I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]The biggest comical aspect of the draft threads is that some guys read Street and Smith and the Sporting News and see a guy play once or a few times on TV and think they can project him as a pro.  Even the experts (Kiper, McShay, etc.) are all wrong the majority of the time.  And along comes Jimmy the office clerk telling us all why Jabaal Sheard was the right pick for the Pats.  Oh really?      Face it gents, you like a guy's tinted face shield, his big biceps, his skull tattoo and his sacks dances and think, hell, that guy would look good in Foxboro.  Meanwhile, BB and his pro personnel guys are contacting elementary school teachers and pee wee coaches to get a workup on all of these prospects.  Then they watch every game film they can get, and watch it and re-watch it trying to get a feel for the guy.  And then there's the combine, pro days, personal interviews with BB and the coaching staff and other stuff.  Let's not pretend to understand all of what goes on in stacking a draft board, and let's not pretend we have any idea what skill set BB needs for the many defensive schemes he is devising.  If you want to say, hey, they could have used a pass rusher, great.  I'd agree.  But did anyone know there was a scheme shift coming?  No.   Draft threads are fun, but anyone who thinks they are an expert is kidding themselves.  Even the Kipers and McShays, who spend 90 hours a week looking at this stuff, look like jokers when they comment of hundreds of guys at the draft.    
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    Cables lets be fair on this one here. True us amateurs aren't as good at picking players as the professionals but the professionals also miss on a number of picks too, including BB.

    To say the guys over in the draft thread are picking players based on appearance, dance, or a single game is an insult. A number of us actually love to scout prospects and watching multiple games and will actually go to practices for fun. Some of us I'd compare to the "experts" (not professionals) when it comes to evaluating prospects. It might not seem interesting to you and you might not understand the joy some of us get putting in the energy to watch and evaluate players and that's alright but before making comments like that why not try to join in our conversations on the thread write down some names and see how they turn out in the pro's. I'd think you'd be surprised we're right more often then you think (though less often as wrong)
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    Carter and Anderson should both be back if the dollars work.  Not sold on MA as a 3-4 OLB, but he's vastly superior to anything TBC offered as a situational pass rusher in my opinion.  Maybe MA cashes in if the Pats win it all, maybe he likes that he's being used here in a way to maximize his strengths.  Carter is a FA pickup like we used to see -- Cox, Phifer, Harrison, Bobby Hamilton, etc.  Good, solid vets who want to win.  Hope they're both back.   
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    Also I would rather see us draft another gigantic DT/DE, mind you not a DE/OLB pass rusher but another VW/Seymour type. I believe with a dominant D-line like we had with VW/Ted Washington/Traylor/Sey/Warren we commanded double teams up front and opened up pass rushing lanes for guys like Vrabel and company to tally up the sacks/pressures. We also guarantee a run stuffing d -line like we used to have.

    I would take another DT over an edge rusher. I think that is what works in BB system in my honest opinion.

    i also think its the reason we have so many d-linemen on the roster. BB's defesne has always been predicated on having beef up front. Not Julius Peppers type players but Ted Washington/Vince Wilfork types.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : Cables lets be fair on this one here. True us amateurs aren't as good at picking players as the professionals but the professionals also miss on a number of picks too, including BB. To say the guys over in the draft thread are picking players based on appearance, dance, or a single game is an insult. A number of us actually love to scout prospects and watching multiple games and will actually go to practices for fun. Some of us I'd compare to the "experts" (not professionals) when it comes to evaluating prospects. It might not seem interesting to you and you might not understand the joy some of us get putting in the energy to watch and evaluate players and that's alright but before making comments like that why not try to join in our conversations on the thread write down some names and see how they turn out in the pro's. I'd think you'd be surprised we're right more often then you think (though less often as wrong)
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    PE, I love the draft, and all the power to you if it's your passion.  It's just that I cannot stand guys who rip BB for not drafting "their" guy.  And then they come back here and create thread after thread about how BB missed on this guy or that guy even if he has a modicum of success anywhere else.  Regardless if he is a good player that was passed by the Pats (Clay Matthews, Carlos Dunlap, Brooks Reed, Sheard, list goes on and on), I cannot stand when there is thread after thread about them.  

    I wasn't necessarily calling out the guys who like to contribute to the draft threads.  I read those like most guys here.  I'm talking moreso about the guy who comes here and writes his 15th post about how the Pats screwed up by not taking Clay Matthews, and that "he called it" that Mattews was a surefire stud.     
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    A big part of the puzzle regarding drafting is coaches. It's not just the personnel department or head coach.

    We have done quite well with O-line picks. See Dante.

    We have a HOF QB. See Dick. (RIP)

    Guys like Sey, Vrabel and HotRod were added to an excellent core D from previous regimes to form a damned good D. Romeo was probably a big influence in those choices.

    The endless raiding of staff has taken a toll on draft day.




     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : PE, I love the draft, and all the power to you if it's your passion.  It's just that I cannot stand guys who rip BB for not drafting "their" guy.  And then they come back here and create thread after thread about how BB missed on this guy or that guy even if he has a modicum of success anywhere else.  Regardless if he is a good player that was passed by the Pats (Clay Matthews, Carlos Dunlap, Brooks Reed, Sheard, list goes on and on), I cannot stand when there is thread after thread about them.   I wasn't necessarily calling out the guys who like to contribute to the draft threads.  I read those like most guys here.  I'm talking moreso about the guy who comes here and writes his 15th post about how the Pats screwed up by not taking Clay Matthews, and that "he called it" that Mattews was a surefire stud.     
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    Ok I miss understood Cables, I apologize. It's just tough when everyone paints with a broad brush and guys who are actually pretty good about the draft like MB get caught in the stroke.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In response to "Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!": [QUOTE]Also I would rather see us draft another gigantic DT/DE, mind you not a DE/OLB pass rusher but another VW/Seymour type. I believe with a dominant D-line like we had with VW/Ted Washington/Traylor/Sey/Warren we commanded double teams up front and opened up pass rushing lanes for guys like Vrabel and company to tally up the sacks/pressures. We also guarantee a run stuffing d -line like we used to have. I would take another DT over an edge rusher. I think that is what works in BB system in my honest opinion. i also think its the reason we have so many d-linemen on the roster. BB's defesne has always been predicated on having beef up front. Not Julius Peppers type players but Ted Washington/Vince Wilfork types. Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE] Agreed, I want a bit DT, and that's where the defense starts, I think it will make all the difference. This isn't supposed to be a good DT draft but that my cause some people to fall and the Pats to get a top 3 guy. We'll see.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]Also I would rather see us draft another gigantic DT/DE, mind you not a DE/OLB pass rusher but another VW/Seymour type. I believe with a dominant D-line like we had with VW/Ted Washington/Traylor/Sey/Warren we commanded double teams up front and opened up pass rushing lanes for guys like Vrabel and company to tally up the sacks/pressures. We also guarantee a run stuffing d -line like we used to have. I would take another DT over an edge rusher. I think that is what works in BB system in my honest opinion. i also think its the reason we have so many d-linemen on the roster. BB's defesne has always been predicated on having beef up front. Not Julius Peppers type players but Ted Washington/Vince Wilfork types.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Actually True that is another form of pass rushing and most of the draftniks agree with you on. Actually most of us in this upcoming draft would rather have a Brockers, Still, or Cox over an Mercilus, Curry, or Branch. I agree the edge isn't as big of a problem as collapsing the pocket from within but in turn drafting a 43DT/34DE is the same as saying you want a pass rush to some of us. There are a lot more ways to generate a rush then just off the edge and from the interior is one of the most affective.

    As I have always thought of it, the D starts on the line and ripples out. The more affective the line the more affective the LB's become and the more affective the secondary becomes. But, it doesn't always work in reverse as even the best secondaries loaded with talent will eventually break down if a QB is given all day
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : Ok I miss understood Cables, I apologize. It's just tough when everyone paints with a broad brush and guys who are actually pretty good about the draft like MB get caught in the stroke.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    No worries, no apology needed, I should've been more clear.  I like the draft threads and the posts there.  If anything, those threads tell me about guys from obscure schools who I may not have heard of.  It's the "We missed out on Clay Matthews and Carlos Dunlap" threads after a Pats loss that drive me I-N-S-A-N-E.    
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    Please stop saying BB switched to a 4/3 base defense, we didn't see one 4/3 alignment during the Bronco's game it was all 3/4.  

    We invited 22 defensive linemen to camp, brought Andre Carter and Mark Anderson into the fold, that's what I call addressing the pass rush.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : He's sort of correct, though. Kids love trendy things. American Idol, Facebook, video games, Hollywood movies with awful CGI, etc. You know what I mean. So, they see a Clay Matthews with muscle flexing and long hair and it's "Why didn't meanie BB choose him!" You can kind of tell which fans have sort of read the Pats books that are available out there.  Pats Management Secrets Vol 1 and 2 are really all you need to really see why someone like Clay Matthews may not be a fit here.  BB actually passed on him and was able to secure Gronk the next year. And Herandez for that matter, simply by trading back a year before.  But, no, some want blond long hair and possible roids and no responsibilty of defending the run. Right or wrong, there is a formula here.  BB values certain things and we have NO IDEA if certain NCAA prospects pass the BB test. BB raved about Mayo and McCourty's interviews, for example.   Hence, why he felt the investment was a smart one. He sees them as coachable and with great upside with what he wants. It's also why he has a ton of UDFAs here. It's why McDaniels traded CUtler. Coachability. You may not really know is a guy has that "it" until he's challeged to continue improve.  Maroney and Meriweather didn't have that. Whoops. Not busts, but they weren't willing to go the extra mile in this system. You look at immature, low football IQ types in the draft and you just know BB isn't keen on the player.  We had morons in here babbling about Dez Bryant in 2010, but Bryant is walking around malls with his pants around his ankles.  Does anyone think this tool would fit in this locker room? LOL I am not even sure Dez Bryant would be able to find Route 1. Now, you look at a Maroney or a Meriweather, and I'd agree he sacrificed these aspects with those picks.  Maroney split time with a zone blocking scheme a U of MInn, isn't the brightest bulb in the shed, but BB was installing a McDaniels offense that needed a Maroney college skill set. Ok. Meriweather? Same deal.  Physical FS with range who could play at the line, etc, but the cerbral part was a question. But, neither really were mature or featured high IQ football acumen. So, there's different reasons and only BB knows who is going to be cut or available from other teams. I'd bet dollars to donuts he looks at teams cap situations every year before the draft and then guesses who will be cut.  If he likes the player, he calls and offers them a deal to come here. There are numerous examples of this. If Reggie Wayne leaves Indy, $100 BB calls him and Brandon Lloyd. This is why I don't flip out right after he drafts who he drafts.  He uses the draft and FA in conjunction with building a roster every year. The other thing is, the Patriot Way is a hard thing to build.   Finally, what a guy did in college really doesn't always translate to the pros, as we know. Further, a consistency in how you build a team is key because it's leverage to lure FAs here.  No one will want to go to teh Jets, for example, because the team was built poorly even though our friend RKarp told us differently all year long. LMAO I'd rather he get the safe picks in ROund 1 and then start increasing the risk picks later in the drafts. Cannon is a good example in ROund 5.  In a nutshell, anyone complaining about the approach is an absolute moron.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    I agree with much of what you say here.

    When I see fans clamoring to maybe trade up for a Bryant or a McFadden I become so upset I have to change my diaper.

    If you have the franchise QB you do not draft for the flashy skill positions. But you must have that QB at almost any cost these days. You draft the meat and potatoes and build solid units. You can always pick up or trade for a guy that has some mileage left on the treads for those other skill positions.

    And I'm not opposed at all to trading down, but you better have an ace or two in the hole that is under everybody's radar if your going to do that. Some half-azzed hunch won't get it done in that situation.

    And what is lost on many is that projects are best relegated to the later rounds. You can't spend a high draft pick on a guy who is going to take 3-4 years to contribute in a major way because by then you have to pay top money to keep that talent you sacrificed to developed.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : So, is this the part where you finally admit BB is the best GM of the cap era? I mean, really, name another franchise whose GM has been more consistent.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]


    No. He's been average.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    Deja vu anyone?
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : He's sort of correct, though. Kids love trendy things. American Idol, Facebook, video games, Hollywood movies with awful CGI, etc. You know what I mean. So, they see a Clay Matthews with muscle flexing and long hair and it's "Why didn't meanie BB choose him!" You can kind of tell which fans have sort of read the Pats books that are available out there.  Pats Management Secrets Vol 1 and 2 are really all you need to really see why someone like Clay Matthews may not be a fit here.  BB actually passed on him and was able to secure Gronk the next year. And Herandez for that matter, simply by trading back a year before.  But, no, some want blond long hair and possible roids and no responsibilty of defending the run. Right or wrong, there is a formula here.  BB values certain things and we have NO IDEA if certain NCAA prospects pass the BB test. BB raved about Mayo and McCourty's interviews, for example.   Hence, why he felt the investment was a smart one. He sees them as coachable and with great upside with what he wants. It's also why he has a ton of UDFAs here. It's why McDaniels traded CUtler. Coachability. You may not really know is a guy has that "it" until he's challeged to continue improve.  Maroney and Meriweather didn't have that. Whoops. Not busts, but they weren't willing to go the extra mile in this system. You look at immature, low football IQ types in the draft and you just know BB isn't keen on the player.  We had morons in here babbling about Dez Bryant in 2010, but Bryant is walking around malls with his pants around his ankles.  Does anyone think this tool would fit in this locker room? LOL I am not even sure Dez Bryant would be able to find Route 1. Leave it up to Jerry Jones to draft him. In Round 1.  Now, you look at a Maroney or a Meriweather, and I'd agree he sacrificed these aspects with those picks.  Maroney split time with a zone blocking scheme a U of MInn, isn't the brightest bulb in the shed, but BB was installing a McDaniels offense that needed a Maroney college skill set. Ok. Meriweather? Same deal.  Physical FS with range who could play at the line, etc, but the cerbral part was a question. But, neither really were mature or featured high IQ football acumen. So, there's different reasons and only BB knows who is going to be cut or available from other teams. I'd bet dollars to donuts he looks at teams cap situations every year before the draft and then guesses who will be cut.  If he likes the player, he calls and offers them a deal to come here. There are numerous examples of this. If Reggie Wayne leaves Indy, $100 BB calls him and Brandon Lloyd. This is why I don't flip out right after he drafts who he drafts.  He uses the draft and FA in conjunction with building a roster every year. The other thing is, the Patriot Way is a hard thing to build.   Finally, what a guy did in college really doesn't always translate to the pros, as we know. Further, a consistency in how you build a team is key because it's leverage to lure FAs here.  No one will want to go to teh Jets, for example, because the team was built poorly even though our friend RKarp told us differently all year long. LMAO I'd rather he get the safe picks in ROund 1 and then start increasing the risk picks later in the drafts. Cannon is a good example in ROund 5.  In a nutshell, anyone complaining about the approach is an absolute moron.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]


    Facebook is a trend?  Facebook is about to do an IPO in May with a $100b valuation. Facebook has more than 1billion users...... That's like saying Microsoft Windows or Google was a trend. 

    Video Games our a trend? Video games revenue already exceeds the movie industry and continue to suck entertainment and ad revenue away from the TV and movie industry. 

    You don't know what you're talking about. That's a fact. 
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]Here we are 2 wins from another Super Bowl and I just can't stop giggling thinking about all the jumpers from back in April whining about how we didn't draft a pass rusher.  The endless threads and bitching at the time was horrendous.  I remember starting a few threads of my own trying to shut the whiners up.  So what have we all learned?  BB not only know more about football then any living human but he knows his team and it's needs.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    I hear you..I quit questioning our draft picks a long time ago and just hope that a few of them pay off down the road. We have as good a track record over the years as anyone else. Besides it's fun looking up the roster for Coastal Carolina to see who is on the Short List and Playing follow that draft pick on Draft day.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]Ras I was a good pick - too bad he got hurt. Ridley is through as a Patriot, BB hates fumbling RB's Vereen is injury prone and will be cut. Two bad picks we could have done a lot better with
    Posted by jader[/QUOTE]

    There was a LOCKOUT genius....with OTAs and minicamps they'll get better...carry skills can be taught...speed which Ridley has over Law Firm can't
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:SOme are more interested in pretending they know more than BB.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, and you top the list.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : Facebook is a trend?  Facebook is about to do an IPO in May with a $100b valuation. Facebook has more than 1billion users...... That's like saying Microsoft Windows or Google was a trend.  Video Games our a trend? Video games revenue already exceeds the movie industry and continue to suck entertainment and ad revenue away from the TV and movie industry.  You don't know what you're talking about. That's a fact. 
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    I'm glad someone beat me to this.

    Video Games ARE the entertainment medium of the future, and the present.

    It will soon be more likely that homes will have a video game system instead of a stand-alone dvd/bluray player.

    Ah, but some people thoughts those motorized stagecoach things would be a fad too.
     
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    Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!

    In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I can't believe we didn't draft a pass rusher!! : Well said. I think we all operate with blind spots: obvious things we can't see till years later or others can see but we still can't acknowledge them. BB has his blind spots as well. Overall, he is an amazing coach and developer of talent but the way he has handled the pass rusher issue has kept the team back in previous years.  This year we are fortunate NO and GB have been eliminated from the playoffs and NYG are the only team with a legitimate QB threat. And our success against BALT and the Giants will depend on our offensive lines ability to keep Brady clean.
    Posted by NYC[/QUOTE]

    "Well said. I think we all operate with blind spots: obvious things we can't see till years later or others can see but we still can't acknowledge them. BB has his blind spots as well. Overall, he is an amazing coach and developer of talent but the way he has handled the pass rusher issue has kept the team back in previous years. 

    This year we are fortunate NO and GB have been eliminated from the playoffs and NYG are the only team with a legitimate QB threat. And our success against BALT and the Giants will depend on our offensive lines ability to keep Brady clean."

    excellent clear and potent statements

    re:
    "I think we all operate with blind spots: obvious things we can't see till years later or others can see but we still can't acknowledge them. BB has his blind spots as well. Overall, he is an amazing coach "

    i said this using elaborate points last year, of course those that responded only "defended" the team, unnecessary as if it needed defending or attacked.

    the first step to improving is determining what is nto working or what can be improved (i'm sure bb subscribes to that). it jsut seems bb does not have people who he respects who can assit where he has blind spots. will wait till this year to see if there ahas been any change.

    re:
    "This year we are fortunate NO and GB have been eliminated from the playoffs and NYG are the only team with a legitimate QB threat. And our success against BALT and the Giants will depend on our offensive lines ability to keep Brady clean."

    agreed and agreed.

    these were the reasons for my picks going in and my pulling hard for their opponents. i thought, said and wrote that sf might be the only team that beats new orleans in this whole post-season. (knocking out thomas sure helped them especially as he was about to go into the endzone).

    we win, sf wins, we have a great chance.
    (giants still a chance, but maybe a harder road.

    if we get free safety and maybe cb in fa (possibly even lb), upgrade bjge ideally with a legit starting rb, and  lloyd

    pickup a top run/pass center, couplea top talent front 7 guys,
    maybe a big receiver

    and somewhere a te who can block very good and catch

    we may build toward another shot at the sb

    next year will likely be harder than this, with houston getting better (and if their qb stays healthy), add that to all  the elite teams this year getting better, including gb and n.o., one of which  may not do us the favor of losing before the big game.


    nice post
     
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