How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    I just saw on Sportscenter that Gholston was drafted #6 overall three years ago and is yet to sack an opposing QB.

    I know many of you have mentioned him when ridiculing the Jets. My question is, was there anything there to indicate Gholston would be a bust? I'd love to hear from the draft guys on this board who've actually followed the draft in detail. I just started keeping up with the draft last year.

    I'm interested in knowing if there were any red flags the Jets either deliberately overlooked or whether it was just a case of poor management.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dblock33644. Show dblock33644's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    In Response to How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?:
    [QUOTE]I just saw on Sportscenter that Gholston was drafted #6 overall three years ago and is yet to sack an opposing QB. I know many of you have mentioned him when ridiculing the Jets. My question is, was there anything there to indicate Gholston would be a bust? I'd love to hear from the draft guys on this board who've actually followed the draft in detail. I just started keeping up with the draft last year. I'm interested in knowing if there were any red flags the Jets either deliberately overlooked or whether it was just a case of poor management.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QU

    He didnt play all that well at Ohio State he was another Mike Mamula justa combine workout warrior.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfantiltheend. Show patsfantiltheend's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    He wasnt an amazing college player, but he performed amazing at the combine. He put up ridiculous numbers there and thus, inflating his value. 
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Simple. You don't draft a player because of the size of his arms, or how many times he can rep 225 pounds on the press. Sure it's impressive and strength is a huge aspect of being a linebacker, but people were brainwashed by this man's freakish body instead of realizing that converting him from a Defensive End in College to being an outside linebacker in a 3-4 system would be difficult for him.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    I think one thing that Belichick looks for is how much they love football and how smart they are. Watson didnt work out that well but I blame some of that on injury. Chad Jackson in his interviews didn't sound very smart IMHO and look how he worked out. I think your love of football means a lot in NE.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    It's simple look at his final year in college. 14 sacks but only 37 tackles total. These numbers don't make sense until you watch video. He had a couple of great games when he wasn't blocked but he was easily taken out of the game when you put a strong OL to watch him. Any college player who relies on just their speed or strength to succeed won't make it to the next level.

    One reason I don't want Moch. He reminds me of Gholston on a lot of levels
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ROWDYRODRUST. Show ROWDYRODRUST's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    BB sent smoke signals like he was interested in Gholston and Jest fell for it hook, line and sinker!!!

    The way you avoid it happening to you is not be such a sad franchise that hasn't won in over 40 years and reduced to choosing who you THINK the winners want.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeDerrWEDAT. Show WeDerrWEDAT's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Target the players you want to draft by how they played in college.  Use combine numbers to affirm your targeted players but never pick a player entirely by combine numbers.  I think this strategy would help.  The only sure fire way to avoid this is to trade out of the first round every year.  then it would be imposible...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    In Response to Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?:
    Ap, great post. I don't really follow the draft all that much but I do wonder why some kids who look like they have all the skill wash out. I think it's brains. Some kids get it and some just survive on raw talent with no brain and they're the ones who wash. Did you know he had a $9,000,000.00 upside to his contract if he could record one sack....or one forced fumble........or one fumble recovery? Not one of each, any one of the three. Sad
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Brains yes but also maturity and work ethic. They overlap some. Some of these kids come out of college with seriously over inflated egos. Then they get handed a pile of money. If they have a good agent and family support to guide them they can learn how to handle themselves. The ones that don't usually screw up.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Thanks guys. Very insightful.

    I'll definitely be keeping an eye on these things this year for sure. This year's draft is heavy with DEs and LBs and I'm interested in seeing who pans and who doesn't. I've read your posts here and seen the pro's and con's for almost every DE/LB out there.

    I'm also keeping an eye on Julio Jones because he had perhaps the most impressive combine this year --- and with a broken foot, mind you!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    In Response to Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?:
    Ap, great post. I don't really follow the draft all that much but I do wonder why some kids who look like they have all the skill wash out. I think it's brains. Some kids get it and some just survive on raw talent with no brain and they're the ones who wash. Did you know he had a $9,000,000.00 upside to his contract if he could record one sack....or one forced fumble........or one fumble recovery? Not one of each, any one of the three. Sad
    Posted by Sam-Adams


    Holy sh!t. That is sad. I could see the guy not living up to his hype but it's hard to imagine him being that bad.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rochfan. Show rochfan's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Don't pick a guy just to keep another team from getting him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Rowdy and rochfan hit on one of the keys as they apply particularly to Gholston. If your remember that year, there was an incredible buzz around New England about Gholston, and there was some disappointment, as well, when New Jersey plucked him away . . .   especially after the Pats traded down for another guy who wasn't believed to be on the radar.

    There are two lessons to take from this:

    1. The combine is all well and good if you're setting up some kind of Superstars or World's Strongest Man competition, but if you want to judge football players, you have to watch them play football. I read somewhere -- I can't remember if it was on this site -- that the standing broad jump (for example) is a good test of who will be able to survive the leap over an eight-foot crevasse full of molten lava in a post-apocalyptic world.

    and . . .

    2. You can't believe anything you hear this time of year.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brendon-Patrick. Show Brendon-Patrick's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    You try not to draft one.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Good post by Lazarus.  Hits on the head the struggle to find that player for the Pats.  3-4 OLB is a very hard position to analyze because you're generally watching this guy play DE in college and trying to see if his skills can translate to LB in the pros.  It's a lot like trying to draft a QB playing in a spread offense.  You can see glimpses as to the kid being a good player, but there is a lot of guesswork  going on.  When you draft a RB, WR, OL, DT, CB, ILB, or S you can watch the film in college and see the strengths and weaknesses and have a firmer grasp on what you are getting - a much safer pick.

    Agree with what most of you are saying about the combine.  Heard that one management/scouting guy say that the most important part of the combine was the medical.  Looking to augment what you see on film is what you're doing there.  For instance some of the CB's just had to prove they were fast and they did.  Julio Jones helped his case because he ran faster than they thought he would.  He was already a very good player.  Some guys it can definitely hurt.  I unfortunately think that Herzlich was hurt by his 40 time.  Poor performance in some of these drills aren't dealbreakers but they are red flags, a lot of times about lack of athleticism.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pwu. Show pwu's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    simple. dont draft stupid, arrogant, lazy workout warriors.


     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    In Response to Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?:
    In Response to How do you prevent drafting a Gholston? : Have you read these books? http://www.patriotsbook.com/ Book reviews of Management Secrets Vol. 1 "Lavin makes a strong... case that the Patriots 'are a better organization than they are a team.'" (Richard Sandomir, New York Times , Jan. 22, 2005) "Whether you're a New England fan or not, you'll be fascinated by [this] intriguing new book." (John McClain, Houston Chronicle , Jan. 30, 2005) "Lavin has melded together fascinating quotes, statistics, and revelations that keep the reader entranced throughout the 350-page tome. A wonderful opportunity to [meet] the players, characters, and team... Lavin's remarkable story provides the recipe for championship stew." (Christopher Young, Boston Phoenix , Jan. 31, 2005) "[San Diego Chargers general manager] A.J. Smith just finished re-reading Management Secrets of the New England Patriots, volumes one and two." ( Providence Journal , Jan. 9, 2007) "Fascinating." (Dave Perkins, Toronto Star , Feb. 5, 2005) "An impressive look at what drives the team's success... It doesn't read like some wonkish, academic text." (Greg Gatlin, Boston Herald , Feb. 6, 2005) "Timely, insightful book." (Peter Finney, Times-Picayune [New Orleans], Jan. 28, 2005) "Required Reading... If the Colts, Steelers and any other NFL organization would like to get a jump on the Patriots, they should definitely pick up a copy." (Dan Pires and Steve DeCosta, Standard-Times [New Bedford, MA], Feb. 5, 2005) "A great book. Having read and enjoyed other football-as-a-metaphor-for-life books such as The Packer Way by Ron Wolf, Winning the NFL Way by Bob LaMonte... and Think Like A Champion by Mike Shanahan, I can say that Management Secrets of the New England Patriots is as comprehensive and well-written a book as you can find on this subject. ...It was his intention to merge his studies of high-performance organizations and his obsession with his favorite team. This he has done most admirably." (Doug Farrar, Yahoo! Sports , Dec. 31, 2005) "Intriguing and exhaustingly researched, Management Secrets of the New England Patriots succeeds at going beyond the headlines into the inner workings of the Kraft/Belichick aura. ...Much more than a look at the Patriots business acumen. Liberally infused with recollections from players, staff and opponents, Secrets will score in resounding fashion with fans of the three-time champions." (Ken Castro, Patriots Insider , Mar. 24, 2005) "Fascinating read... Gives you a real insight into what goes on in making this franchise what they are. ...I really recommend it." (Ed Berliner, Comcast TV's Sports Pulse , Feb. 28, 2005) "It's a fascinating read, and I'm sure every general manager and owner in the National Football League has rushed out to get it." (Jack Arute, Sirius Satellite Radio's NFL Rewind , May 8, 2005) "Must Read... If the word 'management' in the title scares you or makes you think 'academic,' please take another look... Did you know that Rod Rutledge mocked the Rams seconds before Adam Vinatieri's winning Super Bowl kick (a possible reason for his being cut)? Or that Tom Brady helped comfort Maura Weis, when Charlie's surgery went awry? Or that Coach Belichick once spent a night with DEA agents as they went on a buy-and-bust drug run? There are many interesting stories and quotes to illustrate the points in the book. ...It's informative and full of many chuckles and laughs. ...A great read." (Stan Jaksina, PatsFans.com , May 30,2005) "A stunning compendium on the Patriot Way." (Bob George, PatsFans.com , June 12, 2005) "This book is the Rosetta Stone for anyone who is wondering how the Patriots are actually doing what they are doing--building a dynasty in an era where that was supposed to be impossible--and he explains the hows and whys about as well as could be explained." (Jack Thornton, PatriotsPlanet.net , 16 May 2005) "I developed a 'New England Patriots Model of Leadership, Teamwork, and Success,' based on your first book and presented it to the marching band staff when we started our season. I asked all the students to rate our organization on how close we come to representing the model, and the results were revealing. To make a long story short, the Clemson band is having an excellent season so far and is performing at a high level week after week. I owe a lot of our early success to setting the tone for the season with the Patriots." (Dr. Paul Buyer, Director of Percussion, Clemson University) I think after you read these, NE's formula is pretty clear and they really haven't strayed from it much. It's also easy to see why they don't hit a major snag as they manage personnel. This is why you won't see a Gholston type pick if NE picked in the top 10.  Sure, Maroney at 22 is BB's worst 1st rd pick, but even Maroney was a starter on a team that went to a SB. Big disappointment, but not a bust. NE has never drafted a 1st rd bust since BB started here.   If you avoid the risk positions in Round 1 (QB, WR, RB, OLB) and stick to the lines and DBs, you can usually hit fine. Traditionally, this is pretty much what NE does (avoids the sexy pick, especially in the top 15).
    Posted by BBReigns


    WOW! Thanks. I've never watched the game in-depth but now I really want to so in the past month or so, I read Kirwan's "Take Your Eye Off the Ball" and Jaworski's "The Games that Changed the Game." I've already learned so much by just reading those two.

    I'll check this stuff out too. Thanks a lot bro.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: How do you prevent drafting a Gholston?

    Sounds a lot more like psychology than Xs and Os doesn't it. The draft will always be a partial roll of the dice. You conduct interviews to try to guess how a kid will handle the pressure of pro ball vs college but there will always be some guessing.

    This is probably why BB seems to like kids who have good grades in real courses   ( as opposed to the phony cakewalk classes some colleges set up for athletes ) as well as good football stats. He figures if the kid can excel at football and get a high GPA in engineering then he's got to be a dedicated hard worker who can handle pressure.
     
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