Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Where is the PAT's experience in this secondary?  Merriweather?
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]The 2 guys they brought in Bodden and Springs are both former Pro Bowlers!I hope that answers your question about the experience of the secondary.Springs is a multiple Pro bowl player and I believe that in 2006 Bodden achieved that same honor.As far as Hobbs is concerned he's a nickel back and return specialist, he's not a shutdown corner he's not physical enough to ever be a shutdown corner whereas Springs is capable of taking a side of the field away from a QB,Bodden is a big cornerback 6'1" Springs is also a taller DB at 6' even
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Gents - If I am wrong then forgive me.  I have read much here about Belichick playing players at multiple positions - BUT

    If Merriweather was more of a FS (which I take a bit of issue with - I have always understood that he was drafted to take Rodney's place, even if that is not the case today) then how come he has not taken Sanders place?  I've yet to hear glowing things here about Sanders.  If you want to call it development, so be it.  Which is a whole other arguement that I have made (why do pats fans get excited about draft picks as if they will become immediate impact players when the likelihood is that they are at least a year out because belichick covets vets more?) 

    I just find it interesting that someone like the all knowing Zbellino, here, likens someone like Marlin Jackson a bust who has started since the second half of his second season (sounds like Merriweather to me) but he (and many others) want to anoint Merriweather as some great future player. 

    He may be, but his starts last year were only out of necessity.  Now the team has brought in like 3 more safeties (why?).  Please don't just say depth. 

    Forgive me if I stick to my feeling that the jury is still out. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    I've posted this elsewhere and I don't have any earth-shattering inside information to support it (other than my inscrutable acumen), but I look at all these safeties hanging around and I hear everybody screaming about linebackers we didn't draft or sign -- and I can't help but think Belichick is getting ready to throw some bizarre, out-of-the-box defensive wrinkle at the league this year.


    Either that or I am entirely wrong.


    Cool

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Gents - If I am wrong then forgive me.  I have read much here about Belichick playing players at multiple positions - BUT If Merriweather was more of a FS (which I take a bit of issue with - I have always understood that he was drafted to take Rodney's place, even if that is not the case today) then how come he has not taken Sanders place?  I've yet to hear glowing things here about Sanders.  If you want to call it development, so be it.  Which is a whole other arguement that I have made (why do pats fans get excited about draft picks as if they will become immediate impact players when the likelihood is that they are at least a year out because belichick covets vets more?)  I just find it interesting that someone like the all knowing Zbellino, here, likens someone like Marlin Jackson a bust who has started since the second half of his second season (sounds like Merriweather to me) but he (and many others) want to anoint Merriweather as some great future player.  He may be, but his starts last year were only out of necessity.  Now the team has brought in like 3 more safeties (why?).  Please don't just say depth.  Forgive me if I stick to my feeling that the jury is still out. 
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Underdogg

    I personally am not annointing Meriweather the next anything.  I think he is an above average, very solid player that will get the majority of snaps at FS this year but he certainly could play at SS/nickel if need be.  How is that a bad thing? 

    When Meriweather was drafted, the debate was whether he would be interchangeable at FS and CB/nickel corner.  The fact that he was considered to have the skills of a corner and played some CB at Miami would seem to suggest that he was drafted more as a replacement of Eugene Wilson, another CB/safety, than Rodney, whose strengths were clearly run support and bashing TE's and wide receivers or anyone who crossed over the middle.   

    Re: James Sanders, I think he will get a lot of time at both safety positions.  If Chung emerges fast at SS, Sanders will be the depth guy since he can play both positions.  That in itself is valuable, as he is solid and above average at either position.  As for Springs, he can still probably play anywhere but will get most of his reps at CB.  McGowan?  He is a depth guy and I imagine he must be able to play special teams as well.  

    So...

    SS:  Chung (Sanders, McGowan)
    FS: Meriweather (Sanders, Springs)   

    I don't think the Pats are doing anything but building depth.  And I'd be surprised if Meriweather didn't tear it up this year. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    BB has started to move away from that FS SS desgination, he has said it himself. They tend to look at more left and right safety. I think Meriweather is a very solid saftey that defenitly could develop in to something more. He showed flashes of that when he made some game clinching plays. I dont think he was drafted with the thought he would be what rodney was, replace him yes (which he has done) but they are two very different types of safeties.
    Underdogg, 2 of those 3 that they brought in would be a long shot to make the roster in my opinion, they are probably training camp fodder, so I wouldnt say that is a vote of no confidence from BB. It probably has more to do with pushing other safety's like Sanders, Tank, Vetrone, Spann during training camp. The last two on the list have yet to really contribute on the actually defense and more on just special teams, so why not try to upgrade them?
    Besides for tackles Meriweather has better stats the Jackson, 2 sacks to Jackson .5 and 4 int to Jackson 3. Jackson has been in the league two years longer, so i dont think you can make much of an argument there, Jackson is a solid player, he is a little James Sanders like but he was drafted in the first round compared to Sanders in the 4th.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Wasn't Meriweather the alternate for the pro bowl?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]BB has started to move away from that FS SS desgination, he has said it himself. They tend to look at more left and right safety. I think Meriweather is a very solid saftey that defenitly could develop in to something more. He showed flashes of that when he made some game clinching plays. I dont think he was drafted with the thought he would be what rodney was, replace him yes (which he has done) but they are two very different types of safeties. Underdogg, 2 of those 3 that they brought in would be a long shot to make the roster in my opinion, they are probably training camp fodder, so I wouldnt say that is a vote of no confidence from BB. It probably has more to do with pushing other safety's like Sanders, Tank, Vetrone, Spann during training camp. The last two on the list have yet to really contribute on the actually defense and more on just special teams, so why not try to upgrade them? Besides for tackles Meriweather has better stats the Jackson, 2 sacks to Jackson .5 and 4 int to Jackson 3. Jackson has been in the league two years longer, so i dont think you can make much of an argument there, Jackson is a solid player, he is a little James Sanders like but he was drafted in the first round compared to Sanders in the 4th.
    Posted by thejoshuatree28[/QUOTE]

    FS and SS may be becoming outdated terms for sure, especially in Foxboro.  But clearly Bill plays to his players' strengths, and for lack of a better term, SS describes a Rodney Harrison type and FS is generally the smaller guy who is more of a coverage guy, a la Meriweather.  But as we all know, the Pats value versatility, and that is why they drafted Meriweather, re-signed Sanders and picked up Springs on the FA market. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]FS and SS may be becoming outdated terms for sure, especially in Foxboro.  But clearly Bill plays to his players' strengths, and for lack of a better term, SS describes a Rodney Harrison type and FS is generally the smaller guy who is more of a coverage guy, a la Meriweather.  But as we all know, the Pats value vesatility, and that is why they drafted Meriweather, re-signed Sanders and picked up Springs on the FA market. 
    Posted by BrooklineRob[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. Which is why I don't understand why the Pats gave so much to McGowan. He fills pretty much the same role as Sanders so his presence on the team's final roster seems redundant.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Kyle I think, as mike hinted at we may be looking at a new style of defense that uses a SS instead of one of your line backers in the 3-4 like a 3-3-5 Stack or something new, Safteys usually have a little more range than an ILB so BB maybe be looking more at traditional SS as a new and more unique position.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Some of these SS FS players (Chung MacGown Sanders) will see time on special teams. Chung and MacGown are depth moves that could see playing time if anyone in the Pats secondary is injured (Springs). Having depth at all positions in a sport where players are regularly injured is not a bad thing. Getting Chung does not infer that Sanders or Meriweather`s job is in jeopardy. It creates competition in camp; something all teams strive to attain. If Chung turns out to be Rodney 2.0 I`m sure alot of people on this board will be very happy.

    As for Hobbs, I think the expectations after Asante left were huge; huge enough for many to think Hobbs would have a breakout year and become the next Asante or Law; it didn`t happen. Time to move on with Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley, Springs and Bodden.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Why does everyone think our secondary is awesome now?  Shawn Springs is 34.  How good a CB can he be?  Leigh Bodden?  Never heard of him.  Wheatley and Wilhite are second year players.  Who knows if they're ready.  Butler is a rookie.  He'll be at the bottom of the depth chart until mid-season.  Hobbs left for contract reasons, not performance.  None of the naysayers remember him pre-injury, in the 2006 playoffs, shutting down the Chargers' and Colts' wide receivers.  He got injured returning kickoffs in the 2007 season - cause we really needed the field position that season.  Why did we spend money on over-the-hillers Springs and Fred Taylor instead of locking up Hobbs?  Unless Wheatley and Wilhite step up, this secondary ain't that good.
    Posted by themightypatriots[/QUOTE]

    Thank you for posting an honest quote. 99% of the people in here are BB ball lickers. If he traded Brady for Griese they would find a way to say what a great move it was. Giving away Cassel, Vrabel, and Hobbs for a 2,5, and 5 draft pick was idiotic. Period. Springs is washed up and injury prone. Taylor had a nice career but is an old RB with injuries. He is NOT another Corey Dillon pick up. Our secondary is pathetic and has not worked as a group. The Pats this year will have to outcore opponents and pray that Wilfork and Seymour stay healthy and rush the passer. Opponents will be filling the air with footballs, and so will we. Exciting, old school AFL stuff, but does it win a Super Bowl?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ritchie-az. Show Ritchie-az's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Springs was very good last year for Washington when he was healthy. And with Owens now in Buffalo, having Springs in the secondary is important because he owns Owens. I see Springs as an opening day starter, but I think at some point in the season the younger guys will push for more playing time, and he'll likely end up playing mostly in nickel and dime packages--that is, if he stays healthy for the entire season. When healthy, though, Springs is one of the better corners in the NFL, even if he is old.
    Bodden will have a good year. He's playing in the same system that he flourished in when he played for Cleveland, and he's playing for a big payout in 2010. He was a top-notch corner in 2007 and I fully expect him to be a consistant starter for the Patriots in 2009.
    Wheatley and Butler will be in fierce competition, and I fully expect one of the two to emerge as a starter by the end of the season. Wheatley has the advantage of having been in the system for a year, but Butler may be more talented (and less injury prone). Wheatley looked very good in his start against Indy, but can he stay healthy? Butler has a lot of skills, but can he make the transition to NFL starter in his rookie season? It should be fun to watch.
    Wilhite made a lot of progress in his rookie season, and did an alright job starting the final three games. He'll continue to improve through training camp and through the course of the 2009 season, and if injuries should open up opportunities for him to play, he'll be better than O'Neil was at any point last season.
    So, yeah, the 2009 cornerbacks are much improved over 2008.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Prairiemike

    Stick with your gut it's coming. What I don't understand is . Why BB did'nt get a rookie to take Tank's spot if he don't make it all year? e.g. Nic Harris/ Keith Ellison/ Jasper Brinkley. It's kind of what he did in 07' with the big lead games when he use some one DL sets.

    underdogg
    the all knowing Zbellino don't speak for all of us. So take it up with him. Lord knows he likes to argue:) As for Harrison's drop-off. How many catches did Clark have in 07'. I know Rodney had 1 pick. And yes i'm biassed when it comes to Harrison. As for Meriweather he will be better suited as the deep saftey. If he don't bulk up or wrap up betterChung will play box safety. But both will do both. Here to hoping Sanders get's beat out.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Yes -

    not sure what you are saying here?  What's your point and which harrison are you talking about at which time? 

    In 2007 Clark had 58 receptions, 77 in '08

    In 07 Marvin had only 20 catches
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    underdogg, chung was not drafted to replace merriweather, he was drafted to play next to him. and merriweather wasn't drafted to replace rodney, her was drafted to replace eugene wilson, which he has done very well. i don't know why you aren't sold on him, he has made continued progress and is well on his way to being an excellent player, as uncommon pointed out. he brings speed and coverage skills to the back end. chung is a different player. he will bring big hits, toughness, and eventually leadership. they are going to be a great tandem for years to come. and lets hope wheatley and butler can be the top flight corners of the future. belichick is building this secondary the same way he built the d-line, and i for one am excited about it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Hopefully this new Defense incorporates a Pass Rush and some 3rd down stops.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sonieboy. Show sonieboy's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    I find it amusing that so many so called Pats fans fancy themselves as being much better at judging the potential of players than the coaches and especially head coach BB. If I were a betting man I'd put my money on BB and the Patriot staff as understanding team needs and the capabilities of players. Let the players compete for and prove themselves to the coaching staff and earn a spot in the rotation. How could anyone let alone a fan decided who will play where and how effective they will be without their ever having taking a snap. I'm totally confused. Sounds more like the government than a business.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonBobBlowhard. Show BostonBobBlowhard's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]underdogg, chung was not drafted to replace merriweather, he was drafted to play next to him. and merriweather wasn't drafted to replace rodney, her was drafted to replace eugene wilson, which he has done very well. i don't know why you aren't sold on him, he has made continued progress and is well on his way to being an excellent player, as uncommon pointed out. he brings speed and coverage skills to the back end. chung is a different player. he will bring big hits, toughness, and eventually leadership. they are going to be a great tandem for years to come. and lets hope wheatley and butler can be the top flight corners of the future. belichick is building this secondary the same way he built the d-line, and i for one am excited about it.
    Posted by artielang[/QUOTE]

    Merriweather is a nice safety who was drafted in the first round. His performance to date has been no better than what one would expect for a safety drafted at this point in the draft. Not a "steal", not a "gem." Remember, Polomau and Reed were two safeties also drafted late in Round One by good teams. THOSE were gem picks. It is likely Chung is not nearly as good as Merriweather and there are serious coverage issues here. He could be similar to the Cowboys' Roy Williams, now in Cincinnati.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    You are partially correct. Polomau was drafted at 16 mid first round. As for coverage issues with Chung, he can cover the tight end as well as any strong safety and the middle of the field in a zone. Roy Williams is a bigger slower player who couldn't cover in Oklahoma and was drafted too soon by Dallas due to his reputation as ahitter. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]I find it amusing that so many so called Pats fans fancy themselves as being much better at judging the potential of players than the coaches and especially head coach BB. If I were a betting man I'd put my money on BB and the Patriot staff as understanding team needs and the capabilities of players. Let the players compete for and prove themselves to the coaching staff and earn a spot in the rotation. How could anyone let alone a fan decided who will play where and how effective they will be without their ever having taking a snap. I'm totally confused. Sounds more like the government than a business.
    Posted by sonieboy[/QUOTE]

    Yeah yeah yeah, BB is perfect, he's won 3 SBs, I've won zero.  So no one is allowed to post any opinions on this board.  All we can do is start posts saying, "Another brilliant move by BB.  33 year old Fred Taylor should be even better than Corey Dillon was in his second season with the Pats." 

    How could anyone say people aren't allowed to disagree with BB on this forum?  Sounds more like totalitarianism than democracy. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Yeah yeah yeah, BB is perfect, he's won 3 SBs, I've won zero.  So no one is allowed to post any opinions on this board.  All we can do is start posts saying, "Another brilliant move by BB.  33 year old Fred Taylor should be even better than Corey Dillon was in his second season with the Pats."  How could anyone say people aren't allowed to disagree with BB on this forum?  Sounds more like totalitarianism than democracy. 
    Posted by themightypatriots[/QUOTE]You can post any position you want but keep in mind that this is a Patriots site in which the fans are generally satisfied with the ability of BB. Consequently if you take an opposing view don't be surprised if people don't agree with you.  If you want people to agree with your criticism of BB, post on a Jets site.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ricky1554atl. Show ricky1554atl's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Yeah yeah yeah, BB is perfect, he's won 3 SBs, I've won zero.  So no one is allowed to post any opinions on this board.  All we can do is start posts saying, "Another brilliant move by BB.  33 year old Fred Taylor should be even better than Corey Dillon was in his second season with the Pats."  How could anyone say people aren't allowed to disagree with BB on this forum?  Sounds more like totalitarianism than democracy. 
    Posted by themightypatriots[/QUOTE]

    Post whatever you want. Some will agree, some will disagree. Belichick has brought us three world championships. How many before him? Some of his moves work out and some don't. But many here appreciate what has occurred since he has been here. How many coaches out there with 3 rings? You don't think Bill Walsh or Jimmy Johnson or Chuck Noll were revered in their cities? What did you expect. Criticize all you want. But if you come across as a "know it all" then you better be prepared to take a lot of heat over it. It's happened to many here including me. It's not so much what you say....but how it comes across to the ones reading it.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    Hey man if you want to disagree with me then bring it on.  I just hope you have a better reason than "It's good enough for BB."  Cause I assure you he doesn't wake up in the morning and say, "Those decisons I made must have been right ... because I'm the one who made them."  So if you're such a BB disciple then explain his moves otherwise you know nothing more than a jets fan. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Post whatever you want. Some will agree, some will disagree. Belichick has brought us three world championships. How many before him? Some of his moves work out and some don't. But many here appreciate what has occurred since he has been here. How many coaches out there with 3 rings? You don't think Bill Walsh or Jimmy Johnson or Chuck Noll were revered in their cities? What did you expect. Criticize all you want. But if you come across as a "know it all" then you better be prepared to take a lot of heat over it. It's happened to many here including me. It's not so much what you say....but how it comes across to the ones reading it.
    Posted by ricky1554atl[/QUOTE]

    Belichick is the best coach in the NFL, but he's not winning a title without Brady.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ricky1554atl. Show ricky1554atl's posts

    Re: Hobbs better than Springs, Bodden

    [QUOTE]Belichick is the best coach in the NFL, but he's not winning a title without Brady.
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]

    Yea, I don't remember the last time Belichick threw a touchdown pass.
     

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