they support your flawed logic?  You don't see a difference in being ranked 19th in the NFL in rushing attempts last year and being ranked #2 this year... you're truly seeing what you want to see.  The entire NFL media have done stories on our return to the run game, I guess everyone has noticed but you.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In 2004 we were ranked 5th in rushing attempts, considering this year we're ranked 2nd in rushing attempts its safe to say that we're not only like those championship teams but we're MORE run happy than those teams ever were

     



    Explain this then.

     



    There's nothing to explain, in 2004 we had Corey Dillon running on his last legs, this year we have Ridely, Vereen, Bolden and Woody.  More choices, more ways to roll over a defense.  I don't sit there and micro analyze stats looking at the margins.  

    Points scored, points against; that's how I measure results in football, it's how Belichick and the rest of the NFL keep score.  

    All this reading into highly specialized stats are just certain posters way of supporting whack, flawed logic that they've defended for years coming back to haunt them because our team has returned to their smashmouth ways.  

    A smashmouth team can play a finesse style and throw it 40+ times a game which we obviously can, but a finesse team can't necessarily play smashmouth and pound the other team into submission.  That has been the inherent flaw of this offense over the past 4 years or so... their inability to score or even move the ball against playoff caliber defense's.  

    Last year BB put together a patchwork defense with vets and free agents and gave us a chance to win, the offense was finesse and couldn't even match what our overmatched defense was giving us.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:



    There's nothing to explain, in 2004 we had Corey Dillon running on his last legs, this year we have Ridely, Vereen, Bolden and Woody.  More choices, more ways to roll over a defense.  I don't sit there and micro analyze stats looking at the margins. 

    Points scored, points against; that's how I measure results in football, it's how Belichick and the rest of the NFL keep score.  

    All this reading into highly specialized stats are just certain posters way of supporting whack, flawed logic that they've defended for years coming back to haunt them because our team has returned to their smashmouth ways. 



    To borrow a phrase from you this response is complete horsesh-t.  You can't use simple statistics like rushing attempts to support your argument and then claim my argument is bs because I am "microanalzying" by looking at such complicated stats as run/pass ratios (which people who agree with you use as well).  There are no complicated stats being used here.  You just pull out this argument when you don't have a decent response.  This isn't some ESPN super secret formula with lots of inputs and fuzzy math.  IT IS ARITHMETIC LIKE THE KIND YOU LEARN IN GRADE SCHOOL.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    I mean jesus Belichick has said he cares about 3rd down %.  Is that too advanced of a statistic?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to RockScully's comment:



    Do you think the O or the D was the stronger side of the ball last year?



    Obviously the offense.  And yes the offense underperformed in the SB.  No I don't think it was all on Brady like you do.  Yes I think the defense underperformed as well despite the relatively low point total.  Yes I think this team is better on both sides of the ball.  Yes I think the running game this year has made the offense more versatile.  No I don't think it's as simple as playcalling.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    Points scored, points allowed.

    Everything else is just people talking.  Do you honestly think that if his offense is scoring on every drive and his defense is pitching a shutout that Belichick is concerned with any other stat?  Do you think if his offense was scoring on the first play of scrimmage on every possession that Belichick would be concerned that his team was scoring too fast or that his drives weren't taking long enough?  In a hundred years they won't look back at drives per average, they'll only look back to see who won and lost, they'll do that by checking the score.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Points scored, points allowed.

    Believe it or not if you score more points per drive than you give up per drive you score more points than you allow.

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you honestly think that if his offense is scoring on every drive and his defense is pitching a shutout that Belichick is concerned with any other stat?  

    [/QUOTE]

    No, but so what?

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you think if his offense was scoring on the first play of scrimmage on every possession that Belichick would be concerned that his team was scoring too fast or that his drives weren't taking long enough?

    [/QUOTE]

    No, but some posters here clearly are.  I mean heck there was a thread where someone was arguing the last TD to Vereen in the Houston game was bad because we scored too quickly instead of chewing clock.  Other posters complained last year that we scored too quickly and that we needed to slow the game down to protect our D.  What better way is there to protect your D than to score lots of points?  Yes 3 and outs are bad, but despite being a quick strike offense this team goes 3 and out less than any other team in football.

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In a hundred years they won't look back at drives per average, they'll only look back to see who won and lost, they'll do that by checking the score.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah the team that won had better averages. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

     

    These have been debunked numerous times.

    As has been repeatedly noted, because we ran more plays than in the past both passing and running rankings are greater than what would otherwise be typical.

    The bottom line is a modest 3% greater running frequency this year than last. And no amount of spin in the world can change that fact.

     



    So averages only matter when they support your flawed logic?  You don't see a difference in being ranked 19th in the NFL in rushing attempts last year and being ranked #2 this year... you're truly seeing what you want to see.  The entire NFL media have done stories on our return to the run game, I guess everyone has noticed but you.

     




    What is so hard about understanding that we ran 164 more plays (16%) than the NFL average?

    What is so hard about understanding that running that many more plays than the norm would place us higher in rankings compared to the other teams?

    What is so hard about understanding that we ran the ball 3% more than last year?

     

    Bottom line: One play in every 33 was a run this year that was a pass last year.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    I really don't see the big deal about computing efficiency stats.  Why do you think people look at batting average in baseball or shooting percentage in basketball?  Do you think the player that leads the league in hits is the best hitter in MLB.  Do you think a guy who scores 30 points a game, but shoots under 40% from the field is a NBA player?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    I mean jesus Belichick has said he cares about 3rd down %.  Is that too advanced of a statistic?

     




    Do you think the O or the D was the stronger side of the ball last year?

     

     




    Depends what you mean by stronger junior.

    The D's stench was stronger.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Grantland article on how Erhardt-Perkins offensive system has lead to Patriot domination. Great read.

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Points scored, points allowed.

    Everything else is just people talking.


    True. And our D allowed more points than we scored in the SB last year.

    And they allowed 33% of the points with less than a minute left in the game.

    Anything else is just talking.

     
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