Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]Wozzy I agree with u EXCEPT on Spikes going to the outside.  I just cant ever see that with his speed or lack there of. 
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    I have to agree with this as well.  I think Mayo on the outside and leaving Spikes in would be a better move.  Or Spikes and Mayo on the inside and Nickovitch and Hightower on the outside. 
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    There is going to be so many different player combinations they use during a game that it's going to baffle some teams and make it very difficult to game plan for the Patriots defense.  This is how the defense gets better.  A little more talent but a lot more options to use that talent.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]Wozzy I agree with u EXCEPT on Spikes going to the outside.  I just cant ever see that with his speed or lack there of. 
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    Spikes inline speed is better than either Jones or Bequette and comparable to Nincovich. Spikes shuttle times were some of the best at LB during the combine so he can hold the edge on the weak side, bring pressure and he also played outside at Florida. IMO Mayo's skill set is perfect for the play making position inside, he's a better cover and he's better tackling smaller faster guys in space.

    The good news, D line health provided of course, is that we'll see more true 3/4 from the beginning of the season. Early last season BB ran the 2/4/5 nickel by his own admission because he didn't have off season workouts or training camp and had a lot of new personnel who didn't know his scheme. (The real reason why our defense was porous) This season he'll have the benefit of a full camp. Rookie's had better get signed fast and into the playbook, we can project who will start on opening day by who signs the contract the soonest.


     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2pDvWahDoQ This makes me happy.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Bequette is a player.  I would expect him to have more sacks his rookie year than either Hightower or Jones.  Bequette could push Ninko for his job and he's used to coming off the edge and was more productive in terms of sacks in the SEC than either of the other two.  Hightower mostly played in the middle and didn't rush as frequently as Bequette did in college.  I think BB will line Hightower up all over the place so he should be asked to rush more.

    The only question is how many opportunities will Bequette get?  I think in terms of overall sacks, we will be about the same 2011 to 2012 because of the development time for the rookies, but our secondary should be a little better yielding more coverage sacks.  In 2-3 years, we will be much better.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    Here's how I see it:

    2009 - The worst of this new era for NE.
    2010 - Better, but still not a big leap.
    2011 - Better, but only really reliant on two people Carter and/or Anderson.

    2012 - Fanene and Trevor Scott in FA. Some stability with bodies in the secondary being added in Gregory and Will Allen (not a fan), AND Chandler Jones with Hightower and Bequette.

    Add in Dowling coming back and hopefully healthy this year, Sterling Moore in a smaller, but full time role in some nickel, and your're increasing experience and competition at your weak spots.

    Summary: Trending up and fast.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : listened to NFL radio today   Randy Cross , Gil Brandt, and Marvez?  said Jones could  ( I know.. could) be a JPP or Demarcus Ware. If 75% we are OK. PS. no offense, but I dont want to see you guys again  in February.
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    I am not very familiar with Jones since I don't really enjoy Big East football, but go look at Jones's vids on You Tube. The dude is very rangy, big up top and very athletic with brains.  I can't quite place who he reminds me of. He's bigger than JPP.

    He also appears taller than Ware. I can see the Aldon Smith connection, but he too appears larger up top than Smith.

    This may seem minor, but he broke off into the flat on a pass play and picked it off and then ran it back 30 yards before conceding the tacjle from behind, but he slid.  Heady play, minimizing risk of coughing up the ball from behind.

    Also, he made a play and stripped sacked an RB at the line of scrimmage in one motion.  Anyway, it bodes well for potential 3-4 OLB McGinest type stuff with him.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?


    I agree with Rusty on this one . . . on paper, at least, it looks like an improvement. The caveat we all have to make is you can't really tell until the guys get on the field.  

    One thing to add--looking at Tavon Wilson's film, one of the better things he seems to do is rush the passer from the safety position.  Not saying that's going to make or break our pass rush, but if our pass defenders improve (with Dowling back and maybe an improvement in Moore or Dennard or somewhere else), then safety and corner blitzes become more feasible too.  What I like best about the way the defense is evolving is that we seem to have more guys who are athletic, smart, and versatile . . . that allows for more varied defensive schemes, with fronts and roles morphing in unpredictable ways.  BB is great at producing a protean defense when given the right players, and I think that seems to be where we're headed.  I for one am going to be very excited to watch the defense next season. 


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]The pass rush is instantly better, the defense is instantly better. Defensive backfield: Consider the free agency pick up's first, Steve Gregory instantly becomes a starter at free safety moving McCourty back to corner where he belongs.  But Belichick doesn't just need one safety, he needs about three to replace everybody not named Chung on last year's defense. We're talking about a coach who loves to run nickel packages with three safeties on the field at once.  So he has his starter in Gregory and drafts two more with Wilson and Dennard, both rank among the best at FS/large CB in the draft. Chung is a beast. At corner McCourty is a stud, Ras Dowling who started his rookie season as the starter opposite DMC should progress health provided. Arrington is a solid technician who benefits the most by way of interceptions. If Will Allen remains healthy, he is a smooth cover guy who could surprise by making the team and providing deep bench play. Sterling Moore earned the right to compete this camp, maybe he isn't a one hit wonder at all, which means more depth and Marquice Cole was signed to provide camp competition as well. Defensive line: Fanene replaces Shaun Ellis but you also have Deadrick and Brace one full season removed from injury. Brace is in a make or break season, he needs to replace Gerrard Warren at tackle or be replaced himself. Love and Pryor are a year more experienced and Marcus Harrison is being given a shot at making the team. I'd like to see an impact signing here with a free agent but as it stands this is already a stronger unit with big Vince as the anchor. Linebackers: This is where we received a large shot of youth. Hightower is an instant starter inside at "sam" linebacker, which makes Mayo the "will" playmaker in the Bruschi mold. Spikes will get bumped outside with Nincovich to the outside linebacker position, either of them are versitile enough to swing back inside, Fletcher provides depth all the way across the linebacking core. The "elephant" outside linebacker position will be filled by Jones and Bequette. Truthfully I think Bequette is more NFL ready and may end up starting the opener. Jones is a little more of a project with a lot of upside, hopefully they both work out to plan because if they do, we'll have a tireless pass rush with two guys substantially bigger, younger and more athletic than either Andre Carter or Mark Anderson.  The older linebacker's will ease the rookies in and help them learn on the fly, our linebacking core just got upgraded substantially.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]
    Wozzy,

    Gregory is a former juicer and he was a SS in SD.  I don't think he's the answer at FS.  I think Dennard could be.

    This from the Bio page from the Charger's website. 

    Steve Gregory faced the most trying of his five NFL seasons in 2010. The team’s opening day starter at strong safety for the first time in his career, Gregory was off to a solid start when a violation of the NFL’s substance abuse policy sidelined him for four games in October. He returned to the field a month later and reassumed his role in the defensive backfield, but in his first game back Nov. 7 at Houston, a shoulder injury forced him to the sidelines once again. The injury kept Gregory off the field for the next three games, but he returned in time for the stretch run and finished the season on a positive note.

     
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : Wozzy, Gregory is a former juicer and he was a SS in SD.  I don't think he's the answer at FS.  I think Dennard could be. This from the Bio page from the Charger's website.  Steve Gregory faced the most trying of his five NFL seasons in 2010. The team’s opening day starter at strong safety for the first time in his career, Gregory was off to a solid start when a violation of the NFL’s substance abuse policy sidelined him for four games in October. He returned to the field a month later and reassumed his role in the defensive backfield, but in his first game back Nov. 7 at Houston, a shoulder injury forced him to the sidelines once again. The injury kept Gregory off the field for the next three games, but he returned in time for the stretch run and finished the season on a positive note.  
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Let's be honest, are we going to judge Gregory for juicing when 99% of the NFL are or have done steroids/HGH?  It's almost a job requirement in the NFL, drug testing in pro sports is a farce anyhow. 

    The only time players get busted for weed or roids is when they come out and say stupid stuff in the media, embarrass or say something critical of the league... see Ricky Williams for a great example.  

    I live on Miami Beach, I see football and basketball players doing drugs all the time. Jeremy Shockey smokes weed like a rasta but has never been busted? 

    Pro sports league's cherry pick bad apples to make examples of them, otherwise they turn a blind eye as to not ruin their product.

    None of us live like monks, so I try not to judge. 

    As for whether he plays strong safety or free safety it's just nitpicking. I'll settle with Chung at Strong Safety because he is bigger and plays really well in the box.  I also don't give too much credit for who starts or where, the NFL is all about match ups, Gregory will be in the right place in the passing game, that's more than we could say about Barret/Igdegbo/Sanders/Meriweather.  The guy hit's hard, puts his body on the line, that's enough for me...


     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : put it this way: Tuck JPP Osi etc...it ain't! 
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
    Nor were these three great in their first seasons, either.  Who ever said they can be compared to them now?  You, I guess!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    Quarterbacks really take 2 to 5 years to get great.  Offensive linemen take a year or two.  The heavy-duty running back and pass rusher positions are entirely different.  Nothing to learn, line up and run.

    Chandler Jones is a little raw, but he has 4 months.  The guy has something unique in the NFL -- incredible ball-tipping and jumping range.  Pierre-Paul of the Giants isn't even close, it's about 8 or 9 inches difference between Jones and Pierre-Paul.  You could do better by taking the net in back of the goalposts and putting it up at the line of scrimmage, but that's not legal.  Jones will be NFL-average in September, heading for the plus sign in October, and hopefully a terror by January.  Bequette is a go in September for his around-the-end missile move and for change-of-pace bull rushes.  I've seen more of Bequette as a rusher than I have of Hightower, although that's not fair to Hightower.  Hightower has plenty of quickness and can probably jump right in in September.

    I look at Bequette as an around-the-end pass rusher.  He'll get rotated in for these assignments and will make a splash.  Bequette has 25 pounds on Spikes and so he can bull-rush a lot better.  Spikes is quick and can plug holes as an inside linebacker.  Different jobs.

    The question is, on third and 20, why can't BB put all three on the field?  Raw chaos, some can drop into coverage sometimes, or they bring the bighouse.  It's the defensive equivalent of the two tight end formation.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : Wozzy, Gregory is a former juicer and he was a SS in SD.  I don't think he's the answer at FS.  I think Dennard could be. This from the Bio page from the Charger's website.  Steve Gregory faced the most trying of his five NFL seasons in 2010. The team’s opening day starter at strong safety for the first time in his career, Gregory was off to a solid start when a violation of the NFL’s substance abuse policy sidelined him for four games in October. He returned to the field a month later and reassumed his role in the defensive backfield, but in his first game back Nov. 7 at Houston, a shoulder injury forced him to the sidelines once again. The injury kept Gregory off the field for the next three games, but he returned in time for the stretch run and finished the season on a positive note.  
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]



    He was out of position in SD.  Plus, BB likes his Safeties to be able to play both roles seamlessly.

    Agree on Dennard.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    Considering Carter will be resigned and most of Anderson's sacks were garbage sacks, I am pretty sure NE will yet again get more sacks and field a better D than that feeble Jets D.

    Enjoy Bart Scott's contract, Revis's holdout, Shrimpy Arms Wilson unable to start still, Landry's Achilles and the loss of Jim Leonhard.  lmao

    I also love how WIlkerson was asked to play 3-4 DE last year and now NY thinks they'll be using a 4-3 to accomodate Coples.

    Hilarious and consistent with NY's knee jerk draft and philosophy and approach.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    Great to see 6'4 330 pound Gerrard Warren Come back. Exactly what we needed, another beast to sub in for VW. I think Deadrick gets more playing time this year as he is finally healthy going into the season. Better player in the middle but was forced to play for Ellis last year.

    Over all VW,Fanine,Love,Deadrick,Warren,Scott,Jones,and even Myron Pryor give us great depth on the D-line. A lot of beef to open things up guys like Bequette,Hightower,Nink and even mayo and Spikes to get after the QB.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]I guess you'll find out when the two rookies can't compensate for the 20 sacks from Anderson and Carter.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    You were probably on here before last season crowing about how Carter and Anderson wouldn't be able to help NE's pass rush.  Your little act is tired.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    You can't assume a whole lot from rookies but on paper and over the next FEW years these guys (Jones, Bequette and Hightower... and possibly also some blitzing from either of the two safeties or coverage sacks with Dennard coverage) this should be very significant. Mangione should stick to music. She knows nothing about football.

    We might yet retain Carter which would be significant.

    All in all there is every reason to be excited about the future both with TB and without. On paper the Pats are so far ahead of everyone else in the division and looking to be building a total team and the class of the NFL (though SF is looking pretty darn good too that way).

    I expect improvement in coverage and in run D and in pass rush.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : Oh is that what NY thinks, they'll be using a 4-3?  That sounds just like Rex.  he loves him some 4-3. Still whining about the Jets DB being way better than the patsies DBs?  When will that ever end?  Only you would brag about McCourty "starting" on the worst pass D in the NFL.   I'm not sure McCourty would even be able to make that team.  It's called depth, you moron.  And when a team's base D has three CBs - guess how many starting CBs you have?  Let me help you out.  THREE!  Revis/Cromartie/WILSON.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    Why would anyone whine about the loser Jets? The only thing they excel at is failure. Good CBs WOW! Too bad the rest of the team sucks.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    I'll feel better if Carter is re-signed and healthy.  They may have some long term answers thanks to the draft, but Carter in sub-packages, as a part time player or as a situational pass rusher would be good until the young guys prove they can do it. 

     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : Yes, better CBs, better pass D, better running game, better run defense, better pass rush, better kick & punt teams ... what's left? Right - worse passing game.  Isn't that the thing that you are always crying about?
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]


    Worse record last year too.  Which is really all that matters.  We'll see what happens next year, but over the past dozen years, the Pats have generally blown the Jets out of the water when it comes to winning seasons, playoff appearances, and Super Bowl victories.  

    Maybe this will be the Jets year though . . . we can talk again after it's over.  Until then, this is all a lot of meaningless blather meant apparently to rile things up.  Pretty pointless (and juvenile) if you ask me . . . 



     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : I wonder if the Giants would have preffered the better record at 13-3 instead of 9-7.  And I suppose that 14-2 was a preffered outcome with the one and done in 2010?  Sure was a great record.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]


    I thought we were talking about the Jets. But if we want to talk about the Giants, the Jets lost to them too . . . 

    Look, over the past decade or two, the Pats have been a much more productive team than the Jets.  Sure, every once in a while the Jets have a better year, but overall, the Pats are by far the more productive and consistently good team any way you measure it. The point isn't even arguable.  Maybe the Jets will come into their own in the future . . . but until they do, there really is nothing to talk about.  When they write the history of the NFL in the early part of this century, the Jets are just a footnote compared to teams like the Pats, the Steelers, the Packers, and the Saints.

    And of course the other New York team.  

     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]This is just for the 2012 season. 2013 and beyond, this pass rush will be more improved...but in 2012, is Hightower and Jones better than Carter and Anderson last season? I've been caught up in the euphoria as of late with these new players, but now Im starting to wonder how much better this pass rush is considering we lost our top two pass rushers from last season. I know Carter got hurt at the end of the season, but even when the two were together, the pass rush was questionable. How much can Fanene and Bequette add?
    Posted by dapats1281[/QUOTE]

         The better question is, "How much better is the defense"? The Pats must get something out of the trio of Wilson, Dennard, and Dowling in secondary, in order for there to be marked improvement.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In the end, NE had the better record than the Giants, and should have won the SB with the offense NE had. Untapped resources in the game included using a lead back with a run game established with BJGE and not ever using Ochocinco (1 catch, 20 yards).

    And yes, I'd rather go 13-3 and win the SB than 9-7 and win it.  Fact is, our better QB threw 1 INT and took a moronic Safety which hurt the team.

    Oh well. Try it again next year.  At least I've seen my team in and winning SBs in my life, however.

    Jets fans of the last few generations, have not. Jets won't be a footnote, either.  There is nothing to note other than a circus and a laughingstock franchise.
     
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    Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?

    In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Honest question, how much better is the pass rush? : Oh rusty, you switched it up again.  That is adorable.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    So now Evil/Glen R (at his work) is now me? I gotta tell ya, you, JintsFan and Babe are really stupid individuals.

    Once you get near a woman, please don't procreate.

    Thanks,

    US Taxpayers
     
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