HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ultpatfan. Show ultpatfan's posts

    HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    Yeah, I know I just posted about NE perhaps being a team of destiny...and maybe they are...but I've got little confidence in this secondary.  They give up too many yards on coverage.  Oftentimes Talib, Dennard, Arrington and McCourty are playing too far off the receivers and don't help get enough 3 and outs...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    Huh? 

    I consider this secondary about the only thing going for this defense (outside of Nink and Jones). 

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from m. a. pat. Show m. a. pat's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?



    No consistent pass rush = too many passing yards. It doesn't help either that most of the backs are dinged up.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Huh? 

    I consider this secondary about the only thing going for this defense (outside of Nink and Jones). 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. Injuries have gutted the other aspects.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    Pray.....alot

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    One way only:  outscore the opposition.  Like vs. Denver, dare them to run the ball, hope for a QB mistake, try to hold them to FGs, and plain old out score them.  Harder without Gronk, but maybe they'll be a bit more motivated as we have a chance at the number one seed.  This has been the strangest year.  Nearly every game is close, miracle comebacks, you name it, we've seen it.  We could easily have 3 or 4 more losses.  Sometimes about the best you can do is live with the "warts" as best you can, and march on.  Heck, I think we could lose to Miami and Baltimore - but this has been such a weird year, who the heck knows what's gonna happen - just sit back and enjoy the ride.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    I would counter that with Talib, McCourty, Dennard, Logan Ryan, Gregory and Arrington we have one of the best secondaries in the NFL.  But with injuries to Wilfork and Kelly we have the worst defensive tackle corps in the league.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    It was great pass D vs PM but not not against the Browns
    It looked like horrible run D against the Broncs and ok run D agaisnt Car, Brwns ( really only cams run on a scramble and a reverse vs the browns

    it varies game to game - I think BB picks his poison against the run or pass knowing he cannot stop both.

    The db's , DEs and LBs get us thru. We now have a possibility with our DTs -

    We focus too much on yards and not on points I think

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    The secondary has done pretty well considering the lack of pass rush. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    The secondary is now the strength of the defense... who woulda thunk...

    I think Ryan has done a pretty nice job for a rookie corner but all in all not bad. I think Harmon filled in adequately for Gregory nothing spectacular but he didn't look overwhelmed either.

    Plea goes out to BB and the  defensive coaches... PLEASE keep Arrington on the inside...PLEASE

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    This secondary is exactly what BB wants. They tackle, cover and create turnovers. They have size, strength and depth. Talib is a very, very good #1 and Dennard is a very good #2. Arrington in the slot is a very good tackler, and has very good hands to create turnovers. Ryan is coming strong for depth and dependability. McCourty is playing at a pro bowl level. I prefer a more physical S than Gregory pairs with McCourty, but Gregory is out performing my expectations. I am not yet sold on Harmon and I don't understand wht Wilson hasn't had at least a chance. 

    Agree with Wozzy, with better DT play, this backfield also improves....

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Huh? 

    I consider this secondary about the only thing going for this defense (outside of Nink and Jones). 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bingo. I am more concerned with our lack of pass rush than our secondary. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    we just need dennard and talib to get healthier

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to CHAMPSXLVIII's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we just need dennard and talib to get healthier

    [/QUOTE]

    When they are on the field together it is great.

     

    Add to this: I put most of the issues against the Browns on the coaches. I think Norv put a great game plan together. But then, not everyone has an uncoverable WR like Gordon to pull out of their arsenal. He is too much. Like Randy Moss and Megatron wrapped into one. 

    Still, most of the receptions were underneath, and BB never really had an answer for it. If there were more time on the clock the Browns could have pulled it out. 

    Most teams aren't driven that way. Talib can man up and eliminate most WRs NE is going to see in the playoffs, and NE will look much more like they did against Denver when they stymied an all-star group.

    I'm more worried about what happens when NE plays teams like KC and Seattle, who can run effectively AND have QBs who can extend plays and buy time for their WRs to come open. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fidd. Show Fidd's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to ultpatfan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, I know I just posted about NE perhaps being a team of destiny...and maybe they are...but I've got little confidence in this secondary.  They give up too many yards on coverage.  Oftentimes Talib, Dennard, Arrington and McCourty are playing too far off the receivers and don't help get enough 3 and outs...

    [/QUOTE]


    The 3 & outs have a lot more to do with the lack of pass rush everyone else has mentioned. Teams have no problem putting 2 guys on Jones. Who needs to work on his hands during the off season. Nink, as solid against the run as he is and for all the vesatility he brings. Just isn't a guy who can get consistent pressure.

    Our DT's are easily the biggest problem with our D. Their being completely blown off the ball. I mean these guys are just being tossed around. They just can't control their gaps. Again though their 2nd and 3rd string guys who were suppose to be used in different sub packages and part of a rotation that was headlined by a HOF'r in 'Fork and a top 10-12'ish DT in Kelly.

    Bc of the problems above and injuries to their own group our backers have been asked to play out of position, cover way too much ground and take on too much responsibility.

    The secondary, mainly the CB's have also been hit by injuries. Talib is obviously not the same guy. You can see it in the way he moves. The guy just doesnt trust himself right now. He's usually a guy that plays a smooth, physical game. Theres no fluidity in his game at all right now. Dennard has also had his own problems with injuries. When healthy this secondary is an elite unit in the league. Their deep, physical, aggressive and can tackle. Bc of the injuries they've suffered their also playing out of position.

    I'm proud of this team. No team has been dealt the injuries we have. We've lost some of the best players in the league and some of the leaders from our team. This team is relying on a lot of young players and is sitting at 10-3. I'm more than happy with that.

    In todays NFL there is no great team. Everyone is beatable.

    Denver has it's own issues with their secondary. Chris Harris is the only guy playing ball in that unit.

    Seattle has major oline problems. Wilson has been pressured more than any QB in the last 2 years.

    Cinci's secondary without Hall is extremely suspect and beatable. They also have a QB who can throw them out of any game at any time.

    One could go on and on. People keep talking about the Pats as if their the only team with holes. Look at the team we play on Sunday. Their own oline has been better as of late but still a group that can give a game. They've struggled in pass pro and run blocking all year. They spent tons of $ on backers but have had worse results than the guys they were suppose to replace.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    Great post Fidd!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    How do we win with this secondary?

    How have we done so far?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fidd. Show Fidd's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great post Fidd!

    [/QUOTE]


    Thank you sir.

     

     

    I think people need to watch more football. Even if you cant get the package. Theres online, red zone, nfl network replays a few each week. Its a great way to learn, scout opponents and see that other teams are human as well. This team has its deficiences, sure. This is also a team that has mental toughness, can take a punch and give one and capable of making some adjustments and coming back under any circumstance.

    BB is loving this, deep down. All the talk about the guys that arn't playing. All the talk about how they cant do this or that. He loves this challenge. Him and Brady are showing what a true leader is. I wouldn't want anyone else on the sidelines or under center.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would counter that with Talib, McCourty, Dennard, Logan Ryan, Gregory and Arrington we have one of the best secondaries in the NFL.  But with injuries to Wilfork and Kelly we have the worst defensive tackle corps in the league.

    [/QUOTE]


    Wozzy, spot on.  Injuries have gutted the middle of our D so we have problems with the run, play action and get little up the middle pressure on the QBs.  They get a lot of time to find open receivers, imo.  If we had Vince, Kelly and Mayo I believe we would have a top 10 D and the DBs would be the best part of that!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcherbrook. Show Fletcherbrook's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Huh? 

    I consider this secondary about the only thing going for this defense (outside of Nink and Jones). 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. Injuries have gutted the other aspects.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree as well. Not much to grade above average in this defense right now. Closest is the secondary.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: HOW DO WE WIN WITH THIS SECONDARY?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This secondary is exactly what BB wants. They tackle, cover and create turnovers. They have size, strength and depth. Talib is a very, very good #1 and Dennard is a very good #2. Arrington in the slot is a very good tackler, and has very good hands to create turnovers. Ryan is coming strong for depth and dependability. McCourty is playing at a pro bowl level. I prefer a more physical S than Gregory pairs with McCourty, but Gregory is out performing my expectations. I am not yet sold on Harmon and I don't understand wht Wilson hasn't had at least a chance. 

    Agree with Wozzy, with better DT play, this backfield also improves....

    [/QUOTE]


    Pre-injury I would agree but post injury he hasn't looked like he has at the beginning of the season and has ben very inconsistent. At times I think Ryan has out played him. I think the hip is still bothering him and limiting him moving forward until he gets surgery. Without Talib at 100% and the lack of push up the middle the secondary is hurting. Basically McCourty has been the only consistent player at this point but Dennard is a very solid #2 and Ryan has surpassed Arrington who should only see the field on money downs.

    I agree with Wozzy too. Jones is a #4 type sub rushing DT not a starter and Vellano might not be on the team next year. The DT position has been hurting ever since teams figured out the rooks. 31st ranked run D and the amount of time QB's have to pass, not to mention how QB's just step up into the pocket away from C Jones and Nink speak to that.

     
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