If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    Coolade,

    I agree with you.  And frankly, its hard to blame Brady for it.  Welker always finds a way to get open.  Welker is tough.  Welker takes hits.  Welker gets extra yards.  Welker's quick routes allows Brady to get rid of the ball quickly and to eliminate any potential pass rush.  And btw, Brady generally throws a great short ball. 

    That said, if Brady is focusing too much on Welker (and maybe the opposition has decided to go ahead and give Brady those opportunities and shut down everything else) then other players don't get involved, maybe don't play as hard every play and stagnate the potential versatility of the offense. 

    Its a good point.  BTW - I am not sure that Brady trusts hernandez or any other receiver other than Gronkowski. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    The Patriots will have one of the softest, least talented offense in the league!  And it will yet again be another wasted season!  How does that strike you?

     



    First I think , and have written it here many times, that they need to at least attempt to keep Wes. I personally think Edleman has more physical ability than Welker. He's as quick, faster, and a much better blocker.

    The two major problems are 1) He's not nearly as durable as Wes. 2) He's not in the Brady binkie category.

    You forgot Ballard who by the way can at least block AND hopefully they would use him. They had Fells but did not use him. Why? Have no idea. At least he can block for you when the other team is in it's sub defense so you can take advantage of the running game. HooMan and Hernandez can NOT block. They ARE useless in that role.

    Before you make any decisions what are the Paatriots going to do as an offense. Gronk Hernandez and Wes all work the same parts of the field as their strongest parts of their games.

    I believe it is why they started the year with Gronk and Hernandez at TE and Llyod and Edelman outside. More evenly balanced across the field. They need to decide what direction they want to take first, before any of these questions can be answered.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    The Patriots will have one of the softest, least talented offense in the league!  And it will yet again be another wasted season!  How does that strike you?

     

     



    First I think , and have written it here many times, that they need to at least attempt to keep Wes. I personally think Edleman has more physical ability than Welker. He's as quick, faster, and a much better blocker.

     

    The two major problems are 1) He's not nearly as durable as Wes. 2) He's not in the Brady binkie category.

    You forgot Ballard who by the way can at least block AND hopefully they would use him. They had Fells but did not use him. Why? Have no idea. At least he can block for you when the other team is in it's sub defense so you can take advantage of the running game. HooMan and Hernandez can NOT block. They ARE useless in that role.

    Before you make any decisions what are the Paatriots going to do as an offense. Gronk Hernandez and Wes all work the same parts of the field as their strongest parts of their games.

    I believe it is why they started the year with Gronk and Hernandez at TE and Llyod and Edelman outside. More evenly balanced across the field. They need to decide what direction they want to take first, before any of these questions can be answered.




    It's amazing, prior to the season threads were all over this board saying Edelman needs to go and Edelman was on the bubble.  Now people are saying he is Welkers replacement! What?  Based on what?  Edelman can not get the seperation Welker does.  Edelman drops more passes then Welker does.  Edelman has a very hard time adjusting and catching a deep ball.  He just doesn't cause the same type of mismatches Welker causes.  He doesn't have even close to the talent Welker has.  and the biggie... Defenses don't fear Edelman. 

    Welker covers the short to mid fields.  The TE's cover the mid field and a deep threat would spread the defense with the deep threat.  D's can't cover the entire field. So I disagree with your statement that Welker and TE's cover the same part of the field.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    Pats don't need a number 1. Ravens don't have a true number 1 and they turned out okay. 49ers have a number 1 and an old Moss and theyre doing okay.

    Russel Wilson has like all #3 WRs, and he was 30 seconds away from winning the divisional round, and maybe from the Super Bowl (I give them a better shot of beating the 49ers than the Falcons). If not for the 1pm start time, they might have won that ATL game.

     

    Pats need more WR depth. They came into the game with 3 WRs, two of them are #2 WRs (Lloyd and Welker) and the other is like a #11 WR (Branch). The team already paid Gronk and Hern to be #1 and #2 options. Handing out another 5 year contract at an average of 8 years annually seems like a terrible investment. $40 million for another number 3 option, whether it's Hernandez or this WR you guys want, is just too much. At least with Welker they can either franchise him or get him on a short term deal.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    The Patriots will have one of the softest, least talented offense in the league!  And it will yet again be another wasted season!  How does that strike you?

     

     



    First I think , and have written it here many times, that they need to at least attempt to keep Wes. I personally think Edleman has more physical ability than Welker. He's as quick, faster, and a much better blocker.

     

    The two major problems are 1) He's not nearly as durable as Wes. 2) He's not in the Brady binkie category.

    You forgot Ballard who by the way can at least block AND hopefully they would use him. They had Fells but did not use him. Why? Have no idea. At least he can block for you when the other team is in it's sub defense so you can take advantage of the running game. HooMan and Hernandez can NOT block. They ARE useless in that role.

    Before you make any decisions what are the Paatriots going to do as an offense. Gronk Hernandez and Wes all work the same parts of the field as their strongest parts of their games.

    I believe it is why they started the year with Gronk and Hernandez at TE and Llyod and Edelman outside. More evenly balanced across the field. They need to decide what direction they want to take first, before any of these questions can be answered.

     




    It's amazing, prior to the season threads were all over this board saying Edelman needs to go and Edelman was on the bubble.  Now people are saying he is Welkers replacement! What?  Based on what?  Edelman can not get the seperation Welker does.  Edelman drops more passes then Welker does.  Edelman has a very hard time adjusting and catching a deep ball.  He just doesn't cause the same type of mismatches Welker causes.  He doesn't have even close to the talent Welker has.  and the biggie... Defenses don't fear Edelman. 

     

    Welker covers the short to mid fields.  The TE's cover the mid field and a deep threat would spread the defense with the deep threat.  D's can't cover the entire field. So I disagree with your statement that Welker and TE's cover the same part of the field.




    I have never ever mentioned this as a talent assesment. I questioned it at one point because the Patriots never seemed to use him going into this season. Which I proclaimed was a mistake. ...but if they were never going to play him and get him the ball then I wondered if they would ever cut him.

    The Pats used him in 2009 in the playoff game vs the Ravens when welker went down in the last game. He performed excellently.

    Targeted 8 times - 6 receptions for 44 yards and 2 TD's (a rookie converted QB against a younger #3 rated Ravens Defense,and part of a #3 rated Pats offense)

    Then the Pats unexplicably fail by hardly getting him involved in the offense by using one of their better explosive weapons with the ball in his hands in the open field for TWO years.

    22 targets in TWO whole years. Why? He had already proven himself. Sorry but BB, Brady,  the OC or who ever f'd up by not getting him more reps, touches, experience. You find ways to get dynamic athletes the ball in their hands. I always chalked it up to Brady not trusting him to be on the same page as him so he did not get targeted or playing time.

    Then magically in 2012 he becomes a starter. What a waste of valuable playing time missed the previous two seasons. AS I mentioned in the previous post, he's not durable. Missing 3 games in 2011 and only playing 9 this year.

    In Wes's first 4 years with the Pats he avg. 10.475 yrds per catch

    In Edelmans first 4 years with the Pats he avg. 10.425 yrds per catch

    This past season Welker played all 16 games and caught 6 TD's

    Edleman played 9 games and caught 3 TD's

    The biggest disparity is how often they are targeted. That does not equal who's open. That equals who's Tom's binkie. A point I have made many times on here over the years. Tom's favorite receiver is not who's open. Tom's favorite receiver is his presnap read, then his favorite receiver or two, then who's open. As is with all great QB's. TB is no different.

    In this recent playoff game Welker was targeted 12 times - 8 receptions for 117 yards and 1 TD (a seasoned veteran WR against and older #17 rated Ravens defense, and part of a #1 rated Pats offense)

    Comparing all of that, including those two playoff performances against the Ravens, yes I guess we disagree on Edlemna being a dynamic athlete and capable WR.

    I don't have a single favorite player on the Pats so its easy for me to be objective because I have zero emotion invested in a single player. Just the performance of them all and the team as a unit. If a player I think is awesome makes a blunder or two or has a horrible game in general then I will voice my opinion about it.

    Most importantly I do not know why you are all worked up since I started the whole thing off saying they need to attempt to keep welker because he's the only durable WR that can also read and adjust to a defense, has Brady's trust, etc on the roster currently.

    Lets be real though. Even as I am a Welker fan. Defenses respect Welker but they don't fear him. They account for him. ...but you only typically "fear" big play, quick strike, or red zone threat, ability. I think Gronk would be the only guy a defense would fear other than Brady, generally speaking.

    Lastly, I have no idea where you come up with all that stuff about Edelman. We certainly agree to disagree on the gap in ability between he and Welker. They have slightly different strengths but they are close enough with Welker being a better, because of far more experience, receiver, as well as more durable and Edelman getting my personal nod on overall dynamic athletic ability.

    I think you are making a common mistake and thinking by me speaking well of Edleman in some way I am disparaging Welker some how. Not the case.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    Don't mess with the Quarterbacks favorite weapon, bad for the Team.

    I'm hopeful the Pats and Welker can work out a deal that works for both. I know that last year they could not but perhaps time has allowed more reflection and something gets done.

     

    Think about who your other wideouts on the team are, seriously, it's a complete joke. I would have thought this Team learned their lesson in 06 when they gave Brady nothing to work with but I guess not.

    What's that saying...he who fails to learn from the past is doomed to repeat it in the future.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    The Pats used him in 2009 in the playoff game vs the Ravens when welker went down in the last game. He performed excellently.

    Targeted 8 times - 6 receptions for 44 yards and 2 TD's (a rookie converted QB against a younger #3 rated Ravens Defense,and part of a #3 rated Pats offense)

     



    Production of 8 targets, 6 receptions for 44 yards is not excellent.  Now the two td's are excellent but I would say that had more to do with the defense playing close attention to Moss and not worring about a rookie converted QB to WR. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    Unless Welker is willing to take less than top dollar he wont' be in a Patriots uniform next year and I think we as fans should get used to that.  I think Edelman is a more than serviceable receiver and has a different skill set than Welker.  If/when Wes departs I see his role being filled by a combination of several possible options including Hern, Gronk, Edelman and possibly Vereen.  Perhaps even a receiver to be named later.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LHNYJ. Show LHNYJ's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    If Welker gets traded and Gronk keeps getting hurt the pats will replace them with two other players . That's the way it usually works.

     Everyone is replaceable and if your boyfriend TFB keeps wetting the bed in the playoffs the pats will looking to replace him too.

    Out with the old and in with the new. The what have you done for me lately thought process is alive and well in the NFL...and it should be.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: If the Pats let Welker go and Gronk gets hurt...

    Edelman is not an exact replica of Welker, but he can be a reasonable replacement or at least a more involved part of the receiving corps if Welker stays. He certainly can be a whole lot better than Branch.

    I really don't see why Edelman can't give to the Pats what Cobb gives to the Packers. Similar ability, maybe not as fast at the top end, but not far off. 

     

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