How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]It was solid game from Sanchez, but the INT was brutal, the fumble was bad, he was almost picked late in the 4th again and he still misses what should be easy passes! Not debatable.  He only hits on certain passes.  Do people even watch these games? They scored their 1st td with 22 second left in the 1st half.  The fact is, he really wasn't better than Romo. He wasn't. Romo just choked up the game at the end again. This proves that when you look at the mid tier or worse QBs in this league, Sanchez isn't capable if being better than those QBs. He may be somewhere in the discussion, but then you start to look at his TD/INT ratio, compl% and rating and he's 20-25 range. Let's face it, if Romo doesn't fumble, the punt block doesn't occur or the weak INT at the end does not happen, everyone is looking at Sanchez wondering why he didn't take advantage of an awful secondary. Dallas lost their top 3 CBS!  This is like us starting Molden and a Safety! Dude, if you are glowing over that performance on that secondary, you have some serious issues. I'd be concerned knowing that even a team like Jacksonville, with a good D, will cause my QB problems next week. Buffalo is no slouch. Miami is no slouch on D.  They have good CBs and good or solid front 7s. Here are the top 10 QBs in the league right now for argument sake: Brady Rodgers Brees Rivers Roethlisberger Matt Ryan Matt Schaub Cassel Josh Freeman Flacco Cutler Eli Manning Romo Agree, generally? I mean, FLacco was a 25 TD and 10 INT guy last year.  He plays in a smaller market, so he gets less credit than a Sanchez type. And then, you have a bunch of young QBs who look quite good when you compare them to Sanchez: Fitzpatrick Bradford McCoy Stafford etc So, you have QBs who show more than what Sanchez shows and they are as good or better in WORSE circumstances (less of a run game, worse O Line, etc). Look at Ryan Fitzpatrick yesterday.  That's another example.  I thought he was good last year and just needed a better O Line and another weapon to work with and look his progression.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I agree with that.  He wasn't better than Romo.  There you are, like everyone else, saying that if Dallas had played mistake free football they would have won.  Welcome to reality, buddy.  No one plays mistake free football.  And like everyone else, you want to extrapolate what may have happened if Dallas didn't make mistakes, but leave the Jets mistakes intact?  And here's another thing... who in their right mind would have thought that Romo was going to beat up on the Jets secondary.  So, should you take away a TD and 100 yards because that should not have happened?
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Did you all watch the same game I did? Sanchez threw for 300 plus yards and 2 TDs and completed about 60% of his passes.  If the knock on the guy is that he is not accurate, then he throws for 60% or that he throws a lot of picks, then he doesn't at what point do you reassess your opinion of the guy?  The guy had a pretty good game with heavy pressure and no running game.  Eventually, you have to open up your eyes and judge people on what they do, not what they used to do or should have done.  Like Romo, Sanchez mad some key throws in that game.
    Posted by HaverhillBob[/QUOTE]

    60% comp was good 10-20 years ago but now a days even the bottom 50% of QB's in the game throw at least 60% on a regular basis. Sanchez had a great night for him and still couldn't break 60% (though he was close). You can't look at his yrds and TD's and go by that alone. It isn't fantasy football. The Jets barely ran the ball (less then 30%) which for them is something they never do. Of course Sanchez is going to toss up 300yrds, every QB would when they throw the ball 44 times.

    What you need to look at is his TD:TO ratio, comp %, and rating to determine what type of game he had. Looking at those he had less then a 1:1 TD:TO ratio which is poor, less then 60% comp which in modern NFL statistics is poor, and his rating was ~88 which is about average at best for starting QB's. Of course you also have to judge by eye which he didn't give the game away like Romo but he didn't win the game either (he accounted for 7 of the final 17 scored by the Jets in the 4th quarter and 0 points in the last 10mins). When you put it all together Sanchez had a slightly below average game for a starting QB in the league and yet considering his career averages this could be counted as one of his better games. That is not a very good sign
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Sancheeze is the Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson of this age.  He does just enought to not totally hurt the team.  He might be on a super bowl winning team but he will never be an elite QB or never win multiple Super Bowls
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : 60% comp was good 10-20 years ago but now a days even the bottom 50% of QB's in the game throw at least 60% on a regular basis. Sanchez had a great night for him and still couldn't break 60% (though he was close). You can't look at his yrds and TD's and go by that alone. It isn't fantasy football. The Jets barely ran the ball (less then 30%) which for them is something they never do. Of course Sanchez is going to toss up 300yrds, every QB would when they throw the ball 44 times. What you need to look at is his TD:TO ratio, comp %, and rating to determine what type of game he had. Looking at those he had less then a 1:1 TD:TO ratio which is poor, less then 60% comp which in modern NFL statistics is poor, and his rating was ~88 which is about average at best for starting QB's. Of course you also have to judge by eye which he didn't give the game away like Romo but he didn't win the game either (he accounted for 7 of the final 17 scored by the Jets in the 4th quarter and 0 points in the last 10mins). When you put it all together Sanchez had a slightly below average game for a starting QB in the league and yet considering his career averages this could be counted as one of his better games. That is not a very good sign
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    A big knock on Sanchez was that he had a big running game to hide behind and still didn't do very well.  So, with no running game he does do well and now that's a negative?  It seems like people around here have a hard time accepting anything positive from a rival player.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]Dude, please. That;s beyond talking about "mistake free".  He fumbled at the goal line where a FG works there.  It's just something you don't do.  Just go down or throw it away. Then, they allow a blocked punt with no one picking up a guy down the middle? That's beyond a mistake, it's a borderline situation where you might FIRE your STs coach. Then, with time left and timeouts you carelessly lob a ball over to Revis? It's bordering on it looking like Dallas was trying to throw the game, dude.  It's not "mistakes". Also, considering the Jets front 7 is now weakened as opposed to previous seasons and they get no pass rush without a blitz, it's not hard to see why talented WRs had some success against that secondary. Cromartie is a bonehead, Revis is overrated and Witten easily exposed the average coverage skills of those Safeties.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Why do I have the feeling that if we block a punt or a kick that the other team didn't allow it, we blocked it.  Do you know who Westhoff is?
    No doubt Romo did some damage to that secondary.  As I said before, I'll give them more than a week to see if they are worse than the passing D that held a lot of QBs down last year.  The Ryan Bros D is very similar.  I don't see a lot of teams doing what Romo did.  Witten did a good job and I think that is a weak spot on the Jets D.  Hopefully, our TEs will show up next time we face the Jets and can do something.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    The Jets don't have any choice. They keep telling him how great he is which has painted them into a corner no matter what he does in the immediate future. By The way, this is season 3 for him..What you see is what you get and he will not get any better than he is right now or last night. That's a pretty funny thought to me. Sanchez is just good enough to keep the Jets from dumping him and not good enough to ever win a Superbowl. The perfect combination for Rex.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    I don't hear anyone bragging about Sanchez performance.  Injuries are a part of the game and the fact that he had 300 yards and 2 tds against second string players is not his problem.  His job is to put some points on the board and have his team in position to win.  You play with the guys that are there.  Anything else is just an excuse, usually provided by the team that lost.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : A big knock on Sanchez was that he had a big running game to hide behind and still didn't do very well.  So, with no running game he does do well and now that's a negative?  It seems like people around here have a hard time accepting anything positive from a rival player.
    Posted by HaverhillBob[/QUOTE]

    But he didn't do well, what part of that is confusing? He did pretty mediocre actually.

    Out of the 28 starting QB's who have played so far he was

    15th in QB rating
    19th in comp %
    26th in TD:TO ratio

    In the 3 catagories that matter most he was in the bottom 50% of the league in all 3 and in the bottom 1/3rd for 2 of them!!!

    If you want to take it a step further he was 4th in attempts which means that he should be pretty high up on the yrds per game since he threw 10 more atts then the average or just under 33% more passing attempts then the league average.

    At best he was a mediocre QB this weekend at worst he's at the bottom of the barrel for winning QB's this weekend
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Maybe you just spoke to soon? Sanchez did not win that game. That's the difference. Brady wins games and always played in control. It's sort of insulting to the greatness of Brady when you look at how each looks in the game and what the stat lines are.  Brady never wildly threw balls, had a penchant for fumbling, or put his team in tough spots by leaving points on the board. Sanchez is basically Trent Dilfer or a poor man's Jay Cutler. That's really what he is.   Trent Dilfer got himself onto a great Ravens team in 2000 and was a solid game manager, but that won't work in this era now. At some point, the players in that locker room might become a little annoyed having to cover for Marky Mark.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    He throws 2 TDs and 300 yards and he didn't win that game?  Was it the running game?  I'm pretty sure there is absolutely nothing that Sanchez could do for you to say that he won any game ever.
    Why bother calling a play for a block if it's all about blown assignments?  And is the same true for QB sacks?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    The people pointing to the marginal relevance of Sanchez's completion percentage have it mostly right. He's going to hit a high percentage because he's mostly throwing five-yard outs and quick slants. If this guy could take advantage of the matchup problems Burress can create downfield, New Jersey wouldn't struggle against blowbags like the Cowboys. But at the bottom, what you're trying to do is . . .

    What?

    Tell us, Hermm.

    You play to win the game . . .   Hello?

    And New Jersey wins the game, more often than not, even though Sanchez is limited in what he can do. If and when the Jests can no longer pull these kinds of rabbits out of their pants, you may see Sanchez held up to a more critical light, but so long as they keep tripping over wins like they did last night, ain't nobody going to question The Sanchize.

     
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    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Meaningless banter.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : But he didn't do well, what part of that is confusing? He did pretty mediocre actually. Out of the 28 starting QB's who have played so far he was 15th in QB rating 19th in comp % 26th in TD:TO ratio In the 3 catagories that matter most he was in the bottom 50% of the league in all 3 and in the bottom 1/3rd for 2 of them!!! If you want to take it a step further he was 4th in attempts which means that he should be pretty high up on the yrds per game since he threw 10 more atts then the average or just under 33% more passing attempts then the league average. At best he was a mediocre QB this weekend at worst he's at the bottom of the barrel for winning QB's this weekend
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Best part of this is you guys have all done a 180 on the importance of stats.  When the argument was Manning vs. Brady and all the Manning backers thru out his amazing stats, everyone on here was like, stats don't matter winning matters.

    Now all of a sudden winning doesn't matter, stats matter.  Look Sanchez is not an elite QB but he seems to play that way when it matters.  I would rather have a QB that plays well when the game is on the line, then someone like Romo that looks great for 3 quarters then self-destructs in the 4th quarter.

    Anyone who thinks Sanchez is elite is crazy, but on the other end of the spectrum, anyone who thinks the Jets are going to cut/bench him is crazy.  Just win baby.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    After watching the end of that game, I am more grateful that the Patriots have Brady. Romo is generally considered to be a top 10-12 QB in this league, capable of putting up decent stats. Sanchez is an up and comer with a developing playoff pedigree. Yet neither seemed capable of taking the game over in the 4th when it matter. Both made terrible mistakes in the clutch. Romo's fumble, interception to Revis, and botched snap were inexcusable. Sanchez also gave away the game and still got it back. We watched a pair of terrible 300 yard passers last night...perfect example of how stats don't always tell the whole story.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Sure, a QB sack can simply be a lineman being outplayed/manhandled not just a blown coverage call up front. No, he didn't win the game. Romo outplayed Sanchez until his fumble and awful INT late in the game. How is Romo's decision making due to Sanchez's own play?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Romo did outplay Sanchez, even with his mistakes but that doesn't mean Sanchez didn't win the game.  You don't count on Sanchez to throw for 300+ yards and 2 TDs with no running game.. but he did.  He made enough plays to be there at the end.  That is a QBs job.  Just like a pitcher, it doesn't matter if you're up 2-1 or 8-7.  You got to be in it to win it.  The Jets were in it.
    It's so easy to second guess a QB for trying to run it in from the 3 if he fumbles.  Of course, it's brilliant if he makes it.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]The people pointing to the marginal relevance of Sanchez's completion percentage have it mostly right. He's going to hit a high percentage because he's mostly throwing five-yard outs and quick slants. If this guy could take advantage of the matchup problems Burress can create downfield, New Jersey wouldn't struggle against blowbags like the Cowboys. But at the bottom, what you're trying to do is . . . What? Tell us, Hermm. You play to win the game . . .   Hello? And New Jersey wins the game, more often than not, even though Sanchez is limited in what he can do. If and when the Jests can no longer pull these kinds of rabbits out of their pants, you may see Sanchez held up to a more critical light, but so long as they keep tripping over wins like they did last night, ain't nobody going to question The Sanchize.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    Was there more than one Cowboys Jets games on last night?  I saw many passes downfield from Sanchez. It's tough to rack up 300 yards on slants.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]No, it's not. He had a few big ones to Holmes, Keller and even hit Burress on a crossing pattern that he hit in zone. That's like 100 yards right there. You're overrating the amount of yards in this discussion. Some teams may play zone for other reasons and chunks of yards can be had against those D's. INTs can also happen, which we saw.  The Sean Lee INT is a perfect example. They baited Marky Mark. What is better, a QB who is so efficient, he throws for 250 yards and say 2 TDs at a 65% clip, and is integral in the win, or someone who does what Sanchez did and really had no bearing on why the Cowboys threw the game away? You coud argue the simple fact Sanchez couldn't ice the game, giving Romo another shot, is an example of why Sanchez is really just mediocre. If you're doing jumping jacks over seeing your QB eek out a win against that secondary, you may want to consider scaling back your expectations when he faces a good one.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    You can't use stats to claim a guy isn't very good and then use better stats to claim he's still not good... that's kind of dumb.  60% passing and 330 yards/2 TDs is either good or it's not.  You look really silly trying to disect passes claiming that if it were not for this play or that play.... wake up, man, embrace reality.  It happened.  Sanchez played a good game.  There may be more where that came from.
    He obviously is still not a good QB, but he absolutely played a good game.  If he plays games like that 75% of the time, instead of 40% of the time and then in the playoffs, he will be a good QB. IF.
    You're absolutely right about Sanchez getting baited.   The same is true for Romo on the Revis pick. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Best part of this is you guys have all done a 180 on the importance of stats.  When the argument was Manning vs. Brady and all the Manning backers thru out his amazing stats, everyone on here was like, stats don't matter winning matters. Now all of a sudden winning doesn't matter, stats matter.  Look Sanchez is not an elite QB but he seems to play that way when it matters.  I would rather have a QB that plays well when the game is on the line, then someone like Romo that looks great for 3 quarters then self-destructs in the 4th quarter. Anyone who thinks Sanchez is elite is crazy, but on the other end of the spectrum, anyone who thinks the Jets are going to cut/bench him is crazy.  Just win baby.
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    I have never done a 180 and the stats that matter to me are simple, TD:TO ratio, comp %, rating, and of course win %. Efficiency could become a very valuable stat but it's still in it's infancy. I don't care about yrds or TD's truthfully. They are exciting stats but in the end they are just that and those are what most people point to with Manning as reasons why Manning was better then Brady not those stats I listed above. If you look at purely those stats Manning and Brady are almost dead even but Brady has the 3 rings to Mannings 1 which is what puts him over the top.

    As you said just win baby, but at the same time you look at Sanchez and realize if you replace him with an above average QB in the league the Jets would have won more (see the difference now). You can't say that about a Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Manning which is what makes them elite
     
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