Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    Here are the game-by-game pass-run totals for three different regular seasons in the Belichick era.  Guess who was the offensive coordinator who called each season . . . 

    Bonus points: state which season each was. 

    Note: sacks are included as passes.  

     

    Season 1

    Pass-Run

    35-23

    37-20

    28-38

    27-32

    47-26

    36-22

    27-27

    39-20

    43-24

    26-34

    28-25

    32-26

    43-35

    27-16

    28-41

    29-45

     

     

    Season 2

    Pass-Run

    45-18

    35-40

    59-20

    53-23

    34-17

    46-22

    34-19

    27-36

    57-19

    34-17

    36-33

    30-38

    27-26

    34-13

    39-23

    46-31

     

     

    Season 3

    Pass-Run

    26-41

    30-39

    55-21

    26-41

    30-34

    31-27

    46-15

    35-33

    40-26

    33-40

    33-34

    40-24

    33-25

    28-38

    40-30

    30-31

     

     

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    if you posted "guess which OC runs the ball EVERY time it is 2nd and 10," I could name that one!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    No takers?  I thought Charlie Weis's better run-pass balance would stand out!

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    if you posted "guess which OC runs the ball EVERY time it is 2nd and 10," I could name that one!

    [/QUOTE]

    Who is that?  It's not Josh McDaniels . . . I just checked the play by play of the last few games and he definitely mixes it up quite a bit on 2nd and 10.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    Just vanilla stats that don't say anything.

    It's not the number or ratio of plays.

    It's situational game calling, when a certain play is run and how it's run. It's adjusting to the flow of the game. It's reacting to how your moves are being countered....not checkers...chess. It's a boxer cutting a fighter and going after that cut without mercy. It's about being a legend in game time adjustments, and remarkable half time adjustments..

    It's about not guzzling copious amount of kool aid.

    But, we all have our own beliefs, that's what makes us fans...and fans can do and say whatever they darn well feel like...without them professional sports ceases to exist.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Just vanilla stats that don't say anything.

    It's not the number or ratio of plays.

    It's situational game calling, when a certain play is run and how it's run. It's adjusting to the flow of the game. It's reacting to how your moves are being countered....not checkers...chess. It's a boxer cutting a fighter and going after that cut without mercy. It's about being a legend in game time adjustments, and remarkable half time adjustments..

    It's about not guzzling copious amount of kool aid.

    But, we all have our own beliefs, that's what makes us fans...and fans can do and say whatever they darn well feel like...without them professional sports ceases to exist.

     



    Yes, but that's kind of the point.  A lot of people are throwing out run-pass numbers as if they mean anything at all.  You need to look at game situations. When you do that, I don't see anything wrong with either O'Brien's or McDaniels' play calling.  What people forget is that Weis had a lot of dud drives too and at times went quite pass heavy when the situation required it.  The biggest difference between the Weis teams and recent teams has been the defense.  The Pats won low scoring games in 2003 and 2004.  Recently they haven't been able to. The exception was at the beginning of this season before the defense was decimated with injury.  I posted numerous times that I really liked the way the defense was able to control the pace of games again, much like they did in 2003 and 2004.  Unfortunately, the injuries have taken that away from them and we've become highly dependent on a high scoring offense again.  O'Brien and McDaniels have both provided that in the past, but now injuries there are hurting us too. 

     

    What I completely disagree with, though, is that the play calling is somehow a problem or that a change in offensive play calls would suddenly result in a higher scoring offense or, more absurdly, a better defense.  I see absolutely no evidence of that. 

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest


    There we have it. Bill Obrien had just as much of an impact as Charlie weiss did. Prolate nailed it.

    Hey, here is one, guess which coordinator matches up with the following super bowl outcome...in no particular order....

     

    Win 13 points scored

    Win 24 points scored

    Win 32 points scored

    Loss 14 points scored

    Loss 17 points scored(although they gave 2 points away)

    Super bonus what do the following numbers represent?

    14

    20

    17

    Oh, heck I'll give it to you...Points scored against the giants defense, 

    in 3 games in a row(2 of them being SB's Frown) keep In mind the gints averaged a bottom ranked run defense yet we had 135 pass attempts to 55 rush attempts for our offense in those 3 games....would weiss have done that against a bad run defense? Um, no.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    There we have it. Bill Obrien had just as much of an impact as Charlie weiss did. Prolate nailed it.

    Hey, here is one, guess which coordinator matches up with the following super bowl outcome...in no particular order....

     

    Win 13 points scored

    Win 24 points scored

    Win 32 points scored

    Loss 14 points scored

    Loss 17 points scored(although they gave 2 points away)

    Super bonus what do the following numbers represent?

    14

    20

    17

    Oh, heck I'll give it to you...Points scored against the giants defense, 

    in 3 games in a row(2 of them being SB's Frown) keep In mind the gints averaged a bottom ranked run defense yet we had 135 pass attempts to 55 rush attempts for our offense in those 3 games....would weiss have done that against a bad run defense? Um, no.

     

     

    Or maybe the Pats scored 32 points with Weis calling the plays because their defense kept giving them the ball back . . .

     


    Compare it to what O'Brien had to play call around (compare time of possession, in particular):

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok second try...

     

    1. obrien   2010

    2.    Weis  2000

      

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok second try...

     

    1. obrien   2010

    2.    Weis  2000

      

    [/QUOTE]

    You've got number 1 right now (both coordinator and season).  Number 2 is Weis, but it's 2002, not 2000.  That season was one of the Pats least balanced in terms of pass-run ratio in the Belichick era.  I'd have to go back and check, but I think 2002 and 2011 were the two seasons under Belichick where the Pats offense was most skewed toward the pass.  

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok second try...

     

    1. obrien   2010

    2.    Weis  2000

      

    [/QUOTE]

    You've got number 1 right now (both coordinator and season).  Number 2 is Weis, but it's 2002, not 2000.  That season was one of the Pats least balanced in terms of pass-run ratio in the Belichick era.  I'd have to go back and check, but I think 2002 and 2011 were the two seasons under Belichick where the Pats offense was most skewed toward the pass.  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting...   I thought the Bledsoe season might have been skewed like that...  Turns out it was 2002 the odd failed season where they couldn't back up the super bowl win.  I do remember Weis and Brady coming out firing that year but ultimately they came up short... 

    But what happened the next 2 years...?   And this is the point of the OC discussion...  Weis and Brady evolved after that failed season and went back to building a balanced creative offense.  I think this was when the bubble WR screen was invented.  Wasn't that a Charklie Weis invention...?   Patriots were the first team to exploit that play then everyone copied it.  

    Then Patriots win the next 2 super Bowls with Antowain Smith and Corey dillon.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    There we have it. Bill Obrien had just as much of an impact as Charlie weiss did. Prolate nailed it.

    Hey, here is one, guess which coordinator matches up with the following super bowl outcome...in no particular order....

     

    Win 13 points scored

    Win 24 points scored

    Win 32 points scored

    Loss 14 points scored

    Loss 17 points scored(although they gave 2 points away)

    Super bonus what do the following numbers represent?

    14

    20

    17

    Oh, heck I'll give it to you...Points scored against the giants defense, 

    in 3 games in a row(2 of them being SB's Frown) keep In mind the gints averaged a bottom ranked run defense yet we had 135 pass attempts to 55 rush attempts for our offense in those 3 games....would weiss have done that against a bad run defense? Um, no.

     

     

    Or maybe the Pats scored 32 points with Weis calling the plays because their defense kept giving them the ball back . . .

     


    Compare it to what O'Brien had to play call around (compare time of possession, in particular):

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah, the defense was AMAZING!. Especially the 230 yards and 3 tds in the 4rth qtr! And the 5.8 yards per run they gave up.....wayyyyy better then the 2007 and 2011 defense!

    Hey maybe weiss pounding a slow prodding antowian smith 28 times at a whopping 3.3 ypc correlated to scoring 32 points by weakening the carolina vaunted defensive line.....you know like the giants had??

    I don't expect you to answer that.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok second try...

     

    1. obrien   2010

    2.    Weis  2000

      

    [/QUOTE]

    You've got number 1 right now (both coordinator and season).  Number 2 is Weis, but it's 2002, not 2000.  That season was one of the Pats least balanced in terms of pass-run ratio in the Belichick era.  I'd have to go back and check, but I think 2002 and 2011 were the two seasons under Belichick where the Pats offense was most skewed toward the pass.  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting...   I thought the Bledsoe season might have been skewed like that...  Turns out it was 2002 the odd failed season where they couldn't back up the super bowl win.  I do remember Weis and Brady coming out firing that year but ultimately they came up short... 

    But what happened the next 2 years...?   And this is the point of the OC discussion...  Weis and Brady evolved after that failed season and went back to building a balanced creative offense.  I think this was when the bubble WR screen was invented.  Wasn't that a Charklie Weis invention...?   Patriots were the first team to exploit that play then everyone copied it.  

    Then Patriots win the next 2 super Bowls with Antowain Smith and Corey dillon.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the biggest issue in 2002 was the defense.  It dropped to 23rd in yards and 17th in points.  In 2003 it was 7th in yards and 1st in points. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     



    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok second try...

     

    1. obrien   2010

    2.    Weis  2000

      

    [/QUOTE]

    You've got number 1 right now (both coordinator and season).  Number 2 is Weis, but it's 2002, not 2000.  That season was one of the Pats least balanced in terms of pass-run ratio in the Belichick era.  I'd have to go back and check, but I think 2002 and 2011 were the two seasons under Belichick where the Pats offense was most skewed toward the pass.  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting...   I thought the Bledsoe season might have been skewed like that...  Turns out it was 2002 the odd failed season where they couldn't back up the super bowl win.  I do remember Weis and Brady coming out firing that year but ultimately they came up short... 

    But what happened the next 2 years...?   And this is the point of the OC discussion...  Weis and Brady evolved after that failed season and went back to building a balanced creative offense.  I think this was when the bubble WR screen was invented.  Wasn't that a Charklie Weis invention...?   Patriots were the first team to exploit that play then everyone copied it.  

    Then Patriots win the next 2 super Bowls with Antowain Smith and Corey dillon.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Antowian smith was old and had like 600 rushing yards,  which lead to kevin faulk being the lead back. Prolate has picked a heavily skewed season in order to support his agenda that one coordinator is apparently as good as the next.

    I think that was the year they split time starting. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just vanilla stats that don't say anything.

    It's not the number or ratio of plays.

    It's situational game calling, when a certain play is run and how it's run. It's adjusting to the flow of the game. It's reacting to how your moves are being countered....not checkers...chess. It's a boxer cutting a fighter and going after that cut without mercy. It's about being a legend in game time adjustments, and remarkable half time adjustments..

    It's about not guzzling copious amount of kool aid.

    But, we all have our own beliefs, that's what makes us fans...and fans can do and say whatever they darn well feel like...without them professional sports ceases to exist.

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

    Think of it this way. If you were on the other team defending against the Pats, on a critical 3rd down and 4-5, would your D be focusing on the run or the pass? Usually, they have to guess. When defending the Pats, you do not have to guess. Half the time it's empty back. Half of the remaining half, you have the RB next to TB to block, but it's still a pass.

    I am sure people in the NFL - people who have studied the Pats over the last 7 years - also know who TB's going to pass to, where on the field and how, 80% of the time.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    spending 5 minutes just looking at the numbers...

    1.  Weis

    2.  Obrien

    3. Mcdaniels

     

    bonus guesses... 

      1 . 2001

     2.  2011

    3.  2006

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right on choice 3 (both coordinator and season).  Wrong on first two. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok second try...

     

    1. obrien   2010

    2.    Weis  2000

      

    [/QUOTE]

    You've got number 1 right now (both coordinator and season).  Number 2 is Weis, but it's 2002, not 2000.  That season was one of the Pats least balanced in terms of pass-run ratio in the Belichick era.  I'd have to go back and check, but I think 2002 and 2011 were the two seasons under Belichick where the Pats offense was most skewed toward the pass.  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting...   I thought the Bledsoe season might have been skewed like that...  Turns out it was 2002 the odd failed season where they couldn't back up the super bowl win.  I do remember Weis and Brady coming out firing that year but ultimately they came up short... 

    But what happened the next 2 years...?   And this is the point of the OC discussion...  Weis and Brady evolved after that failed season and went back to building a balanced creative offense.  I think this was when the bubble WR screen was invented.  Wasn't that a Charklie Weis invention...?   Patriots were the first team to exploit that play then everyone copied it.  

    Then Patriots win the next 2 super Bowls with Antowain Smith and Corey dillon.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Antowian smith was old and had like 600 rushing yards,  which lead to kevin faulk being the lead back. Prolate has picked a heavily skewed season in order to support his agenda that one coordinator is apparently as good as the next.

    I think that was the year they split time starting. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Or maybe the point is that run-pass ratio is really dependent on situation.  Maybe Weis threw a lot in 2002 because the defense wasn't that good.  Maybe that's why O'Brien and McDaniels have been throwing a lot too?  It's not a coincidence that the great (winning) ball control offenses are complemented by strong defenses.  Teams with ball control offenses and weak defenses are typically terrible teams.

     

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    There we have it. Bill Obrien had just as much of an impact as Charlie weiss did. Prolate nailed it.

    Hey, here is one, guess which coordinator matches up with the following super bowl outcome...in no particular order....

     

    Win 13 points scored

    Win 24 points scored

    Win 32 points scored

    Loss 14 points scored

    Loss 17 points scored(although they gave 2 points away)

    Super bonus what do the following numbers represent?

    14

    20

    17

    Oh, heck I'll give it to you...Points scored against the giants defense, 

    in 3 games in a row(2 of them being SB's Frown) keep In mind the gints averaged a bottom ranked run defense yet we had 135 pass attempts to 55 rush attempts for our offense in those 3 games....would weiss have done that against a bad run defense? Um, no.

     

     

    Or maybe the Pats scored 32 points with Weis calling the plays because their defense kept giving them the ball back . . .

     


    Compare it to what O'Brien had to play call around (compare time of possession, in particular):

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah, the defense was AMAZING!. Especially the 230 yards and 3 tds in the 4rth qtr! And the 5.8 yards per run they gave up.....wayyyyy better then the 2007 and 2011 defense!

    Hey maybe weiss pounding a slow prodding antowian smith 28 times at a whopping 3.3 ypc correlated to scoring 32 points by weakening the carolina vaunted defensive line.....you know like the giants had??

    I don't expect you to answer that.

    [/QUOTE]

    The fourth quarter was crazy in that game, but before the Panthers started scoring in the fourth, the Pats had already scored three TDs in 10 drives.  At roughly the same time in the Giants game, they had scored two TDs and one FG in 7 drives.  In the Panthers game they got 3 more drives once the craziness started.  In the Giants game, just 2 more. Having a defense that can get the other team off the field fast makes a huge difference. 

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    There we have it. Bill Obrien had just as much of an impact as Charlie weiss did. Prolate nailed it.

    Hey, here is one, guess which coordinator matches up with the following super bowl outcome...in no particular order....

     

    Win 13 points scored

    Win 24 points scored

    Win 32 points scored

    Loss 14 points scored

    Loss 17 points scored(although they gave 2 points away)

    Super bonus what do the following numbers represent?

    14

    20

    17

    Oh, heck I'll give it to you...Points scored against the giants defense, 

    in 3 games in a row(2 of them being SB's Frown) keep In mind the gints averaged a bottom ranked run defense yet we had 135 pass attempts to 55 rush attempts for our offense in those 3 games....would weiss have done that against a bad run defense? Um, no.

     

     

    Or maybe the Pats scored 32 points with Weis calling the plays because their defense kept giving them the ball back . . .

     


    Compare it to what O'Brien had to play call around (compare time of possession, in particular):



    Oh yeah, the defense was AMAZING!. Especially the 230 yards and 3 tds in the 4rth qtr! And the 5.8 yards per run they gave up.....wayyyyy better then the 2007 and 2011 defense!

    Hey maybe weiss pounding a slow prodding antowian smith 28 times at a whopping 3.3 ypc correlated to scoring 32 points by weakening the carolina vaunted defensive line.....you know like the giants had??

    I don't expect you to answer that.

    [/QUOTE]

    The fourth quarter was crazy in that game, but before the Panthers started scoring in the fourth, the Pats had already scored three TDs in 10 drives.  At roughly the same time in the Giants game, they had scored two TDs and one FG in 7 drives.  In the Panthers game they got 3 more drives once the craziness started.  In the Giants game, just 2 more. Having a defense that can get the other team off the field fast makes a huge difference. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Right...  complimentary football.  the ball control always helps, however.  Meaning It doesn't matter the quality of your defense , you are better off holding the ball moving the chains burning clock until you are so far behind in the game that you need to preserve clock.   

    So a balanced offense can give you a lead and then your balanced offense can preserve the lead.  Going one dimensional early in the game is just stupid because you are abandoning a basic advantage of football which is the run-pass option which keeps a defense honest.  So it's not just about the clock it is about gaining yardage and slowing down the pass rush. 


    FAIL...  in the perfectly obvious detailed and analyzed example of SB42(see other thread "...O'brien").   Favored by 14 points.   Complete and utter failure by the OC to produce a balanced and therefore more difficult to defend offense. Further the lack of any creative or imaginative plays is a further indictment of this linear beligerent approach.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    Here's one of the myths, though.  The Pats, for the most part, had shorter drives in the Weis Super Bowls than in the later Super Bowls.  

    The big difference is the length of their opponents' drives.  Those drives were short in the 2003 and 2004 super bowls but longer in the later super bowls.  That wasn't the offense's fault.  It was the defense's.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    No doubt the defense could have shut down Eli better on those early drives but overall the score was kept down and the opportunity for the offense was right there for the taking.  The 3rd possession was where this game was lost.  

    After 2 possessions you have gotten a picture of what the defense was doing and conversely you have given the defense a picture of what you are doing. 

    Point is...  DO Something Different.   Just trotting out the same crap, thinking that you will continue winnig the same matchups over and over with WElkie on player A is just dumb linear thinking.    They are making adjustments too .  So You have to change and give them more to worry about.  Simple as that.  They didn't and Brady was sacked twice.  Ball game. since the following 5 possessions were same crap same result : punt ,fumble, punt , punt. ( and a turnover on downs rather than attempt a 48 yard FG).

    so I'm not so quick to blame the defense even though there were opportunites there to pick up the underperforming offense but it didn't happen.  But clearly the offense, more specifically the BBOC, blew this game.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No doubt the defense could have shut down Eli better on those early drives but overall the score was kept down and the opportunity for the offense was right there for the taking.  The 3rd possession was where this game was lost.  

    After 2 possessions you have gotten a picture of what the defense was doing and conversely you have given the defense a picture of what you are doing. 

    Point is...  DO Something Different.   Just trotting out the same crap, thinking that you will continue winnig the same matchups over and over with WElkie on player A is just dumb linear thinking.    They are making adjustments too .  So You have to change and give them more to worry about.  Simple as that.  They didn't and Brady was sacked twice.  Ball game. since the following 5 possessions were same crap same result : punt ,fumble, punt , punt. ( and a turnover on downs rather than attempt a 48 yard FG).

    so I'm not so quick to blame the defense even though there were opportunites there to pick up the underperforming offense but it didn't happen.  But clearly the offense, more specifically the BBOC, blew this game.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The offense didn't deliver.  But really, I don't see signs that different plays would have changed the way the Giants' D line was beating our O line, both in the pass and the run.  To me, the 2007 Super Bowl was won and lost in the trenches.  Tuck, Strahan, and Osi were way more talented then guys like Kazcur and Hochstein.  

    Read this and weep:

    Additionally, the Giants made plans to blitz out of formations from which they had been passive in the Week 17 meeting, and to sit back out of formations from which they'd blitzed. Seven minutes into the second quarter, Mitchell lined up over center Dan Koppen's nose in one of the A gaps, with Pierce in the other A gap, a look Spagnuolo learned from his mentor, Jim Johnson, the late Eagles defensive coordinator. At the snap Mitchell took two steps back as if to bail—which he had done in Week 17—and then sprinted at Brady for a sack. "Nobody even touched me," says Mitchell.

    The Patriots weren't surprised that New York brought pressure. Their response? "We wanted to run the ball," says Heath Evans, the Pats fullback who retired in 2011 and now works for the NFL Network. "I called my father the week of the game and said, 'I'm going to get 40 snaps, because we're going to run it down their throats. We didn't do that because one guy couldn't do his job." Evans would not name the one guy. (Pierce has a guess: "Mankins. Tuck was tough on him.")

    Stephen Neal, who started the game at right guard for New England, says, "We had a really balanced game plan based on running the ball and staying out of third-and-long, because they had some really good blitzes." The Patriots had averaged 28.4 runs in 2007 and had only two games in which they ran the ball fewer than 22 times. But despite the low score in Super Bowl XLII, they rushed just 16 times, matching their second-lowest total of the year. (Neal left the game in the second quarter with a torn right MCL.)

    Brady would throw 48 passes, his second-highest total of the year. He would complete 29 for 5.54 yards per attempt, his second-lowest average of the year. And he would be under siege nearly every time he dropped back. "The level of execution the Giants brought that night was almost unmatched in my experience," says Kyle Brady. "The speed with which they moved in their stunts and pressures—just a tremendous pace."

    Russ Hochstein, 34, the veteran offensive lineman who came in for Neal in Super Bowl XLII and who has played the last three seasons with the Broncos, says, "We wanted to run the ball and we didn't have success. And they had a phenomenal pass rush. Tuck, Osi, Strahan. They were fast and they confused us, absolutely. The speed and intensity of the game, like all Super Bowls, was phenomenal. That game is played at another level. Guys who have never played in a Super Bowl, they don't know that. But it just is."

    The Giants sacked Brady five times, hit him nine more times and almost never let him relax on his reads. "Brady stayed in there," says Mitchell. "I remember that. He's a great quarterback. Tough guy. But it really doesn't matter how great a guy is when the pressure just keeps coming like that."

     

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Guess the Offensive Coordinator Contest

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No doubt the defense could have shut down Eli better on those early drives but overall the score was kept down and the opportunity for the offense was right there for the taking.  The 3rd possession was where this game was lost.  

    After 2 possessions you have gotten a picture of what the defense was doing and conversely you have given the defense a picture of what you are doing. 

    Point is...  DO Something Different.   Just trotting out the same crap, thinking that you will continue winnig the same matchups over and over with WElkie on player A is just dumb linear thinking.    They are making adjustments too .  So You have to change and give them more to worry about.  Simple as that.  They didn't and Brady was sacked twice.  Ball game. since the following 5 possessions were same crap same result : punt ,fumble, punt , punt. ( and a turnover on downs rather than attempt a 48 yard FG).

    so I'm not so quick to blame the defense even though there were opportunites there to pick up the underperforming offense but it didn't happen.  But clearly the offense, more specifically the BBOC, blew this game.

     



    The offense didn't deliver.  But really, I don't see signs that different plays would have changed the way the Giants' D line was beating our O line, both in the pass and the run.  To me, the 2007 Super Bowl was won and lost in the trenches.  Tuck, Strahan, and Osi were way more talented then guys like Kazcur and Hochstein.  

    Read this and weep:

    Additionally, the Giants made plans to blitz out of formations from which they had been passive in the Week 17 meeting, and to sit back out of formations from which they'd blitzed. Seven minutes into the second quarter, Mitchell lined up over center Dan Koppen's nose in one of the A gaps, with Pierce in the other A gap, a look Spagnuolo learned from his mentor, Jim Johnson, the late Eagles defensive coordinator. At the snap Mitchell took two steps back as if to bail—which he had done in Week 17—and then sprinted at Brady for a sack. "Nobody even touched me," says Mitchell.

    The Patriots weren't surprised that New York brought pressure. Their response? "We wanted to run the ball," says Heath Evans, the Pats fullback who retired in 2011 and now works for the NFL Network. "I called my father the week of the game and said, 'I'm going to get 40 snaps, because we're going to run it down their throats. We didn't do that because one guy couldn't do his job." Evans would not name the one guy. (Pierce has a guess: "Mankins. Tuck was tough on him.")

    Stephen Neal, who started the game at right guard for New England, says, "We had a really balanced game plan based on running the ball and staying out of third-and-long, because they had some really good blitzes." The Patriots had averaged 28.4 runs in 2007 and had only two games in which they ran the ball fewer than 22 times. But despite the low score in Super Bowl XLII, they rushed just 16 times, matching their second-lowest total of the year. (Neal left the game in the second quarter with a torn right MCL.)

    Brady would throw 48 passes, his second-highest total of the year. He would complete 29 for 5.54 yards per attempt, his second-lowest average of the year. And he would be under siege nearly every time he dropped back. "The level of execution the Giants brought that night was almost unmatched in my experience," says Kyle Brady. "The speed with which they moved in their stunts and pressures—just a tremendous pace."

    Russ Hochstein, 34, the veteran offensive lineman who came in for Neal in Super Bowl XLII and who has played the last three seasons with the Broncos, says, "We wanted to run the ball and we didn't have success. And they had a phenomenal pass rush. Tuck, Osi, Strahan. They were fast and they confused us, absolutely. The speed and intensity of the game, like all Super Bowls, was phenomenal. That game is played at another level. Guys who have never played in a Super Bowl, they don't know that. But it just is."

    The Giants sacked Brady five times, hit him nine more times and almost never let him relax on his reads. "Brady stayed in there," says Mitchell. "I remember that. He's a great quarterback. Tough guy. But it really doesn't matter how great a guy is when the pressure just keeps coming like that."

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    yeah...  I get that  the Jints Dline played like they were on Crack-Addderal-meth IVs but that is really beside the point because your sentence implies that  a Dline can dictate the entire game when they are merely 4 players out of 11  who happen to be using some clever stunts and playing with "energy".

    The calling of plays is the ONLYway to approach this mismatch once you have identified it.  This is the singular JOB of the OC...  The first problem is identifying it.  It is on the coaches to make these judgments and start attacking the sidelines or using trap block running plays that exploit mobile Dlines.  You mention the running plays that were stuffed.   Well maybe they were not blocked with the right blocking scheme.   To judge your running game on a couple Maroney runs is limited at best.   He was not the best back at hitting holes. Because of the relative success of the short passing game the amateur OC move is to just go shotgun and start throwing it .  This doesn't solve the Dline problem.

    As an OC you need to have 4 or 5 contingency plans for these kinds of developments in a game. If you don't then you just stubbornly keep trying to impose your limited offense hoping "better execution" will win out...  Well maybe you're attacking the wrong area of the field.  Start attacking another area.  Change . evolve.  Move.    This is the indictment of this offensive system.  It is too rigid and limited.  On top of that...  Because of the complexity the young players aren't able to grasp the full playbook .  What's up with that...?  Do you know how stupid that sounds...?  

    "We're so sophisticated our own players aren't getting it..."    Wow.  9 years later and the full picture has been laid out.  F.A.I.L.  or...  just good enough for the AFC east with some friendly officiating but not so much in a physical battle with better teams.  It appears that not only was Weis the better OC than the others , he may have been the singular reason that this BB limited team got out of its own way and won the title at all.

     

     
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