how much to sign DMC?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Would he even start if he played for Seattle?? 

     



    What does this even mean?  Would he start over Earl Thomas?  Probably not given that Earl was  the only safety in the NFL that was rated higher than DMC (1st team vs 2nd team all-pro).  If you're suggesting he wouldn't start if he replaced Earl then you are kidding yourself.  If you're point was the first one it is a silly point to make.  Would Russell Wilson start if he played for NE?  Of course not and that's not a knock on Wilson.

     



    well the article True posted had McCourty ranked higher than Earl Thomas. Thats the whole purpose of this debate. Hard to just come in and ask about my comments without knowing the history of the debate. I will say it once more. I dont have a problem with Dmac as a human being. I dont like having 2 converted CBs playing safety. Last time this year everyone loved Dmac. Most still do except NOW they agree they we need a real SS after watching Kam back there. Earl can cover the back end same as McCourty but also can intimidate, tackle and get INTs.

    I am only debating with True because he loves to post website articles saying THis guy is good and that aint good but HE cant even tell me the reasons that a guy is better or not......but sais my knowledge and coaching are irrelevent. Ijs use you own analysis if its so obvious. ALL i get back is Stats but NO Evaluation.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    But McCourty didn't get all those "big plays" that OG and Joe are talking about like all the other top safeties did, and if stats are more importabt then intagbles then by all means let's use them....

    Eric Berry has 250 tackles 8 ints and 5.5 sacks and 2 FF's and 29 pass deflections in his 3 year career as he makes 50 million dollars.

    TJ Ward has 350 tackles 3.5 sacks 5 FF's and 5 int's, 24 pass deflections in his 4 year career

    Earl Thomas has 340 tackles 0 sacks, 5 FF's and 15 int's, 31 pass deflections in his 4 year career

    jarius Byrd has 350 tackles 3 sacks 11 FF's and 22 int's, and 33 pass deflections in his 5 year career(clearly the best "stats" of the bunch but has 1 more season then all others)

    Devin McCourty has 320 tackles 1.5 sacks 7 FF's and 15 int's, 52 pass deflections in his 4 year career. 

    D-Mac has the 2nd most FF's(though 1 year less then the leader Byrd), the 2nd most INT's(though 1 year less then the leader Byrd) and the most passes defensed, 20 more then Byrd in 1 less year. 

    But OG uses the eye test and he coached football so maybe he knows more then everybody else.

     




    You can't compare DMC to those other guys with those stats.  He was a corner his first 2 seasons.  Corners always have more PD than safeties for example.  It would be better if you looked at the past 2 seasons.  He'd probably still compare relatively well and it would be a better comp imo.  Just a thought.  For the record I think DMC is a great Patriot.

     



    I thought the purpose was to compare the careers of these players, but by all means. I thought the impact on the team would be represented no matter where they lined up.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to cellucci's comment:

    dmc is a below average safety



    We could make him an above average safety if we had a pass rush.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Would he even start if he played for Seattle?? 

     



    What does this even mean?  Would he start over Earl Thomas?  Probably not given that Earl was  the only safety in the NFL that was rated higher than DMC (1st team vs 2nd team all-pro).  If you're suggesting he wouldn't start if he replaced Earl then you are kidding yourself.  If you're point was the first one it is a silly point to make.  Would Russell Wilson start if he played for NE?  Of course not and that's not a knock on Wilson.

     



    well the article True posted had McCourty ranked higher than Earl Thomas. Thats the whole purpose of this debate. Hard to just come in and ask about my comments without knowing the history of the debate. I will say it once more. I dont have a problem with Dmac as a human being. I dont like having 2 converted CBs playing safety. Last time this year everyone loved Dmac. Most still do except NOW they agree they we need a real SS after watching Kam back there. Earl can cover the back end same as McCourty but also can intimidate, tackle and get INTs.

    I am only debating with True because he loves to post website articles saying THis guy is good and that aint good but HE cant even tell me the reasons that a guy is better or not......but sais my knowledge and coaching are irrelevent. Ijs use you own analysis if its so obvious. ALL i get back is Stats but NO Evaluation.



    No, the purpose of this debate was to enighten you that McCourty is one heck of a player and imo will be the priority to extend him this off season. I noted a prominent football site as chosing DMC over Earl Thomas(though Thomas was their 2nd team) to give you perspective outside of the box you seem to live in. I didn't offer stats until you made it about stats, saying he doesn't make any big plays which I owuld assume to mean, sacks, FF's, interceptions, and passes defensed. I didn't say it, you did.

    Maybe take a step back, read what I posted and then tell me why Belichick made a mistake moving DMC to FS when most analaysts say he is at the very least a top 3 safety in the league(all safety positions). 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Would he even start if he played for Seattle?? 

     



    What does this even mean?  Would he start over Earl Thomas?  Probably not given that Earl was  the only safety in the NFL that was rated higher than DMC (1st team vs 2nd team all-pro).  If you're suggesting he wouldn't start if he replaced Earl then you are kidding yourself.  If you're point was the first one it is a silly point to make.  Would Russell Wilson start if he played for NE?  Of course not and that's not a knock on Wilson.

     



    well the article True posted had McCourty ranked higher than Earl Thomas. Thats the whole purpose of this debate. Hard to just come in and ask about my comments without knowing the history of the debate. I will say it once more. I dont have a problem with Dmac as a human being. I dont like having 2 converted CBs playing safety. Last time this year everyone loved Dmac. Most still do except NOW they agree they we need a real SS after watching Kam back there. Earl can cover the back end same as McCourty but also can intimidate, tackle and get INTs.

    I am only debating with True because he loves to post website articles saying THis guy is good and that aint good but HE cant even tell me the reasons that a guy is better or not......but sais my knowledge and coaching are irrelevent. Ijs use you own analysis if its so obvious. ALL i get back is Stats but NO Evaluation.



    No, the purpose of this debate was to enighten you that McCourty is one heck of a player and imo will be the priority to extend him this off season. I noted a prominent football site as chosing DMC over Earl Thomas(though Thomas was their 2nd team) to give you perspective outside of the box you seem to live in. I didn't offer stats until you made it about stats, saying he doesn't make any big plays which I owuld assume to mean, sacks, FF's, interceptions, and passes defensed. I didn't say it, you did.

    Maybe take a step back, read what I posted and then tell me why Belichick made a mistake moving DMC to FS when most analaysts say he is at the very least a top 3 safety in the league(all safety positions). 




    I dont like stats to prove a player is good because good players do things that dont make stat sheets. For example...If a WR comes across the middle and gets blasted, its a pass deflection right?  So you dont know the impact. Did he just break up a pass or actually knock the snot out of someone?  Ask Crabtree if there is a difference. He is the one that got alligator arms after the Kam hit. Can you recall the last time you saw a WR get alligator arms playing against OUR D?  Dont worry, I will wait while you comb the interwebs.   DMC is a great patriot. This we agree on.

    I like Dmac. I loved him his rookie year where he made all pro. To me the real reason he moved to safety was because ours werent good. I always thought Dmac could remain a CB but his issues were trying to play up close in a press but not jamming his man which put him in a trail position off the bat which is good with over the top help but the Pats tried to play Dmac like a Revis after his stellar rookie campagn and it failed due to bad technique. Now if you know the Asante story, you will know he was let go because he refused to play press of any sort. He liked sitting back and reading the QB but gave up yards underneath. Thats why I dont get it cuz to this day, WE STILL ALLOW EVERYTHING UNDERNEATH so Asante was perfect.

    So again. I like Dmac. He should have stayed at CB and worked on his weaknesses BUT we had a need at safety. Just like Meriweather did for 2 years, McCourty gets noticed playing for the Pats.. Since the only thing you can do is tell me about his superficical accolades, I take it you CANT point out how he is great on the field...cuz he aint. He is servicable. Consider Rodney was a SS but could cover ANY TE. McCourty does not, his tackling has got worse since rookie year.(eye test again) and He Drops easy pics. Maybe he will grow into it but he can only get so big and I wouldnt pay him based on what he MAY develop into. Thats MY assesment based on MY eyes and knowledge. Now tell me something YOU know True....Not some article

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Would he even start if he played for Seattle?? 

     



    What does this even mean?  Would he start over Earl Thomas?  Probably not given that Earl was  the only safety in the NFL that was rated higher than DMC (1st team vs 2nd team all-pro).  If you're suggesting he wouldn't start if he replaced Earl then you are kidding yourself.  If you're point was the first one it is a silly point to make.  Would Russell Wilson start if he played for NE?  Of course not and that's not a knock on Wilson.

     



    well the article True posted had McCourty ranked higher than Earl Thomas. Thats the whole purpose of this debate. Hard to just come in and ask about my comments without knowing the history of the debate. I will say it once more. I dont have a problem with Dmac as a human being. I dont like having 2 converted CBs playing safety. Last time this year everyone loved Dmac. Most still do except NOW they agree they we need a real SS after watching Kam back there. Earl can cover the back end same as McCourty but also can intimidate, tackle and get INTs.

    I am only debating with True because he loves to post website articles saying THis guy is good and that aint good but HE cant even tell me the reasons that a guy is better or not......but sais my knowledge and coaching are irrelevent. Ijs use you own analysis if its so obvious. ALL i get back is Stats but NO Evaluation.



    No, the purpose of this debate was to enighten you that McCourty is one heck of a player and imo will be the priority to extend him this off season. I noted a prominent football site as chosing DMC over Earl Thomas(though Thomas was their 2nd team) to give you perspective outside of the box you seem to live in. I didn't offer stats until you made it about stats, saying he doesn't make any big plays which I owuld assume to mean, sacks, FF's, interceptions, and passes defensed. I didn't say it, you did.

    Maybe take a step back, read what I posted and then tell me why Belichick made a mistake moving DMC to FS when most analaysts say he is at the very least a top 3 safety in the league(all safety positions). 




    I dont like stats to prove a player is good because good players do things that dont make stat sheets. For example...If a WR comes across the middle and gets blasted, its a pass deflection right?  So you dont know the impact. Did he just break up a pass or actually knock the snot out of someone?  Ask Crabtree if there is a difference. He is the one that got alligator arms after the Kam hit. Can you recall the last time you saw a WR get alligator arms playing against OUR D?  Dont worry, I will wait while you comb the interwebs.   DMC is a great patriot. This we agree on.

    I like Dmac. I loved him his rookie year where he made all pro. To me the real reason he moved to safety was because ours werent good. I always thought Dmac could remain a CB but his issues were trying to play up close in a press but not jamming his man which put him in a trail position off the bat which is good with over the top help but the Pats tried to play Dmac like a Revis after his stellar rookie campagn and it failed due to bad technique. Now if you know the Asante story, you will know he was let go because he refused to play press of any sort. He liked sitting back and reading the QB but gave up yards underneath. Thats why I dont get it cuz to this day, WE STILL ALLOW EVERYTHING UNDERNEATH so Asante was perfect.

    So again. I like Dmac. He should have stayed at CB and worked on his weaknesses BUT we had a need at safety. Just like Meriweather did for 2 years, McCourty gets noticed playing for the Pats.. Since the only thing you can do is tell me about his superficical accolades, I take it you CANT point out how he is great on the field...cuz he aint. He is servicable. Consider Rodney was a SS but could cover ANY TE. McCourty does not, his tackling has got worse since rookie year.(eye test again) and He Drops easy pics. Maybe he will grow into it but he can only get so big and I wouldnt pay him based on what he MAY develop into. Thats MY assesment based on MY eyes and knowledge. Now tell me something YOU know True....Not some article


    It sounds like your knowledge needs some knowledge, and Rodney was my favorite Pat but he was servicable at covering TEs. DMC is one of the best in the league at covering side line to side line, he is good in run support and gets his hands in front of passes. I am not a coach, but i played one on Madden.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?


    DMC struggles vs. TEs.

    can cover sideline to sideline but struggles vs. TE

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    It sounds like your knowledge needs some knowledge, and Rodney was my favorite Pat but he was servicable at covering TEs. DMC is one of the best in the league at covering side line to side line, he is good in run support and gets his hands in front of passes. I am not a coach, but i played one on Madden.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, thats where the debate ends. If you cant be truthful with yourself because of a debate about a player than I cant carry on. You are telling me my knowledge needs knowledge...lol

    If R.Harrison is servicable, then McCourty is horrible. One is over matched every time he lines up and the other used to bait Qbs to throw at him....in playoff games. So while we are hear waiting for McCourty to make a play in the playoffs you can say Rodney was servicable.??? 4 pics in ONE playoff run. A pick six on Ben Roethlisberger when he BAITED him while covering Heath Miller and took it back 87 yards for a score. How about Another playoff game vs Manning and the Colts and Rodney pics off Manning in the endzone after a long drive....Baiting again while covering Pollard. You better HOPE and WISH and PRAY that McCourty one day can be in the same sentence. Just like Rusty you disrespect past greats for current average players.

    I like McCourty but paying a bunch of cash for him in this Defense is dumb. # 1 because we need  pass rush. # 2 He isnt a playmaker in this D because he cant be. Let him play CB again.  It would be a waste to get ANY FS at a large number. Use it on a SS so we can get some Attitude back there.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSJRmZTb6M0

    Look at his rookie highlights. This is the best he played. He played CB w/passion, excitement. We need to get him back to playing CB. He was a very good one. He is a good safety but thats not where his value is IMO.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: how much to sign DMC?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    It sounds like your knowledge needs some knowledge, and Rodney was my favorite Pat but he was servicable at covering TEs. DMC is one of the best in the league at covering side line to side line, he is good in run support and gets his hands in front of passes. I am not a coach, but i played one on Madden.




    Ok, thats where the debate ends. If you cant be truthful with yourself because of a debate about a player than I cant carry on. You are telling me my knowledge needs knowledge...lol

    If R.Harrison is servicable, then McCourty is horrible. One is over matched every time he lines up and the other used to bait Qbs to throw at him....in playoff games. So while we are hear waiting for McCourty to make a play in the playoffs you can say Rodney was servicable.??? 4 pics in ONE playoff run. A pick six on Ben Roethlisberger when he BAITED him while covering Heath Miller and took it back 87 yards for a score. How about Another playoff game vs Manning and the Colts and Rodney pics off Manning in the endzone after a long drive....Baiting again while covering Pollard. You better HOPE and WISH and PRAY that McCourty one day can be in the same sentence. Just like Rusty you disrespect past greats for current average players.

    I like McCourty but paying a bunch of cash for him in this Defense is dumb. # 1 because we need  pass rush. # 2 He isnt a playmaker in this D because he cant be. Let him play CB again.  It would be a waste to get ANY FS at a large number. Use it on a SS so we can get some Attitude back there.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSJRmZTb6M0

    Look at his rookie highlights. This is the best he played. He played CB w/passion, excitement. We need to get him back to playing CB. He was a very good one. He is a good safety but thats not where his value is IMO.

     



    Look, I loved Rodney, probably the best instincts of a football player I've seen, and 03 and 04 he was great and could cover TE's when needed but he also played in the box and supported the run often. After 04 he was probably 33 years old and had trouble staying with people for the next 4 years. 

    I don't understand your position on why DMac should be moved back to corner? He is acknowledged as one of the best safeties in the league except by a few here who have said he "sucks" or whaveter. I know you are not saying he sucks, but you are turning a blind eye to how good of a safety he is, and I'm sure he would be a great corner too, but it is not where BB needs him. I do remember he used to have trouble turning his head to the ball when covering receivers but considering he is usually at the point of the play I am sure that is a technique that BB can coach. I don't care where he plays but at least recognize the great job he has done at FS.

 
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