Gronk and Vince

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Gronk and Vince

    Both are coming of major ligament repair this offseason. I know many here have already got into heated debates over the quality/durability of a player coming of a major surgery....or two. So I thought, this forum argues about dummer stuff on a daily basis, why not discuss something football related? I was over at BleacherReport and they just posted an article about Vince and Gronk. Gronk is supposably, "bursting, planting, and cutting during the early portions of (last) Thursday’s practice," Ben Volin said from the Globe.


     


    Gronk is about 5 months into his recovery time, which also include rehabbing his MCL that was operated on a month before his ACL. I don't know if anyone else has heard reports coming out of OTA's regarding Gronk's agility in camp, but I am personally not impressed by slowed down route running reps even if your 5 months into a extensive recovery program. Gronk has shown once fully recovered he can still step on the field and make a huge impact, hopefully he does it sooner rather than later and stays healthy.


     


    Vince on there hand is about 8 or 9 months into his recovery, and ol' man Wilfork may need all the recovery time he can get. When your putting hundreds of pounds of weight on that achilles when planting your foot, that ligament needs to be strong AND flexible. He is partially participating in OTA's and I am sure BB is taking very good care of his big guy, this defense needs him anchoring the line all year.


     


    So, who do you think has the better overall season this year?


     


    I believe we won't see either one of them in the 1st game this season. However, regardless of time missed I see Gronk having a bigger impact on the team and the least likely of the two to have set backs or re-injure their surgically repaired ligaments.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    Tough to compare the projected season for these two.  Gronk will probably be the more productive by mid season, Vince early because of where he is in his recovery.  If (big if) both remain relatively injury free this year then Gronk by season's end will be back to who he was before the knee injury.  Vince will be effective - how effective I can't predict.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    History says that Wilfork is more reliable than Gronk.

    The problem with history in the NFL is that it is re-written every day. Anyone in the NFL is 1 hit away from retirement.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to NYC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    History says that Wilfork is more reliable than Gronk.

    The problem with history in the NFL is that it is re-written every day. Anyone in the NFL is 1 hit away from retirement.

    [/QUOTE]

    Point well taken.  Of course, the opposite can happen, as well.  Consider that Edelman was a walking injury report, up until last year, that is.  He puts together a complete season and look what he accomplishes.  If Gronk can put together a full season...who knows what his final stats would look like?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    gronk is the best player on the team.  why questions arise....??

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    gronk is the best player on the team.  why questions arise....??

    [/QUOTE]

    Brady is the best player on the team. The question is brought up because so many players recover from ligament damage differently and these two guys are key to both sides if the ball and it would be fun to debate it.

    Would you rather discuss about trolls and who to ban or the loser Jets on this forum?

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    gronk is the best player on the team.  why questions arise....??

    [/QUOTE]

    Brady is the best player on the team. The question is brought up because so many players recover from ligament damage differently and these two guys are key to both sides if the ball and it would be fun to debate it.

    Would you rather discuss about trolls and who to ban or the loser Jets on this forum?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    How about this...Gronk is to TE's as Brady is to QB's.  By the way, you're right.  It is much more entertaining to debate about actual football related topics. 

    Sometimes, it seems like this site has been taken over by a middle school's cheerleading squad.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kinchow. Show Kinchow's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    At this point in their respective careers, Vince is past his prime while Gronk is still ascending.  

    If both are healthy, Gronk will have a bigger impact. Especially when one considers the depth at DL will allow Vince to be babied while the lack of TE depth will require Gronk to play max snaps when healthy. 

    Gronk will have the bigger impact.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    ^ very true


    back on topic, if Easley comes in and is an impact player from day one that can move anywhere on the defensive line I think Vince will either be held out all together longer or more slowly eased into increased playing time. Regardless of past injury history, or lack there of, this injury for his age/size/position is prone to reinjury more so than Gronks.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ^ very true

     

    back on topic, if Easley comes in and is an impact player from day one that can move anywhere on the defensive line I think Vince will either be held out all together longer or more slowly eased into increased playing time. Regardless of past injury history, or lack there of, this injury for his age/size/position is prone to reinjury more so than Gronks.

    [/QUOTE]

    Add in the accumulated wear and tear on Vince's legs over his long career and there is no doubt he is a much greater risk for injuring himself again.  It's also less likely that you will see him regain his old form, compared to Gronk.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    gronk is the best player on the team.  why questions arise....??

    [/QUOTE]

    No he's not.  It's Brady.  

    You a troll?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    Wilfork is on the field at public OTAs.  Gronk is doing light jogging and is at least stretching with the team.  So far, that's all hopeful.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tg19pats. Show tg19pats's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    We are getting closer to the time of year where football discussions will be back. I hate the offseason.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    Wilfork has the longer climb due to his age, size and position....he can be doubled, or hit hi/low, on almost every play, and will be because the NFL is the 'NO FEELINGS LEAGUE" when it comes to anyone, any opponent, who is coming back from serious in jury. VW will have to prove he can take the hits and torque on his  tendon once he gets the inevitable blindside hit or double team.


    Gronk also faces a long haul but has better odds on returning to at least 90% of what he was before. After suffereing such brutal knee and ankle injuries he's bound to loose some flexibility and speed. But he's still stronger, bigger and more talented than almost every TE in football at 90% of his old ability.


    As for Easley, he's a special case. Yes he's had the same injury to both knees but his upside is so great he's worth the risk. If he comes back from this second injury he'll be such a disruptive force the way BB can use him he'll make an immediate impact even if he's only on the field for 40% of the plays. His is a once in a lifetime combination of speed, quickness and strength, especially in his hands and forearms, for an interior D Lineman. He already knows several moves to use on O Linemen to get separation and rush the passer. BB would not have wasted the #1 pick if he wasn't sure that Easley's knees would hold up.


    The reality of today's NFL, as has already been stated in this thread, is that every player is one hit away from retirement. This has never been truer of the NFL. Guys are so big, strong, fast and athletic that terrible injuries happen in EVERY game. Career ending knee injuries and head injuries are now increasingly the rule, not the exception.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    Gronk may just always be a guy who is injured. the way he plays he is going to contuniually take 3-4 hits a catch because he's so big. Unless he learns to compact his body more and be stronger an lower after the catch he may never play a full season again..

    But, looking at his recovery, he'll be fine. Everyone comes back from ACLs nowadays, no big deal. I don't think its necessarily his ACL im worried about in the future, but just his health in general.

    As for Vince, we will see. He's 33 and coming off an injury where all his weight will be placed... so this is a lot more iffy but the Pats have a lot of depth at DT (Easley, Kelly, Siliga, Jones and hopefully Armstead..?) so he can maybe be limited in return snaps and just take it easy so he's ready by midseason to be a force.

    Check out my Pats/Sports Blog: http://joepatsfan.blogspot.com/

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to soups' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    gronk is the best player on the team.  why questions arise....??

    [/QUOTE]

    No he's not.  It's Brady.  

    You a troll?

    [/QUOTE]


    omg 53 man roster and i got to be a troll to not pick brady 1..... ok. 

    the effect gronk has on the team showed last year.  from like 19th in offence to 1st.  Don't quote me but it was something ridiculous. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    At first I was thinking hold both guys out the first few weeks for extra recovery timend have them more fresh for the end of the season. However, if I remember correctly many said the same thing last year about Gronk and bam he goes down with a new injury just weeks after coming off the PUP list.

    On that same note, I am concerned about Wilforks other leg/foot. After such a nasty injury, I am sure he will be favoring his other leg. I am sure the doctors will have him healthy, but it's also a mental issue. Guys tend to favor their healthier side of their body after an injury and that one of the worst things. Wilfork will have to go out there full bore and trust that achilles has been rehabbed and strengthened properly.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At first I was thinking hold both guys out the first few weeks for extra recovery timend have them more fresh for the end of the season. However, if I remember correctly many said the same thing last year about Gronk and bam he goes down with a new injury just weeks after coming off the PUP list.

    On that same note, I am concerned about Wilforks other leg/foot. After such a nasty injury, I am sure he will be favoring his other leg. I am sure the doctors will have him healthy, but it's also a mental issue. Guys tend to favor their healthier side of their body after an injury and that one of the worst things. Wilfork will have to go out there full bore and trust that achilles has been rehabbed and strengthened properly.

    [/QUOTE]

    I wonder if they will approach Wilfork the same way that they did Gronk, last year.  He wasn't on IR or PUP which allowed him to continue to practice with the team, until he felt ready to put himself into game action.  It took up a roster spot when he wasn't playing in games, but it gave him and the team a lot more flexibility in terms of how they prepared him for getting back into the game.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to cyncalpatfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At first I was thinking hold both guys out the first few weeks for extra recovery timend have them more fresh for the end of the season. However, if I remember correctly many said the same thing last year about Gronk and bam he goes down with a new injury just weeks after coming off the PUP list.

    On that same note, I am concerned about Wilforks other leg/foot. After such a nasty injury, I am sure he will be favoring his other leg. I am sure the doctors will have him healthy, but it's also a mental issue. Guys tend to favor their healthier side of their body after an injury and that one of the worst things. Wilfork will have to go out there full bore and trust that achilles has been rehabbed and strengthened properly.

    [/QUOTE]

    I wonder if they will approach Wilfork the same way that they did Gronk, last year.  He wasn't on IR or PUP which allowed him to continue to practice with the team, until he felt ready to put himself into game action.  It took up a roster spot when he wasn't playing in games, but it gave him and the team a lot more flexibility in terms of how they prepared him for getting back into the game.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah I can see BB doing that. One roster spot being used for either of those guys is fine with me. Wilfork in general has been over used over the past few years. So start him slow and greatly limit his snaps until week 8 or so.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Gronk and Vince

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ^ very true

     

    back on topic, if Easley comes in and is an impact player from day one that can move anywhere on the defensive line I think Vince will either be held out all together longer or more slowly eased into increased playing time. Regardless of past injury history, or lack there of, this injury for his age/size/position is prone to reinjury more so than Gronks.

    [/QUOTE]

    In regards to Wilfork, I've only heard of one case where a repaired Achilles has snapped again and in that case there were questions of infection in the grafted tendon. Do you have actual stats or are you just going with conventional wisdom that if you get hurt once you are more susceptible to getting hurt again? If you don't have the stats then citing his injury as a reason for re-injury is wrong. It just doesn't happen.

    You also cite Wilforks position as being more prone to injury than Gronk's. If you look at the injuries over the last couple of years, you will see many more TE's getting injured than you will Nose Tackles.

    As far as Wilforks weight being an added factor for injury you might be correct except Wilfork didn't suddenly gain that weight and his body and legs are used to that weight and if anything the strength that comes with that weight probably more than mitigates  any added possibility of injury due to his weight.

    So all you are really left with for concerns about Wilfork is his age and I believe there have been plenty of Nose Tackles that have been in the league for a longer period of time than Wilfork and played at very high levels. 

    If Wilforks rehab goes well he should be just as good if not better than he has been for the last couple of years with no more likelihood that he would get injured again than any other player that had never been injured.

     
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