Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    Its the same thing in baseball.

    Pitching wins playoff games.
     
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    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    The frustrating part is that green ellis might've been able to have a big day if given a chance under normal 2 WR, 2 TE sets. Then you can go to simpler PA routes for Brady to get his feet under him (which is an issue in playoff games the last 3 years). Sometimes they go for the complex over simple, which could've  hurt them.

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]I think our spread offense with Brady in the shotgun and a third down back like Faulk or Woodhead has gotten pretty stale.  We run it way too much, and our offense tends to stall when we rely on it too heavily. We need more variety on offense.  We need a real wideout.  Most of all we need a straight-up running game with a decent tailback.  Who knows, maybe we could even resurrect a fullback . . .  Heath Evans anyone?
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    My take on the offense:

    I agree that the OL is not as good the 2001-2004 run, but not in the same way as most people here think, which is they do not protect brady well. i think they are good at protecting brady. i thought they did on sunday as good as any OL could rotect their qb. yes, brady got sacked 5 times... but i remember well that he had time to throw on 2-3 times that he was sacked (i know it's painful but i am hoping that someone would re-watch the film how much time tb had on each of those sacks). the OL gave him enough time.

    the real problem is that protecting TB is the only thing that the current OL is good at. everyone knows this. tb and the staff knows this and they try to disguise this earlier in the season, but ultimately, the other good teams figure it out during the course of the season. by post-season, they know well that the pats coaching staff will not commit to the run. when push comes to shove, bb will put it on tb's shoulder to win the game.

    now, the pats have an OL that cannot run block consistently. the result was 7 TFLs. i also remember that the TFLs took less time than the sacks. it did not even look like the pats practiced to run the ball hard inside. they practiced some run plays but all finesse plays with woodhead and not bjge. and when bjge was on the field, it did not look like that the plan was for him to run ahrd inside.

    the OL problem is systemic. they decided they want to live and die by tb. they built their OL around that. everyone knows. over 16-17 games, someone is bound to figure out how.

    what was different back in 2001-2004?

    1) the offense did not center around tb so much. in 2001, other teams saw tb as a back who was trying to keep the fort. going into 2003, he was a one sb wonder.  going into 2004, people started taking him more seriously, but they had a corey dillon with a chip on the shoulder taking attention away from tb. at least the other teams were not planning for him as much

    2) tb has changed. he is not as fearless now. he can still swivel and move in the pocket, but i notice each year that he gets more jumpy doing it. and you could see that last game that he was looking around for the rushers, not downfield. he was not like that back in the good days. lastly, in some of those situations he got sacked, he used to scramble and get 3-4 yards himself.

    bottomline, figure out a way to stop that prolific passing offense and you win the game.









     
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    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]The frustrating part is that green ellis might've been able to have a big day if given a chance under normal 2 WR, 2 TE sets. Then you can go to simpler PA routes for Brady to get his feet under him (which is an issue in playoff games the last 3 years). Sometimes they go for the complex over simple, which could've  hurt them. In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this.  I think they should have gone to this approach early second quarter when it was becoming apparent that they weren't moving the ball.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : I agree with this.  I think they should have gone to this approach early second quarter when it was becoming apparent that they weren't moving the ball.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    They absolutely should have gone with this approach. Instead they used Woodhead as the primary rb because Obrien and coaches wanted to use a pass heavy game plan. There have been a few threads about this but the question is why do we not see that good defense's are DARING us to pass in the playoffs. They are practically giving us the run. BJGE had 5 ypc. Why didn't he have 20 carries???

    The 2 TE set works great with a healthy run game. The run game is essential to a balanced offense. We don't use the run game in the playoffs and it has killed us the last 3 trips. Brady is gonna get killed one day.

    I am on the side that blames stale play calling. Jets dropped back with pass heavy defensive line ups and had a thin small defensive line on many plays. Why play into the other teams plan?

    We figured it out when it was too late....again.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]Maybe a great read but all I got out of it was the slow start and not enough protection. Did not explain why it happens in the playoffs vs the regular season. Could it be they just had a bad game? Or how about if he just hands the ball off for the entire 1st quater.
    Posted by fourjays30[/QUOTE]

    AGE is why the OL has been wareing down late season and in the playoffs.Starting  Ol age this season was 31 to 34 without Vollmer. Each man has endured the physical abuse that comes with 9,5, 7, 9, Nfl season behind them. Not only are they weareing down late season, the competion escalates twards the end of season as teams push to make the playoffs, and you are playing the cream of the crop in the playoffs. THIS IS WHEN YOU GET EXPOSED for your weeknesses! We no longer have the ability to keep the momentum late season into the playoffs when good teams should be peaking. You have to be foolish not to relize that 9 years of running into solid human walls and being hit does not take its toll. The more ware you have the sooner you break down. The whole offence stalls, pass protection breaks down, no running lanes are opened need less to the second level of the defence, and the QB gets abused. One more year of inaction on rebuilding the offensive line may be Brady's last.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Texas-Pathetic. Show Texas-Pathetic's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]Not rocket science IMO. Defense hasn't been championship caliber since '04. Brady and the offense have masked the deficiencies in the regular season but the playoffs separates the men from the boys. This year the rebuilding went very well but injuries slowed progress at the end of the year. Still no consistent pass rush. The offense is more balanced but still not where it was in championship years. When you run out of the shotgun you might as well put the play on the jumbotron. It's no revelation that you beat a drop back QB with pressure up the middle. Especially when the center has to long snap it and block a center rush. Play action only works when you have a running game. When you come out passing in the shot gun and don't score points, you play right into the hands of a good defense. Especially with cover corners like the Jets. In both NY playoff games they stuck with the original offensive game plan too long and were too stubburn to change until it was too late. Poor half time adjustments.  They could have won both with better coaching & execution. Brady is at his best when he's managing the game and spreading the ball around. This year he spread the ball around, but the game plan still requires him to win the game.  They need to get the defense back to elite level and let him manage rather than put the whole game on his shoulders.
    Posted by ipats[/QUOTE]

    I think your correct, and the issue I think is that the defensive has been in a "retooling" mode for 5 years now.  Personally, I think it is way too soon to call success; those that point to the 2nd half of 2010 only need to look at the Jets/Pats playoff game failure.  I think more important is the long period of draft and FA failures that have undercut the retooling effort.  All the while, Brady has gotten older and older with more an more wear and tear.  Soon a much more difficult retooling on the offense will be needed.  The organization needs to greatly improve their talent acquistion in order to resurrect SB contending ways.  It should also be noted that half-time adjustments have been far less effective over the past 4 years or so.  Coaching upgrades or better in game film study, or both, are needed. Fortunately there seems to be a stockpile of picks; better film study is probably impaired given rule enforcement, but better assistant coach support is obviously not out of the question.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]My take on the offense: I agree that the OL is not as good the 2001-2004 run, but not in the same way as most people here think, which is they do not protect brady well. i think they are good at protecting brady. i thought they did on sunday as good as any OL could rotect their qb. yes, brady got sacked 5 times... but i remember well that he had time to throw on 2-3 times that he was sacked (i know it's painful but i am hoping that someone would re-watch the film how much time tb had on each of those sacks). the OL gave him enough time. the real problem is that protecting TB is the only thing that the current OL is good at. everyone knows this. tb and the staff knows this and they try to disguise this earlier in the season, but ultimately, the other good teams figure it out during the course of the season. by post-season, they know well that the pats coaching staff will not commit to the run. when push comes to shove, bb will put it on tb's shoulder to win the game. now, the pats have an OL that cannot run block consistently. the result was 7 TFLs. i also remember that the TFLs took less time than the sacks. it did not even look like the pats practiced to run the ball hard inside. they practiced some run plays but all finesse plays with woodhead and not bjge. and when bjge was on the field, it did not look like that the plan was for him to run ahrd inside. the OL problem is systemic. they decided they want to live and die by tb. they built their OL around that. everyone knows. over 16-17 games, someone is bound to figure out how. what was different back in 2001-2004? 1) the offense did not center around tb so much. in 2001, other teams saw tb as a back who was trying to keep the fort. going into 2003, he was a one sb wonder.  going into 2004, people started taking him more seriously, but they had a corey dillon with a chip on the shoulder taking attention away from tb. at least the other teams were not planning for him as much 2) tb has changed. he is not as fearless now. he can still swivel and move in the pocket, but i notice each year that he gets more jumpy doing it. and you could see that last game that he was looking around for the rushers, not downfield. he was not like that back in the good days. lastly, in some of those situations he got sacked, he used to scramble and get 3-4 yards himself. bottomline, figure out a way to stop that prolific passing offense and you win the game.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Good at protecting Brady, lets see what injuries he had in the last three years, Ankle, foot multiple times, knee, rib's, finger's sholder, not counting those undisclosed by BB. If you ask me he has suffered more injuries than most QB's in the NFL. Keep fooling yourself, the next injury could be his last.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    So is over-reliance on Brady the real issue? It's clear that if he doesn't play great in the post-season then they are toast. With this common trend I think it makes sense to adjust come next year (where I bet they have the #1 seed again if they stay healthy).

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : I agree with this.  I think they should have gone to this approach early second quarter when it was becoming apparent that they weren't moving the ball.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    Hopefully he doesn't get a career ending sholder injury next year. 

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : Good at protecting Brady, lets see what injuries he had in the last three years, Ankle, foot multiple times, knee, rib's, finger's sholder, not counting those undisclosed by BB. If you ask me he has suffered more injuries than most QB's in the NFL. Keep fooling yourself, the next injury could be his last.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]Hopefully he doesn't get a career ending sholder injury next year.  In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    Don't Jinx us, nock on wood, salt over sholder, and three hail mary's. whew!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gulo. Show Gulo's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    thats generally what happens when you lose... 
    horrible article, thanks for pointing out the obvious 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : Good at protecting Brady, lets see what injuries he had in the last three years, Ankle, foot multiple times, knee, rib's, finger's sholder, not counting those undisclosed by BB. If you ask me he has suffered more injuries than most QB's in the NFL. Keep fooling yourself, the next injury could be his last.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]


    if he's getting injuries then you have to ask if he's getting old and frail. he is one of the least sacked QBs since 2007.  the NWE OL may be in the top 5 in keeping their QB from being sacked. this year was not different, and tb's efficiency rating all year confirms the sack data.

    i have been looking for data on how much they get blitzed by opposing d. i bet that they also get blitzed much more than most of the other offenses. if that's true then that would be another data point for you.

    obtw, on that play where tb got injured....the rb (i believe it was morris) was the one who let pollard get to tb. fyi in case you don't know.





     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : Good at protecting Brady, lets see what injuries he had in the last three years, Ankle, foot multiple times, knee, rib's, finger's sholder, not counting those undisclosed by BB. If you ask me he has suffered more injuries than most QB's in the NFL. Keep fooling yourself, the next injury could be his last.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]


    oh if that's not enough for you...consider this...of the four teams still playing only the jets comes close to nwe on sack prevention. bears, steelers and packers game up many more sacks. yes...the notion that they are overprotecting brady at the expense of the entire team's success is plausible.
     
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    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]So far, every playoff game we lost, we had fewer points at the end than the other team did.  I think that means something.   Really, it does.  I don't think you can say offense or defense, when we lost in the SB it was a defense that couldn't stop the game winning drive, but the offense that couldn't score on the NEXT drive.  I say both failed.  The Ravens game.  BOTH sides failed completely.  The Jet game.  Both sides again, add in special teams errors or failures and theres a ball game.  Just do a bit better in all three phases and I believe you are good.  JUST A BIT BETTER.  Gronk turns around on two swing passes and catches a ball thrown (correctly) to his outside shoulder, drive sustained, defense changes focus, things open up, we do fine.  The Jets won on the perfect storm of stuttering offense, mistakes on defense, and ST errors.  Fix any portion, and the other two portions may not even happen.  This team isn't the team from 2007.  Or 2009.  So stop prosecuting them for the crimes of those teams.  This team is young, and make little errors.  I think that is about all.  If it wasn't the Jets, and I had so much on the line emotionally, it would have been painful, but more tolerable.
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]

    "Dont prosecute them for crimes of those teams?"  LMFAO!!! You goof, people are discussing a game and this team. No one cares about what you think, you couldn't coach a POP Warner team so please, stop trying to sound like you know what people in here are saying and what they should and should not think. 

    Maybe if you went and got a life you wouldn't have so much on the line, emotionally.

    So please, go back and take your medications for your head trauma and stay out of other people's conversations. Sealed

     
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    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]Considering what I know about the team in the regular season: - They protect Brady well - Brady plays well, downright perfect, when healthy - They're pretty diverse with play-calling (at times it lacks like 2009 but at other times it's great like this year) - Players execute well and play well in situational football All of those things crash in the playoffs.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    Well, if we take a look at all 3 losses this past season, we lost all 3 of those games because:

    1) The offensive line (TEs and RBs) couldn't protect brady from sacks or harrasses.
    2) The offense didn't put up as many points as the regular season average
    3) The defense couldn't get the opponent's offense off the field
    4) the game plan and play calling seemed revert to conservative schemes and playcalling and become one dimensional (maybe we became one dimensional because we were behind?).

    All these problems happened at the same time. Result = loss.

    IMO, we used to rely on defensive playmakers to get our D off the field. Since about 2006 (give or take a year), we've relied on our offense to keep our D off the field. I think that is still that case, but we're starting to make a transition back to better d.

    so, if we are to protect Brady - then yeah, we gotta work on our offense line. If we're going to complete the transition and go back to better d - then we need both better DE and OLBs. We gotta work on both sides of the line
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : if he's getting injuries then you have to ask if he's getting old and frail. he is one of the least sacked QBs since 2007.  the NWE OL may be in the top 5 in keeping their QB from being sacked. this year was not different, and tb's efficiency rating all year confirms the sack data. i have been looking for data on how much they get blitzed by opposing d. i bet that they also get blitzed much more than most of the other offenses. if that's true then that would be another data point for you. obtw, on that play where tb got injured....the rb (i believe it was morris) was the one who let pollard get to tb. fyi in case you don't know.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    The sack total taken by itself is very decieving, for instance Brady took 5 sacks in the last game this year but he also took 7 hits and hits after release of the ball leave the QB at his most vulnarable being extended in the throwing motion, as opposed to being able to cover up as the hit happens takeing the sack. On the season not counting preseason He took 30 sacks and 55 QB hits, thats an average of 5 times per game we let the defence get to Brady. And yes Brady is 33 years old,  but I take the term you used (frail )as inflamatory only trying to insite some type of confrontation leading me to believe this communication is not an anylasis to identify improvements to the team or system but an atack on personal opinions and the team.  I could site inacuracies  and conjecture within your statements but it apeares that you would not care. when you used the term frail in reference to Brady you reviel yourself to be a person that may fit in more likely on some other team site. And if you were a true football fan you would have no problem locating the data you need to support the inacuracies you misstated in your response. Incedently if you were a Pats fan it would be impossible for you not to know that Bernard Pollard Safety from the chiefs was knocked to the ground by Sammy Morris before lunging at brady's knee from the ground, he did not miss his block. FYI I do know. That Video is burned into the minds of all true pat fans.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : ...but I take the term you used (frail )as inflamatory only trying to insite some type of confrontation leading me to believe this communication is not an anylasis to identify improvements to the team or system but an atack on personal opinions and the team. ..
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]

    i actually do not believe that tb is frail...i guess the way i worded that was pretty inflammatory, using your words. it was in reaction to your "you're fooling yourself" comment. i guess we are all still hurting and sensitive from the scars suffered last week.

    i did not compare the hits and sacks total. you seem to have found the data for pats...the question is how does that compare with the other teams? and the next question is whether opponents would have attacked tb as much if the team had a more credible run game.

    the point i was trying to make is that if your opponents are willing to gamble by not playing your run game honestly, you should take advantage by running it. if not, they take advantage and keep attacking your qb.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]That would be a lot of turnover. I was more referring to the article which just uses sacks as the statistic that stands out, but didn't really differentiate btw pressure and coverage sacks. Is Koppen really considering retirement? Not to be overly critical, but I thought picking pouncey last year might've been a good move bc of Kopes performance over the last few years. I know he does a good job of organizing the line, but he does get bullied quite a bit. I could see an upgrade there for sure. Hopefully they can figure something out with Mankins... In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    the center they drafted out of carolina and subsequently cut ted larsen was starting for tampa bay for most of the year.... i think he would have been koppens replacement..

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses : "Dont prosecute them for crimes of those teams?"  LMFAO!!! You goof, people are discussing a game and this team. No one cares about what you think, you couldn't coach a POP Warner team so please, stop trying to sound like you know what people in here are saying and what they should and should not think.  Maybe if you went and got a life you wouldn't have so much on the line, emotionally. So please, go back and take your medications for your head trauma and stay out of other people's conversations. 
    Posted by DoctorFootball[/QUOTE]

    hey peon...  the jests LOST AGAIN...   so no YOU GOOF.... no medication can help you for the problem you have...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    Brady actually had plenty of time to throw in that game.  Plenty. 

    The Jets blitzed infrequently and dropped many into coverage.  I'd say its likely that the coverage schemes confused Brady to make him hesitate to throw the ball in many instances.  The sacks frequently were coverage sacks.  That's not a protection problem. 

    Give credit to the Jets for a great defensive scheme.  Usually when Brady has time to throw the ball (and he did in that loss), he finds an open receiver.  that didn't happen in the Jets game.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

     Brady is a pocket passer. He is at his best when he can step up in the pocket and throw those bullet passes into tight coverage............  The way you beat the Patriots is to bring pressure up the middle with two pass rushing nose tackles forcing Brady back in the pocket where the edges rushers are waiting....  We need a bigger center and two new guards and/or Brady needs to  roll out of the pocket more often.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses

    In Response to Re: Great Read: Common Thread in 3 Playoff Losses:
    [QUOTE]Brady actually had plenty of time to throw in that game.  Plenty.  The Jets blitzed infrequently and dropped many into coverage.  I'd say its likely that the coverage schemes confused Brady to make him hesitate to throw the ball in many instances.  The sacks frequently were coverage sacks.  That's not a protection problem.  Give credit to the Jets for a great defensive scheme.  Usually when Brady has time to throw the ball (and he did in that loss), he finds an open receiver.  that didn't happen in the Jets game.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    hey troll your ponies forhead needs a brushing...and he needs to have his daily "rubdown"  so get back to work

    noone wants to hear your useless ramblings...troll
     
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