If Talib Isn't Retained

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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to Getzo's comment:

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    Who are your top choices to go after?

    Here are mine in order:

    1. Rodgers-Cromartie

    2. Tracy Porter

    3. Brent Grimes

    I would have no issue going into the 2013 season with one of these guys and Dennard on the corners.

     

     

     



    1. Chris Gamble #1 even over Talib as he is cheaper, maybe better, and less of a wild card. I personnally think he is the patriots #1 CB target

     

    2. Quinton Jammer  as a #2/#3 CB/S

    3. Ed Reed

     

    They could do as they wish with McCourtey, either move him back to CB or have him at Safety. Have Jammer as a Dennard insurance, veteran presence and/or number 2 guy incase the year 2 DB curse strikes again (Dennard). And Ed Reed because it just seems like a classic Bill move to sign a player he loves and admires although I think a 5 million price tag is insane.

     

     




    Good stuff here... but I think Talib is a better corner skill wise than Gamble.  However, I really like how you wanna use jammer.  I think he adds a lot of value to the secondary in many roles.. CB, Safety, Nickle, and Vet Leader.

     

     



    You are probably right about Talib, and the Patriots already know what kind of player/teamate he is and how he fits with what they do.  I am just nervous paying a guy with his kind of history (not to mention his hip problems) 10 million a year.  Not sure what Gamble would cost but I imagine at 30 years old, he'd be more around 6 or 7 mil and I think he would be the safer signing.

     

    I've been wrong before, all I know is I don't think the patriots could go into next season with a rookie and Dennard as their #1 and #2 corners. Would like to see a veteran or 2 or 3 added

     




    And that's why I like the idea of maybe tagging Talib if necessary and getting someone like Jamer or Dunta Robinson on the cheap for solid depth. 

     

    I think we can agree on one thing...  The Pats need a proven Vet or 2 at that position.

     



    Well, they could just bring back Arrington for the slot.  He's the proven vet you're speaking of whether some whiny pink hat chimes in here or not. If he gets #2 money and it's too high, then see ya. Go out and grab a Captain Munnerlyn type for nickel.

     

    Agree on the Talib tag idea as a better option, especially now that Brady has restructured off his new extension. Makes it easier to justify it and in the end might be their best overall move.

     

     

     



    Thinking about it... I am not sure there will be many teams throwing money at Talib... at least I hope.  They can tag him and try and work out an extension during the season if he proves to be a model citizen.

     



    True, but it only takes one to offer a deal the Pats won't match. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to thehub's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    This is quite possible the best thread on this board in a month or so.... just sayin'

     



    I agree and  your post of the available corners was great. I want to learn more about the cox kid. Could we get him on the cheap? 

     



    CB Derek Cox

    Team:  Jacksonville Jaguars Age / DOB:   ( 26) / 9/22/1986 Ht / Wt:   6'1' / 190 College:  William & Mary Contract:  view contract details Share:    Jacksonville Jaguars Latest News Recent News According to the Florida Times Union, the Jaguars want free agent CB Derek Cox back, but "only at the right price." It's an indication Cox won't be back in Jacksonville, as his agent is on the record as expecting a "vigorous" market. Cox is worthy of a nice payday, but could find his market depressed by the glut of available corners. Mar 1 - 10:10 AM
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to braunzy's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to braunzy's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    Who are your top choices to go after?

    Here are mine in order:

    1. Rodgers-Cromartie

    2. Tracy Porter

    3. Brent Grimes

    I would have no issue going into the 2013 season with one of these guys and Dennard on the corners.

     

     

     



    1. Chris Gamble #1 even over Talib as he is cheaper, maybe better, and less of a wild card. I personnally think he is the patriots #1 CB target

     

    2. Quinton Jammer  as a #2/#3 CB/S

    3. Ed Reed

     

    They could do as they wish with McCourtey, either move him back to CB or have him at Safety. Have Jammer as a Dennard insurance, veteran presence and/or number 2 guy incase the year 2 DB curse strikes again (Dennard). And Ed Reed because it just seems like a classic Bill move to sign a player he loves and admires although I think a 5 million price tag is insane.

     

     




    Good stuff here... but I think Talib is a better corner skill wise than Gamble.  However, I really like how you wanna use jammer.  I think he adds a lot of value to the secondary in many roles.. CB, Safety, Nickle, and Vet Leader.

     

     



    You are probably right about Talib, and the Patriots already know what kind of player/teamate he is and how he fits with what they do.  I am just nervous paying a guy with his kind of history (not to mention his hip problems) 10 million a year.  Not sure what Gamble would cost but I imagine at 30 years old, he'd be more around 6 or 7 mil and I think he would be the safer signing.

     

    I've been wrong before, all I know is I don't think the patriots could go into next season with a rookie and Dennard as their #1 and #2 corners. Would like to see a veteran or 2 or 3 added

     




    And that's why I like the idea of maybe tagging Talib if necessary and getting someone like Jamer or Dunta Robinson on the cheap for solid depth. 

     

    I think we can agree on one thing...  The Pats need a proven Vet or 2 at that position.

     



    Well, they could just bring back Arrington for the slot.  He's the proven vet you're speaking of whether some whiny pink hat chimes in here or not. If he gets #2 money and it's too high, then see ya. Go out and grab a Captain Munnerlyn type for nickel.

     

    Agree on the Talib tag idea as a better option, especially now that Brady has restructured off his new extension. Makes it easier to justify it and in the end might be their best overall move.

     

     

     



    Thinking about it... I am not sure there will be many teams throwing money at Talib... at least I hope.  They can tag him and try and work out an extension during the season if he proves to be a model citizen.

     



    Like it. My thoughts have changed on Talib since joining the Pats (coincidence?), as I don't think he's as bad of a person as he was made out to be.  I am a little bit scared of his hip problems to be honest and hope it does not become a chronic issue for him, I don't know much of what was going on with his hip last year and it may just take an offseason of rehab/rest to fix.

     

    My idea was to have a combo of gamble, jammer, reed. Would gladley take a combo of Talib, jammer and reed. Don't know how much that would cost, but it would be a pretty decent secondary on paper if you ask me

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from thehub. Show thehub's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    This is quite possible the best thread on this board in a month or so.... just sayin'

     



    I agree and  your post of the available corners was great. I want to learn more about the cox kid. Could we get him on the cheap? 

     

     



    CB Derek Cox

     

    Team:  Jacksonville Jaguars Age / DOB:   ( 26) / 9/22/1986 Ht / Wt:   6'1' / 190 College:  William & Mary Contract:  view contract details Share:    Jacksonville Jaguars Latest News Recent News According to the Florida Times Union, the Jaguars want free agent CB Derek Cox back, but "only at the right price." It's an indication Cox won't be back in Jacksonville, as his agent is on the record as expecting a "vigorous" market. Cox is worthy of a nice payday, but could find his market depressed by the glut of available corners. Mar 1 - 10:10 AM



    Great size. Great age. For the right price why not take a shot on a ball hawk? We need depth as we always face injuries in the back field. This one could be a late sign when the market drys up. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to braunzy's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to braunzy's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to braunzy's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    Who are your top choices to go after?

    Here are mine in order:

    1. Rodgers-Cromartie

    2. Tracy Porter

    3. Brent Grimes

    I would have no issue going into the 2013 season with one of these guys and Dennard on the corners.

     

     

     



    1. Chris Gamble #1 even over Talib as he is cheaper, maybe better, and less of a wild card. I personnally think he is the patriots #1 CB target

     

    2. Quinton Jammer  as a #2/#3 CB/S

    3. Ed Reed

     

    They could do as they wish with McCourtey, either move him back to CB or have him at Safety. Have Jammer as a Dennard insurance, veteran presence and/or number 2 guy incase the year 2 DB curse strikes again (Dennard). And Ed Reed because it just seems like a classic Bill move to sign a player he loves and admires although I think a 5 million price tag is insane.

     

     




    Good stuff here... but I think Talib is a better corner skill wise than Gamble.  However, I really like how you wanna use jammer.  I think he adds a lot of value to the secondary in many roles.. CB, Safety, Nickle, and Vet Leader.

     

     



    You are probably right about Talib, and the Patriots already know what kind of player/teamate he is and how he fits with what they do.  I am just nervous paying a guy with his kind of history (not to mention his hip problems) 10 million a year.  Not sure what Gamble would cost but I imagine at 30 years old, he'd be more around 6 or 7 mil and I think he would be the safer signing.

     

    I've been wrong before, all I know is I don't think the patriots could go into next season with a rookie and Dennard as their #1 and #2 corners. Would like to see a veteran or 2 or 3 added

     




    And that's why I like the idea of maybe tagging Talib if necessary and getting someone like Jamer or Dunta Robinson on the cheap for solid depth. 

     

    I think we can agree on one thing...  The Pats need a proven Vet or 2 at that position.

     



    Well, they could just bring back Arrington for the slot.  He's the proven vet you're speaking of whether some whiny pink hat chimes in here or not. If he gets #2 money and it's too high, then see ya. Go out and grab a Captain Munnerlyn type for nickel.

     

    Agree on the Talib tag idea as a better option, especially now that Brady has restructured off his new extension. Makes it easier to justify it and in the end might be their best overall move.

     

     

     



    Thinking about it... I am not sure there will be many teams throwing money at Talib... at least I hope.  They can tag him and try and work out an extension during the season if he proves to be a model citizen.

     

     



    Like it. My thoughts have changed on Talib since joining the Pats (coincidence?), as I don't think he's as bad of a person as he was made out to be.  I am a little bit scared of his hip problems to be honest and hope it does not become a chronic issue for him, I don't know much of what was going on with his hip last year and it may just take an offseason of rehab/rest to fix.

     

     

    My idea was to have a combo of gamble, jammer, reed. Would gladley take a combo of Talib, jammer and reed. Don't know how much that would cost, but it would be a pretty decent secondary on paper if you ask me




    If any of those scenarios played out, I think we Pats fans have to be happy that BB tried to shore up the secondary. 

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    This is quite possible the best thread on this board in a month or so.... just sayin'

     



    I agree and  your post of the available corners was great. I want to learn more about the cox kid. Could we get him on the cheap? 

     

     



    CB Derek Cox

     

    Team:  Jacksonville Jaguars Age / DOB:   ( 26) / 9/22/1986 Ht / Wt:   6'1' / 190 College:  William & Mary Contract:  view contract details Share:    Jacksonville Jaguars Latest News Recent News According to the Florida Times Union, the Jaguars want free agent CB Derek Cox back, but "only at the right price." It's an indication Cox won't be back in Jacksonville, as his agent is on the record as expecting a "vigorous" market. Cox is worthy of a nice payday, but could find his market depressed by the glut of available corners. Mar 1 - 10:10 AM



    Great size. Great age. For the right price why not take a shot on a ball hawk? We need depth as we always face injuries in the back field. This one could be a late sign when the market drys up. 

     

     


    If I'm the Patriots, I would be interested in him.

     

    Just wonder how the heck a team like Jacksonville could let go of a young promising CB like Cox??? I don't think he gets away personally, but it is the Jags I guess... If I remember correctly he had a decent game against the Pats this past year, so I'm sure the scouting staff took notice!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    This is quite possible the best thread on this board in a month or so.... just sayin'

     



    I agree and  your post of the available corners was great. I want to learn more about the cox kid. Could we get him on the cheap? 

     

     



    CB Derek Cox

     

    Team:  Jacksonville Jaguars Age / DOB:   ( 26) / 9/22/1986 Ht / Wt:   6'1' / 190 College:  William & Mary Contract:  view contract details Share:    Jacksonville Jaguars Latest News Recent News According to the Florida Times Union, the Jaguars want free agent CB Derek Cox back, but "only at the right price." It's an indication Cox won't be back in Jacksonville, as his agent is on the record as expecting a "vigorous" market. Cox is worthy of a nice payday, but could find his market depressed by the glut of available corners. Mar 1 - 10:10 AM




    Good. Add him to the list.  I don't agree with the "vigorous market" line from his agent, though. It's contradictory. The flood of good CBs with various levels of experience hurts his client. Supply and demand.   Too much supply really for many positions now and after next season.

    GMs and teams with good cap space have the leverage.


    So, it's not that "vigorous" because it implies his client can get a top dollar market deal.

    Don't have much to comment on with Cox other than I recall one or more people here commenting on him in last year's December match up with NE. Ironically, Cox was a 7th rd pick, a pick they acquired from us. lol

    Just don't know if he's #1 material.  Talib, to me, is #1 material.  The closest thing to #1 material in the market, and it's only because they've played in big games and have been essentially #1s are the guys on my list. Rodgers-Cromartie, Porter and Grimes.

    It'd be nice to have a guy who has that playoff experience. I realize Talib really doesn't other than Houston game, but I also think Talib is more talented than these above names.

     

     

     




    Well the biggest game of his career, Talib shut out Bolden one on one for an entire half.  The he got hurt.  I think Talib can embrace the moment as he was plugged in mid season and immediately showed he is a number 1 if not entirely shut down.  The dude took an upper and punches people in the face.  He just needs to grow up off the field.  it seems his work ethic and locker room presence was just fine as a Pat.

     
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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to braunzy's comment:

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    This is quite possible the best thread on this board in a month or so.... just sayin'

     



    I agree and  your post of the available corners was great. I want to learn more about the cox kid. Could we get him on the cheap? 

     

     



    CB Derek Cox

     

    Team:  Jacksonville Jaguars Age / DOB:   ( 26) / 9/22/1986 Ht / Wt:   6'1' / 190 College:  William & Mary Contract:  view contract details Share:    Jacksonville Jaguars Latest News Recent News According to the Florida Times Union, the Jaguars want free agent CB Derek Cox back, but "only at the right price." It's an indication Cox won't be back in Jacksonville, as his agent is on the record as expecting a "vigorous" market. Cox is worthy of a nice payday, but could find his market depressed by the glut of available corners. Mar 1 - 10:10 AM



    Great size. Great age. For the right price why not take a shot on a ball hawk? We need depth as we always face injuries in the back field. This one could be a late sign when the market drys up. 

     

     


    If I'm the Patriots, I would be interested in him.

     

    Just wonder how the heck a team like Jacksonville let go of a young promising CB like Cox??? I don't think he gets away personally, but it is the Jags I guess... If I remember correctly he had a decent game against the Pats this past year, so I'm sure the scouting staff took notice!



    You answered your own question......it's the Jags! I think they are concerned about his injuries. He missed 14 games that past two seasons. Tough to get paid if you are not on the field. 

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to thehub's comment:

    In response to braunzy's comment:

     

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to thehub's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    This is quite possible the best thread on this board in a month or so.... just sayin'

     



    I agree and  your post of the available corners was great. I want to learn more about the cox kid. Could we get him on the cheap? 

     

     



    CB Derek Cox

     

    Team:  Jacksonville Jaguars Age / DOB:   ( 26) / 9/22/1986 Ht / Wt:   6'1' / 190 College:  William & Mary Contract:  view contract details Share:    Jacksonville Jaguars Latest News Recent News According to the Florida Times Union, the Jaguars want free agent CB Derek Cox back, but "only at the right price." It's an indication Cox won't be back in Jacksonville, as his agent is on the record as expecting a "vigorous" market. Cox is worthy of a nice payday, but could find his market depressed by the glut of available corners. Mar 1 - 10:10 AM



    Great size. Great age. For the right price why not take a shot on a ball hawk? We need depth as we always face injuries in the back field. This one could be a late sign when the market drys up. 

     

     


    If I'm the Patriots, I would be interested in him.

     

    Just wonder how the heck a team like Jacksonville let go of a young promising CB like Cox??? I don't think he gets away personally, but it is the Jags I guess... If I remember correctly he had a decent game against the Pats this past year, so I'm sure the scouting staff took notice!

     



    You answered your own question......it's the Jags! I think they are concerned about his injuries. He missed 14 games that past two seasons. Tough to get paid if you are not on the field. 

     




    Makes sense, wasn't aware of his injuries. I don't really know much about him, probably because he plays for the Jags and you don't hear much about them here in Canada

     
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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    I've been intrigued by Grimes if he's recovered well from the injury. Jammer would be nice depth. I like re-signing Talib too.  Corner is a position where it's worth investing some money for at least one top one.  Think this is a good position to use some of our cap space.

     
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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.

     
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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.




    Lose another proven CB?  Hope ras-I contributes and stays healthy?  Moving McCourty back to CB?  Draft another CB?

    mThurl I respect your posts, but i honestly could not disagree more.  All the things you pointed out have been epic failures to this team.  drafting CB's has been rather tough and finally Dennard looks like a hit.  I know Ras-I looked good and I hope he contributes but we cannot count on him.  McCourty looks better suited as a safety but can help out at CB in a pinch.  This team needs to sign a few CB's that are proven or at least get a number 1 if possible. 

    I know Talib has red flags, but you can't say it was his decision not to come back out on the field.  A team doctor or BB himself said shut it down.  I would think Talib loved being able to play only his second playoff game ever, and especially in the AFC championship game.  Heath is a commentator now... not a Pat.

    This teams needs to spend some green on this secondary.  Not everything they have, but they need to allocate some money on proven players. no more guessing.

     
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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to Getzo's comment:

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    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.

     




    Lose another proven CB?  Hope ras-I contributes and stays healthy?  Moving McCourty back to CB?  Draft another CB?

     

    mThurl I respect your posts, but i honestly could not disagree more.  All the things you pointed out have been epic failures to this team.  drafting CB's has been rather tough and finally Dennard looks like a hit.  I know Ras-I looked good and I hope he contributes but we cannot count on him.  McCourty looks better suited as a safety but can help out at CB in a pinch.  This team needs to sign a few CB's that are proven or at least get a number 1 if possible. 

    I know Talib has red flags, but you can't say it was his decision not to come back out on the field.  A team doctor or BB himself said shut it down.  I would think Talib loved being able to play only his second playoff game ever, and especially in the AFC championship game.  Heath is a commentator now... not a Pat.

    This teams needs to spend some green on this secondary.  Not everything they have, but they need to allocate some money on proven players. no more guessing.



    Ok, but would you spend it on Talib? I don't think I would. And I did mention a name player being added to the roster...Goldson. To me Goldson would have a trickle down affect on the entire secondary, but I understand what you are saying, there is a lot of risk of letting an unproven player come in and contribute at this point.

     
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    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to mthurl's comment:

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    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.

     




    Lose another proven CB?  Hope ras-I contributes and stays healthy?  Moving McCourty back to CB?  Draft another CB?

     

    mThurl I respect your posts, but i honestly could not disagree more.  All the things you pointed out have been epic failures to this team.  drafting CB's has been rather tough and finally Dennard looks like a hit.  I know Ras-I looked good and I hope he contributes but we cannot count on him.  McCourty looks better suited as a safety but can help out at CB in a pinch.  This team needs to sign a few CB's that are proven or at least get a number 1 if possible. 

    I know Talib has red flags, but you can't say it was his decision not to come back out on the field.  A team doctor or BB himself said shut it down.  I would think Talib loved being able to play only his second playoff game ever, and especially in the AFC championship game.  Heath is a commentator now... not a Pat.

    This teams needs to spend some green on this secondary.  Not everything they have, but they need to allocate some money on proven players. no more guessing.

     



    Ok, but would you spend it on Talib? I don't think I would. And I did mention a name player being added to the roster...Goldson. To me Goldson would have a trickle down affect on the entire secondary, but I understand what you are saying, there is a lot of risk of letting an unproven player come in and contribute at this point.

     




    IMO Goldson is a bit overrated as a safety coverage wise.  He is a great starting SS, but I don't feel he would change our secondary they was a coverage corner would. I absolutely think coverage is area of need, especially from the CB spot.  I'd rather save some cash and sign someone like Reed for our safety spot if he becomes available.  I think Goldson is trying to be paid first and foremost. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.

     




    Lose another proven CB?  Hope ras-I contributes and stays healthy?  Moving McCourty back to CB?  Draft another CB?

     

    mThurl I respect your posts, but i honestly could not disagree more.  All the things you pointed out have been epic failures to this team.  drafting CB's has been rather tough and finally Dennard looks like a hit.  I know Ras-I looked good and I hope he contributes but we cannot count on him.  McCourty looks better suited as a safety but can help out at CB in a pinch.  This team needs to sign a few CB's that are proven or at least get a number 1 if possible. 

    I know Talib has red flags, but you can't say it was his decision not to come back out on the field.  A team doctor or BB himself said shut it down.  I would think Talib loved being able to play only his second playoff game ever, and especially in the AFC championship game.  Heath is a commentator now... not a Pat.

    This teams needs to spend some green on this secondary.  Not everything they have, but they need to allocate some money on proven players. no more guessing.

     



    Ok, but would you spend it on Talib? I don't think I would. And I did mention a name player being added to the roster...Goldson. To me Goldson would have a trickle down affect on the entire secondary, but I understand what you are saying, there is a lot of risk of letting an unproven player come in and contribute at this point.

     

     




    IMO Goldson is a bit overrated as a safety coverage wise.  He is a great starting SS, but I don't feel he would change our secondary they was a coverage corner would. I absolutely think coverage is area of need, especially from the CB spot.  I'd rather save some cash and sign someone like Reed for our safety spot if he becomes available.  I think Goldson is trying to be paid first and foremost. 

     




    I agree, would rather spend the 6+ million on a different player/players. If they sign him I do think our secondary is improved, but I think the money could be even better spent in other ways.  

    I think because there aren't too many great safeties in the league Goldson gets overhyped.  I do think McCourty can be better than Goldson for this team with a full training camp under his belt at the safety position and a good complementary player beside him (and quality corner's playing with him!!).  

    Goldson would be my option if they don't sign any #1 or #2 quality corners in FA and have to move McCourtey back to CB.  Dennard Reed (?) Goldson McCourty could be decent, but a lot of $ spent on the safety position though!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to braunzy's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.

     




    Lose another proven CB?  Hope ras-I contributes and stays healthy?  Moving McCourty back to CB?  Draft another CB?

     

    mThurl I respect your posts, but i honestly could not disagree more.  All the things you pointed out have been epic failures to this team.  drafting CB's has been rather tough and finally Dennard looks like a hit.  I know Ras-I looked good and I hope he contributes but we cannot count on him.  McCourty looks better suited as a safety but can help out at CB in a pinch.  This team needs to sign a few CB's that are proven or at least get a number 1 if possible. 

    I know Talib has red flags, but you can't say it was his decision not to come back out on the field.  A team doctor or BB himself said shut it down.  I would think Talib loved being able to play only his second playoff game ever, and especially in the AFC championship game.  Heath is a commentator now... not a Pat.

    This teams needs to spend some green on this secondary.  Not everything they have, but they need to allocate some money on proven players. no more guessing.

     



    Ok, but would you spend it on Talib? I don't think I would. And I did mention a name player being added to the roster...Goldson. To me Goldson would have a trickle down affect on the entire secondary, but I understand what you are saying, there is a lot of risk of letting an unproven player come in and contribute at this point.

     

     




    IMO Goldson is a bit overrated as a safety coverage wise.  He is a great starting SS, but I don't feel he would change our secondary they was a coverage corner would. I absolutely think coverage is area of need, especially from the CB spot.  I'd rather save some cash and sign someone like Reed for our safety spot if he becomes available.  I think Goldson is trying to be paid first and foremost. 

     

     




     

    I agree, would rather spend the 6+ million on a different player/players. If they sign him I do think our secondary is improved, but I think the money could be even better spent in other ways.  

    I think because there aren't too many great safeties in the league Goldson gets overhyped.  I do think McCourty can be better than Goldson for this team with a full training camp under his belt at the safety position and a good complementary player beside him (and quality corner's playing with him!!).  

    Goldson would be my option if they don't sign any #1 or #2 quality corners in FA and have to move McCourtey back to CB.  Dennard Reed (?) Goldson McCourty could be decent, but a lot of $ spent on the safety position though!




    I think you nailed it when you said there aren't many great safeties.  Tmurl said he thinks ras-I should be the one to step up, but he's shown and can't stay healthy.(I like his play when he is on the field, but he really cannot stay on the field.)  If anything Tavon Wilson should be the one to step and show what he has at the safety spot.  This training camp will dictate were he is and is going to be as a football player.  That's why I almost prefer a cheaper option of Reed, who IMO is more of a impact player than Goldston even at his age. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to braunzy's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I know this subject has been beaten to death since the end of the season (general Talib threads, etc.), but why not just let him test the market? If he doesn't come back we could always draft another corner, plus we have Dowling. Personally I'd spend the money on Goldson, move McCourty back to corner..we have Dennard...make Dowling get out there...we drafted Tavon Wilson high to play safety (put him out there, sink or swim). Cut Gregory - it was a mistake to sign him - the guy can't do anything...he doesn't have size, speed, durability, athletisism. Last year I watched guys run right by Gregory on the outside as if he wasn't even there - no one is scared of this guy - he needs to go.

    This Talib thing is a very tough decision, I like his game, but I wouldn't sign a guy that gets hurt that much or has his off field history. Heath Evans was on the radio the other day saying he was shocked that Talib didn't at least try to go back into that playoff game. He said there was no way a guy like himself, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel or McGinnest would of done something like that...he went on to list some injuries these guys went back out onto the field with during playoff time. He said the guy should of at least gave it a try and if he was hurting the team he then could of went to the coaches and had himself pulled. Evans went on to say the entire game plan went down the tubes when Talib went to the sidelines with his jacket on...he's right.

     




    Lose another proven CB?  Hope ras-I contributes and stays healthy?  Moving McCourty back to CB?  Draft another CB?

     

    mThurl I respect your posts, but i honestly could not disagree more.  All the things you pointed out have been epic failures to this team.  drafting CB's has been rather tough and finally Dennard looks like a hit.  I know Ras-I looked good and I hope he contributes but we cannot count on him.  McCourty looks better suited as a safety but can help out at CB in a pinch.  This team needs to sign a few CB's that are proven or at least get a number 1 if possible. 

    I know Talib has red flags, but you can't say it was his decision not to come back out on the field.  A team doctor or BB himself said shut it down.  I would think Talib loved being able to play only his second playoff game ever, and especially in the AFC championship game.  Heath is a commentator now... not a Pat.

    This teams needs to spend some green on this secondary.  Not everything they have, but they need to allocate some money on proven players. no more guessing.

     



    Ok, but would you spend it on Talib? I don't think I would. And I did mention a name player being added to the roster...Goldson. To me Goldson would have a trickle down affect on the entire secondary, but I understand what you are saying, there is a lot of risk of letting an unproven player come in and contribute at this point.

     

     




    IMO Goldson is a bit overrated as a safety coverage wise.  He is a great starting SS, but I don't feel he would change our secondary they was a coverage corner would. I absolutely think coverage is area of need, especially from the CB spot.  I'd rather save some cash and sign someone like Reed for our safety spot if he becomes available.  I think Goldson is trying to be paid first and foremost. 

     

     




     

    I agree, would rather spend the 6+ million on a different player/players. If they sign him I do think our secondary is improved, but I think the money could be even better spent in other ways.  

    I think because there aren't too many great safeties in the league Goldson gets overhyped.  I do think McCourty can be better than Goldson for this team with a full training camp under his belt at the safety position and a good complementary player beside him (and quality corner's playing with him!!).  

    Goldson would be my option if they don't sign any #1 or #2 quality corners in FA and have to move McCourtey back to CB.  Dennard Reed (?) Goldson McCourty could be decent, but a lot of $ spent on the safety position though!

     




    I think you nailed it when you said there aren't many great safeties.  Tmurl said he thinks ras-I should be the one to step up, but he's shown and can't stay healthy.(I like his play when he is on the field, but he really cannot stay on the field.)  If anything Tavon Wilson should be the one to step and show what he has at the safety spot.  This training camp will dictate were he is and is going to be as a football player.  That's why I almost prefer a cheaper option of Reed, who IMO is more of a impact player than Goldston even at his age. 

     



    I would love for Dowling to step up and become an impact player for this secondary. Bill drafted him high to be a starter somewhere on this defense.  I remember when he was drafted thinking he was being picked to be a Free Safety.  I think anything we get out of Dowling is a bonus, I sure hope he has some luck this year. Hate to see talent like he has (33rd overall talent), at potentially 2 positions of need for the patriots, being wasted because of injuries.

    Best of luck to Dowling, from what I remember hearing he is a real good person too, which makes it difficult not to root for the guy.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    Funny i still prefer Talib over all these guys,but at the right price. Grimes if Taliban bolts. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    I think we all agree with you Hannah.  The guy made an amazing difference for our defense. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    My thoughts - franchise tag is just too much money for Talib, and even the transition tag is very high. There are a number of good corners on the FA market this year, and only a few teams with available money who need to bring in upgrades at the position so why overpay. I think in general free agency is going to be a buyers market as a lot of teams have overspent in recent years and are wary or can't spend this year.

    I am also not convinced that Talib is that 'great'. No question the pass defense improved with him starting, Devon moving to safety and Dennard starting opposite - but a lot of that was a change to a more aggressive approach. Yes the approach was made possible by better corner play, but I just didn't think Talib was particularly special. Most of the expert analysis I've read including PFF has him in the middle of the FA pack for CBs. And between suspension and injury he missed a lot of time last year. 

    I am not opposed to resigning him but ... 8.9M transition vs. signing him or one of the other equally rated corners for 6-7M and using the 2+M on other depth issues or to add money to another FA contract makes more sense. We could probably double our chances and sign two CBs at 6M and 3M rather than gambling on the transition tag to Talib.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: If Talib Isn't Retained

    in Florida, but hearing second hand that the Pats feel Talib is better than most any CB on the market. They are also very concerned about the $$$ CB's will get even witrh a glut available...

    Pats may franchise or transition Talib today pending how the last minute negotiations with his agent go today.

    I could be happy with Talib, Dennerd, Arrington and maybe Ras as CB next year. WOuldnt surprise me if the Pats go with McCourt, Wilson, Gregory and a free agent AND a high draft choice at S.

     
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