Homers and Haters

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    I have come to the conclusion that BB likes to challenge himself with less talented players to prove his genius. Why else? as great of a coach as he is, the football IQ, I can't imagine him being mediocre at identifying talent. The draft itself is a crap shoot, GM's across the league have drafted busts with top 10 picks, let alone second rounders. I like BB record on the first round though, there he has more hits than misses. He has work on getting his defense better, there's no doubt about it, it hasn't materialize yet, but it will. The lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball is not the only reason why they haven't won a SB since 2004. I've seen his top 5 offensive line get owned in the biggest games, I've seen the best QB in the league being less than average in the biggest games. They've had one of the greatest teams of all time post an 18-1 record, they had an amazing offense, a good defense, good specials team, and they still couldn't win the big game. What does that tell you? It's hard to win games in this league, It's hard to go to 5 SB and win them all.

    I'll still take BB as a gm/coach over any active gm or coach, I'll take Brady over any QB too.(homerish perhaps Laughing)

    It's all about execution, it's all about who wants it more, it's all about having some luck on your side too.

     

     


    " Don't Judge Me Untill You've Become Perfect "

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Good post, TP.  You make very good points.  Don't always agree with you on everything you do here but I agree on your original post.  There are a lot of questions that need answers concerning BB's drafting.  I think that is the biggest fault of him being both the coach and GM.  He doesn't have anyone to answer to or who will question his draft moves other then Kraft of course. 

    RESPONSE: My guess is that his poor drafts are a result of him being over-worked, and of him "falling in love" with certain players. I'm concerned over his concentrating on certain schools, such as the University of Miami, the University of Florida when Urban Meyer was there, and, now, Rutgers. I see him getting a bit too personally involved with the prospects. For example, he personally conducted workouts with his eventual top pick, Jamie Collins...and was very close with the players in the Rutgers program. As a result, he used his top pick in this years' draft, #52 overall, to select Collins...who most publications had rated as a 4th round pick. Having seen a bit of Collins in the preseason, he appears to be a better athlete than instinctive football player. Time will tell. Then, BB used his 83rd and 91st pick on two Rutgers' DBs, Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon. Ryan was drafted about where the publications predicted he would be, but Harmon was completely out of left field. It's disturbing that BB disregarded the advice of his own scouts in selecting Harmon so high.    

    Oh, I like your wrrite ups after games, hope you continue to do those again this season.

    RESPONSE: Thanks. I plan to. I hope I get to give out plenty of "A"s...LOL!!!

    What are your thoughts on having the Fantasy Football thread pinned to the top of the forum this year, just not in that bright red?

    RESPONSE: Still opposed. I'd prefer that this forum encourage and promote discussion on how the Pats perform and real football issues, rather than discussing how players are performing in Fantasy Leagues.




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    I agree with TP on this one--I believe BB's  strentgh to be Xs and Os, running an organization and game planning, yet when it comes to drafting he needs to find someone to draft the player positions he needs.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    What are your thoughts on having the Fantasy Football thread pinned to the top of the forum this year, just not in that bright red?

    RESPONSE: Still opposed. I'd prefer that this forum encourage and promote discussion on how the Pats perform and real football issues, rather than discussing how players are performing in Fantasy Leagues.



    Party Pooper!  I even invited you to play with us this season.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    Its funny to me how many folks think they know all about the draft simply because they read "everything and anything that I could get my hands on..." If you haven't figured out by now BB does not draft a player based on his college career, he drafts based on projections. How that player projects to develop (both physically and playing ability), how he projects to fit in the Pats system etc. Someday people will learn the draft is a crapshoot, there are no guarantees! Heck remember the Tony Mandarich cover of Sports illustrated that declared him the "greatest offensive line prospect ever" before he played a single NFL game. The result is predictable, he was a bust! So my advice to some of you would be this; be a fan! Enjoy the ride! Stop trying to be a General Manager when you ahve no idea exactly what it is BB is actually looking for in players.


    "Giggedy, Giggedy!"

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    From this ^^ ....

    to this^^ !!!!! The draft is a crapshoot no matter if its round 1 or round 7!

    "Giggedy, Giggedy!"

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanishPastry. Show DanishPastry's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to DanishPastry's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Look, I'm not saying you are wrong, TP, but any fair analysis should be comparative to other teams during that period. It is just too easy to evaluate some of the picks against what could have been. Would Clay Mathews have succes here? Would Oher? Who knows, though I would take Vollmer over Oher 7 days a week - and twice on sundays.

    RESPONSE: You're missing the point. I'm not criticizing BB for those trades he made, in 2009. I'm criticizing the selections he made with those picks...Butler at #41, and at at #83. As I stated above, it must be pointed out that one of those 3rd rounders he got from Green Bay in the Matthews deal was spun to select TE Rob Gronkowski, in 2010.

    Sure, there have been misses during the period, but what teams don't miss from time to time.

    RESPONSE: I could care less about what other teams do. I care about the Pats...and that's just too many misses...and too many lost opportunities. I'm not the only one saying this. Mike Reiss has suggested that BB hire a draft consultant, because of his many misses.

    Futhermore, I think it is somewhat biased to take a sample of years of BB drafting as evidence that he is a poor drafter. I think the 2010-2012 drafts have been great, though of course we could question the Hernandez pick.

    RESPONSE: Actually, I don't question the AH pick. It was one of BB's better choices. Who knew that he would end up being a murderer? BB never fixed his defense through the drafts, from 2006-present. The keys to this season are how much Jones and Hightower improve. Both must become impact players for the Pats to have a legitimate shot at a title in 2013.

    But in the end, I don't really care if he drafts well or not. Through more than 10 years the Patriots have been contenders on a fairly consistent basis. That doesn't happen if you only have a great coach and QB. You need other players as well. Come from the draft, UDFAs or free agents doesn't matter in itself.

    RESPONSE: The old Homer refrain.

    They are going to be contenders again this year. When the post-season arrives it is all about injuries. If Gronk is healthy in SB46 we win, and if Talib stays on the field in the latest AFCCG we are a h*ll of a lot closer than we ended being.

    RESPONSE: Here,  I tend to agree.

    My point is, the glass is (more than) half full, not half empty.

    RESPONSE: Who is being negative? I'm merely stating facts. Why is it that BB can never be criticized? I have acknowled that I consider him to be the greatest coach of all-time, and have praised him for his trades. My sole criticism is who he is selecting with his draft picks. I merely maintain that his failings in this area are a major reason why the Patriots have had a terrible pass defense over the past several years...and that it has cost them championships.  

     /QUOTE]




    Well, you are being a little negative. The players from those drafts did help take the team to two Super Bowls, and both times they were - as we are all painfully aware - so close. Your point seems to be that only BB the coach and TB should get credit for that. And I just don't agree. It's a team game, and you simply don't go to the SB if all you have is a coach and a QB. You don't.  

    Yeah, sure there were misses among the picks, that why free agency is also important. IMO, it's not about drafting well, it's about building a team that can content. Drafting is an important part of that, but they don't hand out medals for drafting.

    It takes a good team to make the playoffs, and it takes a great one to reach the SB. When you are there, it is all a matter of getting healthy, hot, and lucky at the right moment.

    My point about comparing with other teams is of course to get a benchmark. If BB is good or bad at drafting is relative to the other teams. What is par for the course over these same drafts? I don't know.

    Another way of judging the drafting of teams is to simply count the number of drafted players on a teams roster (drafted by the team itself). After roster cuts I'll see if I can find the time to do it for the Pats and some of the better teams.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    Edit of my previous post.

    Read you loud and clear, TP.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    Of course what you say is obviously true. There isn't even a debate, yet it gets debated endlessly. This is because of an assortment of agendas, all of which fall far short of objectivity. The prime agenda in this of course is simply homerism. As I have said, there is nothing wrong with being a homer; just don't try and offer that as pragmatic analysis.

    It was good to see Brady finally saying it even if not directly saying it. He has hinted about it for some time now with his "it's hard to win" comments.

    His praise of the defenses of old says it all. And one guy owns the lion's share of responsibility for the demise of that defense, and the prime cause of that demise is obvious; in sum, terrible drafting on the defensive side of the ball.

    As I have said, an excellent inherited defensive core and a lucky 6th round pick brought us a dynasty; it certainly was not any "genius" from the GM.

     

    ____________________________________________________________

    When asked after the war why he had seized the machine gun and taken on an entire company of German infantry, Audie Murphy replied simply, "They were killing my friends."

    http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/audie-murphy-2-1.jpg

     

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DanishPastry. Show DanishPastry's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    The Patriots' D, ranking based on pts./G against in regular season:

    2012: 9
    2011: 15
    2010: 8
    2009: 5
    2008: 8
    2007: 4
    2006: 2
    2005: 17
    2004: 2
    2003: 1
    2002: 17
    2001: 6

    The early-decade teams were inconsistent to a degree, some years great, other years so-so. But for 7 straight years they have landed in the top half in this category, and only in one of those years, 2011, did they end outside the top 10.

    Would I like a better D? Sure. I'm not trying to say that they are elite. What I am trying to say is that this is a competitive league, and what we've got isn't so bad.

    Supra societatem nemo

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    TP,

    I've said this before, and I'll (try) to say it again. I actually agree that BB has made some awful picks, especially on DBs. He takes chances, and he get's burned sometimes. However, I do think he's earned the right to take a few chance here & there. Just becuase the so-called draft experts say he should have maybe picked someone else, doesn't mean it was a guaranteed success. The entire draft is a crap shoot, no matter how high a player ranks. Just look at all th heisman winners over the years that suck in the NFL.

    My only problem with your criticism of BB drafts is the way you present it. Many of your posts come across as the "sky is falling"...whether intended or not. Then when people have differing opinions, many times you just call them "homers" and the mud slinging begins. Although you are a far cry from Rusty....you both do one thing the same way. You both don't handle other people not agreeing with you very well, hence the BS that ruins threads after.

    I (try) to be a glass half full person...whether it be about football or everyday life. I know damned well that this team is far from perfect, and we still have glaring question marks. But, I also don't lose track of all the positives just because I don't like certain things that they do. My point is that your posts seem to lose all positives. Hence the doom & gloom accusations. Yes I hate some of the picks too over the period you refer to....but there is still way more positive going on here. I'm just trying to enjoy it while the winning run continues. At times, I honestly can't tell if you are enjoying it as well.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters


    What made the drafts look so bad are all the busts on defense.  Staggering.  The biggest problem was while Pioli was here.  The drafting has been better since his departure.  The only question I have here is I haven't heard of anyone getting fired over talent evaluations.  BB has to listen to recommendations of some sort.  The Rutgers draft is troublesome to me.

    TexasPat.  This forum has got a bit nasty.  What use to be discussions have turned into bombing runs.  Most of your posts are critiques on the draft, games and nfl in general.  The crosshairs are going to follow you buddy!  One thing to remember overall is that you have your supporters here.  Don't let a couple of idiots discourage you from what you do.  When the first thing out of someones mouth is "troll" he/she doesn't have much of an arguement.  Critiques are great for discussions and that's what you do well.  But these days it comes with some name calling.  Remember your supporters.  I'll try to do a better job there.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to GO47's comment:

    But I agree the defense had a lot of misses both through the draft and through free agency during that time spand. But it is also obvious BB has been working hard to rebuild it with the Talib trade, all the linebackers drafted, signing of Kelly, Wilson, and hopefully Amstead. This could be the year we see this defense get to the next level. Only time will tell.



    It may be too early to tell, but were those defensive additions enough to the point where we can be top 5 in pts. against, 15 or better in pass defense, and top 5 in red zone defense? Our defense needs to win some games for us, get the offense back on the field.

    So far, I'm still thinking that this team needs to score a lot of points - and pray that the other team doesn't come back by 4th quarter

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters


    I would think the only thing one would have to do is look at the end of last year when the Pats picked up Talib.  The defensive backfield was good.  Pass rush was still an issue but the pass defense was good.  The only question remains is if Talib can stay on the field.

    So many changes on defense and on offense this year that we just need to wait and see what the team brings to the table when the season starts.  The first six games usually tells the story of what we have.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters


    Floyd Reese was hired in 2009 for the scouting/drafting process. How is he doing?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

    Its funny to me how many folks think they know all about the draft simply because they read "everything and anything that I could get my hands on..." If you haven't figured out by now BB does not draft a player based on his college career, he drafts based on projections. How that player projects to develop (both physically and playing ability), how he projects to fit in the Pats system etc. Someday people will learn the draft is a crapshoot, there are no guarantees! Heck remember the Tony Mandarich cover of Sports illustrated that declared him the "greatest offensive line prospect ever" before he played a single NFL game. The result is predictable, he was a bust! So my advice to some of you would be this; be a fan! Enjoy the ride! Stop trying to be a General Manager when you ahve no idea exactly what it is BB is actually looking for in players.


    "Giggedy, Giggedy!"



         If BB were knocking it out of the park with his drafts, I'd have nothing to say. But... 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to garytx's comment:


    I would think the only thing one would have to do is look at the end of last year when the Pats picked up Talib.  The defensive backfield was good.  Pass rush was still an issue but the pass defense was good.  The only question remains is if Talib can stay on the field.

    So many changes on defense and on offense this year that we just need to wait and see what the team brings to the table when the season starts.  The first six games usually tells the story of what we have.



         Agreed. The Pats were much better defensively once Talib came aboard. Yet, they continue to have problems landing a competent SS. BB has now spent the 48th overall pick in 2012, the 91st overall pick in 2013, and spent too much money to sign a has-been through free agency, in Adrian Wilson. I can't understand why BB passed on an opportunity to land the Rodney Harrison-like Bernard Pollard, at a reasonable price.    

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to anonymis' comment:


    Floyd Reese was hired in 2009 for the scouting/drafting process. How is he doing?



         What good is he, and the rest of the scouting department, if BB doesn't follow the scouting department's recommendations...as was the case with the Duron Harmon pick?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to Quagmire3's comment:

    Its funny to me how many folks think they know all about the draft simply because they read "everything and anything that I could get my hands on..." If you haven't figured out by now BB does not draft a player based on his college career, he drafts based on projections. How that player projects to develop (both physically and playing ability), how he projects to fit in the Pats system etc. Someday people will learn the draft is a crapshoot, there are no guarantees! Heck remember the Tony Mandarich cover of Sports illustrated that declared him the "greatest offensive line prospect ever" before he played a single NFL game. The result is predictable, he was a bust! So my advice to some of you would be this; be a fan! Enjoy the ride! Stop trying to be a General Manager when you ahve no idea exactly what it is BB is actually looking for in players.


    "Giggedy, Giggedy!"



    I'll go with your take on this Quagmire.  

    I'm pretty sure I don't know as much about player evaluation and how certain players may project than BB and his staff.

    Call me a homer because of this I don't care.  I'm just a fan not a GM.  I don't think any NFL teams are knocking on anyone on this forum's door for a GM job either.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to garytx's comment:

    TexasPat.  This forum has got a bit nasty.  What use to be discussions have turned into bombing runs.  Most of your posts are critiques on the draft, games and nfl in general.  The crosshairs are going to follow you buddy!  One thing to remember overall is that you have your supporters here.  Don't let a couple of idiots discourage you from what you do.  When the first thing out of someones mouth is "troll" he/she doesn't have much of an arguement.  Critiques are great for discussions and that's what you do well.  But these days it comes with some name calling.  Remember your supporters.  I'll try to do a better job there.



         Thanks for the kind words.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to TexasPat's comment:


         What good is he, and the rest of the scouting department, if BB doesn't follow the scouting department's recommendations...as was the case with the Duron Harmon pick?



    I think he was responsible for Thompkins. who knows who else he was responsible for recommending. They don't document that stuff anywhere.  Sure, ultimately - BB is responsible but the draft is all gambling, IMO.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Party Pooper!  I even invited you to play with us this season.



         No offense but, as I have told you previously, I really don't have an interest...unless I could team up with NE Game. Then, I'd be thrilled to join.

         LOL!!!  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

     So my advice to some of you would be this; be a fan! Enjoy the ride! Stop trying to be a General Manager when you ahve no idea exactly what it is BB is actually looking for in players.


    +----------------------------------------------------------

    Who cares what BB is actually looking for in players.  What matters is the outcome of his draft picks.  And recent outcomes have been poor, and most poor in areas where the team has needed the most help (defense).  

    If a doctor prescribes medicine that makes you more sick, ask no questions and keep popping those pills because you're not an MD?  

    Factor in things like the (irrational) selection of so many Rutgers players (why? Because the Rutgers coach let BB's son on the team?), like not taking the advice of scouts, like picking-up any Jets discard just to prove BB's superiority.  Then factor in - we only win because of the offense.  Brady.  What happens when Brady leaves. Think about how depleted this team is. But, no worries, enjoy the ride.

      

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to expertmike's comment:

     Who cares what BB is actually looking for in players.  What matters is the outcome of his draft picks.  And recent outcomes have been poor, and most poor in areas where the team has needed the most help (defense).  

    If a doctor prescribes medicine that makes you more sick, ask no questions and keep popping those pills because you're not an MD?  

    Factor in things like the (irrational) selection of so many Rutgers players (why? Because the Rutgers coach let BB's son on the team?), like not taking the advice of scouts, like picking-up any Jets discard just to prove BB's superiority.  Then factor in - we only win because of the offense.  Brady.  What happens when Brady leaves. Think about how depleted this team is. But, no worries, enjoy the ride.

     



         Amen, brother!

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: Homers and Haters

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to leonardo0110's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I have come to the conclusion that BB likes to challenge himself with less talented players to prove his genius. Why else? as great of a coach as he is, the football IQ, I can't imagine him being mediocre at identifying talent. The draft itself is a crap shoot, GM's across the league have drafted busts with top 10 picks, let alone second rounders. I like BB record on the first round though, there he has more hits than misses. He has work on getting his defense better, there's no doubt about it, it hasn't materialize yet, but it will. The lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball is not the only reason why they haven't won a SB since 2004. I've seen his top 5 offensive line get owned in the biggest games, I've seen the best QB in the league being less than average in the biggest games. They've had one of the greatest teams of all time post an 18-1 record, they had an amazing offense, a good defense, good specials team, and they still couldn't win the big game. What does that tell you? It's hard to win games in this league, It's hard to go to 5 SB and win them all.

    I'll still take BB as a gm/coach over any active gm or coach, I'll take Brady over any QB too.(homerish perhaps Laughing)

    It's all about execution, it's all about who wants it more, it's all about having some luck on your side too.

     

     


    " Don't Judge Me Untill You've Become Perfect "

     



    You have come to the conclusion that BB wants to throw caution to the wind to entertain himself with his ego?

     

    What on earth?

    There is a salary cap!  Our QB makes 17 million per year!  Look at the other teams who feature a QB who makes similar money.

    WHo has the best team?

    It's either us or GB. It's not Baltimore. Nope, not it isn't. It ain't New Orleans. Nope, no it ain't. ANd, it won't be Denver when it's all said and done with that flimsy looking depth chart out there past their offensive starters.

    The best GM of the cap era, the best who ever lived, the guy who created the best salary allocation formular is "medicore" and/or likes to entertain himself to show how great of a coach he is?

    Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry I forgot to mention I was being sarcastic, I laugh at the people here who complain about BB drafts, decision making, who he brings in FA, why he doesn't spend to the CAP...and all sorts of criticism. When the bottom line is the results year in and year out, people here wants the pats to reach the SB every year and win it too.

     

    It's so hard to win games, let alone become a dynasty.

     

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