1. You have chosen to ignore posts from deluxbury. Show deluxbury's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:42 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Granted the youngsters should get better with experience, but how much better and how much experience? There's no reason to think that guyton, woods and crable are ever going to be pro-bowl caliber LBs. At best I think they're JAGs but they have to improve a bunch even to reach that level.   If we don't get vastly improved LB play within the next couple of games, we could find ourselves with 4-5 losses in the first half of the season and out of the playoffs altogether. 
    Posted by unclealfie


    EXACTLY!
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:42 PM EDT

    And I am sure Bill Belichick would dissagree with you. If you listen to all the talking heads then yes we are in big trouble.....but if you trust the team then you know the talking heads are just trying to keep you watching or listening. The reason guys like Miek Felger spend so much time stiring teh pot is because it keeps you listening to his BS. The Pats have depth at every spot in fact some have said this might be our deepest team ever. Slow your roll
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:42 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : You state the obvious. Of course at this point the players on the superbowl teams were better. The defense now is young and hasn't been there YET but any team that Belichick has put together has a damn good chance of getting there. Why would people not want to consider this? The question you should be concerned with right now is what can Peyton do without 2 prolific wrs for the first time in his career?
    Posted by TrueChamp


    1st - I don't subscribe to the fact that regardless of players that any group of players that Belichick coaches can get to the level he had his earlier teams at.  I think he is the best coach, but no one is that good.  Players play the game.  If they are not as good as their opponents then they lose.

    As to the Manning question -

    1998 - Harrison and Pathon
    1999 - Harrison and Wilkens
    2000 - Harrison and Pathon
    2001 - Harrison and Wilkens
    2002 - 2006  -Harrison and Wayne
    2007 - Wayne and Gonzalez (Gonzo - rookie)
    2008 - Harrison and Wayne

    The point - in 6 of 11 Manning years Manning only had one prolific receiver and I would actually say 7 because in 02 Wayne was only a 2nd yr receiver.  Manning will be fine.  Watch.

    Prolific receivers result good QB's and hard work.  Manning also works very very hard in the offseason with his receivers.  It doesn't matter where they are drafted (i.e. Wes Welker) but how hard they are willing to work to succeed.  This is why Manning has had prolific receivers. 

    Another note - none of Manning's primary WR's over his entire career possessed the game altering size of Moss/Owens/Johnson/Johnson/Boldin/Fitzgerald.  His receivers don't necessarily win jump balls which everyone of those I cited can. 

    Finally, I have yet to jump onto the Anthony Gonzalez bandwagon.  He has been ok, but not (IMO) worthy of his draft position.  Maybe I am being harsh, but it is the way I see it.  So, for those of you who want to apply prolific to Gonzalez, I think you are way off base. 

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:47 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    No, the defense was not stellar, but it certainly did enough to give the Pats a chance to win. Which they did. Without luck of any kind.
    Posted by prairiemike


    I'd better qualify my statement a little.  I am not suggesting that the Patriots are not good.  They are.  A win is a win is a win. 

    But the pats D in their heyday (yes that was then this is now) was dominant.  Now it appears to be "good enough".  This is a very different defense.  It will be interesting to see if they gel. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from deluxbury. Show deluxbury's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:48 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    And I am sure Bill Belichick would dissagree with you. If you listen to all the talking heads then yes we are in big trouble.....but if you trust the team then you know the talking heads are just trying to keep you watching or listening. The reason guys like Miek Felger spend so much time stiring teh pot is because it keeps you listening to his BS. The Pats have depth at every spot in fact some have said this might be our deepest team ever. Slow your roll
    Posted by MVPkilla


    MVP:  I actually had to temporarily relocate to NYC for work so have no idea what Felger or anyone else is saying on the airwaves.  This is just my own opinion. 

    I was one of the people screaming that this was the deepest Pats team we've seen in years but that was before Bruschi retired, Sey got traded, and Mayo got hurt. 

    Watch what Leon Washington does to our LB's this sunday and then tell me what you think.  While the DB's look improved, BB defenses always have a heavy emphasis on LB play and our LB's F'n STINK (except Mayo).  Adalius was supposed to be the next coming of LT but he has made two big plays that I can remember. 

    BB has passed on so many LB's over the last several drafts and it's starting to show.  David Harris is an absolute BEAST.  He was there for us but he took Merriweather instead.  Imagine Mayo and Harris as our two ILB's?  I'm sure we could have got equal value comparible to Meriweather either through FA, trade, or another person in the draft.


     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:51 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : MVP:  We rebuilt our Defense?  Half our defense are on these 1 year contracts.  I guess I'm just frustrated that BB has been extremely selective with creating LB depth to the point we have none! 
    Posted by deluxbury


    Hey but you have a heckuva alot of great future draft picks.  You can't live in the now.  Live in the future when those future draft picks get traded for future future draft picks. 
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 2:57 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Let me see....the Pats give up 186 Passing yds to what is supposed to be an explosive offense with TO and Evans. The Pats give up 90 rushing yds..... The Pats give up 17 defensive points.... The Pats get 4 sacks...2 of them right when we needed them most....we even had 1 called back because AD was dumb..... They do all this when we don't have Harrison, Assante Samuel, Hobbs, Bruschi, Vrabel and Mayo (for 3/4 of the game)....and you HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE DEFENSE?!?! Are you that greedy? You don't like boring?  Well that is too bad.....I want a good defense and that is how they are playing right now. Maybe you should go cry on the Jets board.....you would fit in there......
    Posted by m1020us



    DING DING DING get this man a cookie
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:00 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : I'd better qualify my statement a little.  I am not suggesting that the Patriots are not good.  They are.  A win is a win is a win.  But the pats D in their heyday (yes that was then this is now) was dominant.  Now it appears to be "good enough".  This is a very different defense.  It will be interesting to see if they gel. 
    Posted by underdogg


    Dude,

    Dominant is necessary when your QB is fledgling.

    Good enough is good enough when your QB rules the NFL.

    I readily recognize that some jack@ss is going to throw Blue New Jersey at me, but watch the end of that game and tell me we shouldn't be excited,.


    Yup -- Buffalo held the Pats' offense in check most of the night . . .


    and then . . .


    suddenly . . .


    they didn't.













     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:05 PM EDT

    Adalius Thomas was on pace for a 10 plus sack season before he got hurt last year. Woods/Banta-Cain/Burgess did well and will only get better and Mayo will be back. Dont sweat the LBs man we will be fine.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from deluxbury. Show deluxbury's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:09 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    Adalius Thomas was on pace for a 10 plus sack season before he got hurt last year. Woods/Banta-Cain/Burgess did well and will only get better and Mayo will be back. Dont sweat the LBs man we will be fine.
    Posted by MVPkilla


    MVP:  I hope you are right!  I know our defense limits the big plays but would like to see a more attack style once in a while. 

    I'm fired up for this game like I'm the one putting on the pads! 
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:11 PM EDT

    I say the end of the game and Brady was impressive, particularly with his cofidence in Watson who dropped a well thrown pass just before his first TD catch. 

    Now - as a fan of one of those best in the NFL QB's with a just good enough defense, I have seen how the pats have done with a just good enough defense.  Top of the league, yes.  SB champs, no.  The dominant ones win the SB. 

    Plenty of examples of this and not really any that come to mind with the dominant o and just good enough d.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:12 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    Adalius Thomas was on pace for a 10 plus sack season before he got hurt last year. Woods/Banta-Cain/Burgess did well and will only get better and Mayo will be back. Dont sweat the LBs man we will be fine.
    Posted by MVPkilla


    How do you know Woods/Banta-Cain/Burgess will only get better?
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:13 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    And sometimes draft picks and free agent pick ups don't turn out to be either as good as expected or as good in the system as expected.  The possibility does exist that all of those superbowl playing and winning defensive players that are no longer around were much better than those the team currently has.
    Posted by underdogg


    You don't know that.....
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:18 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Much of the last several years the Pats have played passive defense.  It is much different from the 03 and 04 seasons when they DICTATED the game.  Maybe it's Peese VS Crennel but I'll take a dominant defense over an explosive offense any day of the week.  I guarantee we won't be winning any superbowls until our defense is dominant - again. 
    Posted by deluxbury


    Dude, we have had a top 10 defense every year since 01......That is where you are wrong...the defense has nothing to do with Pees or Crennel.....it is a Belichick D and the Defensive Coordinator calls the plays.....

    I hate to tell you, but a top 10 defense wins SB's.....
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:27 PM EDT

    Because I have faith. How do you know Peyton wont choke when the game is on the line? Because you have faith. Dont be a d*ck if you want to sell the gloom and doom go to your own web site. And you dont know how good or bad this D will be so stop talking out of your a ss
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:34 PM EDT

    I can see both view points here.  On the one hand, we have a very winning franchise, so everything we are doing must be right, correct?  On the other hand, we didn't win a SB in 4 years (aren't we spoiled), but some feel we could have had at least one, perhaps two more rings if our defense hadn't dropped off a bit after Romeo left.  

    I think BB's defensive philosophy requires precisely the right players to make it work; more so than with other schemes.  This is why he passes on a lot of players in the draft that us fans like.  We have a bend, but don't break defense.  That type of defense requires its players to come up with big plays frequently to prevent the bend from becoming a break.  This is what we've missed on D; players who come up big at key moments.  This is also what I found encouraging from the Bills game.  The D actually came through with big plays when it mattered most.  We went from "bend and break" to "bend but don't break".
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:38 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : MVP:  I hope you are right!  I know our defense limits the big plays but would like to see a more attack style once in a while.  I'm fired up for this game like I'm the one putting on the pads! 
    Posted by deluxbury


    I really don't get this.....Did you even watch the game?
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:49 PM EDT

    The D did exactly what it couldnt do all of last season and everyone still complains. Last year the COULD NOT stop the big play and COULD NOT rush the QB. They did both against a deep play ability team.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:53 PM EDT

    Didn't Buffalo trade their probowl LT over the offseason?
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 3:58 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : How do you know Woods/Banta-Cain/Burgess will only get better?
    Posted by underdogg


    Practice makes perfect....

    in the last game, of those 3, 2 got sacks(Burgess and Banta-Cain) and 1 stripped the ball in (Woods) in the most critical times of the game.....

    Maybe they don't need to get better.....maybe they are already there.....
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from deluxbury. Show deluxbury's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 4:09 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    The D did exactly what it couldnt do all of last season and everyone still complains. Last year the COULD NOT stop the big play and COULD NOT rush the QB. They did both against a deep play ability team.
    Posted by Tnutts


     While the DB's clearly look improved over last year, most of the night the defense looked pretty much the same to me.  Very little QB pressure until the very end of the game when it was obvious passing situation. 

      I WANT MORE F'N QB PRESSURE!  THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING!!!
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 4:09 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : 1st - I don't subscribe to the fact that regardless of players that any group of players that Belichick coaches can get to the level he had his earlier teams at.  I think he is the best coach, but no one is that good.  Players play the game.  If they are not as good as their opponents then they lose. As to the Manning question - 1998 - Harrison and Pathon 1999 - Harrison and Wilkens 2000 - Harrison and Pathon 2001 - Harrison and Wilkens 2002 - 2006  -Harrison and Wayne 2007 - Wayne and Gonzalez (Gonzo - rookie) 2008 - Harrison and Wayne The point - in 6 of 11 Manning years Manning only had one prolific receiver and I would actually say 7 because in 02 Wayne was only a 2nd yr receiver.  Manning will be fine.  Watch. Prolific receivers result good QB's and hard work.  Manning also works very very hard in the offseason with his receivers.  It doesn't matter where they are drafted (i.e. Wes Welker) but how hard they are willing to work to succeed.  This is why Manning has had prolific receivers.  Another note - none of Manning's primary WR's over his entire career possessed the game altering size of Moss/Owens/Johnson/Johnson/Boldin/Fitzgerald.  His receivers don't necessarily win jump balls which everyone of those I cited can.  Finally, I have yet to jump onto the Anthony Gonzalez bandwagon.  He has been ok, but not (IMO) worthy of his draft position.  Maybe I am being harsh, but it is the way I see it.  So, for those of you who want to apply prolific to Gonzalez, I think you are way off base. 
    Posted by underdogg


    You may not subscribe to it but that doesn't mean it's not true. I'm not saying you don't need good players to win, but I am saying that those players are gone and over the course of the decade BB has kept us at the top of the league with his coaching and his personnel decisions. My point was you were stating the obvious and I'm not sure who would think our players now would be better then the Championship teams. This however does not mean that they can't be successful.

    As to the manning point. He had 2 dominate wrs for the better part of this decade not to mention Marvin harrison(The best route runner in NFL history) every year he played. While Anthony Gonzalez is clearly not a top wr he does have very reliable hands as he led the nfl by catching somewhere near 77% of his targets. Remember I think Peyton is a great regular season QB I just wonder where he would be without Marvin and Reggie in this decade. Judging by the Jags game I'd say we will find out this year.
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 4:23 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! :  While the DB's clearly look improved over last year, most of the night the defense looked pretty much the same to me.  Very little QB pressure until the very end of the game when it was obvious passing situation.    I WANT MORE F'N QB PRESSURE!  THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING!!!
    Posted by deluxbury


    And I ask you this. In 07 in the Super Bowl was it not an obvious passing situaiton on the last drive? Did they get to Eli?
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 4:38 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! :  While the DB's clearly look improved over last year, most of the night the defense looked pretty much the same to me.  Very little QB pressure until the very end of the game when it was obvious passing situation.    I WANT MORE F'N QB PRESSURE!  THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING!!!
    Posted by deluxbury


    Do you realize that in 2003 we finished 19th in sacks and 13th in Pass deflections and 26th in INT....HARDLY a dominant defense by your standards....

    In 2004 we finished 28th in sacks and 22nd in PD and 21st in INT.  Another DOMINANT DEFENSE, NOT!

    Oh, but wait.....we won the SB both years!
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    posted at 9/16/2009 4:47 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Do you realize that in 2003 we finished 19th in sacks and 13th in Pass deflections and 26th in INT....HARDLY a dominant defense by your standards.... In 2004 we finished 28th in sacks and 22nd in PD and 21st in INT.  Another DOMINANT DEFENSE, NOT! Oh, but wait.....we won the SB both years!
    Posted by m1020us


    Look at 06 when the Colts won the super bowl. There D was 21st in the league. They came together and played great in the playoffs. You dont need a top 10 D to win the super bowl