How good as GM is BB?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    How good as GM is BB?

    Let's see what the numbers say. Speak with your vote. This is about him as GM, not coach. I voted average.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    do you have a crush on BB or something?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    Great if not one of the top two best. Compared to what the rest of the NFL does (stupid spending) and how he mocks the entire league with his draft trades year after year. 

    Its two days into free agency. Moss and Welker weren't the day FA opened. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How good a GM is BB?

    If it had been a choice, I probably would have voted "above average." Great seems a little strong given some of the busts we've ended up with in some drafts and some of the free agent choices that haven't panned out, but I do think he's still better than most GMs.  One thing we tend to overlook is that the Pats have earned consistently low picks during Belichick's tenure (because of their consistently good seasons) and have also lost a few first-round picks because of spygate and acquiring Belichick from the Jets.  That means Belichick has been operating with probably the worst set of draft picks over 12 years of any GM in the league.  To evaluate him fairly, I think you have to take that weak hand in the draft into consideration, and when you do that, his results seem a lot better than they do if you just compare him straight up to other GMs who were working with better draft picks.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good a GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good a GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]If it had been a choice, I probably would have voted "above average." Great seems a little strong given some of the busts we've ended up with in some drafts and some of the free agent choices that haven't panned out, but I do think he's still better than most GMs.  One thing we tend to overlook is that the Pats have earned consistently low picks during Belichick's tenure (because of their consistently good seasons) and have also lost a few first-round picks because of spygate and acquiring Belichick from the Jets.  That means Belichick has been operating with probably the worst set of draft picks over 12 years of any GM in the league.  To evaluate him fairly, I think you have to take that weak hand in the draft into consideration, and when you do that, his results seem a lot better than they do if you just compare him straight up to other GMs who were working with better draft picks.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    It is noteworthy that before the rookie wage scale picking in the top 3rd was not that great of an advantage because of costs ounce the cap era started. So it is not quite the feat by BB you are making it out to be. From here on, the high draft picks will be much more of an advantage than they have been in the cap era until now.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]do you have a crush on BB or something?
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]


    No, but some do.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]Let's see what the numbers say. Speak with your vote. This is about him as GM, not coach. I voted average.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Babe i've been back and forth on this issue for a couple of years, ultimately i don't like the timedness of his drafting but then again it's been working. Rusty will confirm i had it out with him on the issue last year. The question you should answer in order to answer your own question is.......why did the New England Patriots appear in superbowl 42?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to How good as GM is BB? : Babe i've been back and forth on this issue for a couple of years, ultimately i don't like the timedness of his drafting but then again it's been working. Rusty will confirm i had it out with him on the issue last year. The question you should answer in order to answer your own question is.......why did the New England Patriots appear in superbowl 42?
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]


    How many SBs do you think BB would have even sniffed without Tom Brady? He sure as hell never sniffed one when Brady wasn't running the show for him. The man is 1 for 7 in playoff shows without his lucky star much less even seeing a SB.

    SB 42? We got lucky Moss wanted to play with a great QB and we still had remnants of the largely predecessor built D remaining.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: How good a GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good a GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How good a GM is BB? : It is noteworthy that before the rookie wage scale picking in the top 3rd was not that great of an advantage because of costs ounce the cap era started. So it is not quite the feat by BB you are making it out to be. From here on, the high draft picks will be much more of an advantage than they have been in the cap era until now.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, but if you look back at past drafts, it becomes clear that there is a much higher chance of getting an impact player in the top half of the first round than anywhere else. While there are plenty of busts even at the top, a lot of those top 10 or 15 players do in fact end up in the pro bowl or at least as long-career starters. The success rate is much, much lower as you go down in the draft. There's a fall off toward the bottom of the first round and an awful lot of busts in the second and third rounds.

    So not having those high first-round picks puts a team at a disadvantage if it's trying to acquire the kind of impact players that opposing teams are going to have to game plan against.  Without the high picks, you're stuck hoping to get lucky lower in the draft, paying for high priced veteran free agents, or trading away most of your picks to bet the house on one or two high picks. It's true, the high picks came with very high costs in the past, but those costs had to be weighed against the negatives of not being able to pick up any true impact players without paying big amounts in free agency. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB? : How many SBs do you think BB would have even sniffed without Tom Brady? He sure as hell never sniffed one when Brady wasn't running the show for him. The man is 1 for 7 in playoff shows without his lucky star much less even seeing a SB. SB 42? We got lucky Moss wanted to play with a great QB and we still had remnants of the largely predecessor built D remaining.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Sorry man complete idiot i meant superbowl 46. It's all BBs doing and while i agree Brady is largely resposible he still only plays one position, the most important position of all but not one that appears on D. I'm a massive Brady fan more so even than i am a BB fan but that doesn't mean BB is an average GM. My argument in the past was that BB made it to 3 superbowls with a D that had been handed to him by Parcells. This year however BB did with a D that was massively better than the sum of it's parts on the back end in particular. Say what you will about the regular season stats but who cares about those anymore. I hate to say it but Brady was frankly awful in the Baltimore game (the dive aside, what a legend!) and they still got to the superbowl. From the Saints game in 09 to the superbowl in 11 is a crazy turn around and it falls squarely on the shoulders of BB. The offense has been great throughout that span and it hasn't been the same offense at all...other than welker. The D took some real work we cried for a pass rush when what we thought was a horrible secondary at the time was solidified in 10 but then it turns to mush again in 11 and he goes and finds the parts to take us to a superbowl pass rush and secondary together. How can you doubt him really?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB? : Sorry man complete idiot i meant superbowl 46. It's all BBs doing and while i agree Brady is largely resposible he still only plays one position, the most important position of all but not one that appears on D. I'm a massive Brady fan more so even than i am a BB fan but that doesn't mean BB is an average GM. My argument in the past was that BB made it to 3 superbowls with a D that had been handed to him by Parcells. This year however BB did with a D that was massively better than the sum of it's parts on the back end in particular. Say what you will about the regular season stats but who cares about those anymore. I hate to say it but Brady was frankly awful in the Baltimore game (the dive aside, what a legend!) and they still got to the superbowl. From the Saints game in 09 to the superbowl in 11 is a crazy turn around and it falls squarely on the shoulders of BB. The offense has been great throughout that span and it hasn't been the same offense at all...other than welker. The D took some real work we cried for a pass rush when what we thought was a horrible secondary at the time was solidified in 10 but then it turns to mush again in 11 and he goes and finds the parts to take us to a superbowl pass rush and secondary together. How can you doubt him really?
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]

    Not an idiot for just typing in the wrong year. They call that a mistake. We have plenty of idiots around here. Doing that doesn't make you one of them.

    Brady did have a stinker against Baltimore, but cut him a little slack, they did have a 68 defensive passer rating. Tough D.

    BB has thrown a ton of resources at the D in recent years. He basically has drafted 90% of a whole D in the 4 years from 2007-2010 with high draft picks and he really doesn't have a lot to show for that.

    His scramble this year to patch things with cast-offs and street scrubs was far more a success due to his coaching skills than his GM skills. Give him a player and he will most often get more out of him than the other guy. He really brought in a bunch of guys all over the place on D and just worked them until he got something better than what he had to start. But the D is still a big problem.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    None better. F-ing Hall of Fame GM. You are what your record says you are. His record as GM is unparalleled. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonola. Show nonola's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    We've had the Q before. BB is both really good(free agency) and really bad (drafting). Before you all jump and scream Gronk, his overall drafting has been below average. The man is a genius at stocking picks for the future and using them to stock up again ( it'll happen again this year) what he cannot seem to do is come up with a gem or two every year that cannot avoid injury and not only play well but improve year to year. If he could manage to improve his drafting only 20% and maintain the FA signings of a Waters, Carter and Anderson like in 2011 then he would be the best.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    Looks like the votes are in. It's about 60/40 great/not great. 64/36 actually.

    It's about as I expected based on the general delusion level of the average fan. But I will say, 4 years ago this poll would have been 95/5. When I first started preaching this gospel people wanted to lynch me. BB's rep as a team builder has taken a devastating and well deserved blow as more persons see the light.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    Above average to good. But there really aren't any "great" GMs in total Babe. 

    Sorry, I've been watching football too long to see that. Some people have "great runs" as GMs. But no matter who it comes down too, if they stay in long enough, they hit a nadir in their career. 

    BB is certainly good. He has kept the team in contention for so long. Yes, the last half decade that final piece has eluded him. But then, that is still pretty good, all told. 

    I guess the proposition would be  ... who has done markedly better? Who is a step above? The list would be short, if at all. 
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB? : any championships lately? if he's that great and mocks the rest of the nfl...
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

    No, but name on franchise that wins divisions or goes to SBs while rebuilding.

    You can't do it. It doesn't exist. You need to learn about trends in the NFL and just which GMs are doing what. Bill Polian is some supposed 5 time GM of the year and has 1 SB ring to show for it.

    You tell me.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB? : oh I never said BB was a bad GM or hasn't done a great job in the cap era (as you call it) finding players, filling holes, etc...i was just responding to ur alter ego's assessment. If you are gonna make such statements ("mocks" the rest of he nfl...) then you should not have won your last ring 8 yrs ago wih basically the same core roster at key positions and nothing since
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]


    Team's don't "rebuild" while they have the elite QB. They "rebuild" after they're gone. See - Colts, right now.

    What they do is "replenish". But queenie doesn't even get that.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]Above average to good. But there really aren't any "great" GMs in total Babe.  Sorry, I've been watching football too long to see that. Some people have "great runs" as GMs. But no matter who it comes down too, if they stay in long enough, they hit a nadir in their career.  BB is certainly good. He has kept the team in contention for so long. Yes, the last half decade that final piece has eluded him. But then, that is still pretty good, all told.  I guess the proposition would be  ... who has done markedly better? Who is a step above? The list would be short, if at all. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't strenuously argue between "good" and "average". It's really the over the top types who claim "GREATEST GM EVER!!!" that get me riled. The demise of the D just doesn't support that.

    I see GM as a sort of bell curve. There are few who reside on either end of the curve.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    One note of interest on this might be... BB is not constantly struggling to find a great QB and expending huge draft resources on that as others must. It has been a very nice luxury he has had which allows him to address other needs for a decade now and never worry about it. That, is a big deal. But he will be worrying about that soon enough.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    Can you be serious that BB is not a great coach and GM? What is BB's history with and without Brady?

    BB won 2 SB's without Brady when he was the DC of the Giants.
    He won 11 games with Cassel, a guy who hadn't played since High School.
    He had seriously turned around the Browns before being let go because their owner was so short sighted.

    Brady is the best QB of all time, but a QB alone can't bring a team to the SB. Ask Manning, Marino, etc... SOME of it has to be that he has enough talent around him to win. And BB has a lot to do with who that is.

    Every GM strikes out sometimes, but finding players like Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Wilfork, Mankins, etc... finding players to fleece from other teams like Vrabel, Moss, Welker, Harrison, etc... I think this pretty much shows him as a great GM.



     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    In Response to Re: How good as GM is BB?:
    [QUOTE]Can you be serious that BB is not a great coach and GM? What is BB's history with and without Brady? BB won 2 SB's without Brady when he was the DC of the Giants. He won 11 games with Cassel, a guy who hadn't played since High School. He had seriously turned around the Browns before being let go because their owner was so short sighted. Brady is the best QB of all time, but a QB alone can't bring a team to the SB. Ask Manning, Marino, etc... SOME of it has to be that he has enough talent around him to win. And BB has a lot to do with who that is. Every GM strikes out sometimes, but finding players like Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Wilfork, Mankins, etc... finding players to fleece from other teams like Vrabel, Moss, Welker, Harrison, etc... I think this pretty much shows him as a great GM.
    Posted by timesedge[/QUOTE]

    He's a forkin' phenomenal GM. He's phenomenally GM'd our way to the worst rated D in our history. Bravo.

    There's just so many wrong things you've said here I don't know where to start. So I won't. Thanks for your vote.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from EASON11. Show EASON11's posts

    Re: How good as GM is BB?

    He would be the first to tell you that you have hits and miss's in this business........He has missed some and got some great picks and transactions  done. With that said, I would say 5 Super Bowls in 11 seasons needs no more discussion................and when he does finally hang em up........we wont know exactly how good he is ..................till he is gone...........
     

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