Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to thehub's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Find a new team to root for you negative prxck. Try and enjoy the process and see what happens. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Find a life-read a Ghandi book-take a walk along the beach-meditate and get rid of the hate dude! It will eat you alive--just freaking football-a game for Christ's sake.

    [/QUOTE]

    Take a look at a mirror Jimmy.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to thehub's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Find a new team to root for you negative prxck. Try and enjoy the process and see what happens. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Here we go with the first Blind Homer - insults when a Pats fan is trying to be OBJECTIVE---if all you want is for posters to say great things about the Pats ALL the time I feel sorry for your personal life-because obviously you are not very bright and definately not objective--I hope your single so another human doesn't have to feel your Pain?

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't really know what objective means. You are simply being contrary. Big difference.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to thehub's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Find a new team to root for you negative prxck. Try and enjoy the process and see what happens. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Find a life-read a Ghandi book-take a walk along the beach-meditate and get rid of the hate dude! It will eat you alive--just freaking football-a game for Christ's sake.

    [/QUOTE]

    This doesn't even make sense as a response from you. Your initial post said "Bring it on." Now you tell people it is just a foot ball game and to relax. Your original post was meant to instigate. You knew it. Take your own advice.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When the Pats won their 3 SBs what did we have that we don't have now and have not had since our last win? Well Brady is still Brady so he hasn't changed. And he won with nobody receivers other than Troy Brown so lets not look at the receivers or TEs(one SB he had some TE from East Boston and won--LOL). So what is different? Here's what's different----other than Vince Wilfork, we have NO Defensive play makers on DEFENSE----we had Rodney Harrisson, Vrabel, Willie McGinnest, BREWSKIIIIII, Ty Law, Richard Seymour even Assante---name me one on the D side------thought so. Secondly we had a BACK that could Close out games and not fumble, like Dillon and Antoine Smith. Ridley and Verren(/)-give me a break! And until the Pats can solve teams that can get to the QB---- rushing 4 and dropping 7, like the G-men, Pack and Niners, (The Jets used to have this 2 years ago), they will lose because you inevitably will have to depend on your defense and we know how that's turned out the past 2 SBs. We have NO Safety that can cover and CBs that are either horrible, young and unproven or new(Talib). Maybe Dennard and Talib turn into a good corner pair but not this year.   So Until we get some "D" playmakers and a running back that can close out games, second place is all the Pats will achieve.        OK now all you HOMERS can throw your knowledgeable Pats crap at me---I'm waiting.

    [/QUOTE]


    Then I guess this means you are done watching the Pats and posting here. Goodbye.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    The defense may not have as many playmakers but their very young. The offense is better than the superbowl years. The Patriots are among 3 or 4 teams that could win it all this year. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Lety me define playmakers for you Digger:  a playmaker is a player that CONSISTENTLY comes up big in playoff/big games and on a regular basis. His body of work is such that his plus/negative regarding missed/bad plays are much less than his big plays therefore making his plus/minus differential hugely  favoring of his great plays, (didn't think I'd have to explain what a play maker is?)---sorta like the turnover margin where the Pats sit at + 21 ---You are cherry picking a couple of good plays by these guys and leaving out the countless times they've been burnt or just didn't show up---shame on you for distorting facts to support your argument--you sound like a politician!

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe there is more than one way to win the SB. The previous four years prove that you can win teh SB despite being in the bottom third on defensive yards. 

    As for CONSISTENT playmaking, you are promoting revisionist history, benefiting from 20/20 hindisght.

    At the beginning of the 2001 season, the Patriots had few playmakers too. The best playmaking WR was in thr dog house. I still remember callers on WEEI criticizing BB non-stop for benching the only offensive playmaker other than Bledsoe. Oh an with regard to that other playmaker - Bledsoe - he got injured early in the season.

    Who did people expect to make the plays? T Brown (an 8th round PR)? Wiggins? Patten? No way!

    Running backs? Faulk had fumble issues. A Smith was nobody. Pass? Redmond?

    On defense? Are you kidding?

    Let's start with the LB corps. Bruschi was no different from Mayo now. Had a lot of tackles but was not feared in the league. Mcginest? Very good, not feared either. That leaves us with the following: Vrabel, cast off from Steelers; Cox (cmon); Johnson (Mayo ahs better numbers)

    DL... Seymour (a rookie trying to play NT at 300 lbs); Pleasant; Hamilton

    Secondary... Sure, Milloy, Law, Jones.

    NWE made critical plays on a lot of games, but it was not the same people all the time. Big plays were made by different people. The same people who were nobodies.

    Brown and Faulk embedded in fans' minds now. But the other names - Wiggins, Pleasant made them too... Cloud. He made a couple of big plays in the playoffs for the Pats. Do you even remember him?

    The big plays came from everywhere (even from the ST thatw as maligned earlier in the season). In recognition, if you remember,  the team demanded to be introduced together on the SB - not the individual PLAYMAKERS.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    BTW... Despite winning the SB, people, back in 2002, kept saying NWE did not have playmakers. When they did not make the playoffs, football fans all over thought they were a one year wonder.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    There must be some sort of lag in the space time continuum. For a couple of years I've been saying the defense was THE problem, while many showered me with scorn for the effort, then when it finally looks like we may have turned the corner on that, others are embracing the previous point of view.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    I agree that playmakers are needed.  Bruschi not too talanted but MADE HUGE PLAYS.  MAYO don't make huge plays but is more talented.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There must be some sort of lag in the space time continuum. For a couple of years I've been saying the defense was THE problem, while many showered me with scorn for the effort, then when it finally looks like we may have turned the corner on that, others are embracing the previous point of view.

    [/QUOTE]

    Frankly anybody who thinks it was the defense or the offense that was responsible for them winning three SBs and getting to two more wasn't paying attention. They had a very good defense in the early BB years and through 2008.  But it wasn't without flaws and they weren't solely responsible for them winning all those games.

    They were fortunate to win those Super Bowls. Got outplayed in the Snow Bowl, almost gave it up late against the Rams, made the incredibly mediocre Jake Delhomme look like Johnny U, and let McNabb throw a ridiculously easy TD late in that game. Might have lost that one if the Eagles didn't self destruct.  The defense couldn't hold up in the second half of the 2006 AFCCG, or they'd have won the SB that year.  

    So, yeah they had a better defense back then but the offense did its part.  I'll say it again, they gave up 17, 29 and 21 points in the SBs they won, and 17 and 21 in the ones they lost.  It's a fine line between dynasty and second place.

    Then there's the myth of the dominating running game...another time.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from laurienyc13. Show laurienyc13's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

     I was just saying that I still believe they can win... In sports things that no one sees coming happen.. Two amazing things come to mind The Red Sox's 2004 comeback and winning it all and i remember as a kid The USA Hockey team beating the Russians then going on to win the Gold medal, on paper they were not even close to their competitors but sometimes all that goes out the door. the intangibles that can't be measured are there. I see the fire in Brady's eyes and a young team that each week has a different player stepping up, So anything is possible..  I think too that at any time in Football something happens and people sit and analyze the why and how, like the game with Houston, things just click and players that aren't always the dominate playmakers step up. Look at how Watt was stopped, he laughed at how the PATS prepared for him, so its not always the "named" players that are the hero's its the ones that want to get noticed and coaches don't emphasize their ability because they don't think much of them..So I think that the PATS are in good shape..  Name one team that has a good record that hasn't had an unexplained loss. This is the time when the teams that have the better coaches and experience have an edge we have Brady too. So I will stay positive and see my glass half full. I'd rather live that way anyway!!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There must be some sort of lag in the space time continuum. For a couple of years I've been saying the defense was THE problem, while many showered me with scorn for the effort, then when it finally looks like we may have turned the corner on that, others are embracing the previous point of view.

    [/QUOTE]

    Frankly anybody who thinks it was the defense or the offense that was responsible for them winning three SBs and getting to two more wasn't paying attention. They had a very good defense in the early BB years and through 2008.  But it wasn't without flaws and they weren't solely responsible for them winning all those games.

    They were fortunate to win those Super Bowls. Got outplayed in the Snow Bowl, almost gave it up late against the Rams, made the incredibly mediocre Jake Delhomme look like Johnny U, and let McNabb throw a ridiculously easy TD late in that game. Might have lost that one if the Eagles didn't self destruct.  The defense couldn't hold up in the second half of the 2006 AFCCG, or they'd have won the SB that year.  

    So, yeah they had a better defense back then but the offense did its part.  I'll say it again, they gave up 17, 29 and 21 points in the SBs they won, and 17 and 21 in the ones they lost.  It's a fine line between dynasty and second place.

    Then there's the myth of the dominating running game...another time.

    [/QUOTE]


    The difference in the wins and losses, considering points given up is not that simple or black and white.  The defense in the winning years gave up, 17,29,and 21 points against offenses that had 4-6 MORE opportunities to score, which means they had to make 4-6 MORE stops in those games.

    Giving up 17 and 21 in 8 possession games (which both losses were), because the D could not get off the field, is not very impressive considering they only had to stop them 4-6 LESS times than your average NFL game.

    Not only did they have to make less stops, they robbed their own offense of 4-6 more opportunities to score. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When the Pats won their 3 SBs what did we have that we don't have now and have not had since our last win? Well Brady is still Brady so he hasn't changed. And he won with nobody receivers other than Troy Brown so lets not look at the receivers or TEs(one SB he had some TE from East Boston and won--LOL). So what is different? Here's what's different----other than Vince Wilfork, we have NO Defensive play makers on DEFENSE----we had Rodney Harrisson, Vrabel, Willie McGinnest, BREWSKIIIIII, Ty Law, Richard Seymour even Assante---name me one on the D side------thought so. Secondly we had a BACK that could Close out games and not fumble, like Dillon and Antoine Smith. Ridley and Verren(/)-give me a break! And until the Pats can solve teams that can get to the QB---- rushing 4 and dropping 7, like the G-men, Pack and Niners, (The Jets used to have this 2 years ago), they will lose because you inevitably will have to depend on your defense and we know how that's turned out the past 2 SBs. We have NO Safety that can cover and CBs that are either horrible, young and unproven or new(Talib). Maybe Dennard and Talib turn into a good corner pair but not this year.   So Until we get some "D" playmakers and a running back that can close out games, second place is all the Pats will achieve.        OK now all you HOMERS can throw your knowledgeable Pats crap at me---I'm waiting.

    [/QUOTE]

    Dude, why spend all this work trying to sound like a complete pri** when you could've done it in one line?  "I'm a fair weather Pats fan" is your basic idea here. 

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    The difference in the wins and losses, considering points given up is not that simple or black and white.  The defense in the winning years gave up, 17,29,and 21 points against offenses that had 4-6 MORE opportunities to score, which means they had to make 4-6 MORE stops in those games. Giving up 17 and 21 in 8 possession games (which both losses were), because the D could not get off the field, is not very impressive considering they only had to stop them 4-6 LESS times than your average NFL game. Not only did they have to make less stops, they robbed their own offense of 4-6 more opportunities to score.


    It is simple pezz. The defense was better in the early years. The offense is better now. To me that's a wash. The difference in the wins and losses is just one or two plays. That's it! Whether it's on offense or defense it doesn't matter.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    The difference in the wins and losses, considering points given up is not that simple or black and white.  The defense in the winning years gave up, 17,29,and 21 points against offenses that had 4-6 MORE opportunities to score, which means they had to make 4-6 MORE stops in those games.

    Giving up 17 and 21 in 8 possession games (which both losses were), because the D could not get off the field, is not very impressive considering they only had to stop them 4-6 LESS times than your average NFL game.

    Not only did they have to make less stops, they robbed their own offense of 4-6 more opportunities to score. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Fascinating, but the bottom line is the offense won the game against St. Louis with a last minute drive after the defense surrendered the lead. And they were bailed out by three St. Louis turnovers or else the Rams would have won comfortably.  They ran and passed up and down the field basically all game, but especially in the second half.

    The offense (with the help of the Carolina placekicker) won the game against the great (?) Jake Delhomme after the defense gave up three 4th quarter TDs.  They more or less fell apart. 

    The defense nearly did the same thing against Philly, but they were lucky Reid and McNabb choked.

    2007, just make a play playmakers. One play, is that too much to ask?

    Last year, the offense failed to make a play and the defense gave up a late drive. Winnable game they let get away.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    Such positive thinking from a FAN or group of fans!!  I'd rather have the mind set of the players who believe they can still get to and win a super bowl!!  There are a lot of fans who wish they had a team like we do which has been in the conversation about who can win the next SB year in and year out lately.  Until the fat lady sings, never rule them out!  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    The difference in the wins and losses, considering points given up is not that simple or black and white.  The defense in the winning years gave up, 17,29,and 21 points against offenses that had 4-6 MORE opportunities to score, which means they had to make 4-6 MORE stops in those games. Giving up 17 and 21 in 8 possession games (which both losses were), because the D could not get off the field, is not very impressive considering they only had to stop them 4-6 LESS times than your average NFL game. Not only did they have to make less stops, they robbed their own offense of 4-6 more opportunities to score.



    It is simple pezz. The defense was better in the early years. The offense is better now. To me that's a wash. The difference in the wins and losses is just one or two plays. That's it! Whether it's on offense or defense it doesn't matter.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry, Don't agree.  How is a wash when the poor defensive play is keeping the (better) offense off the field? 

    Is the offense that much better now that they can score as many points now in 8 possessions as they could before in 13 possessions?  Don't think so and I don't think it's realistic to expect that.  You can't score from the side lines and there is a huge difference in scoring in 3 of 8 possessions compared to 5 or 6x's in 12-14 possessions.  The more possessions, the more likely you are to score.

    Look at it this way.  The Pats in the SB scored on  about 40% of their 8 possessions.  The D allowed 50% of their possessions as scores.  That's not acceptable and nor is the time they spent on the field for each possession. 

    If the D had gotten off the field in say 3 minutes pp (which is above average) as apposed to the pitiful 4 minutes and 45 seconds they consumed, the O would have had an extra 14 minutes and 4-5 extra opportunities to score.  The Pats O had the ball for 2:45 pp which is a little better than average.  As it stood, the Gints had a 16 minute advantage on O which is more than a whole quarter.  How is that good?  How does that help the (better) O?

    In the SB years the O & D both had the ball for = amounts of acceptable time ( or close to it).  That created more opportunities to score and required the D to make more stops, which they did and is the major difference in those games.

    Low possessions = low scores

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    The difference in the wins and losses, considering points given up is not that simple or black and white.  The defense in the winning years gave up, 17,29,and 21 points against offenses that had 4-6 MORE opportunities to score, which means they had to make 4-6 MORE stops in those games.

    Giving up 17 and 21 in 8 possession games (which both losses were), because the D could not get off the field, is not very impressive considering they only had to stop them 4-6 LESS times than your average NFL game.

    Not only did they have to make less stops, they robbed their own offense of 4-6 more opportunities to score. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Fascinating, but the bottom line is the offense won the game against St. Louis with a last minute drive after the defense surrendered the lead. And they were bailed out by three St. Louis turnovers or else the Rams would have won comfortably.  They ran and passed up and down the field basically all game, but especially in the second half.

    The offense (with the help of the Carolina placekicker) won the game against the great (?) Jake Delhomme after the defense gave up three 4th quarter TDs.  They more or less fell apart. 

    The defense nearly did the same thing against Philly, but they were lucky Reid and McNabb choked.

    2007, just make a play playmakers. One play, is that too much to ask?

    Last year, the offense failed to make a play and the defense gave up a late drive. Winnable game they let get away.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Well the O had 57 seconds to score a TD, after the D gave up the lead.  Not quite the same thing as having to score FG's with plenty of time left.  Doubt, if they had those extra scoring opportunities, it would have come down to that either.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    pezz,
    I understand what you're saying but your argument would hold more weight if the Patriots were destroyed by the Giants on the scoreboard. They weren't. The Patriots led most of the way while the defense were allowing lots of yards but only giving up field goals. The Patriots would have won both Super Bowls with a better defense, that's a no brainer. But they also would have won them with a play or two more from the offense or special teams.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's an offensive era never before seen in this league, with records dropping all over the place. Last night, Calvin Johnson, just passed Rice's regular seasons receiving yard record.

    Last year, 3 QBs threw for 5,000 yards. These aren't coincidences, these are patterns that reflect a change in the game.

    Translation?  Offense is up all over the NFL by design via Goodell. It's that simple. So, anyone putting MORE on any NFL D in this era while making excuses for a fledgling offense at times during games, is quite franky, not very intelligent.

    It's a game of attrition now more than ever. You concede points will be scored, so you emphasize other things like not allowing the big play or forcing as many turnovers as possible.

    Why any Pats fan is holding this D to some irrational standard, now or in the future of Goodell's NFL, is completely irrational. Never before has the phrase "defense wins championships" meant so little.  Offene wins championships.

    Hey, I don't like it either, but you have to up your odds by playing into what the system/environment is.

    I could see if this D couldn't stop the run, didn't battle, couldn't tackle, didn't make plays, didn;t force turnovers, etc, etc, but that's not the case.

    It's very clear what BB has built here on D is working and trending up.  The offense, however, needs to prove it can perform close to its capabilities in the postseson, otherwise we're going to be known as the 1990s Buffalo Bills.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    As far as I know, even with the changes, most D's can force a 3 & out, get a turn over and get off the field in less than 4:45 since the average time for the D to get off the field is 2:38 and 12 possession games.  Case closed,  unless you think the NFL standard doesn't apply to ONLY the Pats D.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NotPickinPeyton. Show NotPickinPeyton's posts

    Re: Here's why Pats WILL not win another SuperBowl.......

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jimmytantric's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
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    Was Bruschi a playmaker

    [/QUOTE]


    Let me remind you of the pick six TD against Manning in the snow, and I believe it was in the AFC Championship game--I can't believe you actually didn't see Brewskiiii as a playmaker--I want what your smoking when you watch the PATS!

    [/QUOTE]

    Bruschi did not have a pick 6 vs Manning in the AFC Championship game.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Well then it was the Divisional round-still your MISSING the point--the Brew WAS a playmaker!

    [/QUOTE]


    Jimmy,

    Just because someone does NOT toe your line of beliefs exactly, does not mean they are BLIND HOMERS.... Maybe you should just follow Tim Tebow to his next team and be their newest "johnny come lately" Fan.

    I see problems with the Pats... While I agree with your premise that this team does not have as many "PlayMakers" on Defense... I also believe as others have told you, that this Defense's woes can be overcome by an offense that can put the points up.

    Is this the "BEST" way to win the big game?  Probably not... Is it a way that "CAN" win the big game... YES!   If it were not for a few miscues in each of the two SB's that they lost then at least one of them would have been a win.

    As far as defensive "Playmakers" goes... this is pretty much a new defense ( AGAIN). VW is a fixture... but Francis and Love are coming into their own now.  They have NINK who seems to be mentioned regularly this year... so he must be doing something well.  They picked Jones and Hightwoer who both look good but need to do some growing...

    That brings us to the DB's.... is it that the DB's are not that great... or that the QB's have too much time to get an open receiver?   WHen the pats put pressure on ( not a regular occurance) how bad do the DB's look? Talib is a NEW part in the game here- can he be a shutdown CB?  Will he STAY?...  IF both of those come true then you may see this Def. step up and Suddenly have the "PLaymakers" that YOU cannot see with your jaded view of the team.  Are they perfect?  NOPE!!!!!  SHow me a team that is... Bears Def?... NOPE... Ravens Def, NOPE! SF's defense? Damned good but they too were scored on when they were not "Forcing" the game on others... 

    I understand YOU want a "SIMPLE" fix... it seems to be the thing in America today... BLAME it on someone else, and fit the square peg into your round hole....  but  I think YOU have proven for yourself what you wanted to let everyone know.... YOU ARE A JETS FAN... Stuck in New ENgland's  board... and just hate your life.

     
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