How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

         -- 'You can't use stats to claim a guy isn't very good and then use better stats to claim he's still not good... " --

    Ahhh . . .   but that's where  you're wrong, Bob. You can use stats to buttress whatever assinine claim you care to make . . .  and then you can turn around and present them another way so they say something else entirely. That's why statistics are essentially meaningless, and why you will often here annoying people without wit make the obvious (and thus, irritating) claim that "figures lie and liars figure."

    In any case, my claim about Sanchez's comfort zone was more an overview of his career (as this thread is) than about one specific performance. The Sanchize's bread and but is YAC slants . . .  in much the same way Mark Whitten rumbling for 60 yards after a 10-yard completion shows up as a 70-yard completion on Blowmo's stat line.

    Keep your stats.

    They don't tell me anything.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Sanchez wins because the Jets have a great D and a decent running game. It seems like Sanchez can't throw a deep ball or he doesn't do it often enough to make it a legitimate threat for the O. If he keeps throwing slants, hitches and screens pretty soon teams will figure that out. Also helps that he got to do it against a depleted secondary.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]It was solid game from Sanchez, but the INT was brutal, the fumble was bad, he was almost picked late in the 4th again and he still misses what should be easy passes! Not debatable.  He only hits on certain passes.  Do people even watch these games? They scored their 1st td with 22 second left in the 1st half.  The fact is, he really wasn't better than Romo. He wasn't. Romo just choked up the game at the end again. This proves that when you look at the mid tier or worse QBs in this league, Sanchez isn't capable if being better than those QBs. He may be somewhere in the discussion, but then you start to look at his TD/INT ratio, compl% and rating and he's 20-25 range. Let's face it, if Romo doesn't fumble, the punt block doesn't occur or the weak INT at the end does not happen, everyone is looking at Sanchez wondering why he didn't take advantage of an awful secondary. Dallas lost their top 3 CBs!  This is like us starting Molden and a Safety! Dude, if you are glowing over that performance on that secondary, you have some serious issues in analyzing where Sanchez fits. I'd be concerned knowing that even a team like Jacksonville, with a good D, will cause my QB problems next week. Buffalo is no slouch. Miami is no slouch on D.  They have good CBs and good or solid front 7s. Here are the top 10 QBs in the league right now for argument sake: Brady Rodgers Brees Rivers Roethlisberger Matt Ryan Matt Schaub Cassel Josh Freeman Flacco Cutler Eli Manning Romo Agree, generally? I mean, FLacco was a 25 TD and 10 INT guy last year.  He plays in a smaller market, so he gets less credit than a Sanchez type. And then, you have a bunch of young QBs who look quite good when you compare them to Sanchez: Fitzpatrick Bradford McCoy Stafford etc So, you have QBs who show more than what Sanchez shows and they are as good or better in WORSE circumstances (less of a run game, worse O Line, etc). Look at Ryan Fitzpatrick yesterday.  That's another example.  I thought he was good last year and just needed a better O Line and another weapon to work with and look his progression.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Russ,
    You made the wrong list:
    T Jackson
    A Dalton
    L McCown
    K Collins
    J Campbell
    D McNabb
    C McCoy
    C Henne
    M Sanchez 
    M Hasslback
    A Smith
    One persons opinion of the 11 worst starting QB's in the NFL with Sanchez 9th from the bottom.
    I think you are also mistaken in looking at the comp% or TD/INT ratio. Jets are watching W/L's and salary cap/dead money hit. If Jets cut Sanchez next year, his dead salary is $5mil and he saves $9 mil against the cap.
    Lets face it however. Even if the Jets truly stumble and they win 6 games, Sanchez is back. 
    I also don't understand all the Pats fans complaints against Sanchez? If he is so bad, don't you want the Jets to KEEP him?    
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]     -- 'You can't use stats to claim a guy isn't very good and then use better stats to claim he's still not good... " -- Ahhh . . .   but that's where  you're wrong, Bob . You can use stats to buttress whatever assinine claim you care to make . . .  and then you can turn around and present them another way so they say something else entirely. That's why statistics are essentially meaningless, and why you will often here annoying people without wit make the obvious (and thus, irritating) claim that "figures lie and liars figure." In any case, my claim about Sanchez's comfort zone was more an overview of his career (as this thread is) than about one specific performance. The Sanchize's bread and but is YAC slants . . .  in much the same way Mark Whitten rumbling for 60 yards after a 10-yard completion shows up as a 70-yard completion on Blowmo's stat line. Keep your stats. They don't tell me anything.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    Good QBs put their receivers in a position to get YAC, I think that there may even be some coaching encouragement behind that.  Have you been aware of the 3-5 yard passes to Welker, Woodhead, and Faulk that we've been lucky enough have? 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]Sanchez wins because the Jets have a great D and a decent running game. It seems like Sanchez can't throw a deep ball or he doesn't do it often enough to make it a legitimate threat for the O. If he keeps throwing slants, hitches and screens pretty soon teams will figure that out. Also helps that he got to do it against a depleted secondary.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    For two years, now into a third year, Sanchez has thrown hitches, slants and screens and teams may figure it out?  This is your big revelation?  When? 2015? 2016?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    He doesn't lose close games as much as he wins them, enough said.  Do mI like him no, buyt he wins and I'm not going to pretend something different.  Look what Romo did.  I don't think Mark makes those kind of mistakes. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : I have never done a 180 and the stats that matter to me are simple, TD:TO ratio, comp %, rating, and of course win %. Efficiency could become a very valuable stat but it's still in it's infancy. I don't care about yrds or TD's truthfully. They are exciting stats but in the end they are just that and those are what most people point to with Manning as reasons why Manning was better then Brady not those stats I listed above. If you look at purely those stats Manning and Brady are almost dead even but Brady has the 3 rings to Mannings 1 which is what puts him over the top. As you said just win baby, but at the same time you look at Sanchez and realize if you replace him with an above average QB in the league the Jets would have won more (see the difference now). You can't say that about a Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Manning which is what makes them elite
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Your making an argument on a assumption so its kinda hard to argue against it.  ---"but at the same time you look at Sanchez and realize if you replace him with an above average QB in the league the Jets would have won more"

    What above average QB?  How many more wins?  They went to the AFC championship the last 2 years so they couldn't have won to many more games.

    The guy has only been in the league 2 years.  He is still a work in progress.  I am just not as down on him as others.  I think he has the "potential" to be one of those "above average" QB's.  I doubt he will ever be "elite" but can be very good.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Your making an argument on a assumption so its kinda hard to argue against it.  ---"but at the same time you look at Sanchez and realize if you replace him with an above average QB in the league the Jets would have won more" What above average QB?  How many more wins?  They went to the AFC championship the last 2 years so they couldn't have won to many more games. The guy has only been in the league 2 years.  He is still a work in progress.  I am just not as down on him as others.  I think he has the "potential" to be one of those "above average" QB's.  I doubt he will ever be "elite" but can be very good.
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    He doesn't have the arm strength to make all of the throws. The hitches and slants are in the play book to protect him against mistakes and throws he cannot make. Jets offensively game plan working around Sanchez's short comings rather than the opposing teams weakness. And when it back fires it is usually Schottenheimer that gets the blame.
    Sanchez will improve, but his improvement will be in fewer mistakes made. I think Sanchez due to his physical limnitations is never elite, but if he does cut down on his mistakes and improves his accuracy, he is someone that needs to be game planned for. 
    I see a close comp to Eli, but Sanchez doesn't have his arm strength. Watching both of them yesterday, I cant believe how poorly Eli played.
     
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]I find it fascinating how Patsman3 is on here constantly in on Jets threads propping those up, playing the other side of the coin for argument's sake, as a supposed Pats fan. Funny how we don't see him in on a Colts, Pitt, Baltimore, or really any other non Pats thread. It's just the Jets. Hmm. Most Pats fans who know a little about football can see Sanchez's flaws.  RKarp is accurate in what he said. The other main issue with Sanchez is he is small.  What's he, 6'0?  Brees is shorter too, but by 2003 or 2004, people could see Brees was legit. This is another reason why they roll out Sanchez a lot.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I not only find it fascinating but very telling that you can't believe a pats fan can actually think a player on a team other then the Pats is half decent.  Homer much???
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WeDerrWEDAT. Show WeDerrWEDAT's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Hey Crusty, I feel pretty good about what Sanchize was able to do against a Rob Ryan defense for the first game of the year.  That about sums it up.  can you say the same thing about the last time your team manned up against a Rob Ryan defense?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Your making an argument on a assumption so its kinda hard to argue against it.  ---"but at the same time you look at Sanchez and realize if you replace him with an above average QB in the league the Jets would have won more" What above average QB?  How many more wins?  They went to the AFC championship the last 2 years so they couldn't have won to many more games. The guy has only been in the league 2 years.  He is still a work in progress.  I am just not as down on him as others.  I think he has the "potential" to be one of those "above average" QB's.  I doubt he will ever be "elite" but can be very good.
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    If they had an above average QB I do think they could have won more regular season games. How this matters is teams they play in the playoffs. Maybe in 09' they win 2 more games winning the division and take a different path to the AFC champ game and they aren't worn out to play the Colts. Or they win a couple more in 10' and have different opponents going into the AFC champ game. Who knows what would have happened but I stand by that a better QB would have lead to more wins. Now, that doesn't always translate into SB appearences but having a higher seed going into the playoffs has proven to give you a better chance of making the SB.

    Yes Sanchez has "potential" just like a whole host of other QB's that have had. But, as of right now he looks more like Young, Smith, Leinart then he does Bradford, Stafford, Flacco which should be concerning to Jet fans to say the least
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : Russ, You made the wrong list: T Jackson A Dalton L McCown K Collins J Campbell D McNabb C McCoy C Henne M Sanchez  M Hasslback A Smith One persons opinion of the 11 worst starting QB's in the NFL with Sanchez 9th from the bottom. I think you are also mistaken in looking at the comp% or TD/INT ratio. Jets are watching W/L's and salary cap/dead money hit. If Jets cut Sanchez next year, his dead salary is $5mil and he saves $9 mil against the cap. Lets face it however. Even if the Jets truly stumble and they win 6 games, Sanchez is back.  I also don't understand all the Pats fans complaints against Sanchez? If he is so bad, don't you want the Jets to KEEP him?    
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    exactly!!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]     -- 'You can't use stats to claim a guy isn't very good and then use better stats to claim he's still not good... " -- Ahhh . . .   but that's where  you're wrong, Bob . You can use stats to buttress whatever assinine claim you care to make . . .  and then you can turn around and present them another way so they say something else entirely. That's why statistics are essentially meaningless, and why you will often here annoying people without wit make the obvious (and thus, irritating) claim that "figures lie and liars figure." In any case, my claim about Sanchez's comfort zone was more an overview of his career (as this thread is) than about one specific performance. The Sanchize's bread and but is YAC slants . . .  in much the same way Mark Whitten rumbling for 60 yards after a 10-yard completion shows up as a 70-yard completion on Blowmo's stat line. Keep your stats. They don't tell me anything.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    That's funny and quite true..I make this same argument to my friends on a regular basis. It applies to any topic you want to argue also. I despise stats. They are only good to validate opinions, not facts because facts speak for themselves.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : If they had an above average QB I do think they could have won more regular season games. How this matters is teams they play in the playoffs. Maybe in 09' they win 2 more games winning the division and take a different path to the AFC champ game and they aren't worn out to play the Colts. Or they win a couple more in 10' and have different opponents going into the AFC champ game. Who knows what would have happened but I stand by that a better QB would have lead to more wins. Now, that doesn't always translate into SB appearences but having a higher seed going into the playoffs has proven to give you a better chance of making the SB. Yes Sanchez has "potential" just like a whole host of other QB's that have had. But, as of right now he looks more like Young, Smith, Leinart then he does Bradford, Stafford, Flacco which should be concerning to Jet fans to say the least
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I would say you're right about that.  It is a very rare thing that starting a rookie QB gives you good results.  I think almost any 'starter' in the NFL would have given them 9 wins.  However, I think the goal was to get some games under his belt.  Bravado or not, I doubt anyone on the Jets thought they would do as well as they did in Rex Ryan's first year.  I sure didn't.  How many first time head coaches get to that level early in their careers, never mind playing a rookie QB.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez? : That's funny and quite true..I make this same argument to my friends on a regular basis. It applies to any topic you want to argue also. I despise stats. They are only good to validate opinions, not facts because facts speak for themselves.
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    I think that wins are far more important than stats.  Wait, are wins stats?
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Sanchez will be with the jets for a while. They invested a lot in him and the return has been enough to warrant at least sticking with him to a wait and see. He did improve from his rookie year last season. And he has been effective in the post-season. How much more he can develop is very debatable. In fact, his play in the past season has been perhaps the decisive factor in their advancing in the playoffs, as their regular seasons have been a bit iffy as to whether they would even make the playoffs, having gotten in on the last day two years in a row.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    In Response to Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?:
    [QUOTE]jimbo (London) Anyway Romo starts for the Fins tonight? That seems to be a sure recipe for a Pats victory. Mike Reiss   (12:39 PM) Unreal, Jimbo. Couldn't believe what I was watching last night. Implosion.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Is Henne any different?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Well, at least he is better than Tony Romo.  I thought he did ok.  Pretty good pass rush from where I sat.  I hate the Jests, and I was so mad last night I didn't sleep till close to 3am, but he did what he needed to for the W.  Except the stupid fumble.  WOW DID DALLAS THROW THAT GAME.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from magicalhobo. Show magicalhobo's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    Sanchez will once again get credit for the win, and people will note that he had over 300 yards and all that jazz, but wont mention how many times he gave the game to the cowboys. The terrible interception, the fumble, the erratic passing (especially in the first half), and then the pathetic pass that should have been picked off near the end of the game. He made some good throws, but also made a lot of bad ones. The MVP of that game should be Tony Romo. He successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

    The Jets play 60 minutes of football, i'll give them that. That tackle on Witten saved them the game. However, they didn't win because of Sanchez. He is a decent game manager but that is it.

    Oh, and Rob Ryan's defense had its top three CBs out of the game. That definitely had something to do with it. He didn't need to make any hard throws that would challenge his accuraccy because Holmes and Keller were open 99% of the time.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: How long can the Jets give Sanchez?

    I would hope that if he's a mediocre as some here would like us to bwelieve that he'll have a long and frustrating career as the starter and finish his career with the most wins and starts by a QB never to have won a division...or played in a superbowl...
     

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