Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DuncanOrange. Show DuncanOrange's posts

    Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Talk about a nightmare for an interior offensive line.  Haynesworth is a troubled player, but the NFL is filled with great troubled players.  He wants to plays DT in the 4-3, so let him.  Haynesworth can collapse the pocket as well as any DT since Warren Sapp in his prime.  Plus it's a low risk move for a 5th round pick and a 5 million dollar salary. 

    All we need is one year out of a motivated Haynesworth to make this deal work.  And hopefully he wants to stick it to Shanahan and his critics and prove he's worth that big contract he signed.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    No good sir, what really get's me excited is the thought of Mayo and Spikes having zero trash to work thru in a base front, an offensive line will have to devote a least 3 players to block Haynesworth and 'Fork....that's an absolutely monstrous pairing IF IF IF Albert comes to play.  Low risk, high reward.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    It will give us back that dominant front we've been missing since Seymour departed.  That was the key to our defense because the opposing QB couldn't sit in the pocket and needed to make quick decisions where they often got burned due to BB's multiple defensive packages and disguises. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    In Response to Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....:
    Talk about a nightmare for an interior offensive line.  Haynesworth is a troubled player, but the NFL is filled with great troubled players.  He wants to plays DT in the 4-3, so let him.  Haynesworth can collapse the pocket as well as any DT since Warren Sapp in his prime.  Plus it's a low risk move for a 5th round pick and a 5 million dollar salary.  All we need is one year out of a motivated Haynesworth to make this deal work.  And hopefully he wants to stick it to Shanahan and his critics and prove he's worth that big contract he signed.
    Posted by DuncanOrange


    Yeah, Duncan, I can imagine it. And BB just might do it. We have not gotten the murderous OLB all of us have wanted to get. But with a healthy Bodden we've got a solid defensive backfield and with Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham, Fletcher et al, I'm sure we can field a strong LB corps for various situations.

    If the Haynesworth deal goes through (and Big Al is motivated), I could see us playing 4-3 for 2/3rds of the defensive snaps--perhaps even more.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DuncanOrange. Show DuncanOrange's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Plus Haynesworth will be going to a veteran locker room unlike he had in Washington.   And when there's no financial risk, a player like Haynesworth doesn't have that leverage he felt he had in Washington over Shanahan. 

    We get a Hall of Fame caliber talent for a 5th round pick who can help out biggest weakness - pass rush.  This is a win win all around and hopefully it's the difference between going out in the first round and winning a championship.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatFanInBA2. Show PatFanInBA2's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Would we still get Ellis?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    I think you need to stay 34 and here's why.

    Wilfork will command a dbl team and so will Haynesworth as a DE (much like Seymour use to). Then you have Warren, which if he's health also demands a dbl team at times. That means even with a TE on the line or a RB in to block you have those 3 massive bodies taking up all the blockers. Now you have 4 players in Cunningham, Spikes, Mayo, Nin/or player X if they go FA to basically have a field day. The O will have no clue which one could be rushing since anyone could. Then you have 1 spy out of the LB core. That means you have 6 guys in a zone coverage and you would still be putting pressure on the QB. That's what causes turn overs and mistakes on the O's part. You move to a 43 and you are removing some of the flexibility for coverage and rushing.  The whole point to a 43 is if you don't have the bodies for the 34 it can be a better system by overloading the line with smaller quicker rushers. But, if you have the right bodies 34 is a more effective defensive system because you use less bodies to perform the same task allowing others to drop back into coverage or add additional rushers. The huge problem with the 34 is the personal. Without the right personal 34 will fail horrible due to lack of pressure. Well we have the right personal so time to go back into the 34
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Add in a Healthy TY Warren and the LBs are the Happiest players in the NFL right now. Haynesworth loves the Three Technique, which will be on the outside shoulder of the OG Wilfork 1 Technique over the center along with Warren Look out NFL. Now go get Roth and Ochocinco and we have to be odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    In Response to Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....:
    I think you need to stay 34 and here's why. Wilfork will command a dbl team and so will Haynesworth as a DE (much like Seymour use to). Then you have Warren, which if he's health also demands a dbl team at times. That means even with a TE on the line or a RB in to block you have those 3 massive bodies taking up all the blockers. Now you have 4 players in Cunningham, Spikes, Mayo, Nin/or player X if they go FA to basically have a field day. The O will have no clue which one could be rushing since anyone could. Then you have 1 spy out of the LB core. That means you have 6 guys in a zone coverage and you would still be putting pressure on the QB. That's what causes turn overs and mistakes on the O's part. You move to a 43 and you are removing some of the flexibility for coverage and rushing.  The whole point to a 43 is if you don't have the bodies for the 34 it can be a better system by overloading the line with smaller quicker rushers. But, if you have the right bodies 34 is a more effective defensive system because you use less bodies to perform the same task allowing others to drop back into coverage or add additional rushers. The huge problem with the 34 is the personal. Without the right personal 34 will fail horrible due to lack of pressure. Well we have the right personal so time to go back into the 34
    Posted by PatsEng
    I totally agree. Now O-Lines will have to change their protection schemes. which will free up players to get to the QB.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    We're staying 3-4, we don't have the personnel for a 4-3. Think of Haynesworth like Big Sey, Big Sey played 4-3 DT in college. He flourished in BB's 3-4 as a DE because the DE in a 3-4 is asked to do what the DT/DEs are asked to do in the 4-3. 


    All Haynesworth wanted was to be a pass-rusher, but the NT isn't a pass-rusher. A NT is supposed to represent the two DTs in 4-3 so he has to pick up two blockers. While, as a DE in a 3-4, Haynesworth will be asked to get after the passer and fcuk him up. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wildwillis. Show Wildwillis's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    I like the risk or lack there of for a 5th rder
    if the front 7 (hopefully 34) can get it done the way they used to with Seymour then Mccourty, Bodden/Arrington/Dowling will all look like probowlers and a pass defense that ranked in the bottom 3rd will quickly move up to the top 5-6 in the league.  Not to mention what BB will do with the safeties this year - free blitzing Chung is what I am guessing?
    Either way it is extremely exciting to see a player of Big Al's calibur (when properly motivated) sign w us and strike a bit of fear in opposing offenses.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    BB is flexible, though . . . and our defense does give a lot of hybrid looks.  On running downs, Haynesworth is going to be asked to occupy blockers, which is the typical responsibility of DLs in BB's two-gap 3-4.  But look for Haynesworth to get the opportunity to penetrate (and play more of a one-gap style) on likely passing downs. 

    As several have pointed out, we don't have the right personnel to go to a straight-up one-gap 4-3 as a base defense (and I doubt BB wants to change his base D), but that doesn't mean we won't use elements of that system at times. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    In Response to Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....:
    49Pat, He wants to be a pass rusher, and the 3-4 DE is NOT a pass rusher. Big Sey was never a pass rusher. He was a run stuffer who got some sacks sometimes. His most in a single season was 9. Do you think Haynsworth will be happy playing gap control and not going after the QB on every play? Cause I dont. This guy will be b*tching mid season about his lack of sacks cause he is all about his stats. I hope he proves me wrong.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life


    The facts don't backup that statement.

    Haynesworth -

    In his career playing in 43 defenses Haynesworth averaged a sack every 3.64 games getting 28 sacks over 102 games with only 2 season of 5+ sacks (8.5 and 6)

    Seymour -

    In his Patriots career averaged a sack every 2.84 games 39 sacks over 111 games with 4 seasons of 5+ sacks (8, 5, 8, 5.5)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Not sure Killa . . . but I have a feeling Haynesworth is either going to fit in or be cut fast.  I don't see too big a risk here. 

    I'm not sure BB will play him every down, either . . . BB may use him more situationally, and AH may even like that.  He may rotate in and out and be used mostly when the Pats want the DL to get upfield (or at least to threaten that). 

    If I'm not mistaken Haynesworth's cap hit is just a bit more than Banta-Cain's would have been. You can look at this as BB trading out TBC for Haynesworth. Can't be sure, but I'm going to guess we've got a much better chance of getting a more disruptive pass rush out of Haynesworth than we would have gotten out of TBC.  Granted, the rush is coming from a different position, but the end result--getting to the QB--is the key.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Haynesworth is perhaps our only 3 down lineman.  He will be on the field every down except when he needs rest.  This is what the D has been missing.  No more stopping the offense with one crew on 1st and 2nd down then having a different crew with no feel for the game blow it on 3rd down. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbungle. Show mrbungle's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    See how BB dealt with the pass rush issue?

    He got Haynesworth to free up the outside. Opposing teams felt no need to worry about NEs pass rush. Now? They have to focus on Big Albert which will free up the edge rush a bit and allow Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham and (hopefully) Roth to put pressure on the QB. 

    BB had this in mind all along I'm betting. Everyone else figures that we need a pass rush. "What will NE do about it's pass rush?" was all the buzz. BB thinks differently. He's pulled a bootleg by giving Mayo, Spikes, Cunningham and the others a better opportunity to blitz and give the opposing OL fits. 

    Sure, I have doubts about Haynesworth's attitude but, what if he comes into camp determined to get a fresh start and with a new nasty attitude that's directed at the opposing team? I love that. If we can get Roth, we have a D that's drool-worthy. Maybe we don't have an elite CB/S squad but, they are damn good. Again, putting pressure on the QB neutralizes any concerns about DB defiencies (although I think we are sitting pretty there). 

    Trust me, OL around the league are freaked about our DL now and I love it! Man, I can't wait. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....



    We know what the front 3 looked like when Sey left, and Warren played injured/was out. The key to the 3-4 is 3 dominating and opposing linemen, that require 2 OL occupation. We now have that missing piece we've been searching for since Sey was traded, plus Warren is healthy again...assuming Al shows up pissed and ready to go, and Warren is good to go of course.  

    1 missing piece left maybe and that is getting some OLB depth. If we land Roth, everything comes together very nicely for us. if we don't, I still feel better about Nink or Cunningham sitting behind Al, and getting some pressure for us when required, or sending someone else at the QB because Al demands doubles all day.

    This is one Pats fan that is excited about the possibiliities...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoahJustin. Show NoahJustin's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    In Response to Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....:
    It will be fun to watch him get back at all his doubters that is for sure. If he plays with a chip on his shoulder he will be a beast.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life
    I think your right, he's going to play with a chip on his shoulders. This will be his best chance for a superbowl ring.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    If he is motivated, we will have one of the best interior rush defenses in the NFL.

    Mayo and Spikes will have a field day when Big Vince and fat Albert are plugging up the blockers.

    Not to mention the affect this will have on our pass rush. Yes Albert isn't a beast when you look at his stats but he will be a force up the middle and will require extra blockers to stop allowing guys on the outside( Nink, Cunningham etc.) to have a field day.

    Like some of you have said, TBC gone, Haynesworth in. Only thing is that Haynesworth could potentially have a much larger affect in pass and run defense.

    Now Im praying that BB motivates Albert to a point where he agrees to do what is asked of him. I though Shanny in Washington approached the whole situation wrong from the start causing issues.

    IMO, if anyone can get Albert back into position to succeed, its BB.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    I posted often over the last year about a pass rush being generated from the inside and that we needed defensive line help, not another outside linebacker... this is what I'm talking about.

    You want sacks in a 3/4 defense you need three all pro caliber tackles, we've been running on two or less for years now.  Our defense may be historically good if this guy is motivated.  Now we'll see sacks and stops on 3rd down, Cunningham and Ninkovich are going to free up and explode on QB's.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    In Response to Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....:
    Thats right change your entire defensive philosophy because Haynsworth wants to play in a 4-3. That is such a great idea! Oh wait its one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said on this forum. Get a f*cking clue, players dont dictate sh*t on this team. Haynsworth will either fall in line and get on board with the way we play defense or he will hit the road. What kind of Pats fan says this kind of sh*t? I mean really have you ever even watched the way Belichick does his job?
    Posted by MVPkilla4life


    BB actually changes his schemes all the time based on the talent he has on the team. I could see them writing a bunch of plays where Haynesworth plays 3 tech just because he has been so dominant in that role.

    All they need to do is bring Cunningham into the dirt and shift the line over. Or just shift the line over and let Haynesworth eat a guard and a tackle right up.

    I'm sure he'll see lots of looks at 5 as well, which is him face to face.

    BB will do everything he can to max out what Albert Haynesworth can do.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEforever. Show NEforever's posts

    Re: Imagine Haynesworth and Wilfork in the middle of a 4-3....

    Fat Albert is much better than TBC. I think the change will make a difference,
    Plus the guy seems pissed from the past 2 years of getting ridiculed!
     
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