How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 9:39 AM EST
- EnochRoot
- Posts: 4050
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- Last: 4/13/2013
IT seems there is a lot of positive voices for the return of McDaniels, but I am wondering just how good he is.
Yes, he was OC for the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL. The team he OC'ed for went 18-0 and lost in the Super Bowl. So, petal to the metal offense won a lot of games. I get that.
But - and I know this was predicated on the personnel he had as well - his game calling fundamentally changed the offense of the Pats. They went seemingly from an offense content with banging their way down the field using a mix of runs and short passes (which were essentially runs), controlling ball possession and clock on the way to a win of 7 points or less to a 5-spread offense intent on stretching the field and scoring in 2 plays. This isn't a complaint. This is just how I see the changes in the offense.
So, the big thing that sticks in my mind as to how good McDaniels is is the lack of halftime adjustments made in the SB where they did not come out in the second half and and go with the short passing game for quick yards, but instead kept trying 5-7 step drops with Brady on a bad ankle getting pressured up the middle and unable to do anything. Yes, they did eventually go to the short game somewhere around the 4th quarter, but that was a bit too late, IMO.
With that in mind, just how good is McDaniels?
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:00 AM EST
- PatsEng
- Posts: 9335
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Well you do really have to look at the personal that year.
Their RB's:
Evans, Faulk, Morris, Maroney
Their TE's:
Brady, Mills, Watson
Lets face it he didn't have much to work with other then Welker and Moss. When you have such a one sided O it's hard to switch up what was working all year.
I think a better judge of his abilities is 08' when Brady went down. Cassel couldn't reproduce the same ability Brady provides so McDaniels needed to game plan around Cassel. Considering they won 11 games that year and the O still functioned above average I would say that McDaniels has the ability to switch up plans and work around obstacles. I would love to see what he can do with even more weapons at RB and TE
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:07 AM EST
In Response to
How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
So, the big thing that sticks in my mind as to how good McDaniels is is the lack of halftime adjustments made in the SB Posted by EnochRoot
This is where I lost faith in him. A Charlie Wiess would have figured it out.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:08 AM EST
- EnochRoot
- Posts: 4050
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In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
Well you do really have to look at the personal that year. Their RB's: Evans, Faulk, Morris, Maroney Their TE's: Brady, Mills, Watson Lets face it he didn't have much to work with other then Welker and Moss. When you have such a one sided O it's hard to switch up what was working all year. I think a better judge of his abilities is 08' when Brady went down. Cassel couldn't reproduce the same ability Brady provides so McDaniels needed to game plan around Cassel. Considering they won 11 games that year and the O still functioned above average I would say that McDaniels has the ability to switch up plans and work around obstacles. I would love to see what he can do with even more weapons at RB and TE
Posted by PatsEng
Good points, but Maroney was actually decent that year - especially in the playoffs - 244 yards and 2 tds in before the SB. And, they did a lot more with less in the preceding years.
2008 is a great point. Adjustments for Cassel is something I hadn't considered. To counter it though, were those in-game adjustments or part of the weekly game plan. I would think they were part of the game plan.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:09 AM EST
- darwk
- Posts: 1681
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Based on their coaching time with Pats and players
On a scale of 1 to 10 I rate:
O'Brien -5.
McDaniels-- 8
I think McDaniels is the more creative with his play calls. I believe TB is the co-offense coach, and of course BB will have ultimate control.
For comparison purposes- Charlie Weiss was a 10 during his tenure with the Pats.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:11 AM EST
- EnochRoot
- Posts: 4050
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In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
Based on their coaching time with Pats and players On a scale of 1 to 10 I rate: O'Brien -5. McDaniels-- 8 I think McDaniels is the more creative with his play calls. I believe TB is the co-offense coach, and of course BB will have ultimate control. For comparison purposes- Charlie Weiss was a 10 during his tenure with the Pats.
Posted by darwk
Man, Charlie went to 11.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:15 AM EST
- darwk
- Posts: 1681
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"Man, Charlie went to 11."
Yes, Charlie set the bar high.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:19 AM EST
- PatsEng
- Posts: 9335
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In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
In Response to Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels? : Good points, but Maroney was actually decent that year - especially in the playoffs - 244 yards and 2 tds in before the SB. And, they did a lot more with less in the preceding years. 2008 is a great point. Adjustments for Cassel is something I hadn't considered. To counter it though, were those in-game adjustments or part of the weekly game plan. I would think they were part of the game plan.
Posted by EnochRoot
Yes Maroney was good but that was mainly because people were focusing on Moss and Welker (notice Moss had a terrible post-season). With the Giants however, their front 4 was so dominating not only were they able to get pressure on Brady rushing only 4 but they also could slow Maroney and prevent long gains on the ground.
With 08' I remember a number of games that they went into the half being down or being up by less then a score. You can't win games that close without some type of adjustments during the game. Some examples that year were the Jets first game, Rams, and Sea. In all cases they were either losing or within 1 score going into the half and still pulled away with the W. In the second Jets game they were down 13-24 coming out of the half and he made enough adjustments to tie the game up before losing in OT.
Actually I think 08' showed McDaniels can make ingame adjustments and imo it was 08' not 07' that got him his head coaching job
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:28 AM EST
- shenanigan
- Posts: 4798
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He vertainly wasnt perfect, let's not forget he was not a coordinator very long. Charlie Weiss didn't win every playoff game or SB. He had years to get better. I don't have a problem with Obrien or Mcdaniels I think both need some experience, but right now I think Mcdaniels would be the smart move over retraining another new OC and letting him learn on the job.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:30 AM EST
- MichFan
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Just let Brady call the plays.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:31 AM EST
- EnochRoot
- Posts: 4050
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- Last: 4/13/2013
In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
He vertainly wasnt perfect, let's not forget he was not a coordinator very long. Charlie Weiss didn't win every playoff game or SB. He had years to get better. I don't have a problem with Obrien or Mcdaniels I think both need some experience, but right now I think Mcdaniels would be the smart move over retraining another new OC and letting him learn on the job.
Posted by shenanigan
I hate to be the "actually" guy, but I think the Pats did win every playoff game, including SBs, they were in with Weis as OC. He became OC in 2000. He did OC for the Jets for 3 years prior though.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:42 AM EST
- shenanigan
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In response to "Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?":
In Response to Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels? : I hate to be the "actually" guy, but I think the Pats did win every playoff game, including SBs, they were in with Weis as OC. He became OC in 2000. He did OC for the Jets for 3 years prior though.
Posted by EnochRoot
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking he was the OC in 96 but he was the WR coach. Still his first 4 years as an OC he missed the playoffs 3 times, and lost in the playoffs once. My point is just that I think Mcdaniels has made mistakes but given his experience level I think he did well. A good coach learns from his mistakes so I think he could be a better OC than when he left.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 10:44 AM EST
- EnochRoot
- Posts: 4050
- First: 6/10/2008
- Last: 4/13/2013
In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
In response to "Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?": Yeah, you're right. I was thinking he was the OC in 96 but he was the WR coach. Still his first 4 years as an OC he missed the playoffs 3 times, and lost in the playoffs once. My point is just that I think Mcdaniels has made mistakes but given his experience level I think he did well. A good coach learns from his mistakes so I think he could be a better OC than when he left.
Posted by shenanigan
Yeah, but he was OC for the Jets.
Under Parcells.
That guy never won anything. Oh, wait.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 11:11 AM EST
- threejak
- Posts: 410
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Look at it this way.....
If the Pats organization didn't think that McDaniels was of value,
they wouldn't be talking to him within 24-hrs. of OB announcing
his pending move to P.S..
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 11:26 AM EST
ESPN just announced it is all but a done deal that he returns, and is an assistant coach for the playoffs.
As with all ESPN exclusives, I'd advise takimg this with a grain of salt.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 12:01 PM EST
- PATinPA
- Posts: 78
- First: 2/2/2011
- Last: 7/26/2012
Profootballtalk just verified it also.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 12:24 PM EST
- hulk
- Posts: 83
- First: 10/10/2005
- Last: 8/22/2012
Getting McDaniels now, will also be a big bonus during the offseason. After we win the Super Bowl, Mcdaniels will be able to work with BB and company setting up next season as well as the draft. Again, thats after we win the Super Bowl
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 12:54 PM EST
- TrueChamp
- Posts: 5014
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In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
He vertainly wasnt perfect, let's not forget he was not a coordinator very long. Charlie Weiss didn't win every playoff game or SB. He had years to get better. I don't have a problem with Obrien or Mcdaniels I think both need some experience, but right now I think Mcdaniels would be the smart move over retraining another new OC and letting him learn on the job.
Posted by shenanigan
Not sure if you meant his entire career but actually Weiss did in fact win every playoff game or SB during his time he was the O.C of N.E. We never lost with Weiss, ever.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 12:55 PM EST
- TrueChamp
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Sorry Shenanigan, I didn't read the rest of the thread..
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 1:34 PM EST
- EnochRoot
- Posts: 4050
- First: 6/10/2008
- Last: 4/13/2013
In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
Look at it this way..... If the Pats organization didn't think that McDaniels was of value, they wouldn't be talking to him within 24-hrs. of OB announcing his pending move to P.S..
Posted by threejak
That really isn't the question.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 1:36 PM EST
- e4smith
- Posts: 299
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The two years he had full control of the offense were the best two years of Brady's career:
06' -- Best quarterbacking I've ever seen (Brady and McD takes Caldwell and Gaffney to the brink of another superbowl only to be sent packing by a defensive collapse, a PI the league had to later apologize for, and a dropped TD pass).
07' -- Best statistical offensive year in history.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 7:38 PM EST
- Davedsone
- Posts: 4361
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Hey, if you are Patriots fans, then you aren't reliving old moments. This can help NOW. NOW. Only OC we can get who can step right in and do something useful in a time when our guy may be having his head elsewhere.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 8:29 PM EST
- noahsark99
- Posts: 67
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In Response to
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?:
Hey, if you are Patriots fans, then you aren't reliving old moments. This can help NOW. NOW. Only OC we can get who can step right in and do something useful in a time when our guy may be having his head elsewhere.
Posted by Davedsone
I agree it's ALL about the playoffs. Wait and see the new looks BB, TB & JM squeeze into the coming game plans. Want to see creative?
Gronk & Hernandez and Welker on the prowl (all three will need to be double teamed). Then watch: Ridley & Woodhead will re-define the mix of power running with screenplays to handle any BIG-D Blitzing scheme they can throw at us.
Brady will execute like never before.
It's time for Tom's Fourth Ring! And he wants it more than any other!
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 8:44 PM EST
- tcal2-
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The 07 Super Bowl loss was on the Defense. I'll take JMac over O'Blivious any day.
Re: How Good Is/Was McDaniels?
posted at 1/7/2012 8:56 PM EST
- ccnsd
- Posts: 1956
- First: 12/1/2009
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Comparing Weiss to McDaniels is not fair at all. While Weiss was coordinating the offense Romeo Crennel was coordinating the defense. The offense has improved overral since Weiss left while the defense has clearly struggled since Romeo left. Looking back at the 2007 Patriots in hindsight it is shocking how good they were considering the tight end always had trouble catching the ball and that Maroney was the primary running back.
