Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=lundblad_jeremy&id=5606325

    I thought this was one of the better pieces I've read in a long, long time.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    The stats are telling, but I'd like some analysis of the "whys".  We all can see that there has been a major dropoff.  The whys are less tangible, and it would be good for a former coach or GM to give his $.02 worth.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    I would like a break down of who he is targeting and what %, with his 2nd half passes.  I think I already know the answer.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=lundblad_jeremy&id=5606325 I thought this was one of the better pieces I've read in a long, long time.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

         As I have repeatedly commented on in previous posts, since that SB loss to the Giants, Brady and the Patriots have never been the same. I'm convinced that such a fierce competitor as Brady was permanently scarred by that loss.

         For those of you who can remember as far back as 1980 and the US Olympic Hockey team...the US had just scored the greatest upset win in sports history by defeating the USSR national team, 4-3. Still, in order to capture the gold medal, the US had to beat Finland. Right before that game, US coach Herb Brooks said one thing to his team, "If you lose this game, you'll take it to your F'en graves.

         The Patriots' loss to the Giants, ruining their historic unbeaten season, and costing them a World Championship...is a loss that Brady and the 2007 Pats will take to their F'en graves.

        
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes :      As I have repeatedly commented on in previous posts, since that SB loss to the Giants, Brady and the Patriots have never been the same. I'm convinced that such a fierce competitor as Brady was permanently scarred by that loss.      For those of you who can remember as far back as 1980 and the US Olympic Hockey team...the US had just scored the greatest upset win in sports history by defeating the USSR national team, 4-3. Still, in order to capture the gold medal, the US had to beat Finland. Right before that game, US coach Herb Brooks said one thing to his team, "If you lose this game, you'll take it to your F'en graves.      The Patriots' loss to the Giants, ruining their historic unbeaten season, and costing them a World Championship...is a loss that Brady and the 2007 Pats will take to their F'en graves.     
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Great Point Texas. He should really pack up his things. He probably doesn't even have the competitive fire it would take to come back from a devastating knee injury. I,m surprised we even start this bum.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes : Great Point Texas. He should really pack up his things. He probably doesn't even have the competitive fire it would take to come back from a devastating knee injury. I,m surprised we even start this bum.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Where did I call Brady a bum? Where did I say that the Pats need to get rid of him? Keep your head in the sand if you wish...but is there any doubt that Tom isn't the same player since that SB loss? He's been good...but not great...and not clutch...since that defeat. 

         But, don't take my word for it. Check out the stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=lundblad_jeremy&id=5606325  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]Good point Tex but I think Brady will get over it to an extent and I still see him winning one or two more super bowls.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

         A big win against a good team on the road would do wonders for his mojo.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes :      Where did I call Brady a bum? Where did I say that the Pats need to get rid of him? Keep your head in the sand if you wish...but is there any doubt that Tom isn't the same player since that SB loss? He's been good...but not great...and not clutch...since that defeat.       But, don't take my word for it. Check out the stats: http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=lundblad_jeremy&id=5606325   
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


     You paint a picture of a guy who will never be great again. You conveniently leave out the part where Pollard shattered his knee in 3 areas. Or the part about the Pats being in rebuilding mode with personnel and coaching for the 1st time this decade as well. How could you possibly surmise that Brady can't get over the 07 SB? I just fail to see your logic. Is it the "statistics" you just posted? I don't understand?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes :  You paint a picture of a guy who will never be great again.
     
    RESPONSE: He may never be great again. He needs to get his mojo back. The best way for him to do that is by beating a good team on the road.

    You conveniently leave out the part where Pollard shattered his knee in 3 areas.
     
    RESPONSE: I absolutely do not. In previous posts I stated that Brady looked lost and completely out of sorts when he started the 2008 season. He looked like he was just going through the motions. When a football player plays that way, odds of him getting hurt increase.

    Or the part about the Pats being in rebuilding mode with personnel and coaching for the 1st time this decade as well.
     
    RESPONSE: I don't accept that as an excuse. Brady has weapons on offense. In 2009 and against the Jets, the Pats pretty much dominated their games in the first half...yet fell apart in the second half...both offensively and defensively. Check the stats listed in the article cited above concerning Brady's play in the second half, and in come from behind wins.

    How could you possibly surmise that Brady can't get over the 07 SB? I just fail to see your logic. Is it the "statistics" you just posted? I don't understand?

    RESPONSE: What has Brady or the Pats done since that loss? Don't you agree that the loss last week was a microcosm of the 2009 season? Check the stats mentioned above.  
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    I found the last part of the article very interesting.

    "

    Likewise, it's still the Patriots defense that's giving up those halftime leads.

    But Brady just isn't bringing them back. While Manning had seven fourth-quarter comebacks last season, Brady had only one. When his team was trailing in fourth quarter, Manning had a 140.1 passer rating. Brady? A 60.0 passer rating, just 34th best in the NFL.

    Is the magic gone? "

     

    I say the magic is still there, the play calling and Brady's reads are not. For some reason he is struggling in the quarter that means most. We have more weapons then we did in 07 but yet this team is failing to score when it matters. In 07 we had McDaniels, now its O'brien. There is the problem, McDaniels was creative with his play calls and mixed it up, O'brien calls plays that even casual fans can predict where the ball is going.

     

    The defense on the other hand is in transition. We lost too much veteran leadership and experience not to be in transition, and as with all young players/teams/defenses, there will be struggles.

    People are saying how BB has lost it on D. Young guys that are still learning aren't as efficient as Vets who new where to be and what to do. Let this defense mature and then we can judge how good BB runs defenses nowadays. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    Wow you are all obviously forgetting that BRADY FACED THE BEST PASS DEFENSE IN THE NFL SINCE 1993 LAST YEAR.  When they analyzed how every QB in the leage did against their competition last year, guess who was the best?  TOM F*CKING BRADY.

    You can either get on board the Brady train or get the f*ck off along with TexasPoop
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes


    nice addition...could you be a bit more specific in terms of "THE BEST PASS DEFENSE SINCE 1993"...Is this league collectively, the teams the Pats faced last year, or perhaps just a few of the teams the Pats faced? 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    He got me where? lol. With his stated opinions based on statistics?

    Texas all you have said here is that we shouldn't use excuses like

    1.missing an entire season from a horrific injury. Ok so do you at least give us a pass in 2008 since we didn't have the league mvp and team leader playing? Or should we have won a SB without Brady? Was Brady's injury perhaps a repercussion of the SB loss? Maybe he wasn't focused? lol.

    2. Losing the integral core of our defense/coaching staff and having a legitimate re-building year on defense. So if Brady comes out and is a top 5 passer 1 year removed from an injury that is widely accepted to take 2 years to recover from, is it his fault that we didn't win a SB? Is it his fault that Ben Watson was our only TE/3rd receiver? Where is the accountability for not having assistant coaches with coordinator experience? Or any kind of 3rd or 4rth receivers on the roster?

    Are these excuses or are these reasons?

    What is the main reason you think Tom Brady can't get over the SB? How did you formulate this opinion? Please don't quote stats like " we weren't good in the 2nd halves of games. Do you read a lot of TMZ? DO you believe the, "married" theory where his heart is not in it anymore? I just don't follow.

    As CarawayDJ said in the other post. I think you are observing the symptom of the problem and not the problem. Fact is this "team"(coaching included) is not as good as it was in 2007 or 2004 or 2003 or 2001. We have two common denominators in our success. Tom Brady and strong coaching. We have lost ALL of coordinators  Belichick has brought up.( and earlier then we should have with Mangini,Mcdaniels)  but we still have Tom Brady. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]He got me where? lol. With his stated opinions based on statistics? Texas all you have said here is that we shouldn't use excuses like 1.missing an entire season from a horrific injury. Ok so do you at least give us a pass in 2008 since we didn't have the league mvp and team leader playing? Or should we have won a SB without Brady? Was Brady's injury perhaps a repercussion of the SB loss? Maybe he wasn't focused? lol. 2. Losing the integral core of our defense/coaching staff and having a legitimate re-building year on defense. So if Brady comes out and is a top 5 passer 1 year removed from an injury that is widely accepted to take 2 years to recover from, is it his fault that we didn't win a SB? Is it his fault that Ben Watson was our only TE/3rd receiver? Where is the accountability for not having assistant coaches with coordinator experience? Or any kind of 3rd or 4rth receivers on the roster? Are these excuses or are these reasons? What is the main reason you think Tom Brady can't get over the SB? How did you formulate this opinion? Please don't quote stats like " we weren't good in the 2nd halves of games. Do you read a lot of TMZ? DO you believe the, "married" theory where his heart is not in it anymore? I just don't follow. As CarawayDJ said in the other post. I think you are observing the symptom of the problem and not the problem. Fact is this "team"(coaching included) is not as good as it was in 2007 or 2004 or 2003 or 2001. We have two common denominators in our success. Tom Brady and strong coaching. We have lost ALL of coordinators  Belichick has brought up.( and earlier then we should have with Mangini,Mcdaniels)  but we still have Tom Brady. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

         Champ...it's just time for us to agree to disagree on this. I have my opinion, you have yours, and, frankly, I hope you're right, and that I'm dead wrong. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    I completely agree with Texas' premise, but I would point to the 2006 AFC championship game as the turning point. It's true that Brady didn't have many comeback opportunities, but do you guys remember how he played in the playoffs in 2007? He was awful against the Bolts in the AFC championship game, and how many points did they score about the Giants in the super bowl? He didn't look like the confident QB to me.

    There is certainly an issue here. It's easy to blame O'C, but O'C can't force Brady to throw to an open WR over Moss.

    With all the statistical arguments out the window, how has the team performed in the clutch? If Brady gets the credit for the super bowl years, then he deserves some blame now. You can't have it both ways.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]I completely agree with Texas' premise, but I would point to the 2006 AFC championship game as the turning point. It's true that Brady didn't have many comeback opportunities, but do you guys remember how he played in the playoffs in 2007? He was awful against the Bolts in the AFC championship game, and how many points did they score about the Giants in the super bowl? He didn't look like the confident QB to me. There is certainly an issue here. It's easy to blame O'C, but O'C can't force Brady to throw to an open WR over Moss. With all the statistical arguments out the window, how has the team performed in the clutch? If Brady gets the credit for the super bowl years, then he deserves some blame now. You can't have it both ways.
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    You're leaving out the gem of a performance against Jacksonville in 2007?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    I'm sure a lot of the reasoning you used would have protected Drew Bledsoe in 2000. Just dish out the blame pie and disregard Brady's involvement. I'm not saying Brady=Bledsoe, but I think there's definitely a correlation to Brady's lackluster 2nd half performance and the teams bad performance.

    Coming from your view, why has the offense struggled in the 2nd half? All on the OC? Well, I think BB is a pretty smart guy and O'Brien wouldn't be here anymore after last year. Did O'Brien underthrow Gronk last week? Does O'Brien look all shifty eyed in the second half of close games? Did O'Brien have a crazy streak where he acted like a 10 year old brat last year if the receivers ran the wrong route? I don't remember Brady freaking out over Doug Gabriel and Reche Caldwell. Didn't they play clutch that year? 

    It clear Brady still has the desire, but that 'it' factor he had seems to be gone. All I know is that I felt more comfortable with Matt Cassel in the second half of games in '08 than with Brady now. Brady is obviously better, so there's something at play here that you are scared to look at because it undermines your entire hypothesis about why the Pats could win this year.


    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]He got me where? lol. With his stated opinions based on statistics? Texas all you have said here is that we shouldn't use excuses like 1.missing an entire season from a horrific injury. Ok so do you at least give us a pass in 2008 since we didn't have the league mvp and team leader playing? Or should we have won a SB without Brady? Was Brady's injury perhaps a repercussion of the SB loss? Maybe he wasn't focused? lol. 2. Losing the integral core of our defense/coaching staff and having a legitimate re-building year on defense. So if Brady comes out and is a top 5 passer 1 year removed from an injury that is widely accepted to take 2 years to recover from, is it his fault that we didn't win a SB? Is it his fault that Ben Watson was our only TE/3rd receiver? Where is the accountability for not having assistant coaches with coordinator experience? Or any kind of 3rd or 4rth receivers on the roster? Are these excuses or are these reasons? What is the main reason you think Tom Brady can't get over the SB? How did you formulate this opinion? Please don't quote stats like " we weren't good in the 2nd halves of games. Do you read a lot of TMZ? DO you believe the, "married" theory where his heart is not in it anymore? I just don't follow. As CarawayDJ said in the other post. I think you are observing the symptom of the problem and not the problem. Fact is this "team"(coaching included) is not as good as it was in 2007 or 2004 or 2003 or 2001. We have two common denominators in our success. Tom Brady and strong coaching. We have lost ALL of coordinators  Belichick has brought up.( and earlier then we should have with Mangini,Mcdaniels)  but we still have Tom Brady. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    simple analysis, can't establish the run, so throw deep to Moss. They need to spread the ball around, establish the short passing game, run,  short pass, run, deeper pass, ect.ect. stop going for the home run all the time. keep our defense off the field and rested. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from donk3. Show donk3's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    Tex, you make a great point.  I don't see the killer instinct that Brady used to display every week.  It could be the injury or the SB defeat, but he is a different guy now.  Can he get the killer instinct back?  I think so, but he has to start making plays and not looking at only Moss in the second half.  He has lots of tools at his disposal he needs to use them and forget about Moss crying to the media.  Moss's ego is not worth missing the playoffs and Brady better realize that pretty quick.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]  It could be the injury or the SB defeat,Posted by donk3[/QUOTE]

    there is no way he is having psot SB loss syndrome or post injury syndrome. it comes down to execution, and poor playing calling
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    Ok, it comes down to execution. Why isn't the offense executing then? 


    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes : there is no way he is having psot SB loss syndrome or post injury syndrome. it comes down to execution, and poor playing calling
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]nice addition...could you be a bit more specific in terms of "THE BEST PASS DEFENSE SINCE 1993"...Is this league collectively, the teams the Pats faced last year, or perhaps just a few of the teams the Pats faced? 
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    It was published in Football Outsiders Almanac 2010 and mentioned by Peter King in this article:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/09/05/mmqb/2.html

    And Football Outsiders ranked all the QBs last year based on every single play taking into account the strength of the opponent and RANKED BRADY #1.  So sorry that the simple minded analysis of trolls like TexasPoop can't take into account things like the quality of the opposing defense.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/statistics/quarterbacks/2009
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes


    Poor execution for sure. In 2007, all Brady had to do was heave the rock in the general direction of Moss and he would catch it...see the Miami game as evidence.

    Problem is, Randy is not the same guy he was 3 years ago. He can't separate as well, can't get the lift he use to, doesn't have the speed he use to. Plus, Brady seems to be off in terms of accuracy. Lots of underthrown or overthrown balls. Couple all this with decision making and playcalling and you have a recipe for trouble. I can't believe all of a sudden Brady's decision making ability went away. But we have seen it time and time again over the course of the last couple of years, where he throws multiple picks in clutch games where traditionally, TB has made his bones. So what gives? Is it lack of receivers, is he over targeting Wes and Randy, is playcalling too predictive, lack of run game to keep the defenses we face honest?....I can't put my finger on it, but perhaps it's all of the above. 


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pjmj430. Show pjmj430's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    im not sure there is a problem alot of those games last year could have went either way.. it just has been the other way lately... last week we gave the ball away 3 times...we dont usually do that... the espn sample is 6 years versus 2 years...we still won 10 games last year ...in 4 more years the numbers can be the same... we still got some kinks to work out... its not unlike the last time around... we were learning how to win and finally it came together for a nice run
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes

    In Response to Re: Great Article on Patriots' Second Half Woes:
    [QUOTE]Poor execution for sure. In 2007, all Brady had to do was heave the rock in the general direction of Moss and he would catch it...see the Miami game as evidence. Problem is, Randy is not the same guy he was 3 years ago. He can't separate as well, can't get the lift he use to, doesn't have the speed he use to. Plus, Brady seems to be off in terms of accuracy. Lots of underthrown or overthrown balls. Couple all this with decision making and playcalling and you have a recipe for trouble. I can't believe all of a sudden Brady's decision making ability went away. But we have seen it time and time again over the course of the last couple of years, where he throws multiple picks in clutch games where traditionally, TB has made his bones. So what gives? Is it lack of receivers, is he over targeting Wes and Randy, is playcalling too predictive, lack of run game to keep the defenses we face honest?....I can't put my finger on it, but perhaps it's all of the above. 
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]


     

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