HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlleyCatBruin. Show AlleyCatBruin's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]If this guy's "tuned-in" watch out! The Patriots will have the best D-line in the game, with Albert Haynesworth, Vince Wilfork, and Ty Warren.
    Posted by DaPrince77[/QUOTE]

    I agree. Could be one heckuva D-Line this year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]Why is everyone so worried that Haynesworth doesnt like the 3-4 and that's what the Pats play.  It's just on paper the way BB starts a game.  In actuality they play 4 man fronts more often than 3 man fronts just typically in a nickle package (not a true 4-3).  Given Albert's mentality and conditioning I'm betting he won't even play much on 1st and 2nd downs anyway, so his main role will be just get after the QB on 3rd downs.  That being said, I like the move and think he'll make a big impact but it's a pretty high price tag for what I think will just be a role player.
    Posted by dirty-water[/QUOTE]

    From what I read most of the money on the big contract has already been paid by the Skins. He gets $5 mil this year. No big deal for a guy who could be a viscous presence on the pass rush, and can be cut if he isn't worth it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ultrabop. Show ultrabop's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    If he's a nose tackle then why did he refuse to play the nose in D.C.?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    Our pass rush, esp up the middle with Fork, Haynsworth, Wright, Spikes, Mayo and Chung is going to be great.

    I still worry about a few things from the D-line such as setting the edge and getting to the RB that break to the ends. Haynsworth is 335 lbs, Warren is coming off hip surgery, if we have Brace/Gerard Warren on the outside they are 325+ and not all that nimble. Both Warrens are over age 30.

    We just don't have any of those 'traditional' Seymour, Bobby Hamilton type 3-4 DE's in the 290-310lbs range that can just dip to the side with serious quickness and wrap up a back. Deaderick seems to be the only guy in this mold. I'd like one more guy like him, 6'3" 285 or so, more of a 4-3 DE, then a low ceiling stump like Pryor and underachiever like Brace, both of them were drafted as Wilfork insurance (in case he signed elsewhere) and are now just luxury depth we only need 1 of.

    Also the OLB spot is obviously still very weak, but if we get Roth and Cunningham makes a monster year 2 leap like Chung's, then we should be fine.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dtrain1. Show dtrain1's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND... :  Yo dtrain ... Just wanted to let you know that there are plenty of real Pats fans on this sight that are actually fairly tolerant of other fans points of views and I sincerely hope you continue to post here .   It's true that there are a handful of misguided "die-hard" Pats fans that get their panties all in a wad if you so much as suggest that our Pats aren't perfect ...they roll out the TROLL mantra at the first sign of trouble w/o pausing to consider if a valid point might be being made .    Like any fan sight , we get our share of rival team's bonified TROLLS , who sole purpose is to show up here and stir the pot .   You're obviously not one of them ...and you're very welcome here .  NOTE ~ The time to worry about so-called TROLLS , my fellow Pats fans  , is when they STOP showing up here ... It will mean the Pats are no longer relevant ( i.e. Losers ).
    Posted by CaptFoxboro[/QUOTE]

    Thanks Cap'n! We get the same nonsense over at ExtremeSkins - people who've been complaining about not getting rid of Big Boy are now complaining that our FO didn't get enough from you guys. Go figure.

    Anyway, I'm envious of you and your fellow Pats fans. You have a team like the Skins I grew up on. Enjoy it!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]Now we know why the pats didn't draft a pass rusher. The best one in the league was sitting in the doghouse in Washington because the dufus Shanahan didn't know what to do with him. A guy like this....you let him do whatever he wants. He's one of those disruptive ball players. Let him disrupt....the other team. Now we can forget about Tully Banta-Cain.
    Posted by ultrabop[/QUOTE]

    What is with this our pass rush improved!!! and best pass rush in the league stuff coming from.  Here are his sack totals since he has been in the league:

    2002   1
    2003   2.5
    2004   1
    2005   3
    2006   2
    2007   6
    2008   8.5
    2009   4
    2010   2.5

    I remember when the Redskins signed him 2 years ago for 100 million, all you heard around here was how OVER-RATED he was.  Reality check please.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]At least he won't be landing on Brady's shoulder this year, lol!
    Posted by NY-PATS-FAN4[/QUOTE]

    Or knee!!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from whitbomb. Show whitbomb's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    This will be a great move if Haynesworth is motivated to play this guy is a force when he shows up.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    Tas = a pats fan with some clarity.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from vapatfan1. Show vapatfan1's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    I'm a bit nervous about this one but if BB can bring the best out of Albert then this is going to be interesting to watch. Especially from the pass rush standpoint.

    To be sure BB doesn't suffer fools.  If Albert gets all primadonna on us BB won't waste any time dumping him. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    The breast-caress incident didn't get put into Wikipedia because it's still disputed.  A waitress claims that Haynesworth grabbed her.  Haynesworth denies the incident.  He refused to cut a deal with the D.A. for a simple assault conviction.  I'd say that because Haynesworth punched some guy in the nose once and walked away, he possibly also did the second hit-and-run.  Similar M.O.?

    "I could see this sexual assault case being very difficult to prove in a court of law.  According to the police report, the waitress says Haynesworth wanted to pay his bill with his credit card but her hands were full with dishes.  She says the defensive tackle asked her if it would be alright with her if he put the card in the pocket of her blouse. The waitress says he did but started to caress her breast at the same time.  That will be where the case is decided. How long was his hand on her breast? Was it there for a second? Was it there for two seconds? Three seconds? If he put the card in her pocket with his big hands, chances are he would touch her breast whether he wanted to or not.  How tight were her blouse? How big are her breasts?  Haynesworth knows how to stay in trouble.  According to the waitress the entire incident happened at about 1:30am on Sunday morning."

    http://gcobb.com/2011/02/14/haynesworth-accused-of-caressing-breast-of-waitress/
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    here's one way that this deal would surely help (assuming he's healthy and wlling)...

    NWE got burned many times on third and long, over the last couple of years. I don't have hard data, but my observation is that, on those situations, BB used a lot of 3-man rushes. Unfortunately, NWE does not have a 3-man rush strong enough to put pressure quickly on the QB. The QB ends up having all day to wait until coerage breaks down.

    That equation changes with VW and AH on that 3-man rush. I expect them to be more effective on third downs.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dtrain1. Show dtrain1's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND... : You may wish to consider in your assessment of his chances of working out in NE that the Skins are a team somewhat in disarray, and the Pats are not. Also, AH seems a stubborn fellow and using him in a role he does not feel he can play his best game in is apt to bring out that bad side. He won't be used consistently as a NT in NE.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    I've considered those things.

    When AH was brought in, the Skins were a disaster, being run by "GM" Vinny Cerrato with puppet strings handled by Dan Snyder. Under Jim Zorn AH loafed and despite playing in his usual position, he rebelled against DC Greg Blache, basically saying he knew better and couldn't tolerate the D system as it stood.

    So, even when the intent is to make him happy and use him right, he doesn't often cooperate. During 2009 we saw more of Al leaving the field on a cart or behind an oxygen mask than we did on the field.

    It could change, especially since the Pats are a contender and the Skins clearly haven't been for some time but I wouldn't bet on him even passing the conditioning test.




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]Laz very good break down. That's the Pats D system I was trying to explain to Z but couldn't put it nearly as elegant as you put it. Just imagine Roth opposite Cunningham in that system and drool
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    PatsEng...Thanx a ton man.  And honestly lol, I didn't read the first 6 pages, but'cha nailed it better than anyone else, with this:
    "You're right it's a look but not a 43 simply because a lot of the time those OLB's on the outside faint as part of the rush package. Most of the time The DE's act as DE's and the OLB's either faint to allow the DE's to rush between the B gap as a means to draw off the T (that's where most of Wright's sacks came off of) or it's to free the ILB for an inside delayed blitzed to separate the line. That's the huge difference there between the styles. In a 43 the roles are defined and in 34 sub packages with 43 looks they are completely fluid depending on the package they are running at the time. Actually because of this it makes Haynesworth more dangerous because you have to account for him but if they line up in a 43 look and are in a 34 sub then you can get beat up the middle by a ILB blitz or get fooled with a OLB faint leaving a hole in the B gap."
    ~And it sorta goes along with what I theorized about in 1 thread (RE: some vast attempt at having dual interchangeable ILBs in NE).    
    And some are gonna blow me up for sayin' this...but by deploying dual ILBs- ahh, Mayo ain't in that picture...

    Here's WHY, the risk/reward and future:

    Mayo's contract's up next year...  And he will get paid, paid, and lemme RE-emphasize: Paid BIG.  But sorry, the key to the success of a having 2 3-4 ILBs, 1 WILB (Mayo) and 1 SILB (Spikes), Isn't the 1 specific guy...and just how nasty he is, or might be.  Nope...It's both.  Think the year before last (2009-2010), and how good Mayo looked THAT season...he didn't.  And it wasn't Mayo not living up to the challenge...It was that Gary Guyton was NE's SILB (early on, this was esp. noteable).  You NEED=100% NEED, a banging SILB...and ya always need for the 3-4 decent sized D-Lineman, But in terms of Mayo getting an open-look on a ball-carrier, A player who can, and willingly wants to play that SILB spot, IS a Must.

    The contingent is having some nut-case SILB, who takes on the added O-Line(man) blocks coming further out and into the LB corp, As there's 1 less D-Lineman (3-4 vs 4-3). 

    YET, What IF...What IF: Pats decided to deploy, not 1, but 2 BIG SILB types...  There MIGHT be some who would make a concern RE: perfect-form tackling, of that weak-side ILB (i.e. Mayo)...but really, tackling ain't the issue, c'mon.
    THIS would be the greater one:  That, There may be some concerns RE: Speed on dropping back those now, heavier/bigger SILB types on passing downs...  And Spikes's 40 WAS an initial concern among some (yet, after watching his read/react instincts, play-diagnosis skills, and ON-field speed...That's LONG gone).  But what if ya had 2 SILB, ya know?  Might this speed drop-off be further enhanced and amplified (as oppossed to a smaller speedier WILB instead).  A:  Well, just go ahead to The NFL's 2012 ILB prospects on Walterfootball.com, and see for yourselves...

    ~Top 8 guys!  Something like 8! of the ILBs comin' out next year: ALL-over 6'2-upwards of 6'4.  BIG boys, too!  When Mayo came out, he was like 220-230lbs in some listings...  These guys are just about @ 240-255...and that matters.  Check their 40's out and TFLs and Sacks, o.k.?  Now, Mayo ain't providing an inside pass-rush threat no matter what...sorry; He'll get caught up in the trash of the lines.  BUT, THESE guys (like Spikes) DO have the size, AND on field quickness to see that crease and be strong enough and quick enough, to get through and exploit that opening.  AND by getting just 1 of ANY of these big & good ILBs, you don't NEED to take a gamble on hopefully, begging to move up into the Top 10 Draft picks, in order to secure some superstar All-world Collegiate 4-3 DE w/ 20TFLs and 15 Sacks, and then running the even FURTHER risk of transitioning and changing his entire position from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB...  Nah...not worth it.  Not when ya can get some Big SILB type, with LESS of that pure-pass rushing skills, BUT (here's the pt): JUST enough of a backfield thread w/ 10-12 TFLs and 5 or so Sacks, For HIM to be accounted for...

    NOW...ya got something.  Because NOW, ya got not merely 1 WOLB, no matter how good he is (let alone IF you can ever find him)- 1 WOLB whom ya KNOW which side he's coming from nearly 100% of the time...  INSTEAD, ya got 2 SILB and 1 WOLB, ALL of whom pose at least SOME semblance of a lesser, but VERY real threat...  A threat which no can be exploited when you're shifting your D-Lineman over to that weakside, and shifting your 4 LBs over the other way...  Which ILB's coming?  Both...who...Are they gonna further try to collapse the pocket from the middle (b/c they have the size)...find an inner crease in a 4-3 under, or over?  Is either interchangeable ILB now gonna overwhelm the O-Line better on a fire/zone-blitz (yes)?  Are the ILBs gonna cross over?  
      THAT trade off...is pretty freaking good in terms of More versatility (what you can do with whom and HOW/different and number of ways) , LESS single (1 specific player) Demands & etc (i.e. affording one), FAR Less concerns & attempts to find the next TRUE freak 3-4 DE (Seymour)/Less concerns in getting a freak Collegiate 3-4 DE-3-4 OLB transfer prayer McGinest)... 

    And FINALLY, 2 serious questions and shortcomings of your 3-4 Defense...?  Remember?  1 /> Exploitable to the interior power rushing game (MMM, not so much so w/ now 2 guys the size of the typical 1 SILB type).  2 /> Pocket-Collapsing OF that center D (i.e. Even a great NT no longer gurantees even remotely the same inside push to collapse a pocket from the center, as 2 4-3 DTs do... And Why?  B/c teams like The Colts and Packers, and more & more-Have now learned to have whichever OG that true 3-4 NT angles towards <besides that OC he's dead-on /> And to have whichever OG, simply pull, molly-block I believe the term is, And just KEEP that NTs direction going in the angle he was originally flowing towards in his OWN angle choice).  And so now there's a big V-crease seam for that QB to pass outta 1 OT dealing w/ 1 DE and on the same side that NT you're further helpin' him pull towards, ya got your OC and OG pushing him further along in the same direction he originally started angling towards.  On the other side?  Ya got an OT and OG (who has a better interior angle on this lone remaining 3-4 DE).  So they can better pull wide the opposite way, ya know?  SO: Perfect crease...  Buuut, by doing this, it leaves exploitable openings to the interior passing rush threat by your ILBs.  If ya got just 1 WILB and 1 SILB...ehh, Chances are ya can still get a mitt on that weakside guy IF he came up the middle.  Strongside guy=Just 1 guy, so better accounting for him w/ O-Line awareness and movements as play develops...and each guy has their own specific jobs/requirements.  BUT 2 interchangeable ILBs the size of SILBs???  Hmmm...

    Anyway...  WHEN BB didn't get another SILB type, and w/ Mayo currently STILL a mainstay (and a good one)...  I'm thinking, HowInTH is BB gonna provide any pass-rush, let alone an interior pocket collapsing one, or a decent enough weakside one, let alone have the personell balanced enough to do something like a zone-blitz on 1 side (wherein that OTHER side, NE's personell might just get killed IF and when the QB read which side this zone-blitz was coming from, and headed the direction of his play-call, the other way)???  

    I'm thinkin', HowInTH is BB gonna offer ANY-thing like this?

    Well, Here's HOW:

    WR         TE   OT   OG   OC   OG   OT               WR
    DMC                TWa       VW         AHy             LBodd  
               Ninc                                     Cunning
                                JM          BS
    ...by shifting to THIS form of a 3-4 "Under" Defense...

    Spikes and D-Line's shift counterbalancing the weak-side.  The shifting of your 4 LBs (w/ your SOLB and best tackling/physical CB) counter-balancing the strong-side.  Haynesworth's as your best D-Line pass-rush threat (WITH the size...i.e. not Mike Wright)-more 1-1 looks.  VW right at 0 dead-eye on the OC (or 1 speck over as well).  Warren, as your self-less best run-stuffer, "no hastles" (cough), set-up on giving that initial stance and need for taking on 2 O-Lineman (by shifting).  LBs moving to strongside, offers zone-blitz concerns given that The D's just set-up heavy to go that way (more LBs, and w/ VW dead on OC, he CAN decide to angle THIS way...you just don't know).  YET, sheez, Your set best pass-rush specialist 3-4 OLB AND your better 3-4 DE pass-threat (Haynesworth & Cunningham) have a more open look w/ less offensive players to impede THEM... (yet the way it's counterbalanced, ya can't run or whatever, towards the Strong-side...NE's LB corp is already edged over that way). 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    MsCheat there is a big difference between holding a higher standard for your team and not caring about standards at all.

    When most of your team is full of high character guys you can afford to have a couple of low character guys and not greatly affect the team. I hope most Pats fans wouldn't say we only have high character guys because well we don't but you can say we only have a handful of trouble makers. Which I can say there are only a few teams in the league that can claim only a couple of people they picked up have off-field issues.

    Matter a fact the Jets use to be known to be full of low character guys but have recently started to trend to higher character guys which I commend them for and I think it's really showing in their locker room and on the field.

    For a team on the complete opposite end of the spectrum look at Cinn who seems to like to collect low character guys.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from laureno. Show laureno's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    I'm a Patriots fan living in Washington DC and Haynesworth was nothing but trouble for the Redskins - bad for the team, big ego, lots of complaining and no performing - I hope Belichick can turn him around but I don't think he is worth it.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    When you talk about how BB D's generate pass rush do not forget that there are schemes that sometimes involve the secondary. Guys like Rodney Harrison used to be used that way not too infrequently. Chung is actually excellent in that role. I expect a big season from Chung. In fact, he might end up being the big playmaker in the secondary this year. I also wonder how well a bigger CB like Dowling might be coming from the corner...

    I am keen to see if Moore or rookie Markell Carter start to catch on. If Moore I would expect to see him start to perform well in the role around games 6-12. If Carter maybe game 12-16 but more likely not till next fall.

    I do wonder if a raw talent at OLB (such as above) or just a fair pass rush talent is put outside Haynesworth whether it might significantly improve their effectiveness due to double teams on Haynesworth.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]I cant believe some of you dont love this move! Sure Big Al has a rep as a malcontent, but so did Corey Dillon and Randy Moss. You really think that Big Vince, Ty Warren, or even Tom Brady or is gonna let Albert come in here and upset the locker room?! No way. Vince got too much invested in this team and takes pride in being a Captain! Now can you imagine any team having 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 trying to run on this D-line!!! Can anyone name a DL that Albert played with in Washington? Thats why he hated it there, he was on the nose getting doubled and triple teamed every play. Albert Haynesworth has never played with another D-lineman as talented as Vince. I bet they push each other to new heights!
    Posted by Quagmire3[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    In Response to Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...:
    [QUOTE]Funny thing is, a week ago no one would want him on this team or claim to like him or anything like that. But now that he is coming to NE its all sunshine and rainbows. I will like him when he gives me a reason to like him till then I really dont like this guy on the team. I like the talent he brings but he is a lazy entitled dirt bag.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    The reason for this is because EVERYONE knows the potential of this guy.  In 2007-8 he was the most dominant DL in the league period and worked his way into a 100 Million contract.  Then he went to a crap team and they asked him to play a position he wasn't comfortable with, and he hung up his spurs and mentally checked out.  Very reminisent of Moss in Oakland I might add.  Now he's with a team that has a track record of turning around high talent malconents.  One of maybe 3 teams that could possibly turn this guy around and put him back on track, thus a lot of NFL analysts are excited, as well as the locals. 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    Seymour got 8 sacks twice  while playing for the Pats strickly as a 34 DE.  If Haynesworth looks at that and the fact that the Patriots defense played 54% in a 43 nickle were he will pass the rusher, then it is easy to see he should have double digit sacks for Patriots next year.

    Everything I wrote is fact.  He should see his personal stats rise from Washington.  Like playing for BB and a Tom Brady led offense.  He is on a 14-2 winning team.  

    Mark my words.  He sees more than a light at the end of the tunnel.  He sees success.

    He will rejuvinate his career and let the league know that he is a top 5 D Linemen.  

    Wright    Haynesworth    Wilfork    Cunningham    -    You scared yet?

    No?  The how about this.,


    Warren    Wilfork    Haynesworth.


    Bodden is back teaming with McCourty.


    Our D will be a force again. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PAULICAS1975. Show PAULICAS1975's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    This is an AWSOME trade for the Pats. Haynsworth and Wilford in the middle. You will need 4 guys to block them. Meaning the LB's will be able to rush in alot easier on Blitzs and other cover shemes. Haynsworth will not be a cancer. WHEN he signed with the Redskins. He was told as part of his contract that they would play thw same defense the titans had. That changed when Shanahan became the coach. Thats the reason why I think he was a canceer. BB has no problem in showing him the door if he becomes a pain in the neck. Plus playing for a winner sometimes changes a players attitude. Look at Moss, Dillion. They were considered cancers by their temas until they came here. Dillion worked out very well as did Moss. Then when Moss wasnt working well. BB got ri of him. Problem solved. Welcome to NE Haynsworth.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Keyser1. Show Keyser1's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    the dude is lazy and quits on most plays however the pats gave up noting for him so I like the move.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from gettek. Show gettek's posts

    Re: HAYNESWORTH traded to NEW ENGLAND...

    Outstanding move!  There's really no risk.  If his punk ways surface than he's gone.  Locker room cancers don't last in New England.  Nothing to worry about folks.  And if he's on board... Look out!  What a d-line!!
     
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