I Hate To Be Here

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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    the offense needs balance. I hope Josh McDaniels will give the offense more balance and use Ridley. I don't think the Lawfirm will be coming back. His contract his up.

    Also, I  hate to say this, this will be the last time we see Welker as a Patriot. He's good but we need a WR can win these type of situations similar to the SB.


    BB have to hire a defensive coordinator. Pats lost 2 SB to the same team. Not good.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    All in all, Rusty, I got the feeling, again, like I felt in the Ravens game, the Pats were playing NOT TO LOSE!!  They did not grab the game and the Giants by the throat and execute to win.  After the 90+ yard drive to go up 17 - 9, the Pats simply did not play the same again on offense.  Dropped balls, ineffective running game, the O-line giving up late pressure after having done a real good job protecting Brady.  The Pats can't rely on Brady to make the only big plays on the team.  Others have to step up and none really did.  As I posted on another discussion, can you name a Pats player who made a "wow" play last night like a few we saw from the Giants?  Nope!
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to I Hate To Be Here:
    But, here is really no other way to do it.  41 pass attempts by Brady, no BJGE as lead back, a moronic INT by Brady with control of the game, and then just missed opportunities on offense with the Welker drop on 3rd and 11 the ballgame. They literally giftwrapped the game.  I don't mind losing to a better team, but that's not what this was about. This about two teams ebvenly matched, with one literally refusing to do things to seal the deal on offense.  They were lucky to escape froom Brady's poor AFC Championship game and to see it basically manifest itself again? What do they do all week in practice and why do they continue to act like they're ready when they refuse to run the ball? Their only TD drive was in a hurry up in the first half.  You cannot have a base offense be a wrinkle like a hurry up.  It cannot happen.  I think we should know who had control of this gameplan and how much power O'Brien had to alter it during the game. Note how NE scored a nice TD out of halftime. Who was the lead back? Congrats to the D. Great job doing your job and really putting the team in position to win the game.  Holding down Cruz, Nicks and Manningham was really good, the Run D locked down in the second half, and if just one of those strips bounces the other way, we may be looking at a win.  Battling and allowing NE's offense to finally do something before half was big. Congrats to the Giants, even though I think you know you got away with one yet again.  I am just not that impressed with Eli Manning. He does a nice job not making major mistakes, but he really did nothing of note to win it.  Some are calling it luck, but the fact is, NE turned it over once, NY did not. Brady and Welker pretty much gave he and the Giants offense a sniff to take the lead and NY played like they had nothing to lose, which is what I would be doing at that point, too. The only blame is on the Pats.  Welker may need to be on suicide watch. I am not sure how he lives with that.  The guy catches 100 balls per year, most of them on the run, some tough ones, and he drops that? Tough.  I feel for the guy because he's right. He sort of did let the team down. Still love the guy, but call it like it is. Sucks, but without an ideological change, maybe hiring someone outside the organization to sit on on the Brady led gameplanning on offense for honest and objective opinons on the approach, may be of help. Someone has to be able to tell Brady, "no, we aren't passing 40+ times" anymore. It's his offense, his show, his approach. I would have been demanding we get BJGE 20 carries and use him as a lead back. No way on earth Woodhead is lead back material and with Gronk not 100%, it boggles the mind why BJGE gets carries 10 carries and Ridley wasn't even used once? I can't imagine how BB and Brady can continue to toss games away by simply believing you can win SBs without really ever committing to a run game. I would ask them point blank, how can you do this? How can you not see it? It's to the point now where I don't care anymore because without them acknolweding that in fact, yes you do need balance and running, you will in fact never win a SB ever again. Logan Mankins collects 9 million per year and we throw 40+ times.  You tell me.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    He did nothing to win that game? Did you not see the perfect sideline fly pattern pass he through to start the last drive? It was a perfect pass, a perfect catch and 1st and ten at the 50. Game winning drive is finished - end of game. You are right, not impressive at all.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    I liked that first drive in the 2nd half, the running game had struggles in the first half so they used play-action to open things up for the run. Very clever.

    I do think Brady is taking more heat then he should be for the safety, he had a guy all over him and just chucked it deep, hoping Branch would cut upfield. They didn't make the same read. It wouldn't have been completed regardless, but he was putting it where it couldn't be picked off and turned into 6 or 3 instead of 2.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here : This is your only retort to my post? That was a great throw. NO doubt. I am just saying, this is 2 SBs where NE's offensive ideology handed Eli Manning 2 SB rings. It's pretty hard to deny that NE simply choosing to not run the ball opened up these little windows of opportunity to throw caution to the wind and just chuck the ball in desperation. It's a fact. Mannning had a total of 296 yards passing. If you had told me that before the game, I'd say NE wins. If you had told me 7 points in the first half and then 2 FGsin the second hald with Brady and 3 minute to go to put it away? I'd say, "win". NE's supposed awful D just held him to 7 points and then 2 FGs in the second half, until a Bray INT flipped momentum and Welker dropped a potential game sealing ball. Prior to the throw to Manningham, what was so impressive? He had one real nice one to Nicks over Spikes, ,earlier, but other than that, NE's D made him throw balls away, low, etc You NY/NJ types are unbelievable with how you try to overrate things that come out of NY/NJ.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    I was not responding to your comment as a whole. I agree that NE game plan left something to be desired. NE only ran the ball 21 or 22 times and they should have ran it more once they had the lead. There is no questioning that.

    All I did was challenge that one statement which was completely off base. Manning started the game 9-9 and for the year, threw just under 5,000 yards so to say that he was not impressive is just a completely inaccurate statement. If you don't like him, that is fine.

    IMO, Brady is one of the great QB's of all-time (top 3) and I dislike the guy completely. Credit should be given where due. If The G-Oline doesn't commit that stupid holding penalty, then Manning would have probably led the Giants to another TD. At that point, I think the score was 9-3 and could easily have been 16-3.

    FB is a game of breaks, lucks and everything else thrown into the mix. But to say that Manning was not impressive yesterday is just sour milk (IMO) />

    And no Rusty - this is not a NY/NJ fan over-rating the situation. This is just a football fan who understands that games sometimes break on one single play, sometimes on an entire game plan and sometimes a little of both.

    Both teams had missed opportunities - I see one glaring difference in the game and that is time of possession. And that tells me that Manning had a good feel and control of the game and what the NE D was allowing and not allowing.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    All in all, Rusty, I got the feeling, again, like I felt in the Ravens game, the Pats were playing NOT TO LOSE!!  They did not grab the game and the Giants by the throat and execute to win.  After the 90+ yard drive to go up 17 - 9, the Pats simply did not play the same again on offense.  Dropped balls, ineffective running game, the O-line giving up late pressure after having done a real good job protecting Brady. 
    Posted by agcsbill


    Yuppp...God forbid you give any credit to the Giants "D".  After the two straight TD drives, I was sure Brady was on one of those streaks where they can put up 28 points in a row.  But the Giants "D" held tough.  The Tuck sack was the turning point.  I believe Brady was gun shy after that.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    If freaking Welker holds onto the dam ball we are not even having this conversation.  Yes the team needs balance but if they just executed the plays called they win the game. 

    Agree with you on the Brady interception, no way on God's green earth you throw that ball, no idea were his head is at sometimes.

    I was more upset they didnt throw the ball to the WR's more.  Ocho had one catch were he was open by 10 yards and then they never go back to him?  Branch has 10 plus catches in each of the last 2 SB he is in and they throw to him like 5 times the whole game?

    The silver lining this morning is that we are finally rid of Bill O'Brien.

     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to I Hate To Be Here:
    I am just not that impressed with Eli Manning. He does a nice job not making major mistakes, but he really did nothing of note to win it
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    At first I was going to respond to this comment with a long drawn out analysis, but instead I'm going to let it's sheer stupidity stand on its own!
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    Russ you got it. After the half, they had BJGE in there. Brady actually was faking it to BJGE and throwing it quickly. That is when I thought the Pats figured it out. Why did they stop this approach? The Giants were in big trouble, and we stopped this approach until they made adjustments. All the drives was because of the BJGE and Woodhead factor, I still dont understand why change it?
    Posted by bobbysu


    One of the things the giants did well against one of the things the pats rely on as much or more than any team in the league was limiting the pats YAC. 
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    All in all, Rusty, I got the feeling, again, like I felt in the Ravens game, the Pats were playing NOT TO LOSE!!  They did not grab the game and the Giants by the throat and execute to win.  After the 90+ yard drive to go up 17 - 9, the Pats simply did not play the same again on offense.  Dropped balls, ineffective running game, the O-line giving up late pressure after having done a real good job protecting Brady.  The Pats can't rely on Brady to make the only big plays on the team.  Others have to step up and none really did.  As I posted on another discussion, can you name a Pats player who made a "wow" play last night like a few we saw from the Giants?  Nope!
    Posted by agcsbill


    Agreed. 16 straight pass completions, up 17-9, you have your opponent by the throat and you ought to be as confident as you have ever been, then they don't score again. Really? Sure doesn't remind you of the great closer teams/QB's.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    You only proving the point that they need More WR depth and a deep threat. IF WELKER leaves then they 2 WRS.  Welker is great but not a true deep threat.

    I also agree, WHY did they give up on the running game.  The law firm and the play action.

    The law firm and Welker, gone, that sucks.

     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here : Actually, NE's D was sueprior to that aspect as opposed to the Giants D. Clearly, with Gronk not a factor, they could focus on Welker and Hernandez. ALl week all we heard was how fantastic Manningham, Nick and Cruz were. Well, outside of one big play by Manningham, that trio was held in check very well with really what should have been a masterful gameplan by BB and Patricia. Ochocinco is ignored, Branch isn't infused enough  and of course, a really good RB like BJGE apparently has lepracy and must remain away from others on the offense as much as possible. The differnce was Gilbride outcalled Bill O'Brien by using a run, which protected Eli more, which in turn has been NE's problem in the last 2 SBs.  Pass happy OCs possibly catering to what Brady feels is best. No way around it. When NE throws 40+ times, they lose.  I am glad NY will enjoy another giftwrapped SB.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Russ, I disagree.  the giants have more of a vertical game than a short passing game with YAC as a key element like the Pats.  The pats d did an excellent job taking away Cruz.  The pats also got away with a couple of non-PI calls that easily could have been called. Nicks was excellent with 10 catches and over 100 yds receiving.  Cruz caught a TD, and Manningham had a key catch. 

    Really, the giants d did a great job limiting the pats YAC which has always been important to them.  Further, and Brady is to blame for this, he's become too focused on particular receivers.  I think that hurt him in this game with Gronkowski hobbled.  That said, Belichick had an option to play another receiver other than Gronkowski.  Maybe he shouldn't have cut the receiver saturday night.  That's on Belichick. 

    Further, the large number of throws really isn't an issue.  NYG threw 40 times.  They ran more, but they also controlled the clock more.  They got yardage from their RB's when they needed it. 

    BTW - did you see Gisele doing Tom's dirty work for him?
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here : Russ, I disagree.  the giants have more of a vertical game than a short passing game with YAC as a key element like the Pats.  The pats d did an excellent job taking away Cruz.  The pats also got away with a couple of non-PI calls that easily could have been called. Nicks was excellent with 10 catches and over 100 yds receiving.  Cruz caught a TD, and Manningham had a key catch.  Really, the giants d did a great job limiting the pats YAC which has always been important to them.  Further, and Brady is to blame for this, he's become too focused on particular receivers.  I think that hurt him in this game with Gronkowski hobbled.  That said, Belichick had an option to play another receiver other than Gronkowski.  Maybe he shouldn't have cut the receiver saturday night.  That's on Belichick.  Further, the large number of throws really isn't an issue.  NYG threw 40 times.  They ran more, but they also controlled the clock more.  They got yardage from their RB's when they needed it.  BTW - did you see Gisele doing Tom's dirty work for him?
    Posted by UD6


    Yeah, I've said that Brady has occasionally forgotten how to hit the open receiver vs. forcing a ball to a receiver he has gotten dependent on.  They did have the option to use another receiver apart from Gronk - and they prolly should have (in hindsight done so).

    Knowing that there was a good chance the Giants were going to limit our passing offense - the Patriots should have run the ball more so that they could move the chains. The patriots should have emphasized that there were going to fewer offensive possessions by both teams - and ephasized the importance of scoring points on all of those possessions - even if it meant  just FGs.

    I would disagree with Russ that Law Firm was the only solution - only because I thought we needed 3-4 long running plays during the game - and Ridley was a better calculated risk for that aspect of the game. Overall, I agree with Russ wholeheartedly that a successful running game is very important for this kind of game against a team built like the Giants.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here : Actually, NE's D was sueprior to that aspect as opposed to the Giants D. Clearly, with Gronk not a factor, they could focus on Welker and Hernandez. ALl week all we heard was how fantastic Manningham, Nick and Cruz were. Well, outside of one big play by Manningham, that trio was held in check very well with really what should have been a masterful gameplan by BB and Patricia. Ochocinco is ignored, Branch isn't infused enough  and of course, a really good RB like BJGE apparently has lepracy and must remain away from others on the offense as much as possible. The differnce was Gilbride outcalled Bill O'Brien by using a run, which protected Eli more, which in turn has been NE's problem in the last 2 SBs.  Pass happy OCs possibly catering to what Brady feels is best. No way around it. When NE throws 40+ times, they lose.  I am glad NY will enjoy another giftwrapped SB.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Nicks had a typical Welker game; 10 catches for over 100 yards. You call this holding them in check? Cruz was held in check due to the D-scheme they ran on him. When you key on one player, others open up and that happened yesterday.
    And if it was giftwrapped, then I am sure Giant fans all over the world say thank you. All I know is what the numbers say; total yards, time of possession and score all favor the Giants which tells me that NE dominated nothing except for two great scoring drives which were off-set by two great Giant drives. Everything else tilts towards NY's favor including lady luck. And if you have been watching this game for as longs as I have, you should know that she always makes an appearance at some point.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    Rusty, what you say is well taken. But I think you're giving the D a pass when they failed yet again in the endgame. They also generated no turnovers.

    In a close loss like this there are plenty of targets to point to. It's not just a one way thing.
     
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    Re: I Hate To Be Here

    In Response to Re: I Hate To Be Here:
    A couple of non-PI calls? WHich phantom calls would these be? Did you think when the Giants defender had two arms on Hernandez running a 5 yard crossinig route in desperation, that was also PI? lol I was happy there weren't ticky tack calls on both sides. We don't need that crap in a SB.  The game was well called. Moore had textbook coverage on Nicks. COughlin is wrong. You can one hand on the WR/TE, you just can't spin, hook, hold or tug the jersey. That's textbook. Period.  Fantastic job to lean in and get around Nicks to poke the ball away.  Off screen, we can't even see if our WRs or TEs are being mauled or not. Funny how only the other team supposedly is jobbed on calls. Please.  It's amazing how weak of a human you are. I don't know what the other one was. But, between a sketchy Safety call by the ref and the horrendous clock work by the Colts stadium person on the Pats last drive, I don't want to hear about refs after team just served up another SB to Eli Manning and Co. And no, I have no idea what Gisele's "dirty work" means.
    Posted by RustyGriswold


    Doggie doo is being an agenda driven turd at this juncture. I have to put him on ignore again. He is insufferable when he gets this anal.
     
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