how much to sign DMC?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:



    I used to say the same thing until I understood their system and how they achieve the rankings. 



    well, explan it to me please, how do they work?



    Gladly,

    Grading

    .
    1) Why do we grade?

    The goal of our detailed grading process is to gauge how players execute their roles over the course of a game by looking at the performance of each individual on each play. We look beyond the stat sheet at game footage to try to gain an understanding of how well a lineman is blocking on a given play, how much space and help a runner is being given on a play, how effectively a pass rusher brings pressure or how well a defender covers a receiver.
    .
    We collect lots of extra statistics such as yards after catch, yards after contact, missed tackles, dropped passes etc., but our real focus is on grading individual performance on each play. Did an offensive lineman seal his block to spring the runner through a hole? Did a defensive lineman beat his block to force a runner to change the play direction in the backfield? Was the crucial third-down completion due to the quarterback beating the coverage or a breakdown in coverage?
    .
    We examine not just the statistical result of a play, but the context of that statistic. The defensive tackle may have made a tackle on a play, but if it was 3rd-and-5 and he got blown 4 yards off of the ball to make the tackle after a 6-yard gain, that’s not a good play.
    .
    This allows us to present a unique set of statistics for individual player performance in each game. We present base statistics alongside more advanced statistics together with a grade for every player. The marks are presented as overall composite grades but are also broken down in a number of key areas:.

    Offense
    • Running
    • Passing and receiving
    • Pass protection
    • Run blocking
    • Screen blocking

    Defense
    • Run defense
    • Pass rushing
    • Pass coverage
    .

    .

    2) What Do We Grade?

    Throughout the course of the season (regular season and playoffs) we grade every single offensive, defensive and special teams snap. We log data such as the point of attack of a running play, the location a pass was thrown and hang time of kicks and punts before moving on to the player-performance analysis.
    .
    A typical line of analysis will describe an offensive and defensive player being graded for a one-on-one confrontation. This will include their names and grades as well as a comment describing the play. So for example, a match-up between a right guard and left defensive tackle could result in the following comment:
    .
    The RG drove the DLT down the line of scrimmage opening a wide hole off his outside hip for the running back (##) to pick up the first down on 3rd & 3.”
    .
    This type of notation serves a few purposes. First, it captures detail for grading, a concise comment that can be referenced back to individual players for further analysis at a later date.Also, due to each play having a unique ID, it also creates a clear and accessible audit trail for all analysis.
    .  
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    3) How Do We Grade?

    Each grade given is between +2 and -2, with 0.5 increments and an average of 0. A positive intervention in the game rates a positive grading and vice-versa. Very (very) few performances draw a +/-2 rating. In fact, the distribution of non-zero grades is like this:
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    +2.0 0.01percent +1.5 0.3percent +1.0 16percent +0.5 37percent (unbalanced because of the way WRs and HBs are rated) -0.5 24percent -1.0 22percent -1.5 0.5percent -2.0 0.01percent

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    The grading takes into account many things and effectively brings “intelligence” to raw statistics.
    .
    For example, a raw stat might tell you a tackle conceded a sack. However, how long did he protect the QB for before he gave it up? Additionally, when did he give it up? If it was within the last two minutes on a potentially game-tying drive, it may be rather more important than when his team is running out the clock in a 30-point blowout.
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    The average grade, or what we would typically expect of the average player, is therefore defined as zero. In reality, the vast majority of grades on each individual play are zero and what we are grading are the exceptions to this.
    .
    A seal block on the backside of a play, for example, is something that it is reasonable to expect to be completed successfully. Consequently, it receives a zero grade, whereas the differentiation between a good and poor block is a heavy downgrade for a failed seal block to the backside of a running play.
    .
    .

    4) The “Rules” of Grading

    Because of the nature of the roles, each position is graded in a slightly different way and the definitions for each run on for many pages. Although we’re not going to publish our 30+ page document on how we do this, not least because that’s our IP, below are a few of the key principles in our grading methodology:
    .

    • DON’T GUESS — If you’re not 95 percent sure what’s gone on then don’t grade the player for that play. The grades must stand up to scrutiny and criticism, and it’s far better to say you’re not sure than be wrong.

    It is, however, crucial that this is not seen as an excuse to shy away from making a judgement. What we definitely do not do is raise or lower the grading because we’re not sure. Giving a grade of -0.5 rather than -1.5 for a player on an individual play because you’re unsure is the wrong grade to give. If the grader is 95 percent sure of the severe fault on the play, the grade is -1.5. If, however, the grader is unsure of his judgment, the correct grade is 0.
    .
    • WE ARE NOT SCOUTS — We aren’t looking for (or grading) style or technique, merely the result of the play. We aren’t looking for promise and potential that can be coached up. We aren’t looking for things like “heavy-legged waist benders” on the O-line. We aren’t looking for DBs with “stiff hips.”

    We are looking for the result of that poor technique, not the poor technique itself. If poor technique results in a positive play, that is graded at the same level as good technique yielding a positive play. Did the lineman make the block he attempted, by whatever means?

    This is professional football, and our biggest assumption (one that we feel, and have been informed, is a very safe assumption) is that the player at least attempted to complete his assignment on an individual play. This removes a large degree of the doubt surrounding us not having access to playbooks and play calls. We are grading what happened, and it is safe to assume that in the vast majority of cases the assignments carried out were the assignments called on that play.
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    • YOU DO NOT HAVE TO APPORTION BLAME ON EVERY PLAY — On each play there is often a “winner.” One unit, be it the offense or the defense, will usually get the better of a play by varying degrees. This, however, does not entail that one or more individuals on the losing unit are to blame.

    For example, if an offense is stopped on 3rd-and-3 on a running play for 2 yards, that would constitute a failure for the offensive unit. But each member of the offense may very well have carried out his assignment properly.

    Say the defense sets up overloaded against the run. Every defender except one is successfully blocked. A lone, unblocked defender makes a strong tackle to stop the back short of the marker.

    In that instance, no one individual is at fault for the play failing. The defense simply had the right play called. Sometimes plays are designed badly, sometimes coaches don’t adjust. This site is looking at individual player performance, not that of coaches and not necessarily how individual player performance correlates with team performance.
    .
    • GREAT PLAYERS SCREW UP TOO — Blame is apportioned according to who is at fault on the play, not according to seniority. If a veteran QB clearly overthrows a rookie WR, it is not assumed the rookie got something wrong (as some commentators and journalists assume while watching the game live).

    We treat players as a number rather than a name and the reputation attached to that name. We treat Ray Lewis as Baltimore No. 52 and see what grade he comes out with at the end for the individual performances in that game.
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    • ZERO (0.0) IS THE AVERAGE GRADE — If a player does something you would normally expect, then this scores a 0. If a linebacker makes an unblocked tackle 5 yards downfield or a tight end makes a wide-open catch for an 8-yard gain, they receive a score of 0 for that play.

    Grades are given for plays which are reasonably considered to be better or worse than the average or expected play. So for example, if the linebacker were to then force a fumble on that tackle, that would constitute a positive play and a positive grade. If the tight end were to in fact drop the wide-open pass, that would constitute a negative play and a negative grade.
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    .

    5) Normalization and What the Grades Mean

    Once we’ve got the raw grades we could leave it there, but this would lead to a number of problems.
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    For example, because an offensive lineman can only be negatively graded in pass protection, the perfect score in the raw data is 0. However, what if a lineman plays half the number of passing plays of another guy and they both score 0? What allows you to understand the second has done the better job? This is where Player Participation comes in: To fully understand how a player has performed, we need to know how many plays he’s participated in and what role he performed.
    .
    So when we look at, say, a TE, we need to know how many plays he spent out in pass routes, how many times he blocked for the run and how many times he stayed in to block for the pass. To this number we then apply a normalization factor to set the AVERAGE player in that facet of the game to 0.
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    If, however, you look at the “By Position” tab, you will notice that not all of the averages are 0 for every season. This is because we applied the average of 0 to our first season and have retained those “normalization factors” throughout the subsequent seasons to allow a comparison of how the average performance has shifted over seasons. This demonstrates how the standard of play in the league changes through time.
    .
    Normalization gives the grades their full setting as a performance indicator for an individual over his full body of work on a per-game, per-season and per-play basis.
    .
    .

    6) What is Player Participation?

    Once we realized we needed to normalize the data, we wanted that normalization to be as accurate as possible. The only way to do that was to determine how many times each player was on the field doing a particular role.
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    Unfortunately, we found at a pretty early stage that due to the way the networks cover special teams plays, we could only include offensive and defensive plays. However, that aside, what it gave us (and, we hope, you as well) was a much more complete insight into how various players were used, in what packages and in what situations. We therefore can also provide breakdowns of where each player played on each play and the role he performed (blitzing, blocking, coverage etc.).
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    .

    7) How subjective is the Grading?

    Many people say that as soon as you start grading, you bring subjectivity into your work. Obviously, to some degree, that’s true.
    .
    However, there’s also subjectivity around whether a play was a QB run for negative yardage or a sack, if an assist on a tackle should be awarded and if a catch was dropped or not. Sure, you can come up with a set of rules to determine which is which, but in the end, at the borderline between one and the other, it’s always subjective. It comes down to a judgment call.
    .
    The real trick of grading is to define a clear set of rules, encompassing each type of play. If your rules are thorough and precise enough, the answers just fall out. It becomes as easy as determining the dropped pass that hit the TE right between the numbers.
    .
    Just like with the more mainstream statistics, there are occasions when the choice is difficult. But the difference on our site is this: If a guy is going to be upgraded or downgraded on a judgment call, we let it ride. We simply make the comment and then put in a 0.
    .
    Statistics in their raw form are considered objective. But in our opinion, with the small number of NFL games played each season, raw stats are very often unintelligent. If a QB throws three interceptions in a game but one came from a dropped pass, another from a WR running a poor route and a third on a Hail Mary at the end of the half, it skews his stats by far too great an amount to be useful.  Our “subjective” grading allows us to bring some intelligence to the raw numbers.
    .
    .

    8 ) How accurate are the Statistics and Grading?

    Our player participation data has been confirmed as being 99 percent accurate, and we firmly believe that we are more than 90 percent accurate in our grading of individual plays. We’ve been commended by NFL players for the accuracy of our grading and told we are “light years” ahead of anything available elsewhere in media circles.
    .
    Although we are more than happy with the accuracy (and the constant improvement in accuracy) of the individual areas of our grades, the final “overall” grade is one that is cause for much discussion among NFL fans and the PFF staff as well.
    .
    For example, we’re happy with how the pass-blocking and run-blocking grades are constructed for offensive linemen, the balance those two skills are given to create an overall grade will vary from fan to fan, coach to coach and scheme to scheme. This is an area we are hoping to improve in the future, allowing fans to input their own weightings at the “By Position” page. This would provide the option to come up with their own overall grading depending upon how they view the different skills that make up an individual position.
    .
    .

    9) I Think Some of Your Grading is Wrong. What Do I Do?

    We are always keen to hear constructive criticism of our gradings — if you’d like to get hold of us directly you can either go to the “Contact Us” section, leave a comment in articles or, better still, open a question in our forum. We would love to hear from anyone who has done a separate play-by-play analysis on player performance to compare notes and findings.
    .

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    So Joe, as much as I appreciate in depth and I am sure fully researched and validated comments like "Nink Sucks" I will take the word of men and women who's job it is to evaluate each and every individual play throughout an entire season and grade these players.

    For example, after reading how the grades are reached is it not amazing that Rob Ninkovich at 260 pounds going up against the best RT's in the world turns in a +25 rating against the run for an entire season? The highest rating for a DE against the run for 5 years, while also leading hte Patriots in QB pressures, and 2nd in sacks! Wow.

    I read analaytical comments from "fans" on this board like Spikes sucks and he is a bust, but when I see he had a top 5 ranking for line backers against the run, and knowing that he was a situational run defender, I conclude that Spikes did the job his coaches asked him to do very well.

    When McCourty is the lone Patriot to make the PFF pro bowl team I know that the people who evaluated every single one of his plays compared to every single play by Earl Thomas, and TJ Ward think that McCourty played a better season then those guys. He lead the league in passes defensed, didn't give up big plays, was almost always right place right time and despite what a few guys with axes to grind say on this board, he was a very sound tackler.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?


    Thanks True now I kinda get it how they rank them

     but still... do you honestly think DMC had a better year than TJ Ward or even Earl Thomas? I don't. yes, of course McCourty is a sound player. does it all well. covers ground, defends balls, and tackles in the open field very consistently. But safeties are supposed to be playmakers right? I wouldnt catagorize DMC as a playmaker. why? becuase steve gregory is next to him. put a TJ Ward next to DMC he will become a playmker which a FS should be. DMC hasnt reached his full potential becuase he has to cover Gregory's azs all the time.

    On Nink, yet again, obviously a very solid player but DEs need to be able to totally take over games at times. now i look to Jones to do that which he hasnt yet but still for all the talk Nink gets around here you would think he owns all OLinemen. He simply doesnt. He plays the run great, and can get pressure at times. He's solid, but overhyped by some and underrated by others.

    I've always been on the Spikes train. he makes plays vs. the run. You know what you get with him. He was good. Too bad he will be gone this FA....

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    Would the Pats TAG McCourty? Of course not.

    If you could take McCourty or Ward as your FS who ya got? It's Ward hands down and all day long.

     

    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5877/tj-ward

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:


    Thanks True now I kinda get it how they rank them

     but still... do you honestly think DMC had a better year than TJ Ward or even Earl Thomas? I don't. yes, of course McCourty is a sound player. does it all well. covers ground, defends balls, and tackles in the open field very consistently. But safeties are supposed to be playmakers right? I wouldnt catagorize DMC as a playmaker. why? becuase steve gregory is next to him. put a TJ Ward next to DMC he will become a playmker which a FS should be. DMC hasnt reached his full potential becuase he has to cover Gregory's azs all the time.

    On Nink, yet again, obviously a very solid player but DEs need to be able to totally take over games at times. now i look to Jones to do that which he hasnt yet but still for all the talk Nink gets around here you would think he owns all OLinemen. He simply doesnt. He plays the run great, and can get pressure at times. He's solid, but overhyped by some and underrated by others.

    I've always been on the Spikes train. he makes plays vs. the run. You know what you get with him. He was good. Too bad he will be gone this FA....



    I think he makes a ton of plays that don;t get recognized because they are not highligh espn plays. I also think the lack of int's is because we kept him so deep to prevent big plays which is something I wonder if we should conside changing. I would rather risk giving up the occasional big play then watch great QB's absolutely own the middle of the field and play clock by knifing us up like PM just did.

    I don't understand how Nink can be over hyped and under rated at the same time?

    Yeah Spikes is a bit of a knuckle head yet very good run defender, but BB planned accordingly as usual and moved up to get a better all around version in Hightower. 

    In regard to Chandler and Nink, I think if VW and Kelly or at least 1 of them were healthy it would have had a tremendous impact on their performances, which were already very good....

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    I think he makes a ton of plays that don;t get recognized because they are not highligh espn plays. I also think the lack of int's is because we kept him so deep to prevent big plays which is something I wonder if we should conside changing. I would rather risk giving up the occasional big play then watch great QB's absolutely own the middle of the field and play clock by knifing us up like PM just did.

     

    I don't understand how Nink can be over hyped and under rated at the same time?

    Yeah Spikes is a bit of a knuckle head yet very good run defender, but BB planned accordingly as usual and moved up to get a better all around version in Hightower. 

    In regard to Chandler and Nink, I think if VW and Kelly or at least 1 of them were healthy it would have had a tremendous impact on their performances, which were already very good....

    [/QUOTE]

    There's people on here that imo overrate Ninko, then others who underrate him.

    I think DMC is a little above average or solid. Rarely gets beat rarely out of postion but doesnt make plays. Not even looking for INTs. Lay some dudes out so they drop the ball. Like I said part of this is becuase Gregory sucks. Get a real SS and I think DMC's playmaking increases greatly.

    That is true regarding VW and TK. they would've beefed up the DL opening up one-on-one's for Ninko and Jones. Hopefully it happens this year

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?


    If you guys are looking to get the "big plays" then Ward over Mccourty is not the answer. In 4 season Ward has 350 tackles 3.5 sacks, 5 Int's and 5 FF's, he also missed 10 games for injury. 

    DMC in the same time has 320 tackles, 1 sack(free safety compared to ward being a strong safety) 7 FF's, and 15 Int's. He missed 3 games for injury. If you wanted to make ana argument that ward does the smaller things better I will also object as DMC is lauded for his intangibles.  He is also a team captain for a reason.

    I would live to see the combo of Ward at SS and DMC at FS, but simply saying saying Ward is better then DMC doesn't make any sense.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?


    Ward will get over 6 mil on the market and DMC 4 -5 tops. who does the NFL think is better player?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:


    Ward will get over 6 mil on the market and DMC 4 -5 tops. who does the NFL think is better player?



    God I hope so, because we will be paying DMC the 4to 5, but realistically Ward, Byrd and DMC will all be payed about the same. 

    Is it just your perception that Ward is better? Is it the eye test? I don't understand.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:


    Ward will get over 6 mil on the market and DMC 4 -5 tops. who does the NFL think is better player?



    God I hope so, because we will be paying DMC the 4to 5, but realistically Ward, Byrd and DMC will all be payed about the same. 

    Is it just your perception that Ward is better? Is it the eye test? I don't understand.



    Ward and DMC are totally different imo. you stated DMC had a better 'rank' than Thomas and Ward. Ward is a hitter, run spoort. DMC is just there. nothing special but nothing negative. He wont make the play to blow you away but he wont pi$s you off by getting beat deep. his rank may be good becuase he doesnt take the risks that Ward and Thomas may but where does that get our defense? no where. give up 3rd and longs, and chunk yardage to crap QBs alot. oh, but we dont get beat deep atleast.

    DMC is conservate likewise is our whole D. which isnt good. get a nasty safety back there to change it up. we have the players to be very good (whole front 7, good DB depth) just cut Gregory and find a real SS.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    I will repeat what has been said here before. DMC is currently asked to cover too much of the field. Give him adequat SS help and DMC again jumps to another level, with better ball hawking skills, more consistent over the top help. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I will repeat what has been said here before. DMC is currently asked to cover too much of the field. Give him adequat SS help and DMC again jumps to another level, with better ball hawking skills, more consistent over the top help. 




    thats exactly what I'm saying. I think he can become a playmaker if BB can bring in a legit SS so DMC can play a more natural, less responsible, FS

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I will repeat what has been said here before. DMC is currently asked to cover too much of the field. Give him adequat SS help and DMC again jumps to another level, with better ball hawking skills, more consistent over the top help. 




    thats exactly what I'm saying. I think he can become a playmaker if BB can bring in a legit SS so DMC can play a more natural, less responsible, FS



    Yes, I agree with both of you.

     
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    Re: how much to sign DMC?


    Definition of a homer :  "DMC is better than Earl Thomas and T.J. Ward"  LOL!

    Wow....True...Please, come down to earth man.

    DMC is limited. He sits back 20 yards and keeps team from scoring TDs over our heads. Great. Outside of that , he is average at everything. He is overmatched covering tight ends. He dropped 2 or 3 EASY pics at the end of the year that most safeties make. He gets dragged by fullbacks. He doesnt intimidate anyone over the middle. He didnt make any bone jarring hits to dislodge the ball or take any players out.

    Earl Thomas?? Well most experts said he could have been D.P.O.Y....but yea, he aint better than McCourty. Keep reading those stats man. I just watch games and I call it straight. I wouldnt choose McCourty first for resiging a safety. He actually would be pretty far down the list. He needs to go back to CB. Having 2 smallish, CB types has not helped anything. You liked watching Manning pick us apart down the field??

    You gotta watch more football dude.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    Definition of a homer :  "DMC is better than Earl Thomas and T.J. Ward"  LOL!

    Wow....True...Please, come down to earth man.

    DMC is limited. He sits back 20 yards and keeps team from scoring TDs over our heads. Great. Outside of that , he is average at everything. He is overmatched covering tight ends. He dropped 2 or 3 EASY pics at the end of the year that most safeties make. He gets dragged by fullbacks. He doesnt intimidate anyone over the middle. He didnt make any bone jarring hits to dislodge the ball or take any players out.

    Earl Thomas?? Well most experts said he could have been D.P.O.Y....but yea, he aint better than McCourty. Keep reading those stats man. I just watch games and I call it straight. I wouldnt choose McCourty first for resiging a safety. He actually would be pretty far down the list. He needs to go back to CB. Having 2 smallish, CB types has not helped anything. You liked watching Manning pick us apart down the field??

    You gotta watch more football dude.



    We'll see. If BB makes a Mccourty extension his priority then we know how he feels. Of course then you could just say BB doesn't know what he's doing and support your opinion. So in either case I guess you win.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    Definition of a homer :  "DMC is better than Earl Thomas and T.J. Ward"  LOL!

    Wow....True...Please, come down to earth man.

    DMC is limited. He sits back 20 yards and keeps team from scoring TDs over our heads. Great. Outside of that , he is average at everything. He is overmatched covering tight ends. He dropped 2 or 3 EASY pics at the end of the year that most safeties make. He gets dragged by fullbacks. He doesnt intimidate anyone over the middle. He didnt make any bone jarring hits to dislodge the ball or take any players out.

    Earl Thomas?? Well most experts said he could have been D.P.O.Y....but yea, he aint better than McCourty. Keep reading those stats man. I just watch games and I call it straight. I wouldnt choose McCourty first for resiging a safety. He actually would be pretty far down the list. He needs to go back to CB. Having 2 smallish, CB types has not helped anything. You liked watching Manning pick us apart down the field??

    You gotta watch more football dude.



    I guess the guys at profootballfocus.com should watch more football too.....even though they watch every play of the season. 

     

    2013 PFF All-Pro Team

     

    PFF Analysis Team | January 6, 2014

     

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    DEFENSE

     

    So the Texans lost a lot more games this year. You can’t blame that on Watt who surpassed his 2012 grade with an even better year that had less sacks, but more hits and hurries with more impact plays against the run. It was special, and so was the year of McCoy to top our defensive tackle rankings. His work against the run is a bit more style than substance at times, but he’s just too good for most guards rushing the passer. These two were consensus picks along with Suh on the second team, with Calais Campbell missing out by the odd vote in five due to the play of Casey.

    Second Team: Jurrell Casey (TEN) and Ndamukong Suh (DET)

     

    The spot which featured the most discussion. Semantics played a part with two-down players Brandon Mebane and Damon Harrison having fine years. But ultimately we wanted guys who played on every down and in every package and that meant Dareus got the nod and Poe was put on the second team.

    Second Team: Dontari Poe (KC)

     

    Quinn set a record with his  grade that was truly breathtaking. Many a tackle wasn’t just made to look bad, but made to look like they didn’t belong in the league with the speed and regularity of how often he beat them on his way to 91 quarterback disruptions. Mathis couldn’t match that kind of production but his habit of making big plays with less help on his defense was extremely impressive. On the second team, Houston, who led our 3-4 outside linebacker rankings despite missing time, was always in with Hardy just earning the nod over Cameron Wake.

    Second Team: Justin Houston (KC) and Greg Hardy (CAR)

     

    A tricky spot to decide. David was always in with his feverish playmaking really a joy to behold. His numbers really don’t do him justice with him earning positive grades in coverage, against the run and rushing the passer. That was the easy one but deciding the rest saw Willis, Bowman and Davis joined in the discussion with Vontaze Burfict, Luke Kuechly, Karlos Dansby, Derrick Johnson and Stephen Tulloch. Ultimately, Willis’ work in every phase of the game got him the start, while the playmaking of Bowman got him on the second team. Of the rest, the consistently excellent work of Davis in coverage was what just got him onto the team.

    Second Team: NaVorro Bowman (SF) and Thomas Davis (CAR)

     

    We had some discussions here, though not when it came to Grimes. The man who would give up no touchdowns and pick up 18 combined pass break-ups and interception was the value free agent signing this year. Finding the other starter was much harder with it being left to the deciding vote of an unnamed analyst that saw Revis get the nod over Sherman. The Seahawk is joined on the second team by Patrick Peterson who edged Keenan Lewis.

    Second Team: Richard Sherman (SEA) and Patrick Peterson (ARZ)

     

    McCourty wound up with our highest grade of the year, with his work in coverage the real standout element of his game. He was a unanimous selection over Thomas who we love when things go well, but can’t ignore when he misses a tackle or takes a bad angle with his all active style. Others getting serious consideration included Eric Weddle and Will Hill.

    Second Team: Earl Thomas (SEA)

     

    A new type of safety, Berry would often spend his time in the box to make him a fourth linebacker for the Chiefs in their dime package, while just as able to cover a tight end or back in man coverage or play the deep safety role. A truly complete player. On the second team the work of Whitner in coverage (a weakness heading into the year) got him the nod over T.J. Ward.

    Second Team: Donte Whitner (SF)

     

    If we’re going to have a slot receiver then we need a slot corner. In a heated discussion, the complete play of Mathieu — who played base downs as a safety and moved to the slot in the Cardinals’ nickel and dime packages — won out despite him missing time toward the end of the season. Harris makes the second team in large part due to his overall game, an area where Brandon Boykin missed out. Being so close to the action, we liked our slot cornerback to have a bigger impact on more areas than just coverage.

    Second Team: Chris Harris (DEN)

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    Well thats nice, they watched every play of the season. Did they watch in game time mode or still shots? All 22 film?  Look All I am saying is that I watch football. I cant speak for anyone esle. I know it, Ive coached it. (just so you know, Ive read this latest post from this site and they make no sense. They just state how Berry was the better more complete safety but gave the nod to Whitner???  Please explain this foolishness?

    If you can look at some stats that say McCourty is better than Earl, thats great....BUT you will never watch an NFL game of them playing and make that assesment so take it with a grain of salt., John Gruden knows more than pFF or whatever they are. He said Earl Thomas OR Chancellor could have been DPoY and noone EVER said that about Dmac. Also when you have a great D thats # 1 in the league, you can get overshadowed.

    I wont discuss with you all day. You have your opinion and I have mine. I just dont go to websites to See who is good. I watch GAMES for that. How you can watch Dmac be part of a D that got sliced and diced and then watch Seattle Dismantle that same team and come away with Dmac being great and better than Earl...Is beyond me but I digress, thats why humans are all different. Nothing wrong with that. Lets see how the Pats proceed with him and what his value is to THEM and see what kind of impacts he makes going forward. I wish he WAS Dynamic but he isnt. Let em' go back to CB where he doesnt have to be a hitter.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    Basically McCourty was great at DOING HIS JOB ....BUT his Job Never included making any plays. That is swell. They seem to think Earl making plays is a hindrance when he misses tackles (mcCourty does also) but I watched a bunch of Seattle games. I dont seem to recall a bunch of blown coverages or any TDs being thrown over the top. Sooo, I dont get it. Earl lives on the edge , yes. He flies up and knocks out ball carriers and sometimes misses but guess what?? He has his buddy Kam to clean up and in general they had the best secondary so how was it a problem with him missing some tackles and why dont they mention McCourtys missed tackles??   Hmmmmm.

    Sorry, I go by the eye test.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Basically McCourty was great at DOING HIS JOB ....BUT his Job Never included making any plays. That is swell. They seem to think Earl making plays is a hindrance when he misses tackles (mcCourty does also) but I watched a bunch of Seattle games. I dont seem to recall a bunch of blown coverages or any TDs being thrown over the top. Sooo, I dont get it. Earl lives on the edge , yes. He flies up and knocks out ball carriers and sometimes misses but guess what?? He has his buddy Kam to clean up and in general they had the best secondary so how was it a problem with him missing some tackles and why dont they mention McCourtys missed tackles??   Hmmmmm.

    Sorry, I go by the eye test.



    You think it might be a conspiracy to talk up McCourty? Maybe all the analysts are family members of the McCourty's?

     

    In Wilfork's absence, Devin McCourty has arguably become the Patriots' most respected defensive leader. McCourty provides the safety net at the back end of the defense; while Aqib Talib's man coverage skills are indispensable, McCourty's smarts and ball skills are the other prevailing factor allowing the Pats to play much more aggressive man coverage schemes this season.

    Next season is the final year on McCourty's contract, and he is probably the first priority in terms of players due for an extension. As the former first-rounder is still on his rookie deal, he comes at a bargain of just $920,000 in base salary. Adding in bonuses, his 2014 cap hit amounts to a meager $2.1 million, the 18th-highest on the roster.

    McCourty failed to make the Pro Bowl this year, but that is simply a product of the public not catching on to his newfound status as an elite safety. McCourty has the highest overall grade among all safeties this year at plus-18.7, and opposing quarterbacks have targeted the safety just 27 times in his 585 coverage snaps, a 21.7 cover snaps per targetrate that is sixth-best among safeties.

    As a result, the Pats will likely have to pony up for someone who is already one of the league's best free safeties. Kansas City's Eric Berry is the top-paid safety in the league, and Berry's contract runs six years for $50 million, which amounts to a cap hit of $11.6 million next year. The Pats are more likely to start the negotiating around Eric Weddle's contract numbers, which come in at six years for $40 million. 

    But McCourty is one of the true embodiments of what the Patriots look for in a player, and it's hard to imagine him getting away, especially at his age.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    But McCourty didn't get all those "big plays" that OG and Joe are talking about like all the other top safeties did, and if stats are more importabt then intagbles then by all means let's use them....

    Eric Berry has 250 tackles 8 int's and 5.5 sacks and 2 FF's and 29 pass deflections in his 3 year career as he makes 50 million dollars.

    TJ Ward has 350 tackles 3.5 sacks 5 FF's and 5 int's, 24 pass deflections in his 4 year career

    Earl Thomas has 340 tackles 0 sacks, 5 FF's and 15 int's, 31 pass deflections in his 4 year career

    jarius Byrd has 350 tackles 3 sacks 11 FF's and 22 int's, and 33 pass deflections in his 5 year career(clearly the best "stats" of the bunch but has 1 more season then all others)

    Devin McCourty has 320 tackles 1.5 sacks 7 FF's and 15 int's, 52 pass deflections in his 4 year career. 

    D-Mac has the 2nd most FF's(though 1 year less then the leader Byrd), the 2nd most INT's(though 1 year less then the leader Byrd) and the most passes defensed, 20 more then Byrd in 1 less year. 

    But OG uses the eye test and he coached football so maybe he knows more then everybody else.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    DMC is good True. No doubting that, he's top tier in the NFL. But if you sit here and say He's better than Earl Thomas you are defining homer. Sorry. Stats are nice and Nink's stats are nice too but I'd take at least 10-15 DEs over him

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    But McCourty didn't get all those "big plays" that OG and Joe are talking about like all the other top safeties did, and if stats are more importabt then intagbles then by all means let's use them....

    Eric Berry has 250 tackles 8 int's and 5.5 sacks and 2 FF's and 29 pass deflections in his 3 year career as he makes 50 million dollars.

    TJ Ward has 350 tackles 3.5 sacks 5 FF's and 5 int's, 24 pass deflections in his 4 year career

    Earl Thomas has 340 tackles 0 sacks, 5 FF's and 15 int's, 31 pass deflections in his 4 year career

    jarius Byrd has 350 tackles 3 sacks 11 FF's and 22 int's, and 33 pass deflections in his 5 year career(clearly the best "stats" of the bunch but has 1 more season then all others)

    Devin McCourty has 320 tackles 1.5 sacks 7 FF's and 15 int's, 52 pass deflections in his 4 year career. 

    D-Mac has the 2nd most FF's(though 1 year less then the leader Byrd), the 2nd most INT's(though 1 year less then the leader Byrd) and the most passes defensed, 20 more then Byrd in 1 less year. 

    But OG uses the eye test and he coached football so maybe he knows more then everybody else.




    You can't compare DMC to those other guys with those stats.  He was a corner his first 2 seasons.  Corners always have more PD than safeties for example.  It would be better if you looked at the past 2 seasons.  He'd probably still compare relatively well and it would be a better comp imo.  Just a thought.  For the record I think DMC is a great Patriot.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Basically McCourty was great at DOING HIS JOB ....BUT his Job Never included making any plays. That is swell. They seem to think Earl making plays is a hindrance when he misses tackles (mcCourty does also) but I watched a bunch of Seattle games. I dont seem to recall a bunch of blown coverages or any TDs being thrown over the top. Sooo, I dont get it. Earl lives on the edge , yes. He flies up and knocks out ball carriers and sometimes misses but guess what?? He has his buddy Kam to clean up and in general they had the best secondary so how was it a problem with him missing some tackles and why dont they mention McCourtys missed tackles??   Hmmmmm.

    Sorry, I go by the eye test.



    You think it might be a conspiracy to talk up McCourty? Maybe all the analysts are family members of the McCourty's?

     

    In Wilfork's absence, Devin McCourty has arguably become the Patriots' most respected defensive leader. McCourty provides the safety net at the back end of the defense; while Aqib Talib's man coverage skills are indispensable, McCourty's smarts and ball skills are the other prevailing factor allowing the Pats to play much more aggressive man coverage schemes this season.

    Next season is the final year on McCourty's contract, and he is probably the first priority in terms of players due for an extension. As the former first-rounder is still on his rookie deal, he comes at a bargain of just $920,000 in base salary. Adding in bonuses, his 2014 cap hit amounts to a meager $2.1 million, the 18th-highest on the roster.

    McCourty failed to make the Pro Bowl this year, but that is simply a product of the public not catching on to his newfound status as an elite safety. McCourty has the highest overall grade among all safeties this year at plus-18.7, and opposing quarterbacks have targeted the safety just 27 times in his 585 coverage snaps, a 21.7 cover snaps per targetrate that is sixth-best among safeties.

    As a result, the Pats will likely have to pony up for someone who is already one of the league's best free safeties. Kansas City's Eric Berry is the top-paid safety in the league, and Berry's contract runs six years for $50 million, which amounts to a cap hit of $11.6 million next year. The Pats are more likely to start the negotiating around Eric Weddle's contract numbers, which come in at six years for $40 million. 

    But McCourty is one of the true embodiments of what the Patriots look for in a player, and it's hard to imagine him getting away, especially at his age.




    You fail to realize they are talking about what McCourty did on THIS D when Wilfork went out. Of course he looked on OUR D which is bad. Would he even start if he played for Seattle??  NO way....lol

    Sorry I wont comment on Dmac anymore. What happens is people think I am trying to slight him. I am not. I am slighting BB for making him a S. Just like it not Ninks fault he is a starting DE who is undersized and unathletic with Noone rotating with him.

    Its not McCourtys fault that BB asks him to cover bigger tight ends. Not McCourtys fault that he paired him with ANOTHER converted CB who gets run over and has no range.

    I mean put the blame where you want but dont come here just because its a pats board and expect everyone to drool over average players man. I set my goals high in everything I do and if we are gonna PAY for a safety, It Def. wouldnt be a converted CB who cant cover tight ends or tackle big backs. BB likes to run a myriad of defenses under the disguise of ONE look. Meaning if McCourty is one on one with a tight end, he STILL has to sit back 15 yards and give illusion of playing cover 2 until the snap. This puts him at an a disadvantage because he can let the tight end gain speed and get up on him and get into his route without McCourty being able to get close and jam.

    Dont believe me? Well why did they have McCourty up close playing man to man on Julius Thomas in the AFFCG? Because BB knew he would get ate up playing back and disguising man coverage so he played 3 safeties and let McCourty get in Thomas' face. See this is an example of ME using MY football knowledge to make an accurate assesment. You have to go to websites to use OTHERS knowledge and you are only as good as the people YOU quote. I Stand on MY OWN TWO Bro... Thats the difference.

    Just stick to discussing with Rusty and you will be fine.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Would he even start if he played for Seattle?? 



    What does this even mean?  Would he start over Earl Thomas?  Probably not given that Earl was  the only safety in the NFL that was rated higher than DMC (1st team vs 2nd team all-pro).  If you're suggesting he wouldn't start if he replaced Earl then you are kidding yourself.  If you're point was the first one it is a silly point to make.  Would Russell Wilson start if he played for NE?  Of course not and that's not a knock on Wilson.

     
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