How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    Since then hes 7-7 in playoffs with a 28 TD to 19 INTs

     

    Wow! I think the better teams have the book on how to beat Tom in a big game. We must change this somehow.  Tom sucks on the move.

     

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    From Bruschi's chat earlier.

    Ash (Toronto, Ont, Canada.)

    Hi Tedy, hope you and your family is well.This loss was tough to swallow but the better team did win. Pats simply did not play football for 60 mins. There were some clock management issues and then the inability to prevent Flacco from throwing (and connecting) the deep ball. Seems like our issues that we've been battling all year came back to bite us when we least wanted it to. If you could choose 3 player positions to address via draft what would they be? WR (playmaker regardless of Welker signing), CB (talented depth even if Talib signs), and SS?

    Tedy   (11:17 AM)

    Defensive back is one. Defensive back is two. Defensive back is three. It's unacceptable that this secondary hasn't had any type of stability in the last two years. The fact that Aqib Talib had to be acquired on Nov. 1 tells you all you need to know. The fact that Devin McCourty had switched from CB to S, and then back to CB and S again, tells you all you need to know. The fact that the Patriots drafted Ras-I Dowling with the 33rd overall pick, tells you all you need to know. Something has to be done.

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    But Troy Brown dropped less passes in his career than Welker does in a season...

     




    troy brown couldn't carry welker's jock

     

     



    Seems to me in SB 36 his catch was the biggest play on the winning drive. Caught the ball over the middle for 30 yards than got out of bounds. Welker had his chance to make the same type of play and dropped the Lombardi....

     



    bet brady's throw was better and besides how does one play-no matter how big-define one's greatness over a 5-10 year career?

     

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    You also need a QB who is not a pick machine....Credit Flacco hes 12 TD and 1 INT his last 2 years in playoffs, which is 4 games.

     




     

    Listen Troll! If you are not gonna paint the whole picture than you are just gonna look dumb! Is Flacco now the best in the Biz! lol. What a joke you have become. Its a shame you dont jackshhhhh about the game. Brady had a great defense from 01-03 and THATS why his numbers look good because he never had to force a throw. With those defenses he was only asked to MANAGE THE GAME! Its hard to throw pics when most your throws are WR screens and playaction. The guy NEVER lined up in shotgun on 1st down and aired it out. Flacco throughout his WHOLE career has benefited from the same type of Defense Brady had in the wonder years and its even better which allows his Offensive coordinator to call the simplest of gameplans. Run on 1st, Run on 2nd, and thrown on 3rd when its 3rd and 4! ITS EASY!!!  You have to have a defense with you Moron, now go root for the Ravens in the SB YOu ignorant D*ck Rider!!!

     



    In fairness, they didn't do that against the Pats. After trying to run with Ray Rice, they just put Flacco in shotgun and he ripped our D apart. He also made a big time throw to Pitta against DEN in tight coverage within his own endzone. Flacco has played really well this post season.

     



    You could not be more correct. Go look at the plays from the TD drives. Almost every snap was either no huddle, shotgun or both. They literally beat the Patriots at their own game.

    When the Patriots tried to hurry up on the Ravens the veteran players (Reed & Lewis) were able to call the defenses and coverages from the field which took away the usual advantages. When the Patriots tried to quick snap the Ravens (the play before the first FG) the entire defense was lined up and ready for it. Ngata actually blows up Connolly and pushes him into Ridley. Compare that to the week before, the Patriots run a quick snap on the goal and Vereen walks into the end zone with most of Texans defensive line not even in stances.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    Balanced offense where Brady liked the open person, execution and a good run game that wasn't abandoned in such a rushed fashion.

     




    u still here? thought u were banned again

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    Balanced offense where Brady liked the open person, execution and a good run game that wasn't abandoned in such a rushed fashion.

     



    Before Ridley's fumble, the pass-run ratio was 33-27. 

    Sorry boss.

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    It's funny how all the talk the last couple years is that O's win campionship now not D's and then you get a 49ers Ravens SB and everyone suddenly goes... well maybe the D has something to do with it. If you really look at it GB when they won had a great D in the playoffs, Giants last year had a great D in the playoffs. It's still about the D when it comes down to crunch time. Luckily I don't think we are that far off. A passing rushing threat to put next to Wilfork, Talib healthy all year or a suitable replacement man coverage CB (notice man not zone), and a quicker LB for pass coverage and I think this D has what it takes to make a giant leap forward

     



    I don't think people have been saying O's win championships the last couple of years. It's all about balance...but I would prefer a dominant D over a dominant offense.

     

    Look at the weapons of Kaepernick and Russel Wilson. Great defense and a good QB. Yeah, I know SEA was eliminated in the divisional round, but I really like the way that team is built. Nobody goes against the Seahawks saying they'll physically dominate them. And judging by Wilson's play, it looks like he has the ability to compete in shootouts with some very mediocre WRs.

     

     



    The Seahawks ran out of gas because you can't really sustain that kind of play over a full season.   SF is a much deeper, more talented D that has been sitting on top 10 picks for 8 years, so that's not all that surprising.

     

    You mention Seattle: The fact is our own offense went there and scored once in 6 tries in the red zone.

    Don't look now, but what did out own offense do in the game in the red zone?

    There's a reason why the best teams in the postseason have good offenses. SF's is balanced, Balt's is balanced.

    Not turn it over, spread it around, run it enough to keep the defense honest and that's how you win.

    Our offense is a finessse piece of crap when it comes to doing it in the postseason.   We have all these pink panty wearing fans in here raving about how great Brady is in October, yet he looks like Mark Sanchez now in January.

    2007 has completely altered how our own fans see Tom Brady. They think he needs All Pros at every position to boost his stats and when he fails, people try to look elsewhere or deflect.

    He was a better QB earlier in his career than he is now. He's been so spoiled by Welker's ability to get open quick or Gronk, that when he doesn't get it, his reptition with running through his progressions has become very weak.  

    It was going to take no turnovers and even just some drives with FGs to win that game from him and the second half offense was so awful just like last year's SB.



    No, Brady was spoiled by a talented defense early in his career.

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    It's funny how all the talk the last couple years is that O's win campionship now not D's and then you get a 49ers Ravens SB and everyone suddenly goes... well maybe the D has something to do with it. If you really look at it GB when they won had a great D in the playoffs, Giants last year had a great D in the playoffs. It's still about the D when it comes down to crunch time. Luckily I don't think we are that far off. A passing rushing threat to put next to Wilfork, Talib healthy all year or a suitable replacement man coverage CB (notice man not zone), and a quicker LB for pass coverage and I think this D has what it takes to make a giant leap forward

     



    I don't think people have been saying O's win championships the last couple of years. It's all about balance...but I would prefer a dominant D over a dominant offense.

     

    Look at the weapons of Kaepernick and Russel Wilson. Great defense and a good QB. Yeah, I know SEA was eliminated in the divisional round, but I really like the way that team is built. Nobody goes against the Seahawks saying they'll physically dominate them. And judging by Wilson's play, it looks like he has the ability to compete in shootouts with some very mediocre WRs.

     

     



    The Seahawks ran out of gas because you can't really sustain that kind of play over a full season.   SF is a much deeper, more talented D that has been sitting on top 10 picks for 8 years, so that's not all that surprising.

     

    You mention Seattle: The fact is our own offense went there and scored once in 6 tries in the red zone.

    Don't look now, but what did out own offense do in the game in the red zone?

    There's a reason why the best teams in the postseason have good offenses. SF's is balanced, Balt's is balanced.

    Not turn it over, spread it around, run it enough to keep the defense honest and that's how you win.

    Our offense is a finessse piece of crap when it comes to doing it in the postseason.   We have all these pink panty wearing fans in here raving about how great Brady is in October, yet he looks like Mark Sanchez now in January.

    2007 has completely altered how our own fans see Tom Brady. They think he needs All Pros at every position to boost his stats and when he fails, people try to look elsewhere or deflect.

    He was a better QB earlier in his career than he is now. He's been so spoiled by Welker's ability to get open quick or Gronk, that when he doesn't get it, his reptition with running through his progressions has become very weak.  

    It was going to take no turnovers and even just some drives with FGs to win that game from him and the second half offense was so awful just like last year's SB.



    How many top 10 picks are on that defense that were drafted by SF?

    Carlos Rodgers-FA

    Tarell Brown-5th round

    Dashon Goldson-4th round

    Donte Whitner-FA

    Ahmad Brooks- FA

    Patrick Willis- 11th overall pick

    Navorro Bowman- 3rd round

    Aldon Smith- 7th overall pick

    Justin Smith- FA

    Isaac Sopoaga -4th round

    Ray McDonald - 3rd round

    They have one guy that they drafted in the top 10. I believe you said something similar when talking about seattle's defense.

    Quit making stuff up!

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    It's funny how all the talk the last couple years is that O's win campionship now not D's and then you get a 49ers Ravens SB and everyone suddenly goes... well maybe the D has something to do with it. If you really look at it GB when they won had a great D in the playoffs, Giants last year had a great D in the playoffs. It's still about the D when it comes down to crunch time. Luckily I don't think we are that far off. A passing rushing threat to put next to Wilfork, Talib healthy all year or a suitable replacement man coverage CB (notice man not zone), and a quicker LB for pass coverage and I think this D has what it takes to make a giant leap forward

     



    I don't think people have been saying O's win championships the last couple of years. It's all about balance...but I would prefer a dominant D over a dominant offense.

     

    Look at the weapons of Kaepernick and Russel Wilson. Great defense and a good QB. Yeah, I know SEA was eliminated in the divisional round, but I really like the way that team is built. Nobody goes against the Seahawks saying they'll physically dominate them. And judging by Wilson's play, it looks like he has the ability to compete in shootouts with some very mediocre WRs.

     



    Oh balance will conquer all no matter what but a lot of people want to go heavier and heavier on O every year since 07' and to me the age old adage has never changed, O will get you to the dance but D will take home the prom queen. If people are looking to make WR as priority #1 I think that's a bad thing. A pass rushing DT and adding quality to the CB core should be priority #1 as it's been shown everytime a playoff caliber D will beat a playoff caliber O more times than not

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    You also need a QB who is not a pick machine....Credit Flacco hes 12 TD and 1 INT his last 2 years in playoffs, which is 4 games.

     




     

    Listen Troll! If you are not gonna paint the whole picture than you are just gonna look dumb! Is Flacco now the best in the Biz! lol. What a joke you have become. Its a shame you dont jackshhhhh about the game. Brady had a great defense from 01-03 and THATS why his numbers look good because he never had to force a throw. With those defenses he was only asked to MANAGE THE GAME! Its hard to throw pics when most your throws are WR screens and playaction. The guy NEVER lined up in shotgun on 1st down and aired it out. Flacco throughout his WHOLE career has benefited from the same type of Defense Brady had in the wonder years and its even better which allows his Offensive coordinator to call the simplest of gameplans. Run on 1st, Run on 2nd, and thrown on 3rd when its 3rd and 4! ITS EASY!!!  You have to have a defense with you Moron, now go root for the Ravens in the SB YOu ignorant D*ck Rider!!!

     




    NE's D was ranked 24th in 2001.  2002's was bad.   2003's was opportunistic, leading the NFL in turnovers created and it was also a veteran D at its core.

     

    This is the youngest D in the NFL, he makes 20 million per year and the cap is not larger than it was in 2009.

    Do the math.

    Up 13-7 at the half doesn't mean Brady can go off into la-la land for the 2nd half, giving the opponent more and more confidence.  This is what our offense does. They switch away from a traditional offense to try to score quick, which is the huge mistake by McDaniels and Brady.  Nothing needed to be changed up 13-7. Keep running it.  Keep using base formations. Nope.  More spread, more incompletes, and the more and more they ran that stuff, the odds went up he'd throw bad balls, make bad decisions and throw picks.

    Welker's drop on 3rd down was terrible and a huge gamechanger, but Brady's fire is waning badly at this point of his career. I have no idea why he thinks doing the same thing over and over again will somehow solve the root of the problem.

    I have no idea why all of a sudden an old and slow Ravens D that allows 35 points a week earlier becomes this major challenge for our offense that just put up 42 and could have had more on Houston if not for egregious officiating in favor of Houston.

    13 points at cutting it in this era, won't cut it in the SB, and it has NOTHING to do with our defense.

    Give Balt credit for 2 road wins, but shame on our offense for only scoring 13 points.




    BB has no blame in this for punting twice in opponents territory?? Our offense scored 36 a game by bieng agressive. So on top of facing the best defenses in postseason BB thinks its a good idea to get conservative in postseason and you somehow equate this to Bradys doing? He isnt the coach, he is a player. He gets instructions from the sideline as everyone else does. The only time he changes the call to a pass if when the Defense has all 8 defenders at the line waiting for run which they did a lot of. Branch should be inactive at this time. Wes is the little engine that could making great catches except the easiest ,most important catches. Lloyd dropped an easy 3rd down conversion and Hernandez was doubled most the game cuz Gronk was out. We actually lost trying to PLEASE YOU! We scored a grand total of 13 points using Ridley as a lead back when I thought they should have started the game with Vareen and killed them out the backfield. Boy that Brady has GOT to be a Better Coach in the postseason and we need to find something better for BB to do because he is getting paid alot(atleast 5mill/year) to just stand around on the sidelines and do nothing but  yell at the refs! H3ll I can do THAT!

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

     

    You also need a QB who is not a pick machine....Credit Flacco hes 12 TD and 1 INT his last 2 years in playoffs, which is 4 games.

     




     

    Listen Troll! If you are not gonna paint the whole picture than you are just gonna look dumb! Is Flacco now the best in the Biz! lol. What a joke you have become. Its a shame you dont jackshhhhh about the game. Brady had a great defense from 01-03 and THATS why his numbers look good because he never had to force a throw. With those defenses he was only asked to MANAGE THE GAME! Its hard to throw pics when most your throws are WR screens and playaction. The guy NEVER lined up in shotgun on 1st down and aired it out. Flacco throughout his WHOLE career has benefited from the same type of Defense Brady had in the wonder years and its even better which allows his Offensive coordinator to call the simplest of gameplans. Run on 1st, Run on 2nd, and thrown on 3rd when its 3rd and 4! ITS EASY!!!  You have to have a defense with you Moron, now go root for the Ravens in the SB YOu ignorant D*ck Rider!!!

     




    NE's D was ranked 24th in 2001.  2002's was bad.   2003's was opportunistic, leading the NFL in turnovers created and it was also a veteran D at its core.

     

    This is the youngest D in the NFL, he makes 20 million per year and the cap is not larger than it was in 2009.

    Do the math.

    Up 13-7 at the half doesn't mean Brady can go off into la-la land for the 2nd half, giving the opponent more and more confidence.  This is what our offense does. They switch away from a traditional offense to try to score quick, which is the huge mistake by McDaniels and Brady.  Nothing needed to be changed up 13-7. Keep running it.  Keep using base formations. Nope.  More spread, more incompletes, and the more and more they ran that stuff, the odds went up he'd throw bad balls, make bad decisions and throw picks.

    Welker's drop on 3rd down was terrible and a huge gamechanger, but Brady's fire is waning badly at this point of his career. I have no idea why he thinks doing the same thing over and over again will somehow solve the root of the problem.

    I have no idea why all of a sudden an old and slow Ravens D that allows 35 points a week earlier becomes this major challenge for our offense that just put up 42 and could have had more on Houston if not for egregious officiating in favor of Houston.

    13 points at cutting it in this era, won't cut it in the SB, and it has NOTHING to do with our defense.

    Give Balt credit for 2 road wins, but shame on our offense for only scoring 13 points.

     




     

    BB has no blame in this for punting twice in opponents territory?? Our offense scored 36 a game by bieng agressive. So on top of facing the best defenses in postseason BB thinks its a good idea to get conservative in postseason and you somehow equate this to Bradys doing? He isnt the coach, he is a player. He gets instructions from the sideline as everyone else does. The only time he changes the call to a pass if when the Defense has all 8 defenders at the line waiting for run which they did a lot of. Branch should be inactive at this time. Wes is the little engine that could making great catches except the easiest ,most important catches. Lloyd dropped an easy 3rd down conversion and Hernandez was doubled most the game cuz Gronk was out. We actually lost trying to PLEASE YOU! We scored a grand total of 13 points using Ridley as a lead back when I thought they should have started the game with Vareen and killed them out the backfield. Boy that Brady has GOT to be a Better Coach in the postseason and we need to find something better for BB to do because he is getting paid alot(atleast 5mill/year) to just stand around on the sidelines and do nothing but  yell at the refs! H3ll I can do THAT!

     



    We lost because Brady didn't suck?  Please stop.

     




    They lost because the whole team sucked!  Please stop!

    You look more and more foolish every time you open your mouth.

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     


    They lost because the whole team sucked!  Please stop!



    I never thought I'd agree with you Pezz, but that about sums it up.

    And this thread already exists:

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/oh-to-see-the-pats-with-a-wr-who-sprints-down-the-field-wide-open/100/6515561

     

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    It's funny how all the talk the last couple years is that O's win campionship now not D's and then you get a 49ers Ravens SB and everyone suddenly goes... well maybe the D has something to do with it. If you really look at it GB when they won had a great D in the playoffs, Giants last year had a great D in the playoffs. It's still about the D when it comes down to crunch time. Luckily I don't think we are that far off. A passing rushing threat to put next to Wilfork, Talib healthy all year or a suitable replacement man coverage CB (notice man not zone), and a quicker LB for pass coverage and I think this D has what it takes to make a giant leap forward

     



    I don't think people have been saying O's win championships the last couple of years. It's all about balance...but I would prefer a dominant D over a dominant offense.

     

    Look at the weapons of Kaepernick and Russel Wilson. Great defense and a good QB. Yeah, I know SEA was eliminated in the divisional round, but I really like the way that team is built. Nobody goes against the Seahawks saying they'll physically dominate them. And judging by Wilson's play, it looks like he has the ability to compete in shootouts with some very mediocre WRs.

     

     



    The Seahawks ran out of gas because you can't really sustain that kind of play over a full season.   SF is a much deeper, more talented D that has been sitting on top 10 picks for 8 years, so that's not all that surprising.

     

    You mention Seattle: The fact is our own offense went there and scored once in 6 tries in the red zone.

    Don't look now, but what did out own offense do in the game in the red zone?

    There's a reason why the best teams in the postseason have good offenses. SF's is balanced, Balt's is balanced.

    Not turn it over, spread it around, run it enough to keep the defense honest and that's how you win.

    Our offense is a finessse piece of crap when it comes to doing it in the postseason.   We have all these pink panty wearing fans in here raving about how great Brady is in October, yet he looks like Mark Sanchez now in January.

    2007 has completely altered how our own fans see Tom Brady. They think he needs All Pros at every position to boost his stats and when he fails, people try to look elsewhere or deflect.

    He was a better QB earlier in his career than he is now. He's been so spoiled by Welker's ability to get open quick or Gronk, that when he doesn't get it, his reptition with running through his progressions has become very weak.  

    It was going to take no turnovers and even just some drives with FGs to win that game from him and the second half offense was so awful just like last year's SB.

     



    How many top 10 picks are on that defense that were drafted by SF?

     

    Carlos Rodgers-FA

    Tarell Brown-5th round

    Dashon Goldson-4th round

    Donte Whitner-FA

    Ahmad Brooks- FA

    Patrick Willis- 11th overall pick

    Navorro Bowman- 3rd round

    Aldon Smith- 7th overall pick

    Justin Smith- FA

    Isaac Sopoaga -4th round

    Ray McDonald - 3rd round

    They have one guy that they drafted in the top 10. I believe you said something similar when talking about seattle's defense.

    Quit making stuff up!




     

    Wow, Rusty still up to his old tricks! He has a problem admitting that BB been drafting for 8 years looking for a CB and we are still looking!  He cant admit that Carroll and his Draft guy are on the same page and he rebuild their secondary in 2 years with ONE 1st round pick on E.Thomas. The rest are 3rd, 5th round and former CFL....lol  I remember when BB turned wrestlers into football players but those days are gone now....lol

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to Leonard15's comment:

    Since the talk about bringing a vertical WR has been going on for years I am just curious to know why the Pats were able to win 3 SB's without one on the roster but can no longer do it anymore hell they even had one in 2007 but still couldn't win the SB with Randy Moss!


    So is that a knock on the defense for not being up to 01/03/04 standards which covered up the stench for not having a vertical WR or did we win 3 SB's without a vertical WR being the exception to the norm.

    I think there is more to it than having a vertical WR as many teams have won SB's without one and done so with a high powered passing attack minus a vertical WR.



    Defense was great and the wide receivers they did have whilst not big names made key catches  in the clutch. Also running backs were better Smith and Corey Dillon produced in big moments. 

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    Rusty! San Fran has had a great defense for quite some time! There are only 2 things that happened recently that put them over the top! A real Coach and a real QB! 

    Now seeing as most people that know football put BB and Brady near the top or best at their respective careers, Do you care to make a stab at what THIS Team is missing to get over the Hump??? I'll give you a hint. Look at my first paragraph above! Its called a Great Defense!

    Game! Set! Match!  Crusty please leave now with your long winded BS about Brady being the weakest link!  LMAO!  Poor Chung cant even get on the field and Gregory couldnt cover a TE if you layed him on top of Beyonce!  lol  Get a Clue Buddy! Its 2013!

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    .....

    Oh balance will conquer all no matter what but a lot of people want to go heavier and heavier on O every year since 07' and to me the age old adage has never changed, O will get you to the dance but D will take home the prom queen. If people are looking to make WR as priority #1 I think that's a bad thing. A pass rushing DT and adding quality to the CB core should be priority #1 as it's been shown everytime a playoff caliber D will beat a playoff caliber O more times than not




    You and I are in alignment here. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to Leonard15's comment:

    Since the talk about bringing a vertical WR has been going on for years I am just curious to know why the Pats were able to win 3 SB's without one on the roster but can no longer do it anymore hell they even had one in 2007 but still couldn't win the SB with Randy Moss!


    So is that a knock on the defense for not being up to 01/03/04 standards which covered up the stench for not having a vertical WR or did we win 3 SB's without a vertical WR being the exception to the norm.

    I think there is more to it than having a vertical WR as many teams have won SB's without one and done so with a high powered passing attack minus a vertical WR.



    This is a fact and you can google it if you'd like. Every reciever we had back then (with the exception of Brown)...Givens, Patten, Branch, ran a faster 40 time than every single reciever we have now. Patten was a 4.4 guy...Branch was a 4.45 guy when young...Givens was a 4.5 guy (with size). We have no recievers on the roster that can seperate and run like that now. No one. Lloyd runs a 4.7....a 4.7!! Welker is a 4.6 guy and our tight ends are 4.6 guys. 

    Now you can say that none of these guys were true "vertical" threats, but I'd argue that they ALL in fact were capable of going (and getting deep).

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    In response to mthurl's comment:



    This is a fact and you can google it if you'd like. Every reciever we had back then (with the exception of Brown)...Givens, Patten, Branch, ran a faster 40 time than every single reciever we have now. Patten was a 4.4 guy...Branch was a 4.45 guy when young...Givens was a 4.5 guy (with size). We have no recievers on the roster that can seperate and run like that now. No one. Lloyd runs a 4.7....a 4.7!! Welker is a 4.6 guy and our tight ends are 4.6 guys. 

     

    Now you can say that none of these guys were true "vertical" threats, but I'd argue that they ALL in fact were capable of going (and getting deep).



    This.  No one is saying we need Randy Moss 2007 here or that we need to suddenly throw bombs on every play.  However it is a fact that all of our receivers other than Gronk are both short and do not regularly run routes deep down the field.  Good defenses that can cover all the horizontal routes have no respect for our vertical passing game and other than Gronk they are all too short for Brady to just "throw it up for grabs".

     
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    Re: How Did We Win 3 SB's Without A Vertical WR?

    Wes is quick but most people dont realize how slow he is. Dude has NEVER ran away from ANY defender. He ALWAYS gets caught from behind! I think Vince can beat him in a race and yet folks want to pay him like a # 1. I hope the last 2 postseason can make others see. You pay Wes, you will never win a ring. He cant do it! He is a reg. season fantasy guy that dissapears when its clutch time. Give me Larry all day! Remember HIM in the SB!???

     
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