Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    As to the manning point. He had 2 dominate wrs for the better part of this decade not to mention Marvin harrison(The best route runner in NFL history) every year he played. While Anthony Gonzalez is clearly not a top wr he does have very reliable hands as he led the nfl by catching somewhere near 77% of his targets. Remember I think Peyton is a great regular season QB I just wonder where he would be without Marvin and Reggie in this decade. Judging by the Jags game I'd say we will find out this year.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I really don't think Wayne became a good receiver until 2004 - his 4th yr.  Marvin was out most of 2007 and wasn't even a good decoy last year. 

    My point - Manning won MVP last year with really one great WR.  He had 3 years with superior WR's 2004-2006.  Obviously, just my opinion, but that's how I see it. 

    And I am just one of those who thinks the jury is still out on Gonzalez.  But we will get to see how Manning does with Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    "Dude, I hope she's okay.

    My best friend back home blew his appendix in his late twenties and came just about that close to cashing it all in.

    We kid and all that, but hey man, I hope everything's okay.


    The Pats' defense is the LAST thing you shoud be worried about, bro. " - Pmike


    Thanks for that man, she is doing fine. It turned out to be something else btu i spent like 9 hours in the hospital while the ruled out the appendix and all that. I watched like the last 50 seconds with some of teh doctors in one of the rooms but i missed pretty much everything else. She felt so bad that I was missing the game but it was more importent to be with her of course. I didnt even know about Mayo till this morning. But yea she is fine now they gave her some pain meds and I stayed home with her yesterday to make sure she was all set and to get some much needed sleep after that night in the ER. I told her if the Pats lost it was cause she jinxed them hahaha so i was messing with her the whole time which was fun for me lol but then we won by a point so she dodged a bullet on that one lol
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Look at 06 when the Colts won the super bowl. There D was 21st in the league. They came together and played great in the playoffs. You dont need a top 10 D to win the super bowl
    Posted by Tnutts


    Tnutts - but during that run, the colts played top 10 defense.

    Bob Sanders missed 12 games that year until he came back in the playoffs.

    KC - 15th ranked offense that was held to 8 points.
    Baltimore - 12th ranked offense that was held to 6 points.
    New England - 7th ranked offense - 34 pts but your defense fell apart in the 2nd half (defense wins championships).
    Chicago - 2nd ranked offense and held to 17 points. 

    During the year the colts ranked 23rd in pts allowed at 22.5/game
    In the playoffs the colts gave up 16.25 pts/game.  Which would have ranked them 4th in the reg season

    Defense wins championships.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonJetsLeon. Show leonJetsLeon's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    If you are all tired now and it's only the end of the 1st week you are going to be exhausted after the Jets game!

    Without a pass rush,and if you watched the same game I did Monday night the pats don't have one,the Jets are going to score at will.

    So gang! Did everybody have a productive day?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Tnutts - but during that run, the colts played top 10 defense. Bob Sanders missed 12 games that year until he came back in the playoffs. KC - 15th ranked offense that was held to 8 points. Baltimore - 12th ranked offense that was held to 6 points. New England - 7th ranked offense - 34 pts but your defense fell apart in the 2nd half (defense wins championships). Chicago - 2nd ranked offense and held to 17 points.  During the year the colts ranked 23rd in pts allowed at 22.5/game In the playoffs the colts gave up 16.25 pts/game.  Which would have ranked them 4th in the reg season Defense wins championships.
    Posted by underdogg



    You just made my point. Look at the Pats in 02 suoper bowl run. They were 24th in total D that year. It comes down to your team getting hot around playoff time and playing as a unit. The Colts D in 06 was not a top 10 D same with the Pats of 01
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    the Pats defense will look different every game. Against the Bills the scheme was to not allow the wide outs to beat them. Against the Jets it will be to single the wide outs, pressure the rookie QB and take away the underneath stuff (Washington)
    Seems the same guys complaining about the defense are also complaining about Maroney..
    The defense was fine against the Bills. It did exactly whatit was supposed to do..take away the big plays up field. The defense is faster, better tackling and better coverage this year than last year. As the season progresses, it will also be deeper as Bautler/Chung work into the rotation and Mayo gets healthy. 
    Of course, the offense keeping the ball away from the Jets will also help the defense. Watch for much more running plays against teh Jets and the Pats OL to have a good game 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Deanwrd. Show Deanwrd's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    You think they would go after someone younger.  Someone that may have been cut by any number of teams before the season started.  I would think that any younger player with some skills and a late cut would be a better alternative than a retired 14 year veteran like Derrick Brooks.  Why do we need to pick up old or retired has beens?  It's like the Red Sox In the 80's and 90's going after washed up pitchers.  I don't get it?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    Don't know about many of you but I'm growing tired of the Pats style of Defense.  Yes, I know it's won three SB's and more but it's become so boring to watch! Back in the superbowl years, the defense was unpredictable.  The game plans were extremely creative i.e. VS Bledsoe/Bills when they lined up with no down lineman, etc..  QB's were confused and the defense created complete chaos!  I just don't understand how BB being a "defensive mind" has allowed his defensive unit to get so thin depth wise and not dictate the games like years past.   Offense sells tickets but defense wins championships.. Right? I hope he can prove me wrong or we're in for a long season.  I anticipate a lot of shootouts with teams because we'll score a ton of points but I'm afraid we'll allow a lot of points too.  Mayo out certainly doesn't help.  The depth behind him is unacceptable!
    Posted by deluxbury


    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AtrZoU1_AoQ6UDyW0_ie1n5DubYF?slug=cr-inconvenienttruths091609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    Admittedly it's always fun to watch a badass NFL defense do its thing. But it's also fun to watch a hall of fame quarterback like Brady do his. Mayo getting hurt is not a positive thing, but I think you have to give this defense more than one week before you make a definitive judgement like that doosh from Yahoo sports in the link "The Moss Effect" just posted. It's awesome to have dominant victories but in the end, winning is winning, and if we average 17 points allowed (minus that wacky interception/TD), we should win a lot games this year. I saw some things I didn't like in the defense this week (not much QB pressure for most of game) but saw things I liked also - including some hard tackling in the secondary with a lot of balls caughed up before they were caught. Remember the hoodie is not a magician - he has to work with the limitations of his talent pool, and some of these folks are too new to the system to execute on sophisticated schemes yet. So...we'll see. There are signs of concern but also signs of promise on D.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from thehub. Show thehub's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    BB has passed on so many LB's over the last several drafts and it's starting to show.  David Harris is an absolute BEAST.  He was there for us but he took Merriweather instead.  Imagine Mayo and Harris as our two ILB's?  I'm sure we could have got equal value comparible to Meriweather either through FA, trade, or another person in the draft.

    You are spot on. Jon Beason was there as well a couple of years ago. Patrick Willis could have been had by moving up....did he not see that talent was worth moving up for? BB is the man, but he is not perfect! Lots of LB'S last year and he waits to round 3? I am not worried because I trust BB will always get it done.


     
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    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Do you realize that in 2003 we finished 19th in sacks and 13th in Pass deflections and 26th in INT....HARDLY a dominant defense by your standards.... In 2004 we finished 28th in sacks and 22nd in PD and 21st in INT.  Another DOMINANT DEFENSE, NOT! Oh, but wait.....we won the SB both years!
    Posted by m1020us


    I would love to see the red zone stats form those years compared to the last 2. From a fans point it looks like they are not as good as the sb years. If you have them, post them. Thanks.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Do you realize that in 2003 we finished 19th in sacks and 13th in Pass deflections and 26th in INT....HARDLY a dominant defense by your standards.... In 2004 we finished 28th in sacks and 22nd in PD and 21st in INT.  Another DOMINANT DEFENSE, NOT! Oh, but wait.....we won the SB both years!
    Posted by m1020us

     Pats D
    - 2003 #1 in points against #7 in yds against. (dominant d)
    - 2004 #2 in points against #9 in yds. against. (dominant d)

    Please cut out the minutiae stats and look at the big picture. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : You just made my point. Look at the Pats in 02 suoper bowl run. They were 24th in total D that year. It comes down to your team getting hot around playoff time and playing as a unit. The Colts D in 06 was not a top 10 D same with the Pats of 01
    Posted by Tnutts

    Actually it was the pats 01 team that went to the superbowl.  They were 24th in yds against but 6th in pts against.  So the pats held teams to low scores all year. 

    And it actually proves my point.  Its personnel/players that win the games.  Without Sanders there was no way we were getting to the SB.  Like I have said earlier in this thread, the pats don't have the defensive players to do it this year and they just traded away possibly their best defensive player for a draft pick 2 years into the future.  Belichick is playing a win later not now game. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! :  Pats D - 2003 #1 in points against #7 in yds against. (dominant d) - 2004 #2 in points against #9 in yds. against. (dominant d) Please cut out the minutiae stats and look at the big picture. 
    Posted by underdogg


    Dude, you have to follow the conversation....We all know that the Pats D was great at keeping the ball out of the endzone (as they were good at it Monday night as well), he was talking about rushing the passer....Showing the PA is not helping anyone, is it now?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Actually it was the pats 01 team that went to the superbowl.  They were 24th in yds against but 6th in pts against.  So the pats held teams to low scores all year.  And it actually proves my point.  Its personnel/players that win the games.  Without Sanders there was no way we were getting to the SB.  Like I have said earlier in this thread, the pats don't have the defensive players to do it this year and they just traded away possibly their best defensive player for a draft pick 2 years into the future.  Belichick is playing a win later not now game. 
    Posted by underdogg


    Actually, we have more sacks in this game than we had in any game last year....We would have gotten nothing but a compensatory pick if we lost Seymour to free agency(which was very likely....we also got cap relief....We got possibly a top 10 pick in 2 years and if there is a rookie salary structure that year, then that pick is HUGE.  The D-line was one of our deepest positions...we could afford to lose him....
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    I'll take the cue from dogg and look at the "big picture"....

    BB knows what he wants to put together for a defense this year.  It is safe to say the Pats have had a drastic turnover in defensive personnel from the '07 season, going with more youth and more role players.  Unless someone here can get a one on one with BB and ask a bunch of questions, all we can do is guess and come up with our thoughts as to what he is trying to do.  Are we frustrated that "we" do not see a dominant defense on the field every game, laying hard hits on everyone?  Yes, we are, hence this string about the D.  But, BB has said many times, the players he has on the team are the players he thinks can do the job and win the SB.  I do not think BB is striving to put together a team that is only" just good enough".  The biggest challenge he has had, and it seems to happen every year, is the Pats seem to be one of the most injury prone teams in the league.  He is constantly juggling the pieces around.  Now, he has Mayo out for 6 - 8 weeks, a key element to his D plans and now, once again, he has to re-configure due to an injury to a key player!   Can we imagine a Pats team that can stay mostly healthy ALL year long?  That would be nice!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : I really don't think Wayne became a good receiver until 2004 - his 4th yr.  Marvin was out most of 2007 and wasn't even a good decoy last year.  My point - Manning won MVP last year with really one great WR.  He had 3 years with superior WR's 2004-2006.  Obviously, just my opinion, but that's how I see it.  And I am just one of those who thinks the jury is still out on Gonzalez.  But we will get to see how Manning does with Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon.
    Posted by underdogg


    Last I checked Stokley was a pretty good receiver.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    You think they would go after someone younger.  Someone that may have been cut by any number of teams before the season started.  I would think that any younger player with some skills and a late cut would be a better alternative than a retired 14 year veteran like Derrick Brooks.  Why do we need to pick up old or retired has beens?  It's like the Red Sox In the 80's and 90's going after washed up pitchers.  I don't get it?
    Posted by Deanwrd


    Brooks is a has been?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Actually it was the pats 01 team that went to the superbowl.  They were 24th in yds against but 6th in pts against.  So the pats held teams to low scores all year.  And it actually proves my point.  Its personnel/players that win the games.  Without Sanders there was no way we were getting to the SB.  Like I have said earlier in this thread, the pats don't have the defensive players to do it this year and they just traded away possibly their best defensive player for a draft pick 2 years into the future.  Belichick is playing a win later not now game. 
    Posted by underdogg


    This the "Don't give up the big play" defense that I was referring to earlier. We have had the personnel for this defense the past few years but they could not stay healthy. The only area that was questionable was corner. Belichick coaches and makes personnel decisions to win now always yet stays competitive in future years by proper planning and knowing when to cut a guy loose. This is why we are the team of the free agency era, this is why we have won 3 superbowls and this is why our young athletic defense can be good enough to win a superbowl this year. Once again underdogg you try and seem like you are having an insightful discussion until a turd sandwich of a statement like" Belichick is playing a win later not now game." comes out of your mouth. Get Serious!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    For all those demanding a more attacking defense and more blitzing, consider this from our nemesis Easterbrook:

    The gruntled Jay Cutler's 68-yard pass to rookie Johnny Knox of Division II Abilene Christian came against a blitz, with no safety in sight. Mark Sanchez's first NFL touchdown pass, 30 yards to Chansi Stuckey, came against a six-blitz -- Stuckey was so open there was no safety to be seen anywhere in the television tetragon. New Orleans had Detroit on the ropes at 28-10 and facing third-and-6; a six-blitz allowed a 64-yard completion to Calvin Johnson and a Detroit touchdown on the series. Tony Gonzalez's Irish step-dancing touchdown move came as Miami was blitzing seven. All Gonzalez did was run a quick turn-out; the catch itself was the easiest one of his career. Arizona blitzed seven on what would prove to be San Francisco's game-winning throw to Frank Gore, who ran directly into the area vacated by a blitzing safety. Kansas City led Baltimore 14-10 and had the Nevermores facing third-and-8 -- six blitz, easy Baltimore touchdown. Later, score tied at 24, Baltimore faced third-and-8 again and expected a blitz, since the Chiefs were predictably blitzing on third-and-long. Kansas City rushed eight, a tactic almost never seen because it's like handing out an engraved invitation to score a touchdown, which is what the Ravens did: 31 yards to Mark Clayton for what would prove to be the winning points. Kansas City big-blitzed more than a dozen times, and as a result, the low-voltage Ravens offense gained 501 yards.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/090915&sportCat=nfl
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    I can die now.

    "Gruntled" and "tetragon" in the same post.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    For all those demanding a more attacking defense and more blitzing, consider this from our nemesis Easterbrook: The gruntled Jay Cutler's 68-yard pass to rookie Johnny Knox of Division II Abilene Christian came against a blitz, with no safety in sight. Mark Sanchez's first NFL touchdown pass, 30 yards to Chansi Stuckey, came against a six-blitz -- Stuckey was so open there was no safety to be seen anywhere in the television tetragon. New Orleans had Detroit on the ropes at 28-10 and facing third-and-6; a six-blitz allowed a 64-yard completion to Calvin Johnson and a Detroit touchdown on the series. Tony Gonzalez's Irish step-dancing touchdown move came as Miami was blitzing seven. All Gonzalez did was run a quick turn-out; the catch itself was the easiest one of his career. Arizona blitzed seven on what would prove to be San Francisco's game-winning throw to Frank Gore, who ran directly into the area vacated by a blitzing safety. Kansas City led Baltimore 14-10 and had the Nevermores facing third-and-8 -- six blitz, easy Baltimore touchdown. Later, score tied at 24, Baltimore faced third-and-8 again and expected a blitz, since the Chiefs were predictably blitzing on third-and-long. Kansas City rushed eight, a tactic almost never seen because it's like handing out an engraved invitation to score a touchdown, which is what the Ravens did: 31 yards to Mark Clayton for what would prove to be the winning points. Kansas City big-blitzed more than a dozen times, and as a result, the low-voltage Ravens offense gained 501 yards. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/090915&sportCat=nfl
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Good Post, I talked about this as well. Every fan wants its team to sack the QB more then they do. BB is a master of situational football and the blitz is only one aspect of this defense. "Do not give up the big play" is perhaps the main point  in BB's game plan. As you said above some of the biggest plays of week 1 and probably most weeks are a result of unsuccessfull blitz packages. I think the defense played sound football with the loss of its Captain. It is always a work in progress but I think it will only get better!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    Don't know about many of you but I'm growing tired of the Pats style of Defense.  Yes, I know it's won three SB's and more but it's become so boring to watch! Back in the superbowl years, the defense was unpredictable.  The game plans were extremely creative i.e. VS Bledsoe/Bills when they lined up with no down lineman, etc..   The depth behind him is unacceptable!
    Posted by deluxbury


    Congrats this year it will not be boring....
     
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    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Let me see....the Pats give up 186 Passing yds to what is supposed to be an explosive offense with TO and Evans. The Pats give up 90 rushing yds..... The Pats give up 17 defensive points.... The Pats get 4 sacks...2 of them right when we needed them most....we even had 1 called back because AD was dumb..... They do all this when we don't have Harrison, Assante Samuel, Hobbs, Bruschi, Vrabel and Mayo (for 3/4 of the game)....and you HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE DEFENSE?!?! Are you that greedy? You don't like boring?  Well that is too bad.....I want a good defense and that is how they are playing right now. Maybe you should go cry on the Jets board.....you would fit in there......
    Posted by m1020us


    Not only did they have 4 sacks, they should have had two more.  The Wilfork penalty which WAS a sack, and if Thomas had stopped at the whistle during the roughing penalty in the 4Q.  Buffalo had 9 possessions, punted 4x and fumbled it away one. How is that bad?

    What I am getting real sick of is Massarotti and Felger constantly dumping on the defense.  We don't know how good or bad they will be, but these two blowhards make it sound like they have no shot at being good.

    Not only will Mayo return, but Boddens, Thomas, Wilfork, Meriweather, Banta-Cain and Warren all had very strong games.  Butler and Chung also had meaningful playing time and did just fine.  I loved the play where Boddens croaked TO and jarred the ball loose.

    Green started 7 games in lieu of Seymour in 2007, by my count they won all 7.  Yet Dumb and Dumber keep harping on how he's one year older.  Green is an ok stop-gap replacement, but Brace more than likely is the future replacement.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!

    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense!:
    In Response to Re: Groiwing tired of Patriot Defense! : Actually, we have more sacks in this game than we had in any game last year....We would have gotten nothing but a compensatory pick if we lost Seymour to free agency(which was very likely....we also got cap relief....We got possibly a top 10 pick in 2 years and if there is a rookie salary structure that year, then that pick is HUGE.  The D-line was one of our deepest positions...we could afford to lose him....
    Posted by m1020us


    I'll ask the question again.  Didn't the bills trade away their probowl LT?  If so, it might be easier to rush the passer. 

    Are the bills expected to be a playoff team - not by anyone's projection.  You stated earlier that sacks, passes defensed, and ints were low rankings while the points against was one of the best in the league when your team won superbowls.  Thus, by your arguement sacks don't matter (although I think they do). 

    That said, even with more sacks last Monday the pats needed a stupid play by the opposition to have a chance to win at home against a non-playoff team while your team is projected as one of the top 2 in the entire league. 

    Take the win, but I think there is good reason for concern with regard to your defense. 
     
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