Help for #12

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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

     

    In response to m. a. pat's comment:

     


    The Pats may have enough at WR with last years' group but it's hard to tell at this point. We don't know if Dobson, Boyce and Thompkins can make that second year jump. If Dobson and Boyce can stay healthy, I believe both can make significant contributions.

    Thompkins may have reached his ceiling / potential given that he'll turn 26 during training camp. He also seemed to lose the coaching staff's trust in the latter part of the season.

    I've got high hopes for Dobson after seeing his improvement in the second half of the season. Brady seemed like he looked for this guy when he was on the field. Still a ways to go but the measurables such as height and speed are certainly there. I think Brady likes this guy and that's a plus. Can he stay on the field and avoid injuries?

    Boyce? He showed big time talent in the Houston game but why did it take over half a season to make the game day roster? Will this talent translate to the field and can he learn the game? This kid has a ton of potential and hopefully we'll be seeing big plays this coming season.

    Offensively in the Denver game the biggest problem was the Pats' interior offensive line getting blown up. The second was no Gronk, Dobson being hobbled coming into the game, DA invisible, Boyce out and Thompkins got hurt during the game.

    IMHO the best immediate way to help #12 would be to upgrade the center and right guard positions and  then grab a move TE.

     

     

     



    M a 

     

    you are very very correct, our rg and control were beaten up, it wasn't 8 -9 in a box, the bronco dline overwhelmed them, Mankins also was awful. The bronco dline said after the game, that they couldn't be blocked, it was just that simple

    To blame the coaches for not running more is ridiculous 

    To blame TB , who missed on one pass, is also ridiculous

    When Talib went out, then our defense was over matched Too

    And when all of our players got injured last year, I don't remember anyone guaranteeing a SB win. But now let's blame the coaches or TB? Come on!.

    but I guess we are going to hear this until we win a SB? Or that if we drafted the right skill player, we will win. No when our lines play a little better, then we might

     

     

     

    Here's the first running play of the game, just moments after the snap.  Does it look like the Broncos care a whit about our receivers?   

     Screen Shot 2014-03-30 at 8.14.51 PM.png




    Pro, everyone knew we were going to run early, they came to stop the run, and they did, but their dline didn't need a lot of help, our rbs didn't even get by the line play.  Blount couldn't even make a cut. I think if they had been able to break the los,  we could have kept runNing a bit. I think they also stopped Vareen running or receiving. They owned the Los. And that's what we did in the previous two games.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    He's starting to help himself a bit my taking some accountability.  He's wearing the pants now, forcing Giselle to move to Boston so this LA glam crap can come to an end until his career is over, at least.  So annoying.

    Next, he's at least show signs of admitting he didn't play that well in postseasons where he hadn't for many years.

    Further, BB just did what all the whiny pink hats wanted here, which was to load up on defense.

    BB tried to do that on D to play to the Goodell NFL and it worked well overall, but it was not good enough to secure a title, mainly due to Brady's own disappearences when the chips were on the table.

    So, enough with this "Brady does not have any help" crap.  LaFell is like a David GIvens, they have 3 younger WRs, two of whom had very nice rookie years, and with Brady in Boston in the offseason for once and likely at the facility with these WRs on a regular basis, it bodes well for continued growth in the passing game.

    Amendola put up Patten production last year and Edelman back again only helps.

    The WR position is actually LOADED with talent and now there is a base of contiuity moving forward, as opposed to swapping out WRs every offseason like has been happening.

    I would say BB is pretty happy overall with what he has. The question remains....Will Brady and his spoiled self be just as happy in January?  No more hands on the hips and stare downs with pouting, please.

    It's all about Brady now.  QBs can only dream of having Gronk to throw to, too. 

    Leave it to Handy to think a name on a jersey that ESPN praises at WR somehow is how you satisfy Brady.  lol

    Absolutely clueless. Mike Wallace is being paid 13 mil per down in Miami as a bust, on his way out. You, Mt Hurl, Pezzy, TFb12, etc, were all pining for a guy like that in here last offseason.

    You were warned.

    Finally, if someone like Steve Smith does not want a ring and wants an ego stroke with more money, choosing Baltimore's cap hell over a legit SB run here, that's his choice.  BB cannot force stubborn vets into making the better decision.

    You'd have to be a moron to think Baltimore is in bettter position for a playoff berth and SB title than the Pats.

     



    Now that's a load . . . 

     




    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to proftom2's comment:

    Methinks the 3 rookies WR's (Thompins, Dobson, Boyce) we drafted last year will be a much improved this year.  Add them to the little "semi-big 3" (Amendola, Edelman, Lefell) and Tom's got one his best receiving grew ever. TE depends on Gronk and a draft pic, RB is set with Ridely, Vereen and a draft pic. The best thing about th the offense is the OL, all returning, that great. 



    One hopes of course, but there's no guarantee.  The realists understand that Boyce couldn't get on the field last year, Thompkins was benched, and Dobson was only so-so (and has a broken foot to boot).

    Edelman is a decent slot receiver but was ineffective against Denver in the playoffs when we needed a guy to stretch the field, Amendola looked good in about two games, was injured most of the season, and disappeared in the playoffs.  LaFell is a nice second or third option--but it would be a real step up for him to be a number 1. 

    I'd love to say this is a "loaded" receiving corp, but the person in me who watches football without the rose-coloured homer glasses on says that this is receiving corp loaded only with question marks.

     



    The real  realists understand Boyce was injured and missed all of training camp and probably wouldn't see the field at all. The real realists also see that Thompkins probably hit the rookie wall. The real realists think Dobson played well for a rookie and equaled the production of a 10 year vet.

    Only the pessimistic realists think the rookies are as lousy as you portray them and only the pessimistic realists expect any kind of guarantee. 

    And the problem with the Pats in the playoof game against Denver wasn't the receivers being unable to stretch the field. It was the inability of Brady to get the ball to them when they did. He had three chances and couldn't even get it in the same zipcode.

    And since when has pessimism been equal to realism?

     

     
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

     

    In response to m. a. pat's comment:

     


    The Pats may have enough at WR with last years' group but it's hard to tell at this point. We don't know if Dobson, Boyce and Thompkins can make that second year jump. If Dobson and Boyce can stay healthy, I believe both can make significant contributions.

    Thompkins may have reached his ceiling / potential given that he'll turn 26 during training camp. He also seemed to lose the coaching staff's trust in the latter part of the season.

    I've got high hopes for Dobson after seeing his improvement in the second half of the season. Brady seemed like he looked for this guy when he was on the field. Still a ways to go but the measurables such as height and speed are certainly there. I think Brady likes this guy and that's a plus. Can he stay on the field and avoid injuries?

    Boyce? He showed big time talent in the Houston game but why did it take over half a season to make the game day roster? Will this talent translate to the field and can he learn the game? This kid has a ton of potential and hopefully we'll be seeing big plays this coming season.

    Offensively in the Denver game the biggest problem was the Pats' interior offensive line getting blown up. The second was no Gronk, Dobson being hobbled coming into the game, DA invisible, Boyce out and Thompkins got hurt during the game.

    IMHO the best immediate way to help #12 would be to upgrade the center and right guard positions and  then grab a move TE.

     

     

     



    M a 

     

    you are very very correct, our rg and control were beaten up, it wasn't 8 -9 in a box, the bronco dline overwhelmed them, Mankins also was awful. The bronco dline said after the game, that they couldn't be blocked, it was just that simple

    To blame the coaches for not running more is ridiculous 

    To blame TB , who missed on one pass, is also ridiculous

    When Talib went out, then our defense was over matched Too

    And when all of our players got injured last year, I don't remember anyone guaranteeing a SB win. But now let's blame the coaches or TB? Come on!.

    but I guess we are going to hear this until we win a SB? Or that if we drafted the right skill player, we will win. No when our lines play a little better, then we might

     

     

     

    Here's the first running play of the game, just moments after the snap.  Does it look like the Broncos care a whit about our receivers?   

     Screen Shot 2014-03-30 at 8.14.51 PM.png




    Pro, everyone knew we were going to run early, they came to stop the run, and they did, but their dline didn't need a lot of help, our rbs didn't even get by the line play.  Blount couldn't even make a cut. I think if they had been able to break the los,  we could have kept runNing a bit. I think they also stopped Vareen running or receiving. They owned the Los. And that's what we did in the previous two games.



    The thing they did so well is get great backside pursuit from their LBs.  Their nose tackle caused a lot of problems (Wendell is way too small to handle that guy), but the real problem for the Pats was the backside LB.  I actually thought Mankins had a very good game (other than the one whiff on a sack he gave up).  The TEs (Mulligan and Hoomanawanui) were not that good in the running game and Wendell was getting beat a lot. But the big thing is that the Broncos were willing to attack aggressively at the LOS because they weren't worried too much about the pass.  A lot of one-safety formations, with 8 or even 9 guys basically focused on the LOS. We had a lot of power formations, but they beat us more with speed than power at the LOS, I thought. 

     

     

     

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Receiving yds by WRs in 2012: 2,708 (WW 1,354, Lloyd 911, Edel 235, Branch 145, Stallw 63)

    Receiving yds by WRs in 2013: 2,878 (Edel 1,056, DA 633, Dobs 519, Thomp 486, Boyce 121, Collie 63)

    Receiving yds by TEs in 2012: 1,479 (Gronk 790, Hern 483, Hoom 109, Fells 85, Winslow 12)

    Receiving yds by TEs in 2013: 744 (Gronk 592, Hoom 136, Mull 16)

    Total passing yds in 2012: 4,844

    Total passing yds in 2013: 4,343

    You still think the answer lies in a flashy wideout?

    You want to fix the problem, replace Hern for starters.

     



    Looks like we target the slot recievers a lot. Short to intermediate passing. Looks like a team easy to predict, what they will do on crucial situations. Add the TE in, pretty much the targets for TB. Need Recievers that stretch the field, less underneath in the heart of the Defense.
    You have a guy that can pull the Safety, because of his deep threat, and underneath stuff becomes even more dangerous.

     




    You also have to be able to throw the ball deep and hit the receiver. Until the Pats do that no one will respect the deep threat.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to proftom2's comment:

    Methinks the 3 rookies WR's (Thompins, Dobson, Boyce) we drafted last year will be a much improved this year.  Add them to the little "semi-big 3" (Amendola, Edelman, Lefell) and Tom's got one his best receiving grew ever. TE depends on Gronk and a draft pic, RB is set with Ridely, Vereen and a draft pic. The best thing about th the offense is the OL, all returning, that great. 



    One hopes of course, but there's no guarantee.  The realists understand that Boyce couldn't get on the field last year, Thompkins was benched, and Dobson was only so-so (and has a broken foot to boot).

    Edelman is a decent slot receiver but was ineffective against Denver in the playoffs when we needed a guy to stretch the field, Amendola looked good in about two games, was injured most of the season, and disappeared in the playoffs.  LaFell is a nice second or third option--but it would be a real step up for him to be a number 1. 

    I'd love to say this is a "loaded" receiving corp, but the person in me who watches football without the rose-coloured homer glasses on says that this is receiving corp loaded only with question marks.

     



    The real  realists understand Boyce was injured and missed all of training camp and probably wouldn't see the field at all. The real realists also see that Thompkins probably hit the rookie wall. The real realists think Dobson played well for a rookie and equaled the production of a 10 year vet.

    Only the pessimistic realists think the rookies are as lousy as you portray them and only the pessimistic realists expect any kind of guarantee. 

    And the problem with the Pats in the playoof game against Denver wasn't the receivers being unable to stretch the field. It was the inability of Brady to get the ball to them when they did. He had three chances and couldn't even get it in the same zipcode.

    And since when has pessimism been equal to realism?

     



    That's a whole bunch of excuses, but the NFL is a bottom-line league and the bottom line was that the receivers didn't deliver.  Brady may have missed a throw or two, but there were a lot more plays where there was just very little separation against very light coverage. 

     

     
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Receiving yds by WRs in 2012: 2,708 (WW 1,354, Lloyd 911, Edel 235, Branch 145, Stallw 63)

    Receiving yds by WRs in 2013: 2,878 (Edel 1,056, DA 633, Dobs 519, Thomp 486, Boyce 121, Collie 63)

    Receiving yds by TEs in 2012: 1,479 (Gronk 790, Hern 483, Hoom 109, Fells 85, Winslow 12)

    Receiving yds by TEs in 2013: 744 (Gronk 592, Hoom 136, Mull 16)

    Total passing yds in 2012: 4,844

    Total passing yds in 2013: 4,343

    You still think the answer lies in a flashy wideout?

    You want to fix the problem, replace Hern for starters.

     



    Looks like we target the slot recievers a lot. Short to intermediate passing. Looks like a team easy to predict, what they will do on crucial situations. Add the TE in, pretty much the targets for TB. Need Recievers that stretch the field, less underneath in the heart of the Defense.
    You have a guy that can pull the Safety, because of his deep threat, and underneath stuff becomes even more dangerous.

     




    You also have to be able to throw the ball deep and hit the receiver. Until the Pats do that no one will respect the deep threat.



    You need a decent deep receiver.  Good deep ball receivers are hard to overthrow.  They run to the ball.  Tiny, not particularly fast guys like Edelman aren't ideal deep threats. 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    He's starting to help himself a bit my taking some accountability.  He's wearing the pants now, forcing Giselle to move to Boston so this LA glam crap can come to an end until his career is over, at least.  So annoying.

    Next, he's at least show signs of admitting he didn't play that well in postseasons where he hadn't for many years.

    Further, BB just did what all the whiny pink hats wanted here, which was to load up on defense.

    BB tried to do that on D to play to the Goodell NFL and it worked well overall, but it was not good enough to secure a title, mainly due to Brady's own disappearences when the chips were on the table.

    So, enough with this "Brady does not have any help" crap.  LaFell is like a David GIvens, they have 3 younger WRs, two of whom had very nice rookie years, and with Brady in Boston in the offseason for once and likely at the facility with these WRs on a regular basis, it bodes well for continued growth in the passing game.

    Amendola put up Patten production last year and Edelman back again only helps.

    The WR position is actually LOADED with talent and now there is a base of contiuity moving forward, as opposed to swapping out WRs every offseason like has been happening.

    I would say BB is pretty happy overall with what he has. The question remains....Will Brady and his spoiled self be just as happy in January?  No more hands on the hips and stare downs with pouting, please.

    It's all about Brady now.  QBs can only dream of having Gronk to throw to, too. 

    Leave it to Handy to think a name on a jersey that ESPN praises at WR somehow is how you satisfy Brady.  lol

    Absolutely clueless. Mike Wallace is being paid 13 mil per down in Miami as a bust, on his way out. You, Mt Hurl, Pezzy, TFb12, etc, were all pining for a guy like that in here last offseason.

    You were warned.

    Finally, if someone like Steve Smith does not want a ring and wants an ego stroke with more money, choosing Baltimore's cap hell over a legit SB run here, that's his choice.  BB cannot force stubborn vets into making the better decision.

    You'd have to be a moron to think Baltimore is in bettter position for a playoff berth and SB title than the Pats.

     



    Now that's a load . . . 

     




    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.



    That's absurd. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:



    The point is you need more then what the Pats have now.



    Not trying to be difficult, but I honestly don't know how you can conclude that they need more wide receivers?  I think they need bigger, more physical pass catchers, which to me can easily be a return to form of Gronk and a Hern replacement, or just a bigger, better TE than what they have besides Gronk. Maybe a Blount replacement that can catch as well. If they can get a bigger, sturdier WR that's fine too. Not a Mike Wallace or a DeSean Jackson for me.

    They got more out of their receivers last year than in '12, with LaFell added and a year under the rookies' belts, WR to me is a low priority. To me, this draft needs to be about the front seven, TE, safety and the big uglies. Pass rush, DT, TE, S, OL, RB and then WR. Maybe a project QB somewhere in the mix.




    More as in more talent, not quanity.  Still lacking the mid to deep threat.  Really can't count on Gronk to make it a full season and will be hard to find someone who can replace him when he is hurt.  We have the short to middle covered, how can you not see whe need a mid to deep threat to spread the d and give a deeper option.




You really can't count on Brady making it a full season either. Nor anyone else on the team.

 
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:



    That's a ton of uncertainty, way too much for what should be expected from this Pats team.

    Lafell:  unknown

    Last year's rookies:  unknown

    Health of Amendola/Edelman:  unknown

    Health of Gronkowski:  unknown

     



    there's also a ton of uncertianty in bringing in a FA WR too. there arent studs left. why waste money on a vet if you could draft someone who is cheaper and could be better?

    FA WRs and the Pats dont get along to well either, as dont draft picks too.

    I'm fine with sticking with what we got and maybe drafting depth




    The reason why is rookies might not work in the Pats system just like most of the free agents brought in don't work in the Pats system. But they're rookies so they aren't any good ever.

     
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.



    Slot guys:  You mean if they're healthy and can get open.

    Who are the others you're referring to?  Three rookie busts and a #4 free agent?

     
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to proftom2's comment:

    Methinks the 3 rookies WR's (Thompins, Dobson, Boyce) we drafted last year will be a much improved this year.  Add them to the little "semi-big 3" (Amendola, Edelman, Lefell) and Tom's got one his best receiving grew ever. TE depends on Gronk and a draft pic, RB is set with Ridely, Vereen and a draft pic. The best thing about th the offense is the OL, all returning, that great. 



    One hopes of course, but there's no guarantee.  The realists understand that Boyce couldn't get on the field last year, Thompkins was benched, and Dobson was only so-so (and has a broken foot to boot).

    Edelman is a decent slot receiver but was ineffective against Denver in the playoffs when we needed a guy to stretch the field, Amendola looked good in about two games, was injured most of the season, and disappeared in the playoffs.  LaFell is a nice second or third option--but it would be a real step up for him to be a number 1. 

    I'd love to say this is a "loaded" receiving corp, but the person in me who watches football without the rose-coloured homer glasses on says that this is receiving corp loaded only with question marks.

     



    The real  realists understand Boyce was injured and missed all of training camp and probably wouldn't see the field at all. The real realists also see that Thompkins probably hit the rookie wall. The real realists think Dobson played well for a rookie and equaled the production of a 10 year vet.

    Only the pessimistic realists think the rookies are as lousy as you portray them and only the pessimistic realists expect any kind of guarantee. 

    And the problem with the Pats in the playoof game against Denver wasn't the receivers being unable to stretch the field. It was the inability of Brady to get the ball to them when they did. He had three chances and couldn't even get it in the same zipcode.

    And since when has pessimism been equal to realism?

     



    Well said.  That's what we call, "keepin' it real".

     
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    He's starting to help himself a bit my taking some accountability.  He's wearing the pants now, forcing Giselle to move to Boston so this LA glam crap can come to an end until his career is over, at least.  So annoying.

    Next, he's at least show signs of admitting he didn't play that well in postseasons where he hadn't for many years.

    Further, BB just did what all the whiny pink hats wanted here, which was to load up on defense.

    BB tried to do that on D to play to the Goodell NFL and it worked well overall, but it was not good enough to secure a title, mainly due to Brady's own disappearences when the chips were on the table.

    So, enough with this "Brady does not have any help" crap.  LaFell is like a David GIvens, they have 3 younger WRs, two of whom had very nice rookie years, and with Brady in Boston in the offseason for once and likely at the facility with these WRs on a regular basis, it bodes well for continued growth in the passing game.

    Amendola put up Patten production last year and Edelman back again only helps.

    The WR position is actually LOADED with talent and now there is a base of contiuity moving forward, as opposed to swapping out WRs every offseason like has been happening.

    I would say BB is pretty happy overall with what he has. The question remains....Will Brady and his spoiled self be just as happy in January?  No more hands on the hips and stare downs with pouting, please.

    It's all about Brady now.  QBs can only dream of having Gronk to throw to, too. 

    Leave it to Handy to think a name on a jersey that ESPN praises at WR somehow is how you satisfy Brady.  lol

    Absolutely clueless. Mike Wallace is being paid 13 mil per down in Miami as a bust, on his way out. You, Mt Hurl, Pezzy, TFb12, etc, were all pining for a guy like that in here last offseason.

    You were warned.

    Finally, if someone like Steve Smith does not want a ring and wants an ego stroke with more money, choosing Baltimore's cap hell over a legit SB run here, that's his choice.  BB cannot force stubborn vets into making the better decision.

    You'd have to be a moron to think Baltimore is in bettter position for a playoff berth and SB title than the Pats.

     



    Now that's a load . . . 

     




    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.




    Congrats!  You now are up there with your mentor, or alter ego, for one of the most RIDICULOUS POSTS I HAVE EVEN READ!!!!!  More talent than 2007?   BWAHAHA

    Faulk 47

    Welker 112

    Moss 98

    Stallworth 46

    Watson 36

    Gaffney 36

     

    Last year they had EDELMAN and rookie jags that couldn't catch 50% of their passes and led the league in DROPS,  with a whopping 37, 32 and 9 catches for the rooks.  That's less than Watsons, Gaffney and freaken Kyle Bradys receptions.

    Just say no to the rusty stupid juice.  It causes permanent BRAIN DAMAGE

     
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    Re: Help for #12

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    He's starting to help himself a bit my taking some accountability.  He's wearing the pants now, forcing Giselle to move to Boston so this LA glam crap can come to an end until his career is over, at least.  So annoying.

    Next, he's at least show signs of admitting he didn't play that well in postseasons where he hadn't for many years.

    Further, BB just did what all the whiny pink hats wanted here, which was to load up on defense.

    BB tried to do that on D to play to the Goodell NFL and it worked well overall, but it was not good enough to secure a title, mainly due to Brady's own disappearences when the chips were on the table.

    So, enough with this "Brady does not have any help" crap.  LaFell is like a David GIvens, they have 3 younger WRs, two of whom had very nice rookie years, and with Brady in Boston in the offseason for once and likely at the facility with these WRs on a regular basis, it bodes well for continued growth in the passing game.

    Amendola put up Patten production last year and Edelman back again only helps.

    The WR position is actually LOADED with talent and now there is a base of contiuity moving forward, as opposed to swapping out WRs every offseason like has been happening.

    I would say BB is pretty happy overall with what he has. The question remains....Will Brady and his spoiled self be just as happy in January?  No more hands on the hips and stare downs with pouting, please.

    It's all about Brady now.  QBs can only dream of having Gronk to throw to, too. 

    Leave it to Handy to think a name on a jersey that ESPN praises at WR somehow is how you satisfy Brady.  lol

    Absolutely clueless. Mike Wallace is being paid 13 mil per down in Miami as a bust, on his way out. You, Mt Hurl, Pezzy, TFb12, etc, were all pining for a guy like that in here last offseason.

    You were warned.

    Finally, if someone like Steve Smith does not want a ring and wants an ego stroke with more money, choosing Baltimore's cap hell over a legit SB run here, that's his choice.  BB cannot force stubborn vets into making the better decision.

    You'd have to be a moron to think Baltimore is in bettter position for a playoff berth and SB title than the Pats.

     



    Now that's a load . . . 

     




    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.



    That's absurd. 



    I agree. The 2007 WR corps was by far the best. Take away moss and welker and Gaffney and stallworth combined had about 90 catches and 925 yards or so. That pretty good for a 3 and 4. 

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to proftom2's comment:

    Methinks the 3 rookies WR's (Thompins, Dobson, Boyce) we drafted last year will be a much improved this year.  Add them to the little "semi-big 3" (Amendola, Edelman, Lefell) and Tom's got one his best receiving grew ever. TE depends on Gronk and a draft pic, RB is set with Ridely, Vereen and a draft pic. The best thing about th the offense is the OL, all returning, that great. 

     



    One hopes of course, but there's no guarantee.  The realists understand that Boyce couldn't get on the field last year, Thompkins was benched, and Dobson was only so-so (and has a broken foot to boot).

     

    Edelman is a decent slot receiver but was ineffective against Denver in the playoffs when we needed a guy to stretch the field, Amendola looked good in about two games, was injured most of the season, and disappeared in the playoffs.  LaFell is a nice second or third option--but it would be a real step up for him to be a number 1. 

    I'd love to say this is a "loaded" receiving corp, but the person in me who watches football without the rose-coloured homer glasses on says that this is receiving corp loaded only with question marks.

     



    The real  realists understand Boyce was injured and missed all of training camp and probably wouldn't see the field at all. The real realists also see that Thompkins probably hit the rookie wall. The real realists think Dobson played well for a rookie and equaled the production of a 10 year vet.

    Only the pessimistic realists think the rookies are as lousy as you portray them and only the pessimistic realists expect any kind of guarantee. 

    And the problem with the Pats in the playoof game against Denver wasn't the receivers being unable to stretch the field. It was the inability of Brady to get the ball to them when they did. He had three chances and couldn't even get it in the same zipcode.

    And since when has pessimism been equal to realism?

     



    That's a whole bunch of excuses, but the NFL is a bottom-line league and the bottom line was that the receivers didn't deliver.  Brady may have missed a throw or two, but there were a lot more plays where there was just very little separation against very light coverage. 

     




    If Brady is as good as he used to be, if there was any separation he should have gotten them the ball. He didn't need a five yard clear radius around a receiver before Moss and WW arrived.

    The other thing that keeps getting ignored is that teams won't respect and deep receivers unless you have proven you will hit them. You need to hit them at least ten times during the season. The Pats didn't do that.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to proftom2's comment:

    Methinks the 3 rookies WR's (Thompins, Dobson, Boyce) we drafted last year will be a much improved this year.  Add them to the little "semi-big 3" (Amendola, Edelman, Lefell) and Tom's got one his best receiving grew ever. TE depends on Gronk and a draft pic, RB is set with Ridely, Vereen and a draft pic. The best thing about th the offense is the OL, all returning, that great. 

     



    One hopes of course, but there's no guarantee.  The realists understand that Boyce couldn't get on the field last year, Thompkins was benched, and Dobson was only so-so (and has a broken foot to boot).

     

    Edelman is a decent slot receiver but was ineffective against Denver in the playoffs when we needed a guy to stretch the field, Amendola looked good in about two games, was injured most of the season, and disappeared in the playoffs.  LaFell is a nice second or third option--but it would be a real step up for him to be a number 1. 

    I'd love to say this is a "loaded" receiving corp, but the person in me who watches football without the rose-coloured homer glasses on says that this is receiving corp loaded only with question marks.

     



    The real  realists understand Boyce was injured and missed all of training camp and probably wouldn't see the field at all. The real realists also see that Thompkins probably hit the rookie wall. The real realists think Dobson played well for a rookie and equaled the production of a 10 year vet.

    Only the pessimistic realists think the rookies are as lousy as you portray them and only the pessimistic realists expect any kind of guarantee. 

    And the problem with the Pats in the playoof game against Denver wasn't the receivers being unable to stretch the field. It was the inability of Brady to get the ball to them when they did. He had three chances and couldn't even get it in the same zipcode.

    And since when has pessimism been equal to realism?

     



    That's a whole bunch of excuses, but the NFL is a bottom-line league and the bottom line was that the receivers didn't deliver.  Brady may have missed a throw or two, but there were a lot more plays where there was just very little separation against very light coverage. 

     




    If Brady is as good as he used to be, if there was any separation he should have gotten them the ball. He didn't need a five yard clear radius around a receiver before Moss and WW arrived.

    The other thing that keeps getting ignored is that teams won't respect and deep receivers unless you have proven you will hit them. You need to hit them at least ten times during the season. The Pats didn't do that.



    They (Dobson, Vereen) were hit multiple times deep during the season. They unfortunately dropped too many of them. Vereen I give a pass because of his wrist, Dobson not so much. Especially because he didn't drop a single pass his senior season in college. 

     
  • This post has been removed.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    He's starting to help himself a bit my taking some accountability.  He's wearing the pants now, forcing Giselle to move to Boston so this LA glam crap can come to an end until his career is over, at least.  So annoying.

    Next, he's at least show signs of admitting he didn't play that well in postseasons where he hadn't for many years.

    Further, BB just did what all the whiny pink hats wanted here, which was to load up on defense.

    BB tried to do that on D to play to the Goodell NFL and it worked well overall, but it was not good enough to secure a title, mainly due to Brady's own disappearences when the chips were on the table.

    So, enough with this "Brady does not have any help" crap.  LaFell is like a David GIvens, they have 3 younger WRs, two of whom had very nice rookie years, and with Brady in Boston in the offseason for once and likely at the facility with these WRs on a regular basis, it bodes well for continued growth in the passing game.

    Amendola put up Patten production last year and Edelman back again only helps.

    The WR position is actually LOADED with talent and now there is a base of contiuity moving forward, as opposed to swapping out WRs every offseason like has been happening.

    I would say BB is pretty happy overall with what he has. The question remains....Will Brady and his spoiled self be just as happy in January?  No more hands on the hips and stare downs with pouting, please.

    It's all about Brady now.  QBs can only dream of having Gronk to throw to, too. 

    Leave it to Handy to think a name on a jersey that ESPN praises at WR somehow is how you satisfy Brady.  lol

    Absolutely clueless. Mike Wallace is being paid 13 mil per down in Miami as a bust, on his way out. You, Mt Hurl, Pezzy, TFb12, etc, were all pining for a guy like that in here last offseason.

    You were warned.

    Finally, if someone like Steve Smith does not want a ring and wants an ego stroke with more money, choosing Baltimore's cap hell over a legit SB run here, that's his choice.  BB cannot force stubborn vets into making the better decision.

    You'd have to be a moron to think Baltimore is in bettter position for a playoff berth and SB title than the Pats.

     



    Now that's a load . . . 

     




    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.




    Congrats!  You now are up there with your mentor, or alter ego, for one of the most RIDICULOUS POSTS I HAVE EVEN READ!!!!!  More talent than 2007?   BWAHAHA

    Faulk 47

    Welker 112

    Moss 98

    Stallworth 46

    Watson 36

    Gaffney 36

     

    Last year they had EDELMAN and rookie jags that couldn't catch 50% of their passes and led the league in DROPS,  with a whopping 37, 32 and 9 catches for the rooks.  That's less than Watsons, Gaffney and freaken Kyle Bradys receptions.

    Just say no to the rusty stupid juice.  It causes permanent BRAIN DAMAGE




    So the real tally is 4 talented receivers during the Moss years compared to 5 talented receivers last year.

    The only reason they lead the league in drops is because if any part of a receiver touches the ball, whether it is catchable or not is called a drop. They all got a lot better once Brady stopped throwing it over their heads or behind them or at the gound in front of them. But you can call them jags if that helps you sleep at night.

    Oh and in case you didn't notice the rules of the game changed again last year. The Polian rules seem to have gone the way of the dinosaur. Defenses are being allowed to be defenses again.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to proftom2's comment:

    Methinks the 3 rookies WR's (Thompins, Dobson, Boyce) we drafted last year will be a much improved this year.  Add them to the little "semi-big 3" (Amendola, Edelman, Lefell) and Tom's got one his best receiving grew ever. TE depends on Gronk and a draft pic, RB is set with Ridely, Vereen and a draft pic. The best thing about th the offense is the OL, all returning, that great. 

     



    One hopes of course, but there's no guarantee.  The realists understand that Boyce couldn't get on the field last year, Thompkins was benched, and Dobson was only so-so (and has a broken foot to boot).

     

    Edelman is a decent slot receiver but was ineffective against Denver in the playoffs when we needed a guy to stretch the field, Amendola looked good in about two games, was injured most of the season, and disappeared in the playoffs.  LaFell is a nice second or third option--but it would be a real step up for him to be a number 1. 

    I'd love to say this is a "loaded" receiving corp, but the person in me who watches football without the rose-coloured homer glasses on says that this is receiving corp loaded only with question marks.

     



    The real  realists understand Boyce was injured and missed all of training camp and probably wouldn't see the field at all. The real realists also see that Thompkins probably hit the rookie wall. The real realists think Dobson played well for a rookie and equaled the production of a 10 year vet.

    Only the pessimistic realists think the rookies are as lousy as you portray them and only the pessimistic realists expect any kind of guarantee. 

    And the problem with the Pats in the playoof game against Denver wasn't the receivers being unable to stretch the field. It was the inability of Brady to get the ball to them when they did. He had three chances and couldn't even get it in the same zipcode.

    And since when has pessimism been equal to realism?

     



    That's a whole bunch of excuses, but the NFL is a bottom-line league and the bottom line was that the receivers didn't deliver.  Brady may have missed a throw or two, but there were a lot more plays where there was just very little separation against very light coverage. 

     




    If Brady is as good as he used to be, if there was any separation he should have gotten them the ball. He didn't need a five yard clear radius around a receiver before Moss and WW arrived.

    The other thing that keeps getting ignored is that teams won't respect and deep receivers unless you have proven you will hit them. You need to hit them at least ten times during the season. The Pats didn't do that.



    They (Dobson, Vereen) were hit multiple times deep during the season. They unfortunately dropped too many of them. Vereen I give a pass because of his wrist, Dobson not so much. Especially because he didn't drop a single pass his senior season in college. 




    And you feel that catching in college is like catching in the NFL?

    And you feel if a rookie drops a couple of passes on a play that historically is a low percrentage play, you shouldn't throw it to him any more? Or to Edelman or Amendola?
    Yet if Moss drops a couple it is ok?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:

    He's starting to help himself a bit my taking some accountability.  He's wearing the pants now, forcing Giselle to move to Boston so this LA glam crap can come to an end until his career is over, at least.  So annoying.

    Next, he's at least show signs of admitting he didn't play that well in postseasons where he hadn't for many years.

    Further, BB just did what all the whiny pink hats wanted here, which was to load up on defense.

    BB tried to do that on D to play to the Goodell NFL and it worked well overall, but it was not good enough to secure a title, mainly due to Brady's own disappearences when the chips were on the table.

    So, enough with this "Brady does not have any help" crap.  LaFell is like a David GIvens, they have 3 younger WRs, two of whom had very nice rookie years, and with Brady in Boston in the offseason for once and likely at the facility with these WRs on a regular basis, it bodes well for continued growth in the passing game.

    Amendola put up Patten production last year and Edelman back again only helps.

    The WR position is actually LOADED with talent and now there is a base of contiuity moving forward, as opposed to swapping out WRs every offseason like has been happening.

    I would say BB is pretty happy overall with what he has. The question remains....Will Brady and his spoiled self be just as happy in January?  No more hands on the hips and stare downs with pouting, please.

    It's all about Brady now.  QBs can only dream of having Gronk to throw to, too. 

    Leave it to Handy to think a name on a jersey that ESPN praises at WR somehow is how you satisfy Brady.  lol

    Absolutely clueless. Mike Wallace is being paid 13 mil per down in Miami as a bust, on his way out. You, Mt Hurl, Pezzy, TFb12, etc, were all pining for a guy like that in here last offseason.

    You were warned.

    Finally, if someone like Steve Smith does not want a ring and wants an ego stroke with more money, choosing Baltimore's cap hell over a legit SB run here, that's his choice.  BB cannot force stubborn vets into making the better decision.

    You'd have to be a moron to think Baltimore is in bettter position for a playoff berth and SB title than the Pats.

     



    Now that's a load . . . 

     




    Actually, no it isn't, the wide receiver corp has more talent than it has ever had and that includes the Moss years. During the Moss years there were only two receivers that got thrown to. One that stretched the field and one that was good out of the slot. Maybe occasionally Stallworth would show up.  Now the Pats have two good guys that can play the slot. Two guys that can play outside the numbers and three guys that can stretch the field (at least they could if Brady could throw down field with any kind of accuracy). Anyone they bring in has less than a 15% shot of actually being thrown to no matter what their talent level is.  It ends up being a waste of a roster slot.




    Congrats!  You now are up there with your mentor, or alter ego, for one of the most RIDICULOUS POSTS I HAVE EVEN READ!!!!!  More talent than 2007?   BWAHAHA

    Faulk 47

    Welker 112

    Moss 98

    Stallworth 46

    Watson 36

    Gaffney 36

     

    Last year they had EDELMAN and rookie jags that couldn't catch 50% of their passes and led the league in DROPS,  with a whopping 37, 32 and 9 catches for the rooks.  That's less than Watsons, Gaffney and freaken Kyle Bradys receptions.

    Just say no to the rusty stupid juice.  It causes permanent BRAIN DAMAGE




    So the real tally is 4 talented receivers during the Moss years compared to 5 talented receivers last year.

    The only reason they lead the league in drops is because if any part of a receiver touches the ball, whether it is catchable or not is called a drop. They all got a lot better once Brady stopped throwing it over their heads or behind them or at the gound in front of them. But you can call them jags if that helps you sleep at night.

    Oh and in case you didn't notice the rules of the game changed again last year. The Polian rules seem to have gone the way of the dinosaur. Defenses are being allowed to be defenses again.



    No It's considered a drop if it's CATCHABLE!

    They were all catchable. 

    There was 1 (ONE) talented receiver last year, and no other team even wanted him when he hit FA.  I have no freaken idea where you came up with 5.  Catching 38-48% of your passes is PATHETIC. 

    The others wouldn't start on another team.  This was the LEAST talented group of receivers in Brady's tenure.

    The absolute worst! EVA

    Psycho, distorted babble and now a liar too.

    Brady was hitting plenty of long balls all year.  He didn't hit 10 all year?  Heh, Rusty?

    Here. look it up, and do some research before you make any more ridiculous statements.

    Ugh.  The garbage TB has had to throw to is insane.  The garbage wr's, bb drafts and brings in is INSANE!  You can count on 1 hand the talented receivers TB had, in 14 years. Pathetic

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201310130nwe.htm

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    So the real tally is 4 talented receivers during the Moss years compared to 5 talented receivers last year.



    Who were the talented receivers last year?

    Failed QB turned kick returner turned wide receiver (who tried to go out and get more money but failed and had to come back and accept his real value).

    Injury Guy

    2nd Round Rookie

    Undrafted Rookie

    Undrafted Rookie

    Blocking TE

    Blocking TE

    Injured TE

    Slater!

    Please tell me which of these you are choosing as your five talented wide receivers that combined, were better than Moss and Welker alone.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from cyncalpatfan. Show cyncalpatfan's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    And you feel that catching in college is like catching in the NFL?

    And you feel if a rookie drops a couple of passes on a play that historically is a low percrentage play, you shouldn't throw it to him any more? Or to Edelman or Amendola?
    Yet if Moss drops a couple it is ok?



    Some people here have some very absurd expectations when it comes to rookies and zero tolerance when it comes to player development.  Then there is this group of posters who can never allow themselves to believe, for even a moment, that TB is capable of making mistakes, or bares any responsibility for the performance of the offense...except, of course, when it is doing well.

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Help for #12

    Week, there is no FA wr or draft pick who is going to make some of you happy, excepts desean Jackson, so iI guess you have already thrown in the towel

    the three rooks all have speed, or should I say second year players. Each one showed something, i choose to be positive about them. they are good enough to to spread the field.      I also don't think we win without Gronk. And ridley has to hold onto the ball, vereen has to be Faulk like, and the Oline has to be better. If they all aren't playing well, we won't win. And again usually the most physical team wins, and in our losses, we haven't been.

    I do think Weiss is a better OC than Josh, but he isn't here either.

    We also don't know what sort of philosophy Bb is going to use next year? More running like the end?

    But I wasn't blown away with Seattle or SF's offense either. Outside of Percy, who had one reverse and a run back, there was only Wilson being hot on third downs. And Seattles d isn't that big either. 

     
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