Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    all I said was his cap hit this year was very attractive to the team, and manageable the 2 years after that. He will be extended after 3 years and his cap hit will not be an impediment.

    you have stated emphatically that Flaccos contract is "bye, bye to the Ravens for years to come"...

    I never commented on Flaccos worth (I wouldnt have paid him that salary), only commented on how he impacts the cap.

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    Last time I checked that was an OLD team. 



    Not really.  Lewis is gone.  If Reed leaves the next oldest player who made any real contributions is Suggs at 30.  Now obviously Lewis and Reed are first ballot Hall of Famers so it's not like they aren't important, but the rest of the team isn't particularly old and tbh Lewis was over the hill by the end.

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    He will be extended after 3 years and his cap hit will not be an impediment.

     

    Explain this.  The combined cap hit over the last 3 years is 84.45 million.  Even if he were to agree to a 3 year extension FOR FREE (which is obviously impossible) the cap hit each year would be spread out to a little over 14 million (84.45/6).  They will either have to go longer or still eat a pretty large cap hit in the future.  Am I missing something?

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    I fail to understand the difference between Flaccos last 3 years and Bradys last 2 years that were just extended, other than the fact that Brady is older, making the risk to the Pats perhaps greater.

    Obviously, the Ravens see Flacco as their QB for the next 8-10 years.   

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I fail to understand the difference between Flaccos last 3 years and Bradys last 2 years that were just extended, other than the fact that Brady is older, making the risk to the Pats perhaps greater.

    Obviously, the Ravens see Flacco as their QB for the next 8-10 years.   




    There is a large difference between 3 years of 84.5 million cap hit  (Flacco's last 3) and Brady's previously 2 for 44.  In addition to get that number down Brady had to agree to an extension that averaged only 9 million a year.  And that only got Brady's number down to roughly 15 million.  Flacco has 2 years that are practically twice that without an extension.  It would take a heck of an extension to get Flacco's number down unless I am missing something.  A lot of years and a below market yearly value.  Yeah Brady got the guaranteed money, but who is to say Flacco will want to go that route?  He will be younger than Brady. 

     

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    and people said i was crazy for thinking he would get his $20 mil per

     

    this is great news, the ravens will be irrelevant for at least the next 6 years




    What are you talking about? The whole world knew he would get around 20.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    Seriously though rkarp I do not understand how you could argue previously that the Pats were going to be stuck with Brady's cap hit unless they gave him an untenable extension (5 for 100) and at the same time wave away Flacco's future cap hits that are even larger with "they will give him a 3 year extension".  What gives?

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    He will be extended after 3 years and his cap hit will not be an impediment.

     

     

    Explain this.  The combined cap hit over the last 3 years is 84.45 million.  Even if he were to agree to a 3 year extension FOR FREE the cap hit each year would be spread out to a little over 14 million (84.45/6).  They will either have to go longer or still eat a pretty large cap hit in the future.  Am I missing something?

     



    Yes, I think you are. His contract breaks down as follows;

     

     2013- Flacco received a $29 million signing bonus.  His salary is $1m. Cap hit $$5.8

    2014-Flacco received an option bonuse of $15 million. His salary is $6m. Cap hit $14.8

    2015-Flacco received an option bonus of $7 million. His salary is $4m. Cap hit $14.5

    The deal includes a $62 million payout through the first three years.

     

    2016-Flacco $18m base salary. Cap hit $28.55

    The deal effectively operates as a three-year, $62 million agreement since the contract is likely to be restructured after three years.

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I do not understand the structure of the Flacco's contract.  I don't think I've ever seen a contract so backloaded in my lifetime.  Unless they plan to cut him after year 3 they are going to have to extend him for a LONG time to make that part of the deal reasonable.  Consider that in order to get Brady's cap hit down from 21 million to like 15 NE had to extend him for 3 years at a below market average value.  Flacco will have 3 years of almost 30 million in cap hit if they don't extend him.  Perhaps they are banking on a significant salary cap increase because I don't see how they can get that number down without a HUGE extension.



    This is where the "capologists" come into play.  Obviously, there are contract allowances that teams know about that the general public does not.  For example, Flacco's bonus equates to 4.833 mill per year.  so simple cap understanding is that that amount + his salary equals his first year cap #, but his first year cap # is a million more than that.  How does that happen? 

    Anyway, what is evident is that nearly half of the contract is paid out in the last 3 years (58.6 mill).  If those years never happen then due to an extension or new contract.  It would seem to me that the new contract would have to include about 14.5 million in additional cap space for the unconsidered signing bonus from this contract.  But then again, I really don't how they get to the numbers they do. 

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Seriously though rkarp I do not understand how you could argue previously that the Pats were going to be stuck with Brady's cap hit unless they gave him an untenable extension (5 for 100) and at the same time wave away Flacco's future cap hits that are even larger with "they will give him a 3 year extension".  What gives?



    Brady was owed roughly $42m for 2 years with a cap hit of $42m

    Flacco in essence is owed $62m for 3 years but the cap hit is approx $35m over 3 years

    Rather than extend Brady for 5/$100, with the back portion of his contract pretty much not guaranteed, the Pats gave Brady 5/$75 100% guaranteed.

    After 3 years, the Ravens will owe Flacco approx $60m. They could extend him 6 more years (making the deal 3 years plus 6 years), revert the $60m to a bonus spread out over the 6 years ($10m per) and pay him a base salary on top of the bonus. Obviously, there will be some give on Flaccos part, or at the back end of his contract he will be cut, and the team will incur some dead money 

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    all I said was his cap hit this year was very attractive to the team, and manageable the 2 years after that. He will be extended after 3 years and his cap hit will not be an impediment.

    you have stated emphatically that Flaccos contract is "bye, bye to the Ravens for years to come"...

    I never commented on Flaccos worth (I wouldnt have paid him that salary), only commented on how he impacts the cap.

     




    That's correct.

     

    Quite frankly, I've seen very little from their drafts in recent years.

    Torrey Smith, maybe Jimmy Smith, Michael Oher and Upshaw showed some promise from last year's draft. Pierce looks like a good RB.  It's a very thing yield from their last few drafts leading up to this. Part of that is they are a veteran team, part of it is that Ozzie Newsome hasn't drafted all that well. Pitta was a good pick, Dickson, not so much. Over 3 drafts, it might have been 4 or 5 guys that are key guys, starters or complemetary types.

    I think their pipeline is thin for that kind of a transition and they don't have a lot of money to go get FAs or keep some of their own.

    If they were to lose Reed, it's even more of a blow on the heels of losing Ray Lewis.  A big reason why they won the SB is because Lewis came back, announced his retirement and that was all she wrote. Pretending two HOF players like Lewis and maybe Reed gone, is a positive in 2013 is moronic, even with their age.  

    Sergio Kindle and a guy like Mt Cody aren't guys I'd want to be looking at as starters in the future. They're basically busts, with Kindle leading the charge.

    2010 draft - average at best

    2011 draft - pretty good, but only 2 starters in the Smiths.

    2012 draft - Pierce, a good looking young complemetary back with Rice. But, it almost appears like Rice is wildly overpaid if Pierce is as effective, doesn't it?  Yep.

    If they were in a stronger position in 2013 or 2014, them gambling on making 2 more SB runs would make more sense. Even with a lower cap hit from Flacco, as big as a risk as it is lowering it down that far in year 1, they still will have problems signing any impact FAs.

    See, your problem is, you play contrarian and think every other AFC threat to NE is loaded and a perfect organization because you're basically a troll or one of the strangest Pats fans of all time.

    So, yes, I think that Flacco deal being more than Brees, Brady's, even Manning's is bad for Baltimore.  

    All of a sudden any QB that leads their team to a SB win suddenly commands future HOF QB money?

    Face it, Flacco's timing was perfect and he just cashed in.  Balt's best chance to win a 2nd SB will be next year in that contract.

     



    so the Ravens have had bad drafts in your opinion. Fair enough (but they keep going to the playoffs)

    that is not the point however. the point is that you said Flaccos contract will doom the Ravens. It will not.  

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    He will be extended after 3 years and his cap hit will not be an impediment.

     

     

    Explain this.  The combined cap hit over the last 3 years is 84.45 million.  Even if he were to agree to a 3 year extension FOR FREE the cap hit each year would be spread out to a little over 14 million (84.45/6).  They will either have to go longer or still eat a pretty large cap hit in the future.  Am I missing something?

     



    Yes, I think you are. His contract breaks down as follows;

     

     2013- Flacco received a $29 million signing bonus.  His salary is $1m. Cap hit $$5.8

    2014-Flacco received an option bonuse of $15 million. His salary is $6m. Cap hit $14.8

    2015-Flacco received an option bonus of $7 million. His salary is $4m. Cap hit $14.5

    The deal includes a $62 million payout through the first three years.

     

    2016-Flacco $18m base salary. Cap hit $28.55

    The deal effectively operates as a three-year, $62 million agreement since the contract is likely to be restructured after three years.

     



    Why is it "likely"?  You think everything is unlikely with NE's players and situations and then pretend you have some kind of a crystal ball for the positive spin for any other AFC competitor.

     

    It's your little troll schtick here.  Jets good, Pats bad.  Ravens good, Pats bad.

    lmao

    People are onto your little game here, RKrap.



    I dont ever recall using the term likely or unlikely for the Pats? You seem to remember every thing I have ever said on the board (even though you 100% of the time misquote me)..please tell me where I ever said anything of the sort?

    Brady, thumbing his nose at the players union (yet his name was on the suit against the league 2 years ago) gave up more money for a guarantee. While it is perhaps unethical, it seems quite reasonable that Flacco has a hand shake agreement on the back end of his contract. Certainly the Ravens wont cut him incuring $60 million in dead money, and just as certainly, they will not carry him with a $30 million cap hit.

    Knowing these numbers, what makes you think he will not extend after 3 years?

    I already mentioned on another thread, in the history of the NFL, there have been approx 10 $100 million plus contracts (including Bledsoe)..the most any team has paid a player on one of those $100 million contracts is Favre and he was paid $57m...no where the $100m touted in the media (I believe Bledsoe saw approx $30m of his $100m deal)

    My little game is enjoying making you look like a fool...please keep offering up ammo for me.

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Seriously though rkarp I do not understand how you could argue previously that the Pats were going to be stuck with Brady's cap hit unless they gave him an untenable extension (5 for 100) and at the same time wave away Flacco's future cap hits that are even larger with "they will give him a 3 year extension".  What gives?

     



    Brady was owed roughly $42m for 2 years with a cap hit of $42m

     

    Flacco in essence is owed $62m for 3 years but the cap hit is approx $35m over 3 years

    Rather than extend Brady for 5/$100, with the back portion of his contract pretty much not guaranteed, the Pats gave Brady 5/$75 100% guaranteed.

    After 3 years, the Ravens will owe Flacco approx $60m. They could extend him 6 more years (making the deal 3 years plus 6 years), revert the $60m to a bonus spread out over the 6 years ($10m per) and pay him a base salary on top of the bonus. Obviously, there will be some give on Flaccos part, or at the back end of his contract he will be cut, and the team will incur some dead money 



    The only thing to add is that years 4-6 are meaningless except as they relate to the spread of the signing bonus.  The compensation related to those years will likely never happen (imo) and is meaningless because the amounts are not guaranteed.  If the contract is redone, they have no meaning to that year or future cap #'s. 

    What is meaningful, however, is how the unrealized bonus of 4.8/yr for 3 years as it relates to the cap is handled.  That has to be included in whatever new deal is done.

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    I already told you how they would do it, 25 times, yet you still dont understand it. They will renegotiate 3-4 more guys saving an additional $10-$20m off the current cap space

    you were adamant to the absurd point of calling me names that the Jets could not go from $31 over the cap to under the cap. today they are $9 under (they carried over $3m)...so you were wrong about that (while I love to point out how wrong you always are, I do not stoop to your low IQ level of name calling)

    why does you being wrong about the Jets, make me a Jets fan?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    and just so we are clear, the last time I checked, there are 11 starters on offense and 11 starters on defense. lets also include the P, PK and Long Snapper. Thats 25 "starters"

    Of those 25, the Jets have 7 "starters" that are free agents; Landry, Keller, Devito, Greene, Moore, Slausen, Bell. there is also nothing to say that the Jets wont resign Devito and Bell

    as I said before, just because you are continuously wrong about everything you post, does not make me a Jet fan...but keep the ammo coming. Its raining here in Florida and I am having a blast making a fool of you


     

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    lots of high fiving going on here.  I remember when Brady took that so-called hometown discount after winning 3 superbowls so that the team would have space to pay other players and continue their run.  How'd that work out? 

    Then I remember Manning, taking a big contract, getting trashed here, then winning a superbowl. 

    So when brady took his big deal, most here said he deserved it, and he did.  Still didn't produce a SB.   

    Seems to me that the size of contract does not matter all that much. The details are more important and most large contracts don't get played out.  I don't really get the hoopla. 

    This board used to be all about SB victories.  That was it.  Now that that hasn't happened in nearly a decade you guys have gotten really petty about every other team. 

     

     




    Well for the most part it's about one person that likes to start threads continually about the salary cap. He loves to google articles about other team's so called short comings, bad contracts, aging units, draft busts, etc - it's not really about our football team anymore - it's about his agenda. It's no longer about us not winning Super Bowls, not spending to our own salary cap, missed oppurtunities, teams coming in here year after year in the playoffs and punching us in the face...it's about those same teams that beat us managing their salary caps wrong. It's pretty sad and laughable all at the same time.

     

    We have a good team. We have not won anything in ten years. Our hall of fame QB is getting older...I don't see why we need to run around in the off season bashing every organization when we ourselves rely on a aging QB to keep us going.



         Amen, brother. If the Raven haters would bother to examine the structure of Flacco's contract, they would see that it's a cap friendly deal for the team. Ozzie Newsome is one of, if not the best GM in the NFL.

         Come now...did the Ravens have any choice but to pay the man? The guy carried them to a world championship, and has taken over for Ray Lewis as the leader of his team. He EARNED his contract through his clutch play, and is a good QB. Whether he's elite will depend on whether he continue his stellar play, which he exhibited in the play-offs. 

         What did the critics expect...that the Ravens would let Joe walk, and bring in Michael Vick to lead them? Really...some of the posters here are absurd.  

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    it's been fairly accurately reported if the Ravens did not sign Flacco, they would have suffered the double whammy of the Brown giving him that record contract...

    look at the contract, it is pretty well laid out that Flacco will not get $120 over 6 years. He may get $120 over 9-10 years, but not over 6.

    Ravens had to keep Flacco coming off the SB. Ozzie did it

    Ravens had to create cap space this year. Ozzie did it

    Ravens had to structure Flacco's contract so that they could rework it in 3 years. Ozzie did it

    Given the circumstances of having to sign Flacco, I think the Ravens did a great job.

     
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    Re: Herman Munster = Highest Paid Ever

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    all I said was his cap hit this year was very attractive to the team, and manageable the 2 years after that. He will be extended after 3 years and his cap hit will not be an impediment.

    Flacco's cap hit in 2016 is brutal and he's not wort the same as Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc, in 2014 and 2015 either.  The Ravens will have relief in 2015, but these next 2 drafts will be huge for them in terms of them being a 12 win kind of team.

    You also have no idea Even if he does divert the 29 million in 2016, it will look very bad in 2017 and beyond.   Flacco will never be considered elite in the top 5 of QBs in thise league.

     



    I had to distill these posts down. 

    Rusty - the fatal flaw in your argument is that 2016 is almost an average NFL's player's career away.  So much can happen between now and then.  IMO, the 2016 cap hit is meaningless except that it creates a necessity to redo the contract.  This is absolutely no different than Brady redoing his contract now. 

    What will be on the books for the Raven's to deal with is what is left over from Flacco's signing bonus.  That will be about 14.5 million.  Everything else is window dressing. 

    the salary amount owed in 2016 and beyond are not guaranteed, thus they are meaningless.  They can be ripped up or reworked into an extension.  Rkarp is right.   

     

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