Happy 65th Number 4

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    Lol you have your opinion, I have mine, Rusty. I don't really care if you think I lost credibility. Gretzky holds just about every record known to man and those two are far and away the PPG leaders in NHL history so I don't think its that far fetched...if you don't like my opinion then move along. What does it matter if a guy is not tough when he's putting up nearly 2 points a game and guiding his team to multiple Stanley Cup wins?

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Your thread started off with greatest Boston athlete ever.  Orr belongs on the short list. My top 4 list as follows;

    1. Bill Russell (number 1 without a doubt)

    2. Larry Bird 

    3. Bobby Orr

    4. Tom Brady 



    Exactly how I would have listed 'em.  No question Orr was great but Russell was beyond great (if that can be said of anyone).  Those who actually saw him play witnessed him doing things on the court that have yet to be replicated by anyone who has ever played the game.  

    Disclaimer:  Russ was my idol while I was groing up so, no, I am not at all objective.  But, hey, I don't  have to be - I'm a fan.

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    ...


    That is a great line. I also liked Sinden's when comparing Orr and Bourque even if it was Harry trying to be nice to Bourque at the time:

     

    "If I am up by 1, I want Ray. If I am down by 1, I want Bobby.



    Bourque was another all-time great.  Deserves a spot on the all time great Boston list if you make it a top ten, even if he had to leave to win a cup, ugh...that still annoys me.

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    ...


    That is a great line. I also liked Sinden's when comparing Orr and Bourque even if it was Harry trying to be nice to Bourque at the time:

     

    "If I am up by 1, I want Ray. If I am down by 1, I want Bobby.

     



    Bourque was another all-time great.  Deserves a spot on the all time great Boston list if you make it a top ten, even if he had to leave to win a cup, ugh...that still annoys me.

     




    My all-time favorite player, no question. Sakic letting Bourque be the first to lift the Cup is one of my favorite moments ever...

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    Any list of boston greats that does not have Pedro in the top 5 is not completee imo. He was so good at times that contact was not expected. However if we are talking pure athletics...havlicek was a freak. As with all lists its in the eye of the beholder.

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

     

    Lol you have your opinion, I have mine, Rusty. I don't really care if you think I lost credibility. Gretzky holds just about every record known to man and those two are far and away the PPG leaders in NHL history so I don't think its that far fetched...if you don't like my opinion then move along. What does it matter if a guy is not tough when he's putting up nearly 2 points a game and guiding his team to multiple Stanley Cup wins?

     



    You said Lemieux above Orr, which no one who is a legit fan would do, and then said "by far".

     

    Dude, that's pretty embarrassing short of some Penguins homer who doesn't know anything about the NHL and its history.

    Playing hockey is more than just cherrypicking at the blue line, demanding power plays to boost your stats, not playing any defense whatsover and playing around a loaded cast like Lemieux did for the majority of his career.

    That's not disparage what a great passer he was (I rank him 3rd best passer I've seen behind Gretzky and Adam Oates), but Gretzky>Lemieux and at best it's a toss up between Orr or Gretzky.

    There is no real negative with Orr, where you can point to a negative with Gretzky and many with Lemieux.

    For someone as big as a Lemieux, too, it's somewhat sad he was such a puss.




    Its kind of difficult to base an opinion off of highlight reels only. If I had seen Bobby play live I'm sure I would have thought differently. I bet some old-timers would have a problem with me thinking some modern day QBs were better than Johnny Unitas too...the key word is opinion, I'm not saying its a fact.

    Sorry to derail your thread Muz, Rusty's "no legit fan" BS pi55es me off.

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    I only used "by far" about Gretzky, not Lemieux. Its a silly argument anyways, all were great players. Lets leave it at that.

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    Most beautiful things in sports:

     

    Watching Orr go end to end

    Watching Jim Brown break 4 or 5 tackles on a simple 10 yard gain, which he did every three or four plays

    Watching Bob Gibson pitching in the World Series

    Watching Bill Russell block a shot from behind, control the shot, and start a fast break with a dead on outlet pass

     

     




    i don't mean this the wrong way but-great as thes guys were and great as this list is-not one of these guys played past 1975! you are going to tell me there is no athlete/skill that equals or tops these in the past 40 years?! especially withthe great decade the city of boston/new england had recently? it's both silly and sad the way Americans are so lost in the past-the myth if the past a lot more than the reality

    with all the greats that have come thru boston in the past 40 yrs this is where ur stuck?

    then again i have the unfashionable opinion that a lot of greats from back when maybe wouldn't be so great in the curent game as todays athletes are so much bigger faster and stronger and the games have evolved ie: they are played on a higher level skills wise

    that's why i don't really compare era's i just enjoy each for what it was/is on it's own terms

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    42AND46, I understand your point.  And, as I indicated, earlier, I am not objective but I've never seen anyone do things that Russell did routinely.  The blocked shot scenario that Alfred-E-etc referred to had to be seen to be understood for the feat of skill and athleticism that it was.  I have yet to see anyone come close to doing that and Russell often did it multiple times in one game.

    OK, I'll take anymore ranting about Russ to the Celtics forum.

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Your thread started off with greatest Boston athlete ever.  Orr belongs on the short list. My top 4 list as follows;

    1. Bill Russell (number 1 without a doubt)

    2. Larry Bird 

    3. Bobby Orr

    4. Tom Brady

     

    No Teddy Ballgame, he of the lifetime on base percentage of .480? 




     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

     

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

     

     

    I only used "by far" about Gretzky, not Lemieux. Its a silly argument anyways, all were great players. Lets leave it at that.

     




    Well, you still placed Lemieux above Orr which was bad enough.   It's clear the case I laid out above isn't changing your mind, so you're right. Nice backpedal. lol

     

     

     



    What do you mean? You made several good points as to why you rate Orr higher than everyone else which I can agree with. I'll agree with you that Orr was a better all around player. 

     

    Not quite sure how I backpedaled though, I didn't have anything else to say about it. Here is my definitive top 4 (only the first spot is set in stone imo because you can't argue with 4 cups and leading the league in scoring just about every season, 8 consecutive Hart Trophies, 92 goals in a single season, etc etc. 2-4 is up for debate, rank em in any order you want to and I would be fine with it).

    Gretzky

    Howe, Orr, Lemieux

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    ....

    Take a look at this highlight video here and ask yourself if you ever saw Nick Lidstrom score any goal remotely near some of these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPg0ARPeDmc

    A lot of those games I see in this video in the mid/late 80s and 90s, I was at, too. 

     

     



    Great clips! Nice to hear Fred Cusik too. Sad to see Normand Leveille, though. Talk about tragic, poised to become a star.

    Bourque might be the third best all-around defenseman after Orr and Potvin. I'd say Coffey was the second best offensive d-man, fast as hell, but not close to Orr or Bourque defensively. Larry Robinson is up there as well.  Scott Stevens wasn't a scorer, but he could play on my team nevertheless.

    So, I'll pair Orr and Robinson, Bourque and Stevens and Potvin and Coffey and that's my rotation.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    ....

    Take a look at this highlight video here and ask yourself if you ever saw Nick Lidstrom score any goal remotely near some of these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPg0ARPeDmc

    A lot of those games I see in this video in the mid/late 80s and 90s, I was at, too. 

     

     



    Great clips! Nice to hear Fred Cusik too. Sad to see Normand Leveille, though. Talk about tragic, poised to become a star.

     

    Bourque might be the third best all-around defenseman after Orr and Potvin. I'd say Coffey was the second best offensive d-man, fast as hell, but not close to Orr or Bourque defensively. Larry Robinson is up there as well.  Scott Stevens wasn't a scorer, but he could play on my team nevertheless.

    So, I'll pair Orr and Robinson, Bourque and Stevens and Potvin and Coffey and that's my rotation.



    Not bad lol. No Doug Harvey in there?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    ....

    Take a look at this highlight video here and ask yourself if you ever saw Nick Lidstrom score any goal remotely near some of these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPg0ARPeDmc

    A lot of those games I see in this video in the mid/late 80s and 90s, I was at, too. 

     

     



    Great clips! Nice to hear Fred Cusik too. Sad to see Normand Leveille, though. Talk about tragic, poised to become a star.

     

    Bourque might be the third best all-around defenseman after Orr and Potvin. I'd say Coffey was the second best offensive d-man, fast as hell, but not close to Orr or Bourque defensively. Larry Robinson is up there as well.  Scott Stevens wasn't a scorer, but he could play on my team nevertheless.

    So, I'll pair Orr and Robinson, Bourque and Stevens and Potvin and Coffey and that's my rotation.

     



    Not bad lol. No Doug Harvey in there?

     



    Yeah, Harvey. I guess I should qualify it by saying of people I saw play. But Harvey is an all-time great no doubt.  

    I think Harvey said of Orr, that he was glad he played when he did because Orr was going to win the Norris Trophy from here on out. Something like that. And he did.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to jri37's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    ....

    So, I'll pair Orr and Robinson, Bourque and Stevens and Potvin and Coffey and that's my rotation.  

     




     

    So I guess Al Iafrate isn't cracking this line-up. Perhaps they could keep him around just in case any of those defensemen need a Marlboro or a fifth of Jack.



    Ha! No, big Al comes up a little short of the list, but he was as entertaining as anybody. Actually had some talent as I recall. He can play on the other team with Bobby Schmautz and Eddie Shack. 

     
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    Re: Happy 65th Number 4

    In response to stan17's comment:

    Bobby Orr was the best player period. I can't believe someone said Mike Bossy was better, he was widely considered the 3rd best player on his team behind Potvin and Trottier. 




    +1.

     

    You had to see Orr. You can't just go by the stats, even though his were great. He had this calm, effortless, almost supernatural grace that transcended the game...sorta like wathcing a ballet dancer in a room full of pro wrestlers. Could go from a standstill to full speed in just a couple of strides. He did everything well, and was CLUTCH in the biggest games.

    Never be another.

     

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