Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    What's going on Mr. Kraft? ( I don't blame Belichick, he likes Vick) I think most people consider Cleo Lemon and Mike Vick to be better players than O'Connell and Walters. What gives with the Patriots history in this regard?
    Posted by DaCeltics


    By all means let's release Brady and bring back rohan davy. Maybe the NFL could just fire Mr Kraft and bring some "gangstas" to run the team. Would that satisfy your personal obsession with affirmitive action, sir?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from antleite. Show antleite's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    In Response to Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB? : By all means let's release Brady and bring back rohan davy. Maybe the NFL could just fire Mr Kraft and bring some "gangstas" to run the team. Would that satisfy your personal obsession with affirmitive action, sir?
    Posted by unclealfie


    Check the facts before you post.

    Rooney Rule = NFL
    Affirmative Action = Higher Education
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from will71. Show will71's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    ok here goes another moron playing the race card junk. In this case is not warrented, what so ever. lets start by breaking the ignorance starting with coaches, romeal cornal, pepper johnson 10 years, ivan fears 13 years
    harold Nash 5 yrs and soon to be Troy Brown.  
    all held in high regard in the patriots organization, need I remind you under 
    bellicheck most of all of the coaches have moved on to or had a shot 
    as head coaches regarless of age or race and
    even snake like qualities like snake-genne. If the patriot organization was so biased and non diversified then pro bowlers like troy brown that maybe should have retired a year a two sooner they would never have had a shot of 
    making the team if the patriots organization was so racially motivated. coaches like pepper johnson would not be the lb then promoted to dl coach so I guess we should bring in the convicted vick in to practice right, I mean really he deseves a break right? he black right?, forget the fact that he was covicted of a fellony of dog fighting. again its what you bring to the field and not what your not to do off of it, is what the patriots are looking for, regarless of the color of your skin. william - black man patriot season ticket holder 10 years
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    How many black QB's ever won a superbowl?  1 black qb. 
    Posted by bmartins16



    Actually there have been 11 black qb's who have won superbowls.  Check your facts partna...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    Black QB's are not as smart as white QB's to read defenses, check off, pick up audibles.  I have no problem with black folks. Heck, some of my black friends even say Vick, T-Jack, Cleo, Leftwich, cannot read defenses because they are not as smart as white qb's.  They may make for better athletes but that is half the battle.
    Posted by bmartins16


    Then you are as big a moron as DuhCeltics.  There are a lot of white QB's that cannot read defenses.  I've known some pretty damn dumb white people in my life.  You don't exactly come across as a genius either.  I pray that you are flipping burgers and aren't in any position to practice your ideology.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bmartins16. Show bmartins16's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB? : Then you are as big a moron as DuhCeltics.  There are a lot of white QB's that cannot read defenses.  I've known some pretty damn dumb white people in my life.  You don't exactly come across as a genius either.  I pray that you are flipping burgers and aren't in any position to practice your ideology.
    Posted by carawaydj


    Actually I bet I make more $$$ than you my friend.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from will71. Show will71's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    America as a whole is making fine progress in living up to the ideals of equality, but that doesn't mean everyone is on the same page does it? I believe at the very least, that the Patriots have had some innocently prejudiced policies in some areas, and need to change.
    Posted by DaCeltics


    this comment is so far off romeal cornal do you even know who he is? or who he 
    was as a patriot fogetting this fact would like if we erased the martin luther 
    king era. I am not saying that romeal is martin luther king but I am saying 
    the New England patriots are no where near the yawky like orginzation
    you make them out to be. dont be ignorant know you facts investigate 
    before you open your mouth, ps andree tippett and troy brown are future 
    names to look for as possible coaches.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    I'll tell you how Vick will help. If signed he will be in a "complicated, world class offense and magically become a pocket passer" and not the mediocre, sub-par Atlanta Falcons franchise he use to play for during his tenure. It's not that difficult to see the difference as you pointed out yourself. Vick will be coming in with motivation through the roof to show he is still an NFL caliber QB.

    And I suppose any moron who walked through the door into a classroom at Harvard would suddenly be able to earn a Law degree? Vick's problem wasn't the rest of the Falcon's team, it was that he was not smart enough to become a good QB in the NFL. The guy couldn't read a defense, nor go through his progressions. He simply ran around until he though he saw a hole he could run to. Just because he goes to another team doesn't automatically give him an extra 60 IQ points!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB? : Actually I bet I make more $$$ than you my friend.
    Posted by bmartins16


    Oh yeah, I bet I have a bigger slong...

    I'm not sure how financial status plays into this.  For all you know I am someone who joined this little defense contractor several years ago.  The little company became big, got acquired by Boeing, and I cashed out my stock to start my own business.  For all you know I spend most of my day writing software and post to give my small mind a break from the headaches of writing algorithms.  For all you know I'm in a big house that I own outright driving two nice cars that I own outright.

    Or I could be in my mothers basement and ride a bicycle.  Either way, I still have a bigger slong.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    I'll tell you how Vick will help. If signed he will be in a "complicated, world class offense and magically become a pocket passer" and not the mediocre, sub-par Atlanta Falcons franchise he use to play for during his tenure. It's not that difficult to see the difference as you pointed out yourself. Vick will be coming in with motivation through the roof to show he is still an NFL caliber QB. And I suppose any moron who walked through the door into a classroom at Harvard would suddenly be able to earn a Law degree? Vick's problem wasn't the rest of the Falcon's team, it was that he was not smart enough to become a good QB in the NFL. The guy couldn't read a defense, nor go through his progressions. He simply ran around until he though he saw a hole he could run to. Just because he goes to another team doesn't automatically give him an extra 60 IQ points!
    Posted by bubthegrub2


    Very true Bub.  Unlike what some other poster has asserted, Vick's lack of smarts has nothing to do with his race, and everything to do with the fact he's just not bright.  His lack of smarts was demonstrated off the field as well as on the field.  It runs in the family because his younger brother Marcus is the same way.  It wouldn't matter what color Vick was, he simply has issues between his two ears.  

    Vick will end up getting a 2nd chance somewhere.  As soon as the dust settles some team will pick him up.  If he shows he can straighten his life up that will be great.  I will not believe it though until he actually shows it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from antleite. Show antleite's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    I'll tell you how Vick will help. If signed he will be in a "complicated, world class offense and magically become a pocket passer" and not the mediocre, sub-par Atlanta Falcons franchise he use to play for during his tenure. It's not that difficult to see the difference as you pointed out yourself. Vick will be coming in with motivation through the roof to show he is still an NFL caliber QB. And I suppose any moron who walked through the door into a classroom at Harvard would suddenly be able to earn a Law degree? Vick's problem wasn't the rest of the Falcon's team, it was that he was not smart enough to become a good QB in the NFL. The guy couldn't read a defense, nor go through his progressions. He simply ran around until he though he saw a hole he could run to. Just because he goes to another team doesn't automatically give him an extra 60 IQ points!
    Posted by bubthegrub2
     And I suppose any moron who walked through the door into a classroom at Harvard would suddenly be able to earn a Law degree? I don’t think anyone accepted into Harvard law can be labeled as a moron (definition: stupid or lacking knowledge). Try an analogy that is actually relevant, my friend. Vick doesn’t get drafted to the NFL not knowing how to play QB nor would a law student go to Harvard if they weren’t qualified.  Vick's problem wasn't the rest of the Falcon's team, it was that he was not smart enough to become a good QB in the NFL. The guy couldn't read a defense, nor go through his progressions. He simply ran around until he though he saw a hole he could run to. Just because he goes to another team doesn't automatically give him an extra 60 IQ points!

    So because he runs around a lot on the field automatically means he can’t “read a defense, nor go through his progressions”, according to you? That’s an interesting concept, flawed but interesting, nonetheless barely proves your point. I don’t think you’re qualified to dictate an individuals IQ nor are you acknowledging that football is a team sport. Try addressing factors other then is running ability to really give credit to your argument.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

     Very true Bub.  Unlike what some other poster has asserted, Vick's lack of smarts has nothing to do with his race, and everything to do with the fact he's just not bright.  His lack of smarts was demonstrated off the field as well as on the field.  It runs in the family because his younger brother Marcus is the same way.  It wouldn't matter what color Vick was, he simply has issues between his two ears.   Vick will end up getting a 2nd chance somewhere.  As soon as the dust settles some team will pick him up.  If he shows he can straighten his life up that will be great.  I will not believe it though until he actually shows it.

    I can see (to some extent) how people may try and blame his race or upbringing for his (and his brother's) off field activities. Being a black kid growing up in poverty has been used to explain how a lot of young men get into trouble with the law. But both these two brothers had a chance to get out of the shadow of that stigma and make something of themselves. Both were given the opportunity at a college education. Both were given an opportunity to make enough money to insure they and their families never had to worry about poverty. The fact that neither took advantage of this hints that they either lack intelligence or feel entitled. As far as football intelligence, Michael has shown he is nowhere near guys like Brady or Manning (or McNabb, to use another black QB for comparison). His inability to improve his pocket presence and completion percentage after more than one coach has worked extensively with him on it shows a deficiency. To think that by merely joining the Patriots he will suddenly do a 180 is absurd. Playing QB in the NFL takes a lot of things. One part of it is what they call the "intangibles". That's the biggest difference between a good QB and a great one. Michael Vick simply does not have "it", and that won't change on any of the other 31 teams. His supporters are so blinded with their thinking that everyone is against him because of either race or past criminal history they fail to (or refuse to) see this. Which is why I've stated that even if Vick was a model citizen, I do not think he would be a fit in NE. They want to use this to brand us as "racist", but I wouldn't want guys like Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington here, either. They have the same inherent problem, they lack the mentality of a great NFL QB. I suppose we are wasting out time trying to argue this point, though. It seems as though these "supporters" are no more intelligent than Vick himself!


     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB? : Check the facts before you post. Rooney Rule = NFL Affirmative Action = Higher Education
    Posted by antleite


    My grandfather used to say, "Calling a pig a thistle won't make it whistle."

    I suppose we could turn this entire forum into "Fun With Semantics," but I fear I would get lonely with no one to talk to.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Ok carawaydj you gotta prove it ......NO! NO! NO! just kidding my man:^)





     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    ok here goes another moron playing the race card junk. In this case is not warrented, what so ever. lets start by breaking the ignorance starting with coaches,  romeal cornal, pepper johnson 10 years, ivan fears 13 years harold Nash 5 yrs and soon to be Troy Brown.   all held in high regard in the patriots organization, need I remind you under  bellicheck most of all of the coaches have moved on to or had a shot  as head coaches regarless of age or race and even snake like qualities like snake-genne. If the patriot organization was so biased and non diversified then pro bowlers like troy brown that maybe should have retired a year a two sooner they would never have had a shot of  making the team if the patriots organization was so racially motivated. coaches like pepper johnson would not be the lb then promoted to dl coach so I guess we should bring in the convicted vick in to practice right, I mean really he deseves a break right? he black right?, forget the fact that he was covicted of a fellony of dog fighting. again its what you bring to the field and not what your not to do off of it, is what the patriots are looking for, regarless of the color of your skin. william - black man patriot season ticket holder 10 years
    Posted by will71


    what the hell did he just say?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Can I just say one thing?  And let me preface this by saying in no way shape, form, or fashion do I consider The Krafts to be racist, or the Patriots organization as a racist organization.  I think the fact that this topic got 6 pages of post just shows how bored people are (I'm guilty too).

    Now.  People the question is have they ever had a black head coach or #1 or back up qb.  By coming in and stating Romeo Crennel, Bobby Grier, Pepper Johnson or whoever else has been named proves no point at all because none of them were HEAD COACHES.  I get the point you are trying to prove, but it does nothing to answer the question.  Also, people are saying we have black players.  So what?  If Kraft and the Pats WERE racist (and again... I don't think they are at all) but IF the were... that doesn't mean they wouldn't hire black players.  Slave owners were racist and they had blacks around.  If you think about it, the players are actually the "slaves" of the NFL.  Didn't Marge Schott or whatever her name was employ blacks? 

    Don't know why I felt the need to type this, but I did...  guess I'm just bored.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    N2
    After wading through will71's post I think he said that the Pats show no prejustice against blacks therefore they should give Vick a chance....I think that's what he meant.






     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    Ok carawaydj you gotta prove it ......NO! NO! NO! just kidding my man:^)
    Posted by Harleyroadking111


    My wife is running around the house laughing right now.  I hope it's because she just watched something funny on TV...

    What else can you say to someone who, out of the blue, says he bets he makes more $$$?  And that has to do with what?  My point in saying I hope he just flips burgers is because if someone truly believes black QB's aren't smart enough to read defenses, he probably also believes a black employee isn't smart enough for this management position and so on.  I hope he isn't in a position where he can discriminate.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    Black QB's are not as smart as white QB's to read defenses, check off, pick up audibles.  I have no problem with black folks. Heck, some of my black friends even say Vick, T-Jack, Cleo, Leftwich, cannot read defenses because they are not as smart as white qb's.  They may make for better athletes but that is half the battle.
    Posted by bmartins16

    You should google Jimmy "the Greek"Snyder you two have alot in common.




     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    Carawaydj

    maybe your wife is laughing because she knows the truth, the "slong" truth :^)

    ....also I totally agree with your point,we don't need people with racist mindsets making important decisions.




     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from amanch38. Show amanch38's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    why did you pick out Romo and Romanowski? Is it because they are WHITE! Are you a racist sir? You talk about partying and unsportmanslike conduct and bring up Tony Romo? Have you ever heard of a guy named Pacman Jones, or a team called the Minnesota Vikings? If not, look at these links here...
    Now that sir, is picking out the two most ridiculous moments of PLAYERS being a distraction, and not a WHITE or BLACK player being a distraction. I think these guys party a little harder than Tony Romo. 

    You are absolutely ridiculous for bringing up this conversation in the first place.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonDad99. Show BostonDad99's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
    What's going on Mr. Kraft? ( I don't blame Belichick, he likes Vick) I think most people consider Cleo Lemon and Mike Vick to be better players than O'Connell and Walters. What gives with the Patriots history in this regard?
    Posted by DaCeltics

    Massachusetts is a racist state, but gay friendly!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from antleite. Show antleite's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    In Response to Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?:
     Very true Bub.  Unlike what some other poster has asserted, Vick's lack of smarts has nothing to do with his race, and everything to do with the fact he's just not bright.  His lack of smarts was demonstrated off the field as well as on the field.  It runs in the family because his younger brother Marcus is the same way.  It wouldn't matter what color Vick was, he simply has issues between his two ears.   Vick will end up getting a 2nd chance somewhere.  As soon as the dust settles some team will pick him up.  If he shows he can straighten his life up that will be great.  I will not believe it though until he actually shows it. I can see (to some extent) how people may try and blame his race or upbringing for his (and his brother's) off field activities. Being a black kid growing up in poverty has been used to explain how a lot of young men get into trouble with the law. But both these two brothers had a chance to get out of the shadow of that stigma and make something of themselves. Both were given the opportunity at a college education. Both were given an opportunity to make enough money to insure they and their families never had to worry about poverty. The fact that neither took advantage of this hints that they either lack intelligence or feel entitled. As far as football intelligence, Michael has shown he is nowhere near guys like Brady or Manning (or McNabb, to use another black QB for comparison). His inability to improve his pocket presence and completion percentage after more than one coach has worked extensively with him on it shows a deficiency. To think that by merely joining the Patriots he will suddenly do a 180 is absurd. Playing QB in the NFL takes a lot of things. One part of it is what they call the "intangibles". That's the biggest difference between a good QB and a great one. Michael Vick simply does not have "it", and that won't change on any of the other 31 teams. His supporters are so blinded with their thinking that everyone is against him because of either race or past criminal history they fail to (or refuse to) see this. Which is why I've stated that even if Vick was a model citizen, I do not think he would be a fit in NE. They want to use this to brand us as "racist", but I wouldn't want guys like Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington here, either. They have the same inherent problem, they lack the mentality of a great NFL QB. I suppose we are wasting out time trying to argue this point, though. It seems as though these "supporters" are no more intelligent than Vick himself!
    Posted by bubthegrub2
    As far as football intelligence, Michael has shown he is nowhere near guys like Brady or Manning (or McNabb, to use another black QB for comparison). His inability to improve his pocket presence and completion percentage after more than one coach has worked extensively with him on it shows a deficiency.Manning didn’t go from a good QB to a great one without all aspects (Offense/Defense/Special Teams) of his football team performing at a high level. Brady doesn’t turn from a 6th round draft pick to a 3x super bowl winning QB in the NFL without his team performing at the same level. Vick will not go from a good QB to a great QB with a team that is statistically sub-par and has had (4) different coaches/schemes/philosophy on football during his (6) years of playing. QB’s in the NFL don’t complain to their GM’s for better talent around them if they are a great QB’s to begin with who can win championships on their own, minus the other 10 players on the field. But to you the Atlanta Falcon’s failure as a well managed team is the fault of Michael Vick.If you played any organized sports you would know that it takes a team to produce a winner/champion. A team performing at the top of there respective sport wouldn’t allow opposing defenses through the OL on a consistent basis as the Falcons did while Vick was their QB. A team with sub-par defense wouldn’t put the load on the offense to consistent put up points on the scoreboard just to be competitive. Why do you think QB’s are never experience success at Oakland, San Francisco, Houston, Kansas City, etc.? Let me guess they aren’t mentally capable to comprehend a playbook. To think that by merely joining the Patriots he will suddenly do a 180 is absurd. Maybe or maybe not, we won’t know until it happens. But I’m inclined to say that he very well may turn it around. I think MV lack of common sense off the field pre-prison sentence can be questioned but not his ability to play the game of football. MV doesn’t equal a Ryan Leaf or a Joey Harrington he is a 3x pro bowler (02’, 04’, & 05’) out of 6 years of play, a record setting rushing QB, and a man on a mission to regain the respect of the NFL community (players, fans, and owners alike). But if you are the type of fan who is scared of the protest of PETA or fans by all means let them dictate the business decisions of your team. Last time I checked we are the most hated team in the NFL anyway. Who cares if they hate on the Patriots even more if we sign Vick nothing will change but the further success of the team if we sign a quality QB in Vick.  Which is why I've stated that even if Vick was a model citizen, I do not think he would be a fit in NE. They want to use this to brand us as "racist", but I wouldn't want guys like Ryan Leaf or Joey Harrington here, either. They have the same inherent problem, they lack the mentality of a great NFL QB. I suppose we are wasting out time trying to argue this point, though. It seems as though these "supporters" are no more intelligent than Vick himself!  If you want argue against MV, fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But when some want to argue against Vick because he runs to much, his childhood upbringing, the way he carries himself (to some as a “gangsta” or “thug”), or question his intelligence without even knowing the man, to mention just a few, then some might think that race is a factor in your argument.  But if you argue against MV based on his football career and the team that he played for then that’s another story.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Have the Patriots EVER had a Black Head coach or Starting / #1 back-up QB?

    I don’t think anyone accepted into Harvard law can be labeled as a moron (definition: stupid or lacking knowledge). Try an analogy that is actually relevant, my friend.

    Yet Vick wasn't "accepted" into the Patriots organization, either! You claim that by merely being allowed in, Vick would become a cerebral QB. My point is that by merely allowing any moron into Harvard that will not make him magically gain intelligence! I think it is very relevant once you comprehend what I'm actually saying.

    So because he runs around a lot on the field automatically means he can’t “read a defense, nor go through his progressions”, according to you?

    I did not use that as a reason, I used it as evidence. After years of the Falcons coaching staff trying to teach him how develop his passing skills, he was still unable to do so. Most of his "big" plays were actually broken plays where he simply tucked the ball away and outran the defense.

    I don’t think you’re qualified to dictate an individuals IQ nor are you acknowledging that football is a team sport.

    Not sure what you are saying here! Nobody "dictates" anyone's IQ, it is what it is. And in my opinion, after seeing him play, his lack of improvement, and listening to him speak in interviews, I come to the conclusion that he's not the brightest bulb on the tree! And how does evaluating an individual's aptitude or performance have anything to do with acknowledging football is a team sport? Please, in the future use some coherent arguments!

    Try addressing factors other then is running ability to really give credit to your argument.

    I have stated many reasons why I believe Vick is not a good QB, it seems that you either cannot or will not acknowledge them. If you need a refresher course, please go back and reread all my posts on this subject.

    Slave owners were racist and they had blacks around.  If you think about it, the players are actually the "slaves" of the NFL.

    I get your point, and it is valid to a certain extent. Though I never heard of any slave getting paid a nine figure contract, though!!!

    Sorry, I had to put that in!

    Manning didn’t go from a good QB to a great one without all aspects (Offense/Defense/Special Teams) of his football team performing at a high level. Brady doesn’t turn from a 6th round draft pick to a 3x super bowl winning QB in the NFL without his team performing at the same level.

    Manning went 3-13 as a rookie. After that he has had his team in the playoffs almost every single season. And the defense and special teams have not been amongst the best for the Colts. That is a contributing factor to the fact they have only been to one SB in Manning's career. And even if Brady hadn't won three SBs, he would still be a great QB. This came from studying the playbook, spending extra time in the filmroom, and listening to his coaches. All of that had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the other 52 players on the team. We are not talking about the success of the team, we are talking about the development of an individual player.

    QB’s in the NFL don’t complain to their GM’s for better talent around them if they are a great QB’s to begin with who can win championships on their own

    Obviously you've never heard of Peyton Manning! Also, a lot of QBs have restructured their contracts to allow their teams to sign better players. And the Falcons were not the Lions or the Raiders. Don't forget, they did make it to the NFCCG in 04. You are merely using excuses for his inability to develop as a QB. Even after using his athletic ability to evade the rush, he still could not consistently get the ball to his receivers.

    But if you are the type of fan who is scared of the protest of PETA or fans by all means let them dictate the business decisions of your team.

    Again, you do not read my posts or simply do not comprehend them. My only comment was that the team did not need the distraction that any such protests (and the media barrage) would bring. My biggest reason for opposing Vick coming to Foxboro is my belief that he is not intelligent enough to run the offense they run in Foxboro.

    If you want argue against MV, fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But when some want to argue against Vick because he runs to much, his childhood upbringing, the way he carries himself (to some as a “gangsta” or “thug”), or question his intelligence without even knowing the man, to mention just a few, then some might think that race is a factor in your argument.  But if you argue against MV based on his football career and the team that he played for then that’s another story.

    If having my opinion is "fine", why the attack in multiple posts quoting me? The only mention I made of his upbringing was to essentially agree that it could be argued that growing up in poverty might have something to do with his off field acts. While I don't condone them, I understand that many such people raised in the "ghetto" may be bitter at authority, and this might have some validity in defending such actions (or at least the reasoning behind them). And I do not need to know someone personally to have an opinion on their intelligence. You can look at their actions and listen to their words and get some sort of idea! As far as I know Vick could have an IQ of 150! But it's my opinion from watching him play that he does not translate that so well into playing the QB position. Again, it's my opinion, which you say I have a right to. But if I spell out all my reasons as well as I have over the last couple weeks and you still think my opinion is based on race, then I have to question your intelligence, or your motives. For anyone who believes that any slight to a person of color is racially motivated to me is a racist themselves! Again, if Vick was a white man I'd still say his football IQ was lacking, I wouldn't want him on my favorite team, and I think he should be banned for his heinous acts! I cannot make it any clearer than that! My argument is based solely on his track record in the NFL (for this thread, at least). I despise his off the field actions as well, and wouldn't want him in Foxboro even if he had a lifetime passer rating of 100+. But that is a totally different subject which was thouroughly discussed on a few other threads.

     
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