How Would You Beat the Pats?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

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    [QUOTE]Start at the very beginning and do a Bob Kraft.  Land a good GM and the league's most expensive talent scout team.  Trade draft picks forward at a profit.  Spot ten potential winning quarterbacks available for a sixth round pick.  Cycle through all sorts of JAGs all year until you find good players.  Don't be afraid to cut injured or aged veterans.  Work the draft and the salary cap hard.  Treat your players like royalty, and don't be the least bit stingy if you have to give out rings.  Build new facilities to order. Identify the best young coach available, land him at any cost, and keep him at a pretty stiff cost too.  Make it clear that he'll be graded on the curve, based on the talent he's been given, not straight on the number of wins.  Build a diverse group of 53 players.  Get regular BJGE backs and Woodheads.  Get huge blocking TEs like Crumpler and Gronk, who can really catch.  Get speedballs like Tate and Price.  Get guys with lateral acceleration like Welker and Edelman.  Don't undersell experience but do look for bargains (Branch).  Get seriously strong and mobile pulling guards who play the pass rush.  On defense get some huge run-stopping linemen and some rush specialists too.  Get a big nickel back.  Draft really competent guys in the back seven.  Get guys with gorilla arms.  Borrow all sorts of good tactics from around the NFL, but especially from winners.  Often that means from the Patriots.  Do what your team does best, but have a plan B espcially when playing the Patriots because they take away what another team does best.  The Patriots play worse after being hit with gimmick plays.  Stock up on them.  Haul them all out of storage from last July.  Change your team's operational systems as radically as you dare, if beating the Patriots is all that counts. Nobody in the NFL has done all of this very well, so the Pats don't need to worry that much. 
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]


    this is a great post... because it is exactly what they do...so to speak... and protoges and other teams have tried to copy it... see mangenius, mcdaniel, kc, and now atlanta...some with success some not so much...  but they are all missing that special ingrediant to make it all go....   hopefully he is really enjoying himself and doesnt see a need to change anything anytime soon...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    Don't turn the ball over; force some turnovers and keep Brady off the field as long as possible. This is why San Diego would be a scary opponent with Tolbert running the ball; same goes with Atlanta and Turner. Get Brady out of the pocket or sack him. It's proven that if Brady gets 3.5 seconds in the pocket your team will get torched all day long. People point to the 2007 Giants as the blue print to beat the Pats, but a) you need the personel to pull it off b) just because it worked against the 07 Pats doesn't necessarily mean it will work on the 2010 Pats; a few screens mixed in with some traps and all of sudden you are facing the 2010 Pats offense not the 07 offense. Short hitches and slants are tough to defend and the Pats current offense is more balanced.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LondonPatsFan. Show LondonPatsFan's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    You can't beat the Pats!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    @ Paul_K: Build a diverse group of 53 players.  Get regular BJGE backs and Woodheads.  Get huge blocking TEs like Crumpler and Gronk, who can really catch.  Get speedballs like Tate and Price.  Get guys with lateral acceleration like Welker and Edelman.  Don't undersell experience but do look for bargains (Branch).  Get seriously strong and mobile pulling guards who play the pass rush.  On defense get some huge run-stopping linemen and some rush specialists too.  Get a big nickel back.  Draft really competent guys in the back seven.  Get guys with gorilla arms..... 

    This is not how BB built the team it is what he has now. There are a few teams out there with top talent TE's and you need a better than average O-Line to open the holes for the likes of BJGE - never mind a guy like Peterson.

    More teams should probably go small/speedy at WR - but most still favor the big guys. This is also true of the CB's...

    Overall, the Pats are strong in the trenches especially now that Mankins is back.

    Even in 2011, the Pats need to focus on rebuilding the O and D lines. Ty Warren, Gerrard Warren, Stephen Neal, Matt Light, Logan Mankins could all be gone....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JoeFoyFan. Show JoeFoyFan's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    Accuse them of cheating - just ask John Tomase!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    Great, thoughtful, detailed posts by P-mike, patsman2, patslifer, artistformerlynick, Paul-K, chrisakawoody, Laz and Bellino.

    The only thing I can add is that anyone who attempts to beat the Pats cannot mentally force themselves to be in a shootout or psychologically force themselves to score as many points as the Pats. Sanchez and Cutler both lost their mental edge, trying to keep up with the Pats and forced things and thus made a lot of mistakes that turned into turnovers. Not only did the Pats beat them but they beat themselves badly.  Of course, this is easier said than done.

    Also, what scares me is how confident we are as fans that the Pats cannot be beat. If the team begins to feel as we they will be in trouble. A disciplined smash mouth 2 pronged running attack like Jacobs and Bradshaw of the Giants or Charles and Jones of the Chiefs could inflict some damage.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    [QUOTE]I agree somewhat with Patsman2 on how the Giants did it in 2007. Having the ability to create pressure with your front 4 is a good start. The problem for these type of teams is that we have 3 legit TE's who can stay back and help block, and we run much less of a spread offense (which is highly susceptible to this type of attack).   Looking at the the Pats personnel and multiple configurations of how we could attack, I don't think there exists really a blueprint to stop this team. I think the Cleveland game was as probably as close as you could get to it, but I also think the Pats were completely off that game...which is another way to stop the Pats..hope they mess up and can't find a rythm.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    They we're not off but simply got beat. I just tell it the way it is. Just like they handed Sexy Rexy is head on a platter for his smarmy remarks.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    Forfeit is the correct answer to this.  I wouldn't want me and my team to get embarrassed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    [QUOTE]NYC!!!!! how would you beat the red sox???
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]
    Better question. If they ever meet, how do the Sox beat the Phillies?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Would You Beat the Pats? : Oh, sure... "We're only gonna score 14 points? Okay."
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]
    That was the line of the year. Better yet, 'pride goeth before destruction and the haughty spirit before the fall'.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Would You Beat the Pats? : For what it's worth, that's exactly what Brady said on WEEI the other day. He said other teams know this but the problem is 95% of teams don't have that kind personnel to make that happen.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]
    But beware of the other 5%.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    [QUOTE]Man-to-man coverage. Seldom blitz.  Use a 3-4 front with a speedy pass rushing LB or safety hitting the strong side at Light. So going for the coverage sacks. Brady seems to perform worse when he has not open receiver.  He picks apart zone. Run the ball outside, use screens and do the short passes as much as possible to keep Brady from getting the ball. Pass to your tallest targets in the red zone.   Adjust, adjust, adjust.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]
    I believe that is the correct formula. Even better with an occasional 4-3 with a blitzing LB up the middle.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Prophet76. Show Prophet76's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    Snazzy... the Pats were completely flat against the Browns! Gronkowski who's been really reliable had a terrible game, mental errors on special teams, fumbles, just a flat out BAD game!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

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    [QUOTE]Snazzy... the Pats were completely flat against the Browns! Gronkowski who's been really reliable had a terrible game, mental errors on special teams, fumbles, just a flat out BAD game!
    Posted by prophet[/QUOTE]

    ALL:

    ~First, as a quick change too my original post on the page, I forget to make the correction to whom was NE's NT in that Browns game; It wasn't Gerrard Warren @ NT, but Myron Pryor @ 6'1 and 310lbs at NT with G Warren/B Deadrick on the weakside and V Wilfork on the strongside of the 3 man D-Line.  Point is, for the sake of not having enough adequate sized 3-4 DEs, in the sake of attempting to collapse the oppossing Offense's pocket on at least 1 side of the offense, BB ended up badly outbalancing his Defense vs the power running game  on that weakside-weakside-center of his Defensive unit...  Yet, by the very following week, by reshifting VW to NT again, repositioning his 2 ILBs-standard SILB spot moved to WILB, while standard WILB spot moved to SILB, AND even goin' 1 further by shifting his 2 CBs too, the far more physical McCourty moved to weakside side of the Defense (except on certain passing plays) while the far less physical D Butler/K Arrington tandem goes to strongside (with NE's best coverage Safety helping their side out), New England DID correct this...

    I absolutely and completely guarentee you ALL, that IF NE replayed the game TO-day, it would be an amazingly different outcome in light of PRECISELY how Belichick perfectly & pretty ingeniously RE-balanced his Defensive alignment whilst still not forsaking other aspects of NE's Defensive game (like passing d).  
         See prophet, NE did lose that game, But it was BECAUSE NE initially fell behind & STILL had no counter to Cleveland moving up and down the field while chewing great time off the clock and wearing down NE's Defense...  Thus, NE really DID become frustrated attempting to play from a 2 score deficit from the time when the opening 1st quarter of the game wasn't yet complete... 

    There ya go...

    Oh, Ya wanna BEAT NE, right
    ?
    SEE then, "The Art of War." 
         From a simple tactician's standpoint, You'd beat NE in the same way you'd wanna beat ANY extremely highly successful opponent your facing:  Gameplan EVERYthing ya got into hoping to find their BEST weakness.  Then, exploit it; Exploit RIGHT FROM Second #1...THIS is your ONLY hope.  Do NOT in any way, shape OR form, SAVE your great gameplan for the critical deciding moment of the battle...  That'll work when facing almost EVERY Single other opponent...but NOT an extremely successful opponent, whom has tasted victory & winning so very often now.  It will not work on facing the current NE Patriots.  To beat NE right now, you'd have ta hit 'em with exactness, preciseness, and surgical precision from again, SECOND #1...  Bloody 'em, that's all ya gotta do; Just inflict ANY sorta wound on them...  You won't get a total victory quick...but you're not lookin' for that.  Your lookin' simply to get an early and just adequate enough lead...a small piercing wound...  Then finally, you place Each & ALL your subsequent strength into the rest of the battle, Towards doing 1 thing ONLY:  Holding On.  Prevent, Prevent, Prevent...your 1 hope.  Your single hope is to wound them from instant 1, then playing smashmouth physical after that; Points don't matter...your 1 prayer is that IF you offensively wound this opponent UNused to losing as early as you can, then just hangin' on  by placin' all your physical might onto playin' tough, center balanced defensively oriented smash-smash-smash, hit everyone in sight, care not about adding to that lead, care more about simply smashing into everyone (then stepping on them while on the ground, then probably jumping into the pile as well, and biting them, too)...  YOUR ONE GOAL: After that surgically precise wounding...?  Frustrate them.  Hopefully they'll wear down, make d#mb moves, or even some errors in their game...

    ~~~~

    ~
    So there ya have it ALLLaz, as usual, has solved the current problem with ingeniousness...  I've successfully gone about figuring out the manner that You'd like to go about facing AND beating, The NE Patriots.  
      So alright, As to the exact numbers, elementals, players, plays, and even basic gameday, well-Everything...Let someone else figure that stuff out.  In my mind, it's incidental...  Shoot, I ain't doin' ALL the work, And CERTAINLY none of the dirty work (that's what I tell my job interviewer too).  Jesus, are You CRAZY!?!  I'm a FREAKIN' Genius, like Einstein...I work on problem solving & fantastic theories...Krist almighty, let someone else actually prove the st#pid thing or put it to practical or actual use=NOT My Job.  I don't clean toilets people...I CAN give you the very Best method on Planet Earth on How You'd Go About cleaning and facing the toilet challenge...  BUT "Cleanin' 'Em", hahah ahhh, Ya lol,...ain't happenin', not in this lifetime.  That's for indentured servants & m#rons; I simply offer advice folks...And It IS and will prove TO BE, the very best advice alive...  Here's the equation fellas And it IS correct, betch're life on it...ya can take the time to actually solve it by putting the precise numbers in it, I mean I don't really care 1 way or another personally- I'm Right, I Know it, alll that matters.  Ya wanna DEFINATELY prove it in practice?  Fine, I don't give a sh#t...ta me, I just look at it as a waste'a time, when I already know it's correct.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

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    [QUOTE]The 2007 Giants had the blueprint and it still works today.  Just not many teams have the personal to pull it off.  On defense you have to be able to pressure brady with just the front 4.  The offense is much more a timing offense then anything now so I agree with Rodney you have to play man to man and jam the recievers and mess up the timing.  You cannot play zone against Brady he will find the holes. On offense be able to run run run.  Just like when Manning was at his best, the best way to stop em is keep em off the field.  Along with the run short passes and over the middle.  There is still a huge hole in the middle of the pats d in their zone 10 to 15 yards middle of field. Lastly don't turn the ball over. That would be my game plan.  Easy to say, harder to execute.
    Posted by Patsman2[/QUOTE]

    Remember that Faulk went down early after a cheep shot to the leg. As Brady's safety valve getting him out was esential to the Giants plan.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Would You Beat the Pats? : Remember that Faulk went down early after a cheep shot to the leg. As Brady's safety valve getting him out was esential to the Giants plan.
    Posted by Evil2010[/QUOTE]

    See, THIS is exactly what I'm talkin' about here (previous post)... 
         From The NY Giants perspective:  IF essential to your Giants Defensive Gameplan IS-Having your DEs go wide around the ends, while sending your 2 interior DTs spearheading like demons in he!! by shootin' the gaps through the interior of the Patriots's Offensive Line, without any hesitancy or care in the world that NE will, can, or has the ability to counter this gameplan by the standard technique of using an RB in the running game, who can keep those spearheading DTs even minorly honest in their approach of gap-shooting, BY having ANY decent RB who can make it through the interior of the now vacant D-Line by their aggressiveness to simply collapse the passing pocket when that RB either runs past them inside, or has the hands to exploit a small screen pass from their vacated D-center area...So, EACH & ALL of NE's good-sized interior bull-rushing RBs are injured within '07 (F Taylor/S Morris), and the ONLY 1 whom can somewhat offer a counter to these inside spearheading and pocket collapsing 4-3 DTs, is K Faulk-whom doesn't get it done with the size-skills that Morris/Taylor use, BUT can get it minorly countered with his screen passing abilities, good pass-block protecting, And whom can also get it certainly done with his fantastic field-vision when it comes to hitting the open hole in the O-Line, not with bulk or power, but with preciseness, exactness, and quickness in his N/S quick, excellent hole vision. 
         .....So You NEED to get someone like Kevin Faulk outta the game.....
         .....Soooo, NE can put an absolute hesitating, dancing, p#ssy-of-an-interior-rushing (with his total lack of field vision), Runningback, like one-Lawrence Maroney, INTO the game.  Because really lmao, Maroney was meager at screens, but simply a god awful interior rushing prescence.
     

    Well, well done NY...  NEED: To collapse the passing pocket and get to Tom Brady...WORRY: Kevin Faulk can be used to exploit your defensive gameplan, the OTHER way.   So, IF NE's best strength is their passing game through Brady, and their best only even somewhat exploitable weakness is their running game using certain RBs in specific areas (Faulk on screens, quick cuts inside; Maroney...well, nowhere really).  RESULT: Get Kevin Faulk O-U-T of the game, so NE HAS to use LM's specific gameskill set (sweeps, outside speed, patiently waiting for hole development)-which'll perfectly benefit you here (NYG), IN-TO the game.


    ~
    If then, it was essential that Kevin Faulk HAD to come outta the game, Personally I just woulda showed up at his house the day before, and killed him...but hey, I'm a brute really.  
     But yea, I guess their way worked too; My method, it woulda worked just as fine though.  None of us should be comin' away thinkin' 1 method is any better than the other method, really.  My Way?  It woulda got the job accomplished just the same, ya know? 
     
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Would You Beat the Pats? : See, THIS is exactly what I'm talkin' about here (previous post) ...       From The NY Giants perspective:  IF essential to your Giants Defensive Gameplan IS-Having your DEs go wide around the ends, while sending your 2 interior DTs spearheading like demons in he!! by shootin' the gaps through the interior of the Patriots's Offensive Line, without any hesitancy or care in the world that NE will, can, or has the ability to counter this gameplan by the standard technique of using an RB in the running game, who can keep those spearheading DTs even minorly honest in their approach of gap-shooting, BY having ANY decent RB who can make it through the interior of the now vacant D-Line by their aggressiveness to simply collapse the passing pocket when that RB either runs past them inside, or has the hands to exploit a small screen pass from their vacated D-center area...You NEED to get someone like Kevin Faulk outta the game.....      .....so NE can put an absolute hesitating, dancing, p#ssy-of-an-interior-rushing, Runningback, like one-Lawrence Maroney, INTO the game.  Because really lmao, Maroney was meager at screens, but simply a god awful interior rushing prescence.   Well, well done NY...  NEED: To collapse the passing pocket and get to Tom Brady...WORRY: Kevin Faulk can be used to exploit your defensive gameplan, the OTHER way.   So, IF NE's best strength is their passing game through Brady, and their best only even somewhat exploitable weakness is their running game using certain RBs in specific areas (Faulk on screens, quick cuts inside; Maroney...well, nowhere really).  RESULT: Get Kevin Faulk O-U-T of the game, so NE HAS to use LM's specific gameskill set (sweeps, outside speed)-which'll benefit you (NYG), IN-to the game. ~ If then, it was essential that Kevin Faulk HAD to come outta the game, Personally I just woulda showed up at his house the day before, and killed him...but hey, I'm a brute really.    But yea, I guess their way worked too; My method, it woulda worked just as fine though...it woulda got the job accomplished just the same, ya know?   
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]Nice Post. I remember when the talking heads where saying welker is the pats running game and thinking no team has won the sb without a running game so just shut up.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Would You Beat the Pats? : Nice Post. I remember when the talking heads where saying welker is the pats running game and thinking no team has won the sb without a running game so just shut up.
    Posted by whitetrashgang[/QUOTE]

    wtg and ALL:


    As usual, the critics are only somewhat intelligent...I think that's a basic rule to be any form of critic, editorialist, and/or analyst=Just over the Intelligence Bell of the Learning Curve...no further, No further whatsoever-just a tad as the curve is goin' oh so slight onto the just above-average-smart side.

    Here?  It too only makes 'em, Smart Enough to come off sounding Totally Smart...  NE DOES and HAS used Welker as a basic form of the running game...YET, I really don't think it's some form of Brilliant and above all, Purposeful Tactics.  It's brilliant Bill Belichick, that's for certain...  NO Coach is as good as Bill Belichick imho, when it comes to BOTH seeing his weaknesses and the current things he is lacking, AND using his strengths that he DOES have at his disposal, in order to correct his problems 1 way or another...WHATever it is.  Honestly, I bet IF Bill Belichick didn't have any WRs, RBs, QB, LBs, or Safeties on Defense/Offense.  Say BB simply had 22 nosetackles, 22O-Linemen, and a punt returner=BB'd end up playin' some ingenious form of Prevent Defense, while on Offense Belichick only had 22 340lb Offensive Linemen, So He'd simply end up Totally RE-Defining what's possible on kick-offs and punt returns with his 1 single returner...

    In otherwords...NE's use of Wes Welker was and has been PRECISELY this...A Weakness countered by A Strength=Nothing More.  Nothing about, the analysts sayin', "Wes Welker is NOW The Patriots Running Game, good planning."  Blah-blah-blah.  MANY Variants involved:  NE's Injury Conditions & Aging involved within their decent RBs (ones who've been working-S Morris, F Taylor, Faulk's age, Dillon retired, Maroney's inadequcy, BJGE not developing quick in his first 2 seasons)-NE had a TOTAL lack of having any good Running Game for awhile;  ALSO, Certain things made it conducive to relying on Welker:  Current NFL League by-laws on pass-interfernce vs eligible receivers (Current Rule: Ya can't hit QBs or WRs...ever); ALSO, NE had, like all teams, somewhat forsaken certain personell areas (after they got injured or aged & retired &/or just had enough draft picks and resources in free agency to target other aspects for the timebeing)-So certain areas get rebuilt and are strengths at certain times while certain areas get rebuilt at later times and aren't as strong. 

    Example:  NE had an aging O-Line and what it WAS originally built for, & what required less youth and strength to do, Was pass-protection OVER Running Strength=An Aged & smaller, more agile & built to protect Brady- O-Line, That by far the 1 thing it could still do better than run-block, WAS pass-block...  ZERO TEs (for a few years), ZERO good RBs, aging smaller O-Line...Ya counter the things your lacking or are weak at, with the things you are strong at...just as BB went to the verticle game with Moss, and the short passing game w/ Welker BOTH as a lack for having a decent #2 possession receiver/Or good TE (just Moss's deep ball) AND for the lack of a running game (just Welker in slot).   


    ~
    NOTHING about Bill Belichick does it this way, or that way...  GARBAGE, Total B#llsh#t.  Bill Belichick improvises and compromises, Nothing More.  Counter Weaknesses you have at 1 single given time, With Strengths you currently have at 1 single given time.  Then: Do it again...and again and again and again.  Whoever does this the best & the quickest, Becomes successful.  BB's fantastic. 
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to How Would You Beat the Pats? : get pressure on brady w/ enough to hit him, harrass him, or move him out of the pocket - chuck receivers aggressively on the line to disrupt time, and score more points than the pats......lol
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]
    So, why don't we see teams attempt to do this EVERY game?  Could it be the Pats do the BEST job adjusting and nullify these tactics?  One would think the Jets and Bears, two teams with highly rated defenses, would have, somehow, attempted these tactics.  Somewhere in the bowels of opponent defensive coaches they seem to know these tactics are short lived and need something that can last an entire game, a solution yet to be found.

    Also, here is the other problem... the Patriots D is improving immensely week by week.  How about that for a nightmare?  A team whose young D is getting better each week and the offense is too!!
     
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    Re: How Would You Beat the Pats?

    the SB game would've been different now that we have Vollmer at RT and 3 TEs, we can keep those blitzer honest with short quick passes, that's what happen to these high bilitzing team that we beat. I honestly want to see Pats go against the Rams, our team vs Spagnoulu's defensive schemes, we always struggled going against the Rams.

    I think Brady said it best, the best defense is 4 man rush and man to man coverage. That's if you have the right personel.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How Would You Beat the Pats? : this is a great post... because it is exactly what they do...so to speak... and protoges and other teams have tried to copy it... see mangenius, mcdaniel, kc, and now atlanta...some with success some not so much...  but they are all missing that special ingrediant to make it all go....   hopefully he is really enjoying himself and doesnt see a need to change anything anytime soon...
    Posted by jcour382[/QUOTE]

    I thought the hypothetical specifically said "named coach"

    If I happened across the $5-10 billion in base capital to buy a team, or if I was named football godfather like Mike Holmgren, then I'd be in business.
     

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