Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/13/2010 2:44 PM EDT
- croc
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
In Response to Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets : BS...this is a no cap year. There's no excuse for the Pats sitting on their hands while the Ravens, the team that embarrassed them on their home field in the play-offs, and the Jets, their top divisional rival, took steps to improve. What WR do the Pats hope to get in the draft that could be as good as Anquan Boldin, or Santonio Holmes? Dez Bryant?? Even assuming he was available at #22, would you want to see the Pats use their 22nd overall pick on a WR...instead of using it to improve their weak defense? Please stop with the Brandon Marshall fantasies. There's no way Bob Kraft wants him. Besides, would you like to see the Pats trade their 22nd overall pick for him? How about even a 2nd rounder? Then, the Pats would have to sign him...and he wants huge dollars. Do you want to see the Pats invest millions in Marshall...who hasn't seen a woman who he doesn't want to smack? Why do you think Josh McDaniels wants to unload Marshall? If McDaniels doesn't want him, what makes you think that BB will?
Posted by TexasPat3
Marshall is much more the type receiver they need than is Boldin. The Pats need a deep threat WR, which Marshall is.
He will likely be dealt for a second rounder during the draft, which the Pats have 3 of.
Holmes makes him look like a virtual choir boy. But yes they'd need to have some type of assurances he'd be a better citizen. Some think if he gets his long term deal in another situation it's quite possible he will be much improved person.
He doesn't want to stay in Denver.
Will he likely come to NE? No, but it's far from being a fantasy.
ETA - The Pats would have had to part with a 2nd rounder for Boldin.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/13/2010 3:23 PM EDT
- TexasPat3
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
In Response to Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets : Marshall is much more the type receiver they need than is Boldin.
RESPONSE: I think that Marshall is extremely talented...but he''s an airhead. Boldin is more disciplined, tough, runs betters routes, and by all accounts is a leader in the locker room. He'd be the perfect compliment to Randy Moss.The Pats need a deep threat WR, which Marshall is.
RESPONSE: Moss is their deep threat WR. Besides, Boldin's career stats compare favorably to Marshall's: http://www.nfl.com/players/anquanboldin/careerstats?id=BOL283010; http://www.nfl.com/players/brandonmarshall/careerstats?id=MAR370922 He will likely be dealt for a second rounder during the draft, which the Pats have 3 of.
RESPONSE: Had the Pats signed Boldin, they wouldn't hhave to use one of their three second rounders on a WR. Instead, they could use it to solidify their weak defense, or their overrated OL. Plus...Marshall wants a ton of dough. Holmes makes him look like a virtual choir boy.
RESPONSE: Oh really? You have a short memory, my friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall (check the section entitled "legal trouble")But yes they'd need to have some type of assurances he'd be a better citizen. Some think if he gets his long term deal in another situation it's quite possible he will be much improved person. He doesn't want to stay in Denver. Will he likely come to NE? No, but it's far from being a fantasy.
RESPONSE: No way Bob Kraft or BB will invest in this knucklehead.ETA - The Pats would have had to part with a 2nd rounder for Boldin.
RESPONSE: Would I want the Pats to invest a 5th rounder for a one year rental/trial period on the guy, if the deal were offered? Sure. But...to invest a 2nd rounder and big bucks...hell no.Posted by croc
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/13/2010 4:29 PM EDT
- croc
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Moss is the deep threat this year. Boldin catches mid-short range passes and had tons of YAC. Not quite the same as Welker, but he's not a deep threat. Marshall could be the deep threat going forward.
Well Boldin would have cost a second rounder.
Niether of us is is Kraft or BB and neither knows what the Pats brain trust thinks of him.
Pittsburgh was prepared to dump Holmes for nada. He's a dingaling beyond Marshall and many others. Denver will get at least a 2nd rounder for Marshall.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/13/2010 4:49 PM EDT
- garytx
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In Response to
Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
No matter how you slice it, giving up the 155th pick in the upcoming draft for pro-bowl caliber WR, Santonio Holmes, is a steal for the Jets...even if it's only a 12 game rental:
http://www.examiner.com/x-779-New-York-Jets-Examiner~y2010m4d12-Jets-steal-Holmes-from-Pittsburgh While I understand that the Rooney's wanted to make a "statement" with this move...did they really have to trade him immediately, and to an AFC contender? I have to think that other teams would have given up a higher pick than #155 overall, had they been given the chance. I don't understand the great urgency to do a deal immediately. Considering that management could have gotten more for Holmes had they attempted to solicit offers, their insistence on dealing him immediately hurt their team. Thoughts?
Posted by TexasPat3
Well, it's been speculated for a time that this was going to happen. If a team wanted to get in on a trade I think they would have done so and not waited for him to become free. The Steelers got what they could for him plain and simple.
There must be a lot of bad news on the guy. Prison time can make a guy wake up in a hurry though, a pain in the butt no more. If the Jets did do anything in FA this is it but it still remains to be seen how fast Holmes comes back. Very much a high risk, high reward type of thing.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 12:26 AM EDT
- artielang
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they got a big talent and a big headache for very little. but any team could have had him for the same deal, and i really wish he didnt go to the jets. he'll help them win some late season games this year, no doubt. he'll end up in trouble again eventually, but in the short run, the guy can play. i wish he ended up someplace else (but not here).
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 1:21 AM EDT
- bobomul
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Tex is right. Super Bowls are always won in March and April. Just look at the last 5 SB champions, its been the off-season big name free agent signings in March and April that led to their emediate success in that commng season's playoffs and evenual SB championchips.
Jets over the Skins in this year's SB and you can take that to the bank!
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 6:39 AM EDT
- TexasPat3
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
Tex is right. Super Bowls are always won in March and April. Just look at the last 5 SB champions, its been the off-season big name free agent signings in March and April that led to their emediate success in that commng season's playoffs and evenual SB championchips. Jets over the Skins in this year's SB and you can take that to the bank!
Posted by bobomul
You're like Nero fiddling while Rome is burning. Be careful that you don't drown in the Koolaid, Bobo.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 8:27 AM EDT
- croc
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Jets moves all that great? They've done a good job drafting overall, but I wouldn't put them above the Pats at all. Last year was about spending on guaranteed talent, and they did well. This year it's been more about bringing in high risk / high reward guys, or guys with names.
Shonn Green has shown flashes. He was supposed to be the feature back last year, but took a back seat. He's still unproven. Washington is a good role player - right now all he costs is a 3rd rounder. There's no guarantee he returns. Letting Thomas go and picking up LT were horrible moves.
Revis and Harris were great moves, not so Gholston. Sanchez...Who knows? He's got the tools and the RBs have taken a step back. Sanchez will have his chance, no doubt.
Jenkins was very good while healthy and that is an issue now.
I like Edwards no question. Cro is very much a question mark. He's a porous tackler and had issues in coverage for SD albeit he's a ball hawk. He claims to like to play m-m. We'll see, the Jets will give him that chance. He still replacing a decent corner, and they let Rhodes a good S go. (I'm not seeing a net positive here regardless.) Holmes is probably the biggest risk/reward guy out there... I think he's just a bad guy - a drug dealer, substance abuse, domestic abuse, assult. - not pretty at all.
Tomlinson and Taylor are big splash signings (assuming Taylor signs) with little left.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 10:03 AM EDT
- TexasPat3
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
Moss is the deep threat this year. Boldin catches mid-short range passes and had tons of YAC. Not quite the same as Welker, but he's not a deep threat. Marshall could be the deep threat going forward. Well Boldin would have cost a second rounder. Niether of us is is Kraft or BB and neither knows what the Pats brain trust thinks of him. Pittsburgh was prepared to dump Holmes for nada. He's a dingaling beyond Marshall and many others. Denver will get at least a 2nd rounder for Marshall.
Posted by croc
So much for Brandon Marshall...now a Dolphin. Considering that the Pats have three 2nd rounders and let Marshal slide...I guess we now know what the Pats brain thrust thinks of him.
Marshall is a much greater risk than Santonio Holmes. The Dolphins not only invested the 43rd overall pick this year and next years' 2nd round pick...but they'll have to sign Marshall to a lucrative extension. Meanwhile, all the Jets had to invest for Holmes was a 5th round pick.
Good deal for Denver:
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2010/04/miami-dolphins-finalizing-trade-for-brandon-marshall.html
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 10:21 AM EDT
- underdoggg
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TP - I don't disagree with your assessment, but I think Marshall was worth the picks. He's a game changer.
How do you know that either the pats inquired about Marshall or the broncos contacted the pats about him. Marshall may not have been an opportunity for the pats.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 10:39 AM EDT
- TexasPat3
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
TP - I don't disagree with your assessment, but I think Marshall was worth the picks. He's a game changer.
RESPONSE: No question about Marshall's talent. But, he's a cl;assic case of body by Fisher, brains by Mattel. Parting with the picks is only part of the risk. The 'Fins will have to pay him big bucks, too. How do you know that either the pats inquired about Marshall or the broncos contacted the pats about him. Marshall may not have been an opportunity for the pats.
RESPONSE: If the Pats wanted him, they had the ammunition to get him. Bob Kraft doesn't have tolerance for women abusers. In 1996, Kraft and the Patriots took a lot of heat for drafting Nebraska DT Christian Peter. Peter had charges on him for an attempted rape. Soon after drafting him, the Patriots released him. I don't think that Kraft has ever forgotten that: http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/5932, and http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/45423Posted by underdoggg
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 10:43 AM EDT
it seems the pats are in a rebuilding mode.for they are doing nothing to compete for a championship this year.oh as many put,there is the draft.well how many of those picks will we use this year,and how many get traded for picks next year?the ones that are used this year,will be added youth to what we have,and we are talking a few years before the pats can contend for a championship.yes we have brady,and BB.but they cant do it themselves.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 10:51 AM EDT
- TexasPat3
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
it seems the pats are in a rebuilding mode.for they are doing nothing to compete for a championship this year.oh as many put,there is the draft.well how many of those picks will we use this year,and how many get traded for picks next year?the ones that are used this year,will be added youth to what we have,and we are talking a few years before the pats can contend for a championship.yes we have brady,and BB.but they cant do it themselves.
Posted by Vladtheimpaler1
I'm not sure that the addition of one good WR would have made the Pats SB contenders. They have too many holes. Unless they have a dynamite draft this year, and their younger players begin to step it up, this team will continue to decline.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 11:30 AM EDT
In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
Tex is right. Super Bowls are always won in March and April. Just look at the last 5 SB champions, its been the off-season big name free agent signings in March and April that led to their emediate success in that commng season's playoffs and evenual SB championchips. Jets over the Skins in this year's SB and you can take that to the bank!
Posted by bobomul
hahah
That was funny.
Jets = Redskins
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 12:21 PM EDT
- croc
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Marshall is a much greater risk than Santonio Holmes. The Dolphins not only invested the 43rd overall pick this year and next years' 2nd round pick...but they'll have to sign Marshall to a lucrative extension. Meanwhile, all the Jets had to invest for Holmes was a 5th round pick.
and money.
Marshall though is much greater reward. I have to believe that Tuna has some assurances Marshall will turn his act around for this type of comitment. I'd call this potentially a great move for both teams. Denver has several high picks, and Miami fills their greatest need with the best talent available.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/14/2010 4:53 PM EDT
- TexasPat3
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Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
...and money.
RESPONSE: Not so. The Jets only gave up a 5th rounder to rent Holmes for the 2010 season. They'll get to evaluate him as the season unwinds...before they have to decide on whether they want to keep him. If the Jets cut him loose...all they ventured was the 155th selection, in exchange for one season from a pro-bowl caliber WR.
Marshall though is much greater reward. I have to believe that Tuna has some assurances Marshall will turn his act around for this type of comitment. I'd call this potentially a great move for both teams. Denver has several high picks, and Miami fills their greatest need with the best talent available.
RESPONSE: How do you know? Surely you have to admit that giving up two 2nd rounders in exchange for an extremely talented head case is a high risk proposition. Even if the 'Fins get some assurances through contract language that he'll behave, what happens if/when he doesn't? Sure, they might be able to cut some of their financial obligations...but they'll never be able to retrieve those draft choices.
Posted by croc
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/15/2010 11:17 AM EDT
In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
In Response to Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets : I'm not sure that the addition of one good WR would have made the Pats SB contenders. They have too many holes. Unless they have a dynamite draft this year, and their younger players begin to step it up, this team will continue to decline.
Posted by TexasPat3
I hear you,a receiver is just one of many needs.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/16/2010 9:16 AM EDT
- Dunnieboy
- Posts: 99
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In Response to
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets:
wes welker had 123 catches 1348 yards and 4 Tds(holmes cant even hold a candle to that production even with 1 more Td) randy moss caught only 4 more passes than santonio for 1264 yrds and 13 tds!!!!... he's not holding a candle to anyone
Posted by 81pats12
This post is just plain funny ... so funny I had to respond to it. You must be forgetting that the JETS have Braylon Edwards, Jericho Cotchery and Dustin Keller to take the pressure off Holmes ... he will thrive. Oh yeah ... not to mention Tomlinson coming out of the backfield ... oh yeah ... who are your corners again .. I forget ... ours are name Darelle Revis and Antonio Cromartie ... good luck Pats ... you will need it.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/16/2010 9:54 AM EDT
what you meant to say was....Holmes steals a jet and is now dealing with prosecutors....much closer to reality this way....
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/16/2010 4:56 PM EDT
- TexasPat3
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The Ted Ginn trade serves to further underscore what a steal of a deal getting Holmes was for the Jets. The Greenies only had to part with the 155th overall pick to land Holmes, while the 49ers surrendered the 145th overall pick to land Ginn.
You have to wonder whether, as the Steelers claim, they sought out offers before unloading Holmes to the Jets. My guess is that they simply wanted him gone...even if they had to cut him. Clearly, such an emotional move was detrimental to their team.
Re: Holmes Deal a Steal For Jets
posted at 4/16/2010 5:17 PM EDT
- croc
- Posts: 2014
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- Last: 5/13/2013
Ginn never dealt drugs, beat his GF, threw a glass at someone or was suspended for substance abuse. He was merely miscast by the Phins 'brain trust' at that time, and was let go to create space for Marshall. Holmes is human excrement with talent. Clearly the Steelers have enough to deal with in Roethlisberger, let alone this trash.
