How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    Ok....we line up Hern wide left, Gronk wide right. Two tight end , one back set with Ballard and Fells, with Vareen as the lone back. Amendola in the slot. The options are limitless. A 6,4"  and 6'6" wideouts. A6'7" TE, a speedy shifty pass catching back who can run inside, outside, and catch n run. A sure handed slot receiver who can break a tackle or 2. We don't need a big receiver for the redone IMO....we are all set...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    Ok....we line up Hern wide left, Gronk wide right. Two tight end , one back set with Ballard and Fells, with Vareen as the lone back. Amendola in the slot. The options are limitless. A 6,4"  and 6'6" wideouts. A6'7" TE, a speedy shifty pass catching back who can run inside, outside, and catch n run. A sure handed slot receiver who can break a tackle or 2. We don't need a big receiver for the redone IMO....we are all set...



    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    Ok....we line up Hern wide left, Gronk wide right. Two tight end , one back set with Ballard and Fells, with Vareen as the lone back. Amendola in the slot. The options are limitless. A 6,4"  and 6'6" wideouts. A6'7" TE, a speedy shifty pass catching back who can run inside, outside, and catch n run. A sure handed slot receiver who can break a tackle or 2. We don't need a big receiver for the redone IMO....we are all set...

     



    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     



    Holy S$&t....lol. Ok.....let's take Brady off the field....lol. What a knucklehead....lol

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    Hey, I'll give you this, makonikyman, that would be difficult to cover.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    Ok....we line up Hern wide left, Gronk wide right. Two tight end , one back set with Ballard and Fells, with Vareen as the lone back. Amendola in the slot. The options are limitless. A 6,4"  and 6'6" wideouts. A6'7" TE, a speedy shifty pass catching back who can run inside, outside, and catch n run. A sure handed slot receiver who can break a tackle or 2. We don't need a big receiver for the redone IMO....we are all set...

     



    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     

     



    Holy S$&t....lol. Ok.....let's take Brady off the field....lol. What a knucklehead....lol

     




    Hahaha!  Well played!  This thread is full of WIN!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     


    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     

     



     



    hahahahaha dude, you`re hilarius,great pick.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    I'm not sure Amendola would make the best inside 20 guy. Wes was good inside the 20 because Brady had a ton of time for Welker to eventually get open or D's weren't paying attention. But, a number of times this past season the Pats stalled inside the 20's. One reason is our WR's were undersized and got beat up at the line. If I was to build a red zone O here's how I'd play it.

    Outside receivers:  

    Hern and Nelson/Ramses (really any WR 6'2"+ with great leaping ability and can fight at the line)

    Reasoning - Hern is your shifty receiver who can create separation and YAC for quick dump off slants. The larger WR is an outlet value incase of blitz where Brady can lobe it up over the rushers inside of trying to throw it through the rushers (with smaller WR's) and let them simply out jump a DB for the ball. Both could fight at the line and not be beat up with bump and runs

    TEs: Gronk and Ballard

    Reasoning - both are massive men that can stay in and block or release and get open. The D would have to keep 2 LB/SSs back watching both to see which could release at any moment. It effectively takes 2 of the 11 D players out of the play automatically.

    RB: Vereen 

    Reasoning - Vereen can stay in the backfield or motion out to slot causing D confusion. He can also start the slot and motion in giving Brady tons of flexibility if he sees mismatches/rush on the line. If Vereen stays in to block you are again removing a D player from the play as they have to watch Vereen.

    This O would give Brady flexibility depending on what he sees and has the size to power run, sweep, or pull as well as release receivers closer to the line. The physical presence would be to much for DB's to play physical at the line and more importantly the size means Brady doesn't have to be perfect with the ball and can throw it over defenders instead of trying to throw it through defenders

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I'm not sure Amendola would make the best inside 20 guy. Wes was good inside the 20 because Brady had a ton of time for Welker to eventually get open or D's weren't paying attention. But, a number of times this past season the Pats stalled inside the 20's. One reason is our WR's were undersized and got beat up at the line. If I was to build a red zone O here's how I'd play it.

    Outside receivers:  

    Hern and Nelson/Ramses (really any WR 6'2"+ with great leaping ability and can fight at the line)

    Reasoning - Hern is your shifty receiver who can create separation and YAC for quick dump off slants. The larger WR is an outlet value incase of blitz where Brady can lobe it up over the rushers inside of trying to throw it through the rushers (with smaller WR's) and let them simply out jump a DB for the ball. Both could fight at the line and not be beat up with bump and runs

    TEs: Gronk and Ballard

    Reasoning - both are massive men that can stay in and block or release and get open. The D would have to keep 2 LB/SSs back watching both to see which could release at any moment. It effectively takes 2 of the 11 D players out of the play automatically.

    RB: Vereen 

    Reasoning - Vereen can stay in the backfield or motion out to slot causing D confusion. He can also start the slot and motion in giving Brady tons of flexibility if he sees mismatches/rush on the line. If Vereen stays in to block you are again removing a D player from the play as they have to watch Vereen.

    This O would give Brady flexibility depending on what he sees and has the size to power run, sweep, or pull as well as release receivers closer to the line. The physical presence would be to much for DB's to play physical at the line and more importantly the size means Brady doesn't have to be perfect with the ball and can throw it over defenders instead of trying to throw it through defenders



    I ws thinking of more so inside the 10. Why not Hern and Gronk out wide and just toss it up to whoever has the smaller cornerback on them ? I can't imagine a 5'9" " Dennard" type cb beating Gronk in a jump ball situation...or, a slant where he can shield him with his big body. Sounds too easy to me...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I'm not sure Amendola would make the best inside 20 guy. Wes was good inside the 20 because Brady had a ton of time for Welker to eventually get open or D's weren't paying attention. But, a number of times this past season the Pats stalled inside the 20's. One reason is our WR's were undersized and got beat up at the line. If I was to build a red zone O here's how I'd play it.

    Outside receivers:  

    Hern and Nelson/Ramses (really any WR 6'2"+ with great leaping ability and can fight at the line)

    Reasoning - Hern is your shifty receiver who can create separation and YAC for quick dump off slants. The larger WR is an outlet value incase of blitz where Brady can lobe it up over the rushers inside of trying to throw it through the rushers (with smaller WR's) and let them simply out jump a DB for the ball. Both could fight at the line and not be beat up with bump and runs

    TEs: Gronk and Ballard

    Reasoning - both are massive men that can stay in and block or release and get open. The D would have to keep 2 LB/SSs back watching both to see which could release at any moment. It effectively takes 2 of the 11 D players out of the play automatically.

    RB: Vereen 

    Reasoning - Vereen can stay in the backfield or motion out to slot causing D confusion. He can also start the slot and motion in giving Brady tons of flexibility if he sees mismatches/rush on the line. If Vereen stays in to block you are again removing a D player from the play as they have to watch Vereen.

    This O would give Brady flexibility depending on what he sees and has the size to power run, sweep, or pull as well as release receivers closer to the line. The physical presence would be to much for DB's to play physical at the line and more importantly the size means Brady doesn't have to be perfect with the ball and can throw it over defenders instead of trying to throw it through defenders

     



    I ws thinking of more so inside the 10. Why not Hern and Gronk out wide and just toss it up to whoever has the smaller cornerback on them ? I can't imagine a 5'9" " Dennard" type cb beating Gronk in a jump ball situation...or, a slant where he can shield him with his big body. Sounds too easy to me...

     



    If you keep Gronk in with Ballard then you have 2 6'6"+ 260+ TE's who could release or stay in an block for Vereen. This adds confusion to the D as they have to plan for both. If Gronk is on the outside they could stick a taller LB on Gronk instead of a CB given the back of the endzone can help overcome speed differences between Gronk and the LB. Howevver, if you have a larger WR with great vertical and keep Gronk in that taller LB has to stay inside to guard against Gronk releasing and it forces D's to stick a CB on the taller WR. Just gives more options and creates better mismatches

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I'm not sure Amendola would make the best inside 20 guy. Wes was good inside the 20 because Brady had a ton of time for Welker to eventually get open or D's weren't paying attention. But, a number of times this past season the Pats stalled inside the 20's. One reason is our WR's were undersized and got beat up at the line. If I was to build a red zone O here's how I'd play it.

    Outside receivers:  

    Hern and Nelson/Ramses (really any WR 6'2"+ with great leaping ability and can fight at the line)

    Reasoning - Hern is your shifty receiver who can create separation and YAC for quick dump off slants. The larger WR is an outlet value incase of blitz where Brady can lobe it up over the rushers inside of trying to throw it through the rushers (with smaller WR's) and let them simply out jump a DB for the ball. Both could fight at the line and not be beat up with bump and runs

    TEs: Gronk and Ballard

    Reasoning - both are massive men that can stay in and block or release and get open. The D would have to keep 2 LB/SSs back watching both to see which could release at any moment. It effectively takes 2 of the 11 D players out of the play automatically.

    RB: Vereen 

    Reasoning - Vereen can stay in the backfield or motion out to slot causing D confusion. He can also start the slot and motion in giving Brady tons of flexibility if he sees mismatches/rush on the line. If Vereen stays in to block you are again removing a D player from the play as they have to watch Vereen.

    This O would give Brady flexibility depending on what he sees and has the size to power run, sweep, or pull as well as release receivers closer to the line. The physical presence would be to much for DB's to play physical at the line and more importantly the size means Brady doesn't have to be perfect with the ball and can throw it over defenders instead of trying to throw it through defenders

     



    I ws thinking of more so inside the 10. Why not Hern and Gronk out wide and just toss it up to whoever has the smaller cornerback on them ? I can't imagine a 5'9" " Dennard" type cb beating Gronk in a jump ball situation...or, a slant where he can shield him with his big body. Sounds too easy to me...

     

     



    If you keep Gronk in with Ballard then you have 2 6'6"+ 260+ TE's who could release or stay in an block for Vereen. This adds confusion to the D as they have to plan for both. If Gronk is on the outside they could stick a taller LB on Gronk instead of a CB given the back of the endzone can help overcome speed differences between Gronk and the LB. Howevver, if you have a larger WR with great vertical and keep Gronk in that taller LB has to stay inside to guard against Gronk releasing and it forces D's to stick a CB on the taller WR. Just gives more options and creates better mismatches

     



    If they do that ( put a lb out with Gronks ) then that means the cb has to play inside where the Lb left. Assuming we have Fells and Ballard in with Vareen in the backfield ( forget Amendola...lol ) I would then just run right at the Cb...again...a mismatch but in the run game. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I'm not sure Amendola would make the best inside 20 guy. Wes was good inside the 20 because Brady had a ton of time for Welker to eventually get open or D's weren't paying attention. But, a number of times this past season the Pats stalled inside the 20's. One reason is our WR's were undersized and got beat up at the line. If I was to build a red zone O here's how I'd play it.

    Outside receivers:  

    Hern and Nelson/Ramses (really any WR 6'2"+ with great leaping ability and can fight at the line)

    Reasoning - Hern is your shifty receiver who can create separation and YAC for quick dump off slants. The larger WR is an outlet value incase of blitz where Brady can lobe it up over the rushers inside of trying to throw it through the rushers (with smaller WR's) and let them simply out jump a DB for the ball. Both could fight at the line and not be beat up with bump and runs

    TEs: Gronk and Ballard

    Reasoning - both are massive men that can stay in and block or release and get open. The D would have to keep 2 LB/SSs back watching both to see which could release at any moment. It effectively takes 2 of the 11 D players out of the play automatically.

    RB: Vereen 

    Reasoning - Vereen can stay in the backfield or motion out to slot causing D confusion. He can also start the slot and motion in giving Brady tons of flexibility if he sees mismatches/rush on the line. If Vereen stays in to block you are again removing a D player from the play as they have to watch Vereen.

    This O would give Brady flexibility depending on what he sees and has the size to power run, sweep, or pull as well as release receivers closer to the line. The physical presence would be to much for DB's to play physical at the line and more importantly the size means Brady doesn't have to be perfect with the ball and can throw it over defenders instead of trying to throw it through defenders

     



    I ws thinking of more so inside the 10. Why not Hern and Gronk out wide and just toss it up to whoever has the smaller cornerback on them ? I can't imagine a 5'9" " Dennard" type cb beating Gronk in a jump ball situation...or, a slant where he can shield him with his big body. Sounds too easy to me...

     

     



    If you keep Gronk in with Ballard then you have 2 6'6"+ 260+ TE's who could release or stay in an block for Vereen. This adds confusion to the D as they have to plan for both. If Gronk is on the outside they could stick a taller LB on Gronk instead of a CB given the back of the endzone can help overcome speed differences between Gronk and the LB. Howevver, if you have a larger WR with great vertical and keep Gronk in that taller LB has to stay inside to guard against Gronk releasing and it forces D's to stick a CB on the taller WR. Just gives more options and creates better mismatches

     

     



    If they do that ( put a lb out with Gronks ) then that means the cb has to play inside where the Lb left. Assuming we have Fells and Ballard in with Vareen in the backfield ( forget Amendola...lol ) I would then just run right at the Cb...again...a mismatch but in the run game. 

     



    Not exactly, they can go a 353 or a 443 stlye and simply drop a DB in replacement for the extra LB to cover Gronk as he's the #1 threat. However, when Gronks inside you have to account for him and can't have that extra LB because then you have a more athletic WR on the outside to contend with. Just by keeping Gronk inside you are forcing a mismatch. Which is why inside the 10 you typically see Gronk lined up inside and then motion outside. It forces the other teams hand to keep a 4th DB on the field instead of overloading on LB's. The reason moving Gronk outside when they are out of the redzone works is because Gronk is typically faster then most bigger LB's so they need to toss a quicker defender on him, not to mention the other team doesn't want to be caught in the hurry up with only 3 DB's on the field, but inside the 20 the back of the endzone acts as a 12th defender so you could have that extra LB to prevent a mismatch if you see Gronk lined up wide

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    Ok....we line up Hern wide left, Gronk wide right. Two tight end , one back set with Ballard and Fells, with Vareen as the lone back. Amendola in the slot. The options are limitless. A 6,4"  and 6'6" wideouts. A6'7" TE, a speedy shifty pass catching back who can run inside, outside, and catch n run. A sure handed slot receiver who can break a tackle or 2. We don't need a big receiver for the redone IMO....we are all set...

     



    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     



    I'm bowing!! Very nice!!!!!!!!!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    Ok....we line up Hern wide left, Gronk wide right. Two tight end , one back set with Ballard and Fells, with Vareen as the lone back. Amendola in the slot. The options are limitless. A 6,4"  and 6'6" wideouts. A6'7" TE, a speedy shifty pass catching back who can run inside, outside, and catch n run. A sure handed slot receiver who can break a tackle or 2. We don't need a big receiver for the redone IMO....we are all set...

     



    Easy, you let the refs throw a flag. You have 12 players on the field

     




    5 O linemen....very sharp mind indeed....nice pick up....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rbetourne. Show rbetourne's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    This scenario is exactly why I say sign Nelson.  6'5"--and if you had Ballard/Gronk on the line w/Amendola in the slot w/vereen in the backfield.  Now, you have three 6'5" and over guys in the end zone w/a quick slanter ---sorry, no team has defenders that can stop that.  But, I am still in favor of a power back in that situation--because then the D really has to stay home w/a bull runner (Bolden?) w/the two TE's in.  Hernandez is more of a 20 yd and out guy--because he doesnt go up to get balls--he is catch the ball quickly and redirect quickly to lose the coverage type guy.  This is why we struggled in the red zone in the playoffs last few years---only big dude was Gronk.  Reality was when we had Moss and we were in the red zone--especially w/in 10 yds--at least one play was going to be the fade to Moss.  Who do we have now or for that matter since Moss left?  Lloyd certainly was not that.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    That sounds as unstoppable as what we thought the offense would be at about the same time last year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    Part of Gronk's receiving game is that he bumps relatively tiny linebackers out of the way, and many wideouts are automatically double covered these days by zones. Gronk can't outrun a cornerback deep. 

    Gronk is a relatively huge target when he's going over the middle. That helps Brady to hit him.  Brady really likes short passes, first because he can take a three step drop and release the ball quickly no matter who is rushing, and second because the defense doesn't have time to react to the pass being in the air.

    Also, putting Gronk at the end of the line means that his league-leading blocking ability usually gives Ridley or Vereen a lane.   The Patriots set the NFL first down record this year because their offense ran the ball almost as much as Brady threw it.

    Putting Gronk out at wide receiver is a waste of his unique talents.  Just put him at the end of the O-line, let Amendola be a wideout sometimes, let Hernandez be the other wideout if the opponent puts the wrong personnel on the field, choose a third TE by committee and choose one RB by rotation.   

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: How would you cover this ? ( pats red zone play )

    Well with the arsenal availible to Brady it's looking like he can throw a TD on any D regardless of how many men he has on the field with 12 it's a given,but even subtracting one of the extra Receivers off it should be another banner year offensively. Now can we get the defense to play just a smidge harder and move back into the top 10 defensively?

     
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