Hard times for BB.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Babe I think there is some good news to come out of this. 

    Belichick seemed particularly humbled at the postgame press conference. I think he realized that his team was simply outmatched talent wise in significant areas. He realizes that while injuries played a part, he can't simply tag this year's loss on tough luck and players going down. Seeing his guys get physically dominated helped him to realize even though he is smarter at "coaching 'em up" than the guy across from him, that in the heart of the postseason, it's not enough. 

    He realizes that when the other team holds the ball for most of the game, he's not going to win. 

    I believe he will make some changes on his personnel philosophy as a result. 

    Fortunately, unlike his apologists in here who excuse his GM shortcomings, Belichick is not above reflection and change. And I believe he will change and that the roster we see on opening day next year will reflect those changes. This Welker thing is going to eat at him in the best way possible. Belichick is a champion and he won't take this lying down.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    He hasn't gotten the team building job done. Dramatic changes are in order or the result will not change. Epic Fails.

    I honestly don't think he will change a thing, because he is too much of a control freak and psychologically can't handle it.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Three Conference Championships and 2 SBs lost in the last 8 seasons that without past glory he would be considered an epic fail.

    Still reviled over spygate and forever labeled a cheater by many.

    Two longtime coaches gone in as many days.

    Still standing in the shadow of acquiring a now accused murderer.

    Being mocked far and wide for statements made about the Welker hit.

     

    Things have taken a dramatic turn for BB since the glory days of 2001-2004.

    [/QUOTE]

    Again another idiotic thread from from a huge whiner.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    More SB appearances since 2001 than any other team in the league and making the playoffs year after year.  Recognizing effectiveness is hardly being an apologist. 

    Perfect as a GM?  Hardly.  But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.

    Seems to me that rebuilding the team so that it is now one of the two youngest teams in the league while remaining competitive is hardly hard times. 

    The team lost 6 major contributors, 3 on each side of the ball, and yet made it to the AFC Championship game.

    Tom Brady a factor?  Of course, but early in the year the team couldn't score on the little sister's of the poor and the team still won.

    Say what you will this is one hell of a football franchise with widely regarded ownership, effective management and superior coaching. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    More SB appearances since 2001 than any other team in the league and making the playoffs year after year.  Recognizing effectiveness is hardly being an apologist. 

    Perfect as a GM?  Hardly.  But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.

    Seems to me that rebuilding the team so that it is now one of the two youngest teams in the league while remaining competitive is hardly hard times. 

    The team lost 6 major contributors, 3 on each side of the ball, and yet made it to the AFC Championship game.

    Tom Brady a factor?  Of course, but early in the year the team couldn't score on the little sister's of the poor and the team still won.

    Say what you will this is one hell of a football franchise with widely regarded ownership, effective management and superior coaching. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Very  well put. I simply don't understand why the BB discussion has to be so black and white as Babe and Russell endlessly opine on every thread ruined.

    BB is an amazing coach, GM and leader of this organization. Many of us do not agree with his every decision, but want no one else leading this team. The future is very bright and many more AFC division titles are there for the taking, but much work still needs to be done to get that next SB. 

    Period. 

    This board should be about each armchair GM or coach discussing their point of view on improving the team. Pointing out perceived mistakes by the coach, GM, owner or players is fair game, not a personal attack. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    Brady has carried each team for longer than anyone could expect anyone to, only to have the defense fail time and time again. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    More SB appearances since 2001 than any other team in the league and making the playoffs year after year.  Recognizing effectiveness is hardly being an apologist. 

    Perfect as a GM?  Hardly.  But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.

    Seems to me that rebuilding the team so that it is now one of the two youngest teams in the league while remaining competitive is hardly hard times. 

    The team lost 6 major contributors, 3 on each side of the ball, and yet made it to the AFC Championship game.

    Tom Brady a factor?  Of course, but early in the year the team couldn't score on the little sister's of the poor and the team still won.

    Say what you will this is one hell of a football franchise with widely regarded ownership, effective management and superior coaching. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Ahhhh....someone who gets it!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Very  well put. I simply don't understand why the BB discussion has to be so black and white as Babe and Russell endlessly opine on every thread ruined.

    BB is an amazing coach, GM and leader of this organization. Many of us do not agree with his every decision, but want no one else leading this team. The future is very bright and many more AFC division titles are there for the taking, but much work still needs to be done to get that next SB. 

    Period. 

    This board should be about each armchair GM or coach discussing their point of view on improving the team. Pointing out perceived mistakes by the coach, GM, owner or players is fair game, not a personal attack. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Neither have a clue as how to actually interact with other adults. Unfortunately, they simply don't have that ability....and sadly (for them) never will. Both of them are 1000% closed minded fools, that can't stand listening to anyone's opinion but their own. It's been proven here 100 times over. It just gets to the point of "ignore" being the only answer.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    More SB appearances since 2001 than any other team in the league and making the playoffs year after year. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I never seem to hear Bills fans bragging about losing 4 SBs in a row. I wonder why. Maybe they just have higher standards about what is brag worthy.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Pointing out perceived mistakes by the coach, GM, owner or players is fair game, not a personal attack. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't see any Pats fans launching a personal attack against BB. Saying any Pats fans here are doing that is just a downright lie. I wouldn't even accuse Rusty of a personal attack on Brady.

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    More SB appearances since 2001 than any other team in the league and making the playoffs year after year.  Recognizing effectiveness is hardly being an apologist. 

    Perfect as a GM?  Hardly.  But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.

    Seems to me that rebuilding the team so that it is now one of the two youngest teams in the league while remaining competitive is hardly hard times. 

    The team lost 6 major contributors, 3 on each side of the ball, and yet made it to the AFC Championship game.

    Tom Brady a factor?  Of course, but early in the year the team couldn't score on the little sister's of the poor and the team still won.

    Say what you will this is one hell of a football franchise with widely regarded ownership, effective management and superior coaching. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I have nothing to add.  Well said.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Three Conference Championships and 2 SBs lost in the last 8 seasons that without past glory he would be considered an epic fail.

    Still reviled over spygate and forever labeled a cheater by many.

    Two longtime coaches gone in as many days.

    Still standing in the shadow of acquiring a now accused murderer.

    Being mocked far and wide for statements made about the Welker hit.

     

    Things have taken a dramatic turn for BB since the glory days of 2001-2004.

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe so babe, but I guarantee most nfl coaches and gm's would take his hard times over whatever sliver of success they may have had. 

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bunches of objective posts have been made documenting the mediocrity to the downright futility of the drafting.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For the 1st time ever I agree with Babe's opening staement. BB's time is up. I've been saying it for years. The NFL is about winning not competeing all year to get to the playoffs and fail.

    Why he is allowed by you fans to get away with it is beyond comprehension?? The so called "genius " hasn't finished in 11 years now and Brady is getting older by the minute.

    We all witnessed Brady's ineptness last Sunday. So between your old HC and old QB it's time for some radical changes in NE or you the fan will keep setling for 3rd and 4th place.

    So what else are guys whining ...I mean discussing today?

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess it is better than last place. Anyhow, it comes down to this....have 3-4 mediocre seasons in a row,and win a SB....or, compete every year with a chance at,the SB. the former when mediocre draft high in those 3-4 years, load up on high draft picks and FA's, cashing in their chips for a win. While the latter, builds a competitive year in and year out, drafting lower, not necessarily loading up for the big push. Which would you rather have?  consistent mediocrity and cashing it in for a win, or sustained success/chance at the ring every year? I know their are plenty of shades of gray in between these 2 scenarios. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BB has some work to do. Go visit the 2001-2004 Patriots, and replicate the defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Isn't it a mystery why he can"t? 

    Seems he can build an offense with only one REAL superstar surrounded by some good players, but, can't put together a defense which could have one superstar and a few real good players.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For the 1st time ever I agree with Babe's opening staement. BB's time is up. I've been saying it for years. The NFL is about winning not competeing all year to get to the playoffs and fail.

    Why he is allowed by you fans to get away with it is beyond comprehension?? The so called "genius " hasn't finished in 11 years now and Brady is getting older by the minute.

    We all witnessed Brady's ineptness last Sunday. So between your old HC and old QB it's time for some radical changes in NE or you the fan will keep setling for 3rd and 4th place.

    So what else are guys whining ...I mean discussing today?

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess it is better than last place. Anyhow, it comes down to this....have 3-4 mediocre seasons in a row,and win a SB....or, compete every year with a chance at,the SB. the former when mediocre draft high in those 3-4 years, load up on high draft picks and FA's, cashing in their chips for a win. While the latter, builds a competitive year in and year out, drafting lower, not necessarily loading up for the big push. Which would you rather have?  consistent mediocrity and cashing it in for a win, or sustained success/chance at the ring every year? I know their are plenty of shades of gray in between these 2 scenarios. 

    [/QUOTE]

    This fan base, which is already pounding the Pats for simply not winning a SB every year, would be unfathomly negative if the Pats were to go through a couple seasons or so of mediocre play.  Make that, a couple years or more of NOT making the playoffs if having a winning record at all.

    I know there are some here who can do the research, who can look up all those players on other teams who are Pro Bowl type players etc who were passed up by BB in the draft.  You know what I mean in that they were available for the Pats to draft but didn't.  I've read it plenty of times in which there are teams currently at the top who went through some hard times to get back to the top.  This within the same time span the Patriots are experiencing its current success.  Could it be the fact the Pats have sustained such a successful streak has impeded its opportunity to "rebuild" with higher caliber players since they are going to the less successful franchises who are drafting higher?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Baffle. Show Baffle's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    BB has some work to do. Go visit the 2001-2004 Patriots, and replicate the defense.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think he would need Carroll/Parcells to accomplish that.

    [/QUOTE]


    While Carroll/Parcells did aquire some top talent for Belichik to come in and make a superbowl run with (3 of 4!), isn't part of the equation that those coaches had the chips to work with after terrible teams in the 90s? Belichik the GM hasn't had that same stack to work with in the draft because of all the deep playoff runs. Carroll did it again when he went to last place Seattle. Parcells has done it multiple times with New England, Jets, Dallas, Miami. If Belichik the GM stepped into a losing franchise who had a few years of top draft picks, he wouldn't be able construct a team that could go get some superbowls?


    The Belichik is a terrible GM vs Brady is a choker debate are both kind of missing the point it seems to me.


    Belichik's coaching and team depth is what gets us into the Playoffs because there are terrible coaches that put out teams that can be ripped apart by scheme... but coaching alone won't win the big games because all Playoff team's have great coaching. Once in the playoffs, talent level makes the difference. Brady is dipping, but still one of the best in his position. Field general QBs, Dominating OL and  Shutdown Coverage make the difference, and how is Belichik the GM going to acquire talent in those positions when he regularly picks 28 through 31 in the draft order. Brady is one mandatory piece, but we are missing other critical pieces (Center. Shutdown Corner that makes it through the playoffs would be nice).

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pretty simple . If you want to win. out with the old, Brady and Bb and in with the new.

    11 years of nothing. the only thing that counts is the SB -nobody remembers 2nd 3rd or 4th place.Unless of course you are a fan of the "also rans".

    [/QUOTE]

    It appears what you are saying, Leon, is the Patriots fan base should learn to accept losing seasons for 2 - 3 years just to rebuild.  Is that the attitude of Jets' fans?  Losing seasons are OK since it means the team is "rebuilding"?  Talk about accepting nothing.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bunches of objective posts have been made documenting the mediocrity to the downright futility of the drafting.

    [/QUOTE]

    collectively speaking,mi don't know if the pats are inferior or mediocre at drafting. They typically make more picks than any other team. They will have their fair share of hits with misses. What pains me is the lack of return on 2nd and 3rd round picks. They typically do very well in round 1 and later in the draft including UDFAs. 

    Now some will say, what does it matter if they strike out in rounds 2-3 if they hit on players later or UDFAs? simply put, the quality of players they acquire late do not stack up against the quality they could have had in rounds 2-3. So, overall, you might get a deep roster, but is it one with lack of quality talent? Sure there are undrafted players that make it and play better than 1st rounders, but generally, the earlier you can acquire, the better quality of talent you get. Any arguments with this?

    i think the above gets exposed big time in the playoffs and when you have a severe rash of injuries. At that point you are heavily relying on players acquired late to deliver the same result as those acquired early. 

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to HeygangLH's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For the 1st time ever I agree with Babe's opening staement. BB's time is up. I've been saying it for years. The NFL is about winning not competeing all year to get to the playoffs and fail.

    Why he is allowed by you fans to get away with it is beyond comprehension?? The so called "genius " hasn't finished in 11 years now and Brady is getting older by the minute.

    We all witnessed Brady's ineptness last Sunday. So between your old HC and old QB it's time for some radical changes in NE or you the fan will keep setling for 3rd and 4th place.

    So what else are guys whining ...I mean discussing today?

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess it is better than last place. Anyhow, it comes down to this....have 3-4 mediocre seasons in a row,and win a SB....or, compete every year with a chance at,the SB. the former when mediocre draft high in those 3-4 years, load up on high draft picks and FA's, cashing in their chips for a win. While the latter, builds a competitive year in and year out, drafting lower, not necessarily loading up for the big push. Which would you rather have?  consistent mediocrity and cashing it in for a win, or sustained success/chance at the ring every year? I know their are plenty of shades of gray in between these 2 scenarios. 

    [/QUOTE]

    This fan base, which is already pounding the Pats for simply not winning a SB every year, would be unfathomly negative if the Pats were to go through a couple seasons or so of mediocre play.  Make that, a couple years or more of NOT making the playoffs if having a winning record at all.

    I know there are some here who can do the research, who can look up all those players on other teams who are Pro Bowl type players etc who were passed up by BB in the draft.  You know what I mean in that they were available for the Pats to draft but didn't.  I've read it plenty of times in which there are teams currently at the top who went through some hard times to get back to the top.  This within the same time span the Patriots are experiencing its current success.  Could it be the fact the Pats have sustained such a successful streak has impeded its opportunity to "rebuild" with higher caliber players since they are going to the less successful franchises who are drafting higher?

    [/QUOTE]

    That's part of it for sure. It's compounded I think with Some of them FA choices they have made. 

    Its so tough to gauge this team because bb is the ultimate extractor of talent and he coaches the players up better than most. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Hard times for BB.

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     But I've yet to see anyone post a comparative analysis (not cherry picked critiques) that shows the Pats as inferior drafting team.



    Bunches of objective posts have been made documenting the mediocrity to the downright futility of the drafting.

    [/QUOTE]

    collectively speaking,mi don't know if the pats are inferior or mediocre at drafting....

    i think the above gets exposed big time in the playoffs and when you have a severe rash of injuries. At that point you are heavily relying on players acquired late to deliver the same result as those acquired early. 

    [/QUOTE]

    This sentence says a lot.  I am trying to remember when in any year, the Pats, since their last SB win, did not have some sort of significant injury to a key player entering the playoffs.

    Entering SB42 - ankle injury to Brady..seemed to impede whatever mobility he had in spite of him, and the team, saying he was fine. Remember him wearng the walking boot the week prior to the SB?

    Lost Welker for the playoffs in 2009 or 2010?

    The last three seasons, losing Gronk..  he has yet to play a full game in either an AFCCG or SB in which he was fully healthy or not on IR.

    It is what it is.

     
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