How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    Just sayin' - we have been heavily concentrating on D in draft and FA for some few years consecutively now.  We have Talib, McCourty, Mayo, Hightower, Big Vince, Kelly from Oakland, Jones from Syracuse last year, and I count Collins (high 2nd) as a #1 for us this year.

    We still can't get key stops against top teams,and 49ers and Ravens had there way with us last year, the later twice!  What's up with that?

    If it's not the players is it BB's schemes - bend don't break - gap control - infrequent use of blitzes -  reluctance to sent extra rushers from different angles with frequency even when it seems to work.

    What's your take on this, compadres?

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    If we had a good D we would dominate, go undefeated most every year and win multiple super bowls. It's fun to dream. Unrealistic but fun.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to digger0862's comment:

     

    If we had a good D we would dominate, go undefeated most every year and win multiple super bowls. It's fun to dream. Unrealistic but fun.

     



    If both sides actually played well and cohesively in the playoffs then we would go undefeated almost every year and win multiple super bowls.

     

    I don't think any rational fan here is saying that our defense is dominant, nor are they saying they are that great.  They are a middle-of-the-road defense who plays good enough in the playoffs.  Our offense?  No.  We score 36 ppg in the regular season and barely eek out 15 in the playoffs.  EVERY YEAR.  It's just so hypocritical for fans to b*tch about the defense when our offense has been absent in the past 5 playoff losses.  Once again, not saying that the defense has played great, but it's tiresome to see so many here constantly blame the defense when the offense has played equally, if not more, poor.

    We know what we are going to get from our defense going into the playoffs.  Our offense? That is the question.

    Slow time of the year so I guess it's time to have this horse be beaten again.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    Patriots Super Bowl results...         Points scored / points allowed

    2001 win20 pts / 17 pts

    2003 win32 pts / 29 pts

    2004 win24 pts / 21 pts

    2007 Loss14 pts/ 17 pts

    2011 Loss: 17pts / 21 pts

     

    Sorry, but where is the glaring discrepancy between the winning and losing years again?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Patriots Super Bowl results...         Points scored / points allowed

    2001 win20 pts / 17 pts

    2003 win32 pts / 29 pts

    2004 win24 pts / 21 pts

    2007 Loss14 pts/ 17 pts

    2011 Loss: 17pts / 21 pts

     

    Sorry, but where is the glaring discrepancy between the winning and losing years again?

     




    If points told the whole story you might have a point.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    The SB games specifically were always 1-2 extra plays on both sides of the ball. Early on, the D was timely.  In the latter SB games...they didn't make defensive stops when they needed to.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    The SB games specifically were always 1-2 extra plays on both sides of the ball. Early on, the D was timely.  In the latter SB games...they didn't make defensive stops when they needed to.



    Very true.  I don't think anybody is disputing that.  However, when the offense falls asleep for the majority of the game, they deserve some blame as well.  Both sides need to play better complimentary football if we are going to win another Super Bowl.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In the 2007 Super Bowl turnovers were equal at one each and both punters kicked it away an equal amount of times. The score was what it was.

    In the 2011 Super Bowl New England's offense turned it over twice, once via interception and another along with two points via a safety.  The Patriots defense made the Giants punt four times, once more than the Giant's defense did to our offense who only punted three times but rewarded our defense for all their hard work by turning it over and only scoring 17 points.

    You're right that turnovers played a part, our offense did all the turning over and no scoring, tell me again how the defense was to blame.  

    The defense played above themselves, actually improved in the playoffs.

    The offense played terrible...

    You can blame the defense all you want, but don't tell us how great the offense was, because with the same amount of possessions the Giants had they scored 14 and 17 points.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In the 2011 Super Bowl New England's offense turned it over twice, once via interception and another along with two points via a safety.



    Okay, I get the two points part. That's a bad thing.

    I just don't get the "turnover" part being any different than a 3 and out deep in your own end. You are getting to kick it away just like any punt.

     

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

    In the 2011 Super Bowl New England's offense turned it over twice, once via interception and another along with two points via a safety.

     



    Okay, I get the two points part. That's a bad thing.

     

    I just don't get the "turnover" part being any different than a 3 and out deep in your own end. You are getting to kick it away just like any punt.

     

     

     

     



    You give the ball right back to them. That's turnover enough for me. might as well spot them 9

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    Moreover you won the coin toss, elect to kick, the Patriot defense holds them and then you give the advantage right back to them along with two points.

    I don't even want to mention the interception, which came to start the 4th quarter, holding the slimmest of leads and happens ON A FIRST DOWN!  

    That is the opposite of clutch, that is pure choke. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Patriots Super Bowl results...         Points scored / points allowed/poss/TO'S

    2001 win20 pts / 17 pts   12 possessions, 2 ints

    2003 win32 pts / 29 pts      14 possessions, fumble recovery

    2004 win24 pts / 21 pts  12 possessions, 3 ints

    2007 Loss14 pts/ 17 pts,  8 possessions, ZERO INTS, lead until last drive

    2011 Loss: 17pts / 21 pts,  8 possessions, ZERO INTS, lead until last drive

     

    Sorry, but where is the glaring discrepancy between the winning and losing years again?

     There's your glaring descrepancy!!!!




     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    In response to digger0862's comment:

     

    If we had a good D we would dominate, go undefeated most every year and win multiple super bowls. It's fun to dream. Unrealistic but fun.

     



    If both sides actually played well and cohesively in the playoffs then we would go undefeated almost every year and win multiple super bowls.

     

    I don't think any rational fan here is saying that our defense is dominant, nor are they saying they are that great.  They are a middle-of-the-road defense who plays good enough in the playoffs.  Our offense?  No.  We score 36 ppg in the regular season and barely eek out 15 in the playoffs.  EVERY YEAR.  It's just so hypocritical for fans to b*tch about the defense when our offense has been absent in the past 5 playoff losses.  Once again, not saying that the defense has played great, but it's tiresome to see so many here constantly blame the defense when the offense has played equally, if not more, poor.

    We know what we are going to get from our defense going into the playoffs.  Our offense? That is the question.

    Slow time of the year so I guess it's time to have this horse be beaten again.




    If both sides actually played well and cohesively in the playoffs then we would go undefeated almost every year and win multiple super bowls.

     

    oh boy...

    (rolls eyes- shakes head)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

     

    In response to digger0862's comment:

     

    If we had a good D we would dominate, go undefeated most every year and win multiple super bowls. It's fun to dream. Unrealistic but fun.

     



    If both sides actually played well and cohesively in the playoffs then we would go undefeated almost every year and win multiple super bowls.

     

    I don't think any rational fan here is saying that our defense is dominant, nor are they saying they are that great.  They are a middle-of-the-road defense who plays good enough in the playoffs.  Our offense?  No.  We score 36 ppg in the regular season and barely eek out 15 in the playoffs.  EVERY YEAR.  It's just so hypocritical for fans to b*tch about the defense when our offense has been absent in the past 5 playoff losses.  Once again, not saying that the defense has played great, but it's tiresome to see so many here constantly blame the defense when the offense has played equally, if not more, poor.

    We know what we are going to get from our defense going into the playoffs.  Our offense? That is the question.

    Slow time of the year so I guess it's time to have this horse be beaten again.

     




    If both sides actually played well and cohesively in the playoffs then we would go undefeated almost every year and win multiple super bowls.

     

     

    oh boy...

    (rolls eyes- shakes head)



    I was responding to digger's comment, moron.  Read it instead of deleting it from my reply.  I was essentially editing what he said.  Try to comprehend the context.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to SilverSun's comment:

    Just sayin' - we have been heavily concentrating on D in draft and FA for some few years consecutively now.  We have Talib, McCourty, Mayo, Hightower, Big Vince, Kelly from Oakland, Jones from Syracuse last year, and I count Collins (high 2nd) as a #1 for us this year.

    We still can't get key stops against top teams,and 49ers and Ravens had there way with us last year, the later twice!  What's up with that?



    Collins was the 20th pick of the 2nd round, which is not a "high" 2nd.  And he wasn't on the team last year.

    Kelly wasn't on the team last year.

    Talib was acquired in a trade prior to Week 6, and missed 4 of the remaining 10 games due to injury or suspension.  When he was healthy though, the D was markedly improved.

    Jones and Hightower contributed, but were rookies last year.  They should only improve going forward.

    That leaves only 3 "#1s" on last year's team (McCourty, Mayo, Vince).  If the defense continues to struggle this season, you can make this post talking about all the talent on D, but it didn't apply last year.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to SilverSun's comment:

    Just sayin' - we have been heavily concentrating on D in draft and FA for some few years consecutively now.  We have Talib, McCourty, Mayo, Hightower, Big Vince, Kelly from Oakland, Jones from Syracuse last year, and I count Collins (high 2nd) as a #1 for us this year.

    We still can't get key stops against top teams,and 49ers and Ravens had there way with us last year, the later twice!  What's up with that?

    If it's not the players is it BB's schemes - bend don't break - gap control - infrequent use of blitzes -  reluctance to sent extra rushers from different angles with frequency even when it seems to work.

    What's your take on this, compadres?

     



    said a lot about it over the past 2 years. imagine everyone has heard my thoghts by now.

    and as to how many licks des it take to get the the center of a tootsie roll....err lombardi

    well it's all about value you see ;) ...............

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Patriots Super Bowl results...         Points scored / points allowed

    2001 win20 pts / 17 pts

    2003 win32 pts / 29 pts

    2004 win24 pts / 21 pts

    2007 Loss14 pts/ 17 pts

    2011 Loss: 17pts / 21 pts

     

    Sorry, but where is the glaring discrepancy between the winning and losing years again?

     



    bb is a bit too conservtive for my liking pretty much all teh way around. domt even get me started on his fear of hiring the top coaches in the game.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Patriots Super Bowl results...         Points scored / points allowed

    2001 win20 pts / 17 pts

    2003 win32 pts / 29 pts

    2004 win24 pts / 21 pts

    2007 Loss14 pts/ 17 pts

    2011 Loss: 17pts / 21 pts

     

    Sorry, but where is the glaring discrepancy between the winning and losing years again?

     




    Well the Pats offense only scored 13 points in 2001. 7 of those are a Ty Law pick 6. 

    And in 2004 they benefitted from 4 turnovers. 

    That's more turnovers in one game than the current defense has generated in the last four playoff runs combined. 

    Those offenses weren't nearly as good as the current offense, they just had a whole lot more chances to score with that defense backing them.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    The SB games specifically were always 1-2 extra plays on both sides of the ball. Early on, the D was timely.  In the latter SB games...they didn't make defensive stops when they needed to.



    Or record turnovers. Plus zero contributions from special teams. 

    The irony being, St Louis, Philly, and Carolina were all better offensive clubs than the NYG too. It's not even one to one. That old Pats defense would have pitched a cold shutout against Eli and company. The offense would have only had to show up to kneel on the ball. 

     

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: How Many #1's Do Pats Need to Have a Good D???

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to SilverSun's comment:

     

    Just sayin' - we have been heavily concentrating on D in draft and FA for some few years consecutively now.  We have Talib, McCourty, Mayo, Hightower, Big Vince, Kelly from Oakland, Jones from Syracuse last year, and I count Collins (high 2nd) as a #1 for us this year.

    We still can't get key stops against top teams,and 49ers and Ravens had there way with us last year, the later twice!  What's up with that?

    If it's not the players is it BB's schemes - bend don't break - gap control - infrequent use of blitzes -  reluctance to sent extra rushers from different angles with frequency even when it seems to work.

    What's your take on this, compadres?

     

     



    Umm, what do 4 turnovers by our own offense in our own zone have to do with our own defense?  That's why SF got out to a big lead on us. Repeat turnovers, 4 times in a row in our zone.

     

    We get stops all the time during games, have led the AFC three years in a row in creating turnovers, have a very good Run D, etc.

    If Talib and Jones are healthy in January, I think we win that game.   You must watch different games than I do.

    Why is this so difficult?  BB had a huge draft last year with Jones, Hightower and Dennard and then added Talib. I fully expect those players added into that solid base will do wonders after a full year of camp together.

    Apparently, some people are going to be absolutely stunned when this D rolls out in 2013.




    Oh, crusty troll when will you learn?

    The great D's turn overs are nothing but a result of the offensive dominance.

    For instance, last year the Pats D has exactly 2 picks in the 5 losses.  That's less than 1/2 (.4) a pick per game and the same ratio applies to the post season ( less than .5 picks in the losses and less than .5 in the play-offs.  Coincidence?

    The remaining 18 picks came during BLOWOUTS!  1.5 per game.

    And on the contrary, most people will be ECSTATIC if and when BB puts a good D on the field.

    ECSTATIC!  It's been a long time coming and there's nothing we would love more!

    BTW, it's a PASSING league, which makes a good pass D  more important than a run D.

    How many teams commit to running against the Pats?  Any one??? 

    Why would they when most QB's have the best game of their careers in passing?

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share