How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to jam757's comment:
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    Of course he deserves a three year 30+ million dollar deal. They guy is tough as nails and one of the team leaders. Pats fans have continued to take him for granted year after year. The decision to pay Hernandez FAT money isn't looking like a great one now. He hasn't consistently styed o the field. Sure there's still time to turn that around but this guy needs to stay healthy for 16 games and put up 1000 plus yards to justify that contract. Welker is not "easily" replaceable and Pats fans should realize that. You think this offense struggles at times now wait until he's gone and check back. Also, for all the bitchin' about Brady and the offense we are puting up 33.2 ppg!!

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    did the Pats pay the right guy is a different question.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to anonymis' comment:
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    Offensively, I think they would survive w/o Welker. I'd rather the Patriots spend money on improving the secondary, pass rush, or OL (especially w/ run blocking and protecting the QB).

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    A "fair" deal with Wes will allow the Pats to do all of that. 

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    wes and his agents idea of a fair deal, unless it changes, wont

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    to put things also in a different perspective, Wes is NEVER double covered...he also doesnt have Drew Stanton, Kevin Kolb, John Skelton and Jim Corgi throwing the ball his way.

    I stand by my comment above. The Pats have correctly read the market for Wes, and he does not get an offer from any team higher than what the Pats offer

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    Wes is never double covered??  What?? 

    Also, in 2006 WW got open and caught 67.68% of his targets when he played for the Dolphins who finished 6-10 and had Daunte Culpepper throwing to him.  Still 67.68% is better then most of the top receivers ever had.  I tell ya, it's mind blowing, there is no way to argue it, Wes Welker gets open and catches his targeted passes.  Plain and simple, numbers do not lie!!

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    Wes lined up wide is NEVER double covered. Wes lined up in the slot 50% of the time is covered by a line backer.

    Right or wrong, not for me to say, but no team plans for the Pats around Wes. No team goes into a game saying if Wes is stopped, the Pats can be beat (maybe they should)

    Numbers dont lie, but can be manipulated any which way. How many of Wes' catches this year have been of the screen variety either behind the line of scrimage, or 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Pats arent targeting Wes regularly down field. 

     

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    i am not totally sure of this , but I think you are correct about WW not being double covered , but I think in Jets games Post Randy that Revis covered WW . I think that is game planning! Possibly in other games also, but other teams shut down guys dont get the pub of Revis but they may have been assigned him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to bredbru's comment:
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    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to anonymis' comment:
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    Offensively, I think they would survive w/o Welker. I'd rather the Patriots spend money on improving the secondary, pass rush, or OL (especially w/ run blocking and protecting the QB).

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    A "fair" deal with Wes will allow the Pats to do all of that. 

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    wes and his agents idea of a fair deal, unless it changes, wont

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    it will because at that point Pats will franchise him again for 1/$11 and that will allow room for other moves..

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    Who doesn't like WW? But he did have another couple of dropped passes on Sunday, one which probably would have been a td. Yeah, it'll be interesting how the Pat's front office handles negotiations next year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to LittleTimmy31's comment:
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    Who doesn't like WW? But he did have another couple of dropped passes on Sunday, one which probably would have been a td. Yeah, it'll be interesting how the Pat's front office handles negotiations next year.

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    Timmy, thats the point. It will not be interesting. The Pats have drawn a line in the sand, and are saying we do not believe any team in the NFL will offer Wes more than this.

    Wes and his agent will put some feelers out to weigh interest. If the Pats are correct, Wes will sign. If Wes does not sign, the Pats will franchise him.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    TFB: Wes is a hell of a player and probably the best ever at what he does, but to pretend he is the best WR in the league is blind homerism.  I am not one of the people on this board that believes that Wes is simply a product of the system, but to pretend the system plays no role in the numbers he puts up is incorrect imo.  Not only is our entire offense based around the short to intermediate passing game, but Brady is probably the best QB ever on passes under 25 yards.  Wes is a critical component of our offense, but comparing him to other elite WRs on one metric that favors Wes because of how we use him and the offense we run is disingenuous imo (Hernandez and Gronk are great players too, but there is a reason they also have higher catch percentages than most of the players you are comparing Wes to).  There are no other receivers like Wes.  Cruz might play a lot in the slot, but that is a lazy comparison.  Have you watched the G Men run their offense?  It is a heck of a lot more vertical than the Pats offense and Cruz runs a ton of deep routes.  The Pats FO has presumed (correctly imo) that Wes is a lot more valuable on the Pats than he is on any other team and they are using this leverage in their negotiations with him.  I think rkarp is correct in this regard.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    TFB: Wes is a hell of a player and probably the best ever at what he does, but to pretend he is the best WR in the league is blind homerism.  I am not one of the people on this board that believes that Wes is simply a product of the system, but to pretend the system plays no role in the numbers he puts up is incorrect imo.  Not only is our entire offense based around the short to intermediate passing game, but Brady is probably the best QB ever on passes under 25 yards.  Wes is a critical component of our offense, but comparing him to other elite WRs on one metric that favors Wes because of how we use him and the offense we run is disingenuous imo (Hernandez and Gronk are great players too, but there is a reason they also have higher catch percentages than most of the players you are comparing Wes to).  There are no other receivers like Wes.  Cruz might play a lot in the slot, but that is a lazy comparison.  Have you watched the G Men run their offense?  It is a heck of a lot more vertical than the Pats offense and Cruz runs a ton of deep routes.  The Pats FO has presumed (correctly imo) that Wes is a lot more valuable on the Pats than he is on any other team and they are using this leverage in their negotiations with him.  I think rkarp is correct in this regard.

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    It is not a matter of me being correct or someone else incorrect. It is also not simply my opinion. I am simply stating how the Pats feel on the topic, and why they feel that way.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    TFB: Wes is a hell of a player and probably the best ever at what he does, but to pretend he is the best WR in the league is blind homerism.  I am not one of the people on this board that believes that Wes is simply a product of the system, but to pretend the system plays no role in the numbers he puts up is incorrect imo.  Not only is our entire offense based around the short to intermediate passing game, but Brady is probably the best QB ever on passes under 25 yards.  Wes is a critical component of our offense, but comparing him to other elite WRs on one metric that favors Wes because of how we use him and the offense we run is disingenuous imo (Hernandez and Gronk are great players too, but there is a reason they also have higher catch percentages than most of the players you are comparing Wes to).  There are no other receivers like Wes.  Cruz might play a lot in the slot, but that is a lazy comparison.  Have you watched the G Men run their offense?  It is a heck of a lot more vertical than the Pats offense and Cruz runs a ton of deep routes.  The Pats FO has presumed (correctly imo) that Wes is a lot more valuable on the Pats than he is on any other team and they are using this leverage in their negotiations with him.  I think rkarp is correct in this regard.

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    Did you not read my entire post?  I clearly state.... Sure these receivers don't have TFB throwing to them and they don't have the same offense the Patriots have but what this shows to me is Wes Welker finds ways to get open and get the ball.

    Did I say he is the best WR in the league?  No, I did say Wes Welker finds ways to get open and make the reception when he is targeted.  He does so better then the so called top receivers in the league.  And my point is it would be foolish to not sign WW next year and for a couple more years, imo.  Show me another receiver who has these reception per target percentages with TFB and/or the Pats under this system.  Its a combination of Brady, the offense and Wes Welker, why mess it up.  Sign WW to a multi year contract.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Did I say he is the best WR in the league?  No, I did say Wes Welker finds ways to get open and make the reception when he is targeted.  He does so better then the so called top receivers in the league.  And my point is it would be foolish to not sign WW next year and for a couple more years, imo.  Show me another receiver who has these reception per target percentages with TFB and/or the Pats under this system.  Its a combination of Brady, the offense and Wes Welker, why mess it up.  Sign WW to a multi year contract.

     

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    You also said "No doubt about it, Welker should be considered the top receiver of the league.  These numbers are freaking amazing. Laughable compared to the top 2 receivers of the league and extra laughable to the 'New Best Slot Receiver'."

    Now maybe this was a bit in jest, but the point is you made a big deal out of comparing this one stat from Wes to other top receivers and made a big deal out of how much better Wes was.  There was some implications there that I was touching on. 

    I (like you) would like to see Wes retire a Patriot, but I think the Pats FO is correct in their assessment and that they have the leverage here.  Now perhaps they have overplayed their hand and they end up having to franchise Wes and pay him more than what they want, but I don't think he is gone unless some team offers him an outrageous contract (which I don't think they will) and even then I think they will franchise Wes again if they have to.

    It is also worth noting that with a lot of money coming off the books AND Gronk and Hern's deals being done that it's possible Wes' contract demands become a bit more feasible this offseason.  As I said previously I think the Pats FO has the leverage and they should use it because the risk of failure is very low and worst case scenario they just franchise him again and then the following offseason when they have to sign him or let him walk the salary cap goes up a lot.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How important is Wes Welker and why he should stay a Patriot well beyond this season

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
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    In response to TFB12's comment:
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    Did I say he is the best WR in the league?  No, I did say Wes Welker finds ways to get open and make the reception when he is targeted.  He does so better then the so called top receivers in the league.  And my point is it would be foolish to not sign WW next year and for a couple more years, imo.  Show me another receiver who has these reception per target percentages with TFB and/or the Pats under this system.  Its a combination of Brady, the offense and Wes Welker, why mess it up.  Sign WW to a multi year contract.

     

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    You also said "No doubt about it, Welker should be considered the top receiver of the league.  These numbers are freaking amazing. Laughable compared to the top 2 receivers of the league and extra laughable to the 'New Best Slot Receiver'."

    Now maybe this was a bit in jest, but the point is you made a big deal out of comparing this one stat from Wes to other top receivers and made a big deal out of how much better Wes was.  There was some implications there that I was touching on. 

    I (like you) would like to see Wes retire a Patriot, but I think the Pats FO is correct in their assessment and that they have the leverage here.  Now perhaps they have overplayed their hand and they end up having to franchise Wes and pay him more than what they want, but I don't think he is gone unless some team offers him an outrageous contract (which I don't think they will) and even then I think they will franchise Wes again if they have to.

    It is also worth noting that with a lot of money coming off the books AND Gronk and Hern's deals being done that it's possible Wes' contract demands become a bit more feasible this offseason.  As I said previously I think the Pats FO has the leverage and they should use it because the risk of failure is very low and worst case scenario they just franchise him again and then the following offseason when they have to sign him or let him walk the salary cap goes up a lot.

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    I think the other factor hurting Wes is the Pats missing on this years free agency signings and the cost uncertainty to address the defense.

    For instance, if Gregory came in and played solid field general, and Wilson came in and showed tremendous athleticism along with his rookie mistakes, perhaps the Pats would not feel the urgency on the defensive side. But those 2 players did not live up to billing (yet)...If Fanene worked out, the interior DL would not need depth addressed.

    IN addition, if Talib does come in and play lights out, that perhaps forces the Pats hand to sign him to a high dollar/short year deal.  

    Also lets not forget Revis will be sitting out there and will cost nothing other than $$$. And the Jets dont have any $$$.

     

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