Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rocher. Show rocher's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    No..those jobs are too important.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Are you drunk?





     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]I think you are unwise to judge a QB that way who has led his team to an NFC championship game. What has Brett Favre done before the Green Bay Packers ( Falcons QB ) and after?( Jets QB ) Nothing. Would you conclude that Favre is dumb, having only been successful on 1 of 3 NFL teams? Vick has only been with one NFL organization and  it has never been confused with the best the league has to offer. Still, he found success. Favre has stunk without Green Bay a better run organization than the Falcons and Jets. Vick found success where Favre didn't. That's a fact.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I am sure that Vick would have had the exact same success as Favre if he played in exactly 2 games and threw four passes. Those are the stats from Favre's single ROOKIE year with the Falcons. Oh, you forgot to mention he didn't start and his coach hated him because he disagreed with the owner about drafting him. Great conditions for success.

    If you really want to argue the merits of a player, at least use a decent argument.

    Oh, your initial question, aside from again being incorrect in its assumed facts, is inherently racist. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    This dude like to read his own writing.  Now go away.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]I hope white players are given a fair chance at all positions.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    That is just a stupid sentiment. Matt Light should have a chance to go out for strong safety? Just because you like to waste your time with stupid acts doesn't mean a well-run business does too.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eddyd08. Show Eddyd08's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]Why isn't Bob Kraft President of the United States? He took a team that was pretty much in the toilet (much like the situation we're in now) and made it the entity it is today?  He seems much more qualified than our current president. WHY?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]


     Ok Also how can you blame the guy just after 6 months when the guy that left was in power for 8 years and his the reason why we are in this mess?
    Let guess mr Palin is this you? Look dude stop with the politico rubbish.

    Now lets get back to football look Daceltics fine we don't have enough minorities in high offices when it comes to teams but that will change as more and more minorities make their mark on the game(same issues that MLB faced in the early days and that has change. So you see everything takes time..so relax and enjoy the Sox,Revs,Pats,Celtics and bruins
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from greyhoodie. Show greyhoodie's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]The sad fact is, and I love the Patriots. But they severely fall short when it comes to racial diversity in leadership roles in the organization(Head Coach, Personnell director, QB) and always have.[/QUOTE]

    You seem to have forgotten about Bobby Grier.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Who is the bigger fool?  Da Celtics for posting such a question, or the other idiots who took the time out of their day to actually argue with the man?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nykrb. Show nykrb's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB? : At least present an argument, no matter how much BS it contains.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    I agree, obviously there is still incredible prejudice in the country which is keeping QUALIFIED individuals of race from nearing their potential.

    In the past few years there have only been a handful of African Americans hold positions of power like Secretary of State, Supreme Court, and the Presidency.

    And when was the last time you saw a man of color as HC in the NFL?

    How about as QB?

    Obviously they are terribly misrepresented in our nation, despite being less than 20% of the overall population in America... and holding positions in the highest possible places.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Blacks represent the largest minority group in football, that is why I chose them to represent the argument of black QB's never taking hold in
    NE fresh off the Walter-Lemon-Vick scenario.

    A white player vs  black player scenario that seems to be preferential to white even if inferior, QB's.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    America as a whole is making fine progress in living up to the ideals of equality, but that doesn't mean everyone is on the same page does it?

    I believe at the very least, that the Patriots have had some innocently prejudiced policies in some areas, and need to change.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    The Pats drafted quarterbacks, obviously based on an expectation that the quarterbacks might eventually start.  The Patriots obviously draft to win.  The fact that neither one of their two black QB prospects (in recent years) worked out wouldn't be a reflection on the guys' skin color.

    As for blackheads, I'm sure your face has enough of them.  Just put your two index fingers on either side and squeeze.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Yuk yuk, Yuk You!

    p.s.- They don't sign free agents to win,though. They sign them for color balance?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nykrb. Show nykrb's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]America as a whole is making fine progress in living up to the ideals of equality, but that doesn't mean everyone is on the same page does it? I believe at the very least, that the Patriots have had some innocently prejudiced policies in some areas, and need to change.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    I don't think that can be validated by their actions, while Kraft has been owner they have drafted and gave considerable opportunity to Rohan Davey drafted by the New England Patriots in the fourth round of the 2002 NFL draft.

    Kraft inherited the team with Parcells as HC, and with him on that staff was Belichick in 1996.  Kraft then went with Pete Carroll, who was not quite made for the NFL but is perhaps the best College coach of this generation... and after Carroll he went after Belichick, obviously the absolute best option as it deprived the Division rival NY Jets of their best HC option and most of the Parcell's staff that was there.

    As for Vick ... if he were NOT a man of color this would not even be a discussion because no one would care one whit, and no one would want to touch Vick with a ten foot pole... he's damaged goods who will bring more negative press than is warranted for a back-up QB.

    This is a business, and Vick is no longer a sellable commodity, he can only tarnish a team's reputation and sellability to the public... unless he were to go to a team totally down and out, that has only one place to go, up, from the bottom.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Kobe recovered from a rape accusation.
    Big Ben, too.

    He killed a bunch of dogs, and that's bad. But crimes against human beings are worse, let's not get it twisted people.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    These protesters won't last long when reporters ask them why they believe that a convicted dog killer who has gone to prison no longer deserves to make a living.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]Personally, I never noticed before. I believe Belichick was his only coaching hire since owning the team, so no criticism there. ( Yet and still, the Patriots as an organization persistently lack diversity in leadership positions outside of the assistant coach category where Belichick has total command ) I always believed maybe Bishop and Davey were not good enough to be the #1 back-up, but I wonder now if Belichick is not making that call. Especially with Walter being selected over Vick and Lemon. I mean, there is no comparison. In this case you are not selecting the best availabe back-up, clearly.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]OK let me get this straight you think a QB who couldn't hold a back up job in either Miami or Jaxsonville or wherever he tried out last,and that a guy who spent the last 2 football seasons in prison and has a lifetime completion ratio of something like 58% is a better than a QB who has been a starter and has been participating in the NFL for the last 3 years,and your basing your criterium on the fact that both Vick and Lemon are black!Well if you ain't a racist Mother chucker noone is!!!!See you in the funny papers moron!!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Some thoughts:
    1. This country HAS a race problem. If you were here during the last presidential election you couldn't miss it. Recent notable events highlight it. Read a number of recent articles by Bob Herbert of the NY Times to get some understanding if it is something you cant see or understand.
    2. Professional and college sports have had problems with race and some of it is still with us. For example, what are the percentages of black coaches, head or otherwise, as compared with the number of people playing the various sports.
    3. You can't fault a team for having a coach of the caliber of Belichick.
    4. You can't fault a team for having a QB of the caliber of Brady (that makes 2 of 3 of the jobs sighted).
    5. The Patriots of the winningest team over the time Belichick has been there. This is not the halmark of someone having an issue with race but is the halmark of someone favoring whether a player or coach makes the team better.
    6. Kraft has had two different coaches get the team to the Superbowl and has fielded strong teams most of the years he ahs owned the club. Again, this doesn't reflect favoring things other than how to make the team better.
    7. The Patriots in this time have had African Americans at every position but punter, kicker and long snapper (and head coach).
    8. Romeo Crennel was the defense coordinator for each of the three Superbowl victories the Patriots have had this decade. They have and have had many African American assistant coaches.
    9. Concerning Mr. Vick: there is no question that he has paid the price determined by the courts. Nonetheless there are a couple of reasons the Patriots might not favor having him. The first is that they are not wanting to find someone to allow them to take Brady off the field, only a back up. They are not looking for someone who is suited for a wholey different scheme. And while you want the best you can have you dont want to pay more than you need to due to the salary cap issue. You can make a reasonable arguement that having a backup of Vick's calaber is worth it but you can also make the arguement that they need to sign Vince Wilfork and other African Americans who play starting and critical roles on the team. Second, whether you or I agree or not, Vick represents some very negative publicity due to the violent and heartless nature of his crimes. While I for one believe he should be allowed to earn a living I also believe what he did bad enough to follow him out of prison till such time he has shown a deeper feeling for the awful natire of what he did. I accept we may agree to disagree on that.

    Having said all that I could still see them deciding to bring Vick in. But I do not see not bringing him in as having anything to do with race.

    10. Concerning Lemon: Ive seen him play and he is no arguement for your point. You could have said the same thing last year when Cassel went in to the season as the backup and Cassel showed himself to be a far far better QB than Lemon. Frankly I have not liked much of what Ive seen with Lemon.
    11. There are other teams such a case could be more easily made.
    12. It helps NO ONE if there is a real problem and you use a very poor example to try to illustrate it. For example, We are now witnessing Congress, under the tutilage of pharmaseuticals and health insurers, trying to pass legislation that will prove not to work well just so they can come back later and say "see, we told you this doesnt work". Their fear is that if they pass real and proper legislation it will work (note that Congress decided to keep their own health care which is something like what many are proposing and insurance companies are trying to shoot down). It is best to make a good case with the best facts rather than trying to force a case to be made where the facts are not so strong. Otherwise those that need to see the truth of the matter will be that much more hardened agaist the idea.

    Respectfully,

    The Facts 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    You're welcome to your opinoin, but the facts are that Lemon and Vick are better QB's and have more experience than Walter but don't have a job and Walter does.

    Be honest.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    IMHO they aren't as affordable as Walter and they certainly aren't better than Walter!I just base my opinion on what I've read and seen.I would never want Vick in any case he's not a QB he's a HB in a QB's jersey! As for Lemon he couldn't make the team so why bring him in hell Edelman would beat him out.Troy Brown could beat him out and he's been out of the league for 2 years.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]You're welcome to your opinoin, but the facts are that Lemon and Vick are better QB's and have more experience than Walter but don't have a job and Walter does. Be honest.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    Honestly Vick has never been a good QB and Lemon was the third string QB on a dolphins team that won one game, the last game of the season to avoid infamy; he has never passed for a high percentage of completions.

    Walter's owns the PAC10's all time TD record he took from Elway...

    Vick is an  overrated dog murderer and Bob Kraft would never buy a lemon, where's the conspiracy?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]Blacks represent the largest minority group in football, that is why I chose them to represent the argument of black QB's never taking hold in NE fresh off the Walter-Lemon-Vick scenario. A white player vs  black player scenario that seems to be preferential to white even if inferior, QB's.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    Could you be more disingenuous. You chose blacks because they are the largest minority group and not because Lemon and Vick are black. Really? 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    [QUOTE]You're welcome to your opinoin, but the facts are that Lemon and Vick are better QB's and have more experience than Walter but don't have a job and Walter does. Be honest.
    Posted by DaCeltics[/QUOTE]

    You are tirelessly stupid.

    Just because Vick is available does not mean the Pats have to bring him in for a tryout, does it? Jeff George is still available. Vinny Testaverde is still available. Yet, no calls from the Pats. Are they now ageist, too?

    And, because they did not sign Lemon might just mean that after working him out, he didn't fit into their system. But, of course, the only obvious solution to you is that it is because he is black. 

    Every assertion that you have made has been easily shot down. I see that you also don't have the intellectual integrity or bulletin board wherewithal to actually respond to specific posts so a lot of your rebuttals are just dangling in the ether.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    I am so tired of these clueless accusations about race. I don't believe anyone should get preferrential treatment because of skin color or ethnic background. Yet so many times we see this same thing against white Americans. If two people applied for a job at the postal service, one black and one white, the black candidate would have a 15 point advantage on the test...automatically. Likewise for a hispanic or asian candidate. Isn't that also racism? Why should anyone expect half the head coaches in the league to be black if (like has been stated) only 20% of the population is black? I don't even agree with the Rooney Rule. Not that I think black coaches shouldn't be considered, but I think teams should be able to interview whomever they want, and not waste time with trying to fill a "quota". These people who keep crying "discrimination" for every little perceived slight are only hurting their cause. Much like the boy who cried wolf, it desensitizes public opinion when a legitimate issue does happen. As for the guy who started this thread, he is either an idiot or a troll (or both). If you are that stupid not to comprehend the multitude of reasons the Patriots are not interested in Michael Vick by now, I guess there is no hope for you. Now if a team passed on Donovan McNabb to sign Joey Harrington I'd say you'd at least have an argument worth making. But both Cleo Lemon and Andrew Walter are afterthoughts, neither being a player who is likely to make a shred of difference on any team. Much less a team with the best QB (arguably) in NFL history!!! I'd like to put a question to DaCeltics. Would you approve of Mr. Kraft firing Belichick to hire someone like Marvin Lewis were he to lose his job in December? You would get your wish of a black head coach, though it would probably cost the team any hope of another Super Bowl! Please, let's end all the Vick debate. Even if he were white as a sheet, I'd still not want that sadistic, murderous, lying b a s t a r d anywhere near Foxboro! And I still would not p i s s on him if I passed him on the street and he was on fire! In four more days the preseason starts. I was hoping we could start discussing football again instead of these politically charged topics. Surely there must be a more appropriate forum for such discussions. And if anyone is truly that upset because NE didn't sign Vick (or any other player or coach simply because of their skin color), they are more than welcome to stop being fans (if they really were fans to start with) and follow a team that is, in your opinion, more "racially balanced"! And on your way out the door, "Don't let the knob hit ya where the Good Lord split ya"!!!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    It's awfull early in the campaign, but this guy could very well be locking up the BDC Postie Award for Biggest Racist on the Forum, 2009.
     

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