Impact of having a blue chip secondary

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    Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    WIth Revis, McCourty, Browner, Dennard, Logan, Harmon, Arrington (in suitable roles) the secondary should be especially good. This will of course help the pass rush. But another effect might be that teams more often try to throw underneath. This will result in (1) shorter yards per pass and per completion (2) more third downs the opponents will have to convert and so to score opponents will have to be especially efficient (3) it will require LBs to cover and the back 7 or 8 in total to converge and tackle to smother plays. Having to throw underneath will also tend to keep our LBs closer to the line of scrimmage which will help in the run D.


    This D still has some potential Achilles heals:


    1. DT depth is still questionable especially as the best talent is old and coming off injuries.


    2. Upgrading a pass rush is still a critical element to turning what will be either incompletions or short gains into interceptions and so game changing plays.


    3. And this is really one of the most important considerations going into the draft - that in a 4-3 D we have desperately little depth at LB and thin at DE while in a 3-4 D we have desperately little depth at NT


    SO AN IMMEDIATE questions becomes: do we look for another quality DL who can play NT in our 3-4 which will turn Chandler Jones and Nink into OLB in a 3-4 when we play a 3-4 (and so improve depth at DE and LB) or will we look for more depth at LB and DE for our 4-3 sets?


    This does not have to be a mutually exclusive thing. If we can add a good 3-4 NT we will likely be adding a player who can play DT in a 4-3. We can also look to add a LB and perhaps 4-3 DE. That could mean 3 defensive players in the first 4 rounds. It does not leave much room for TE and WR (I am not sure we need one) and C or RG and RB (as preparation for contract talks with Vereen and Ridley).


    In any case the secondary, being as good on paper as it is, allows BB do start to design dominating packages. In doing so he could lean back more towards the old 3-4, lean further towards the 4-3, develop a hybrid with the likes of guys like Hightower and Jones and Nink, or try to pack more talent that will allow him the flexibility to truly play 4-3 and 3-4 depending on opponent, situation and conditions....


    Do you think the quality of the secondary means BB focuses on any of the above or does he turn back toward the offense first (TE, C, RG, RB, WR, QB) ---- though he never seems to totally neglect any part of the team.. so it is a question of focus...


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    When you work hard off-season on putting together a good Secondary, you have to focus on putting together a Pass Rush,(pressure) otherwise it is all wasted. We need more speed at LB's in crucial 3rd down situations. Need coverage there too. I know we have Collins, would like another speed LB there also.
    Offense has the weapons, the line is where I would look at improving.


     


     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    I am comfortable with this defense based on the following assumptions;


    -Vince, Kelly and Armstead are healthy


    -WSmith is signed but not yet announced as vet rotational help at DE


    -Gregory is brought back in at a vet min deal and he has to beat out Chung/Harmon for a roster spot


    IMO if all are checked off, the draft on the defensive side can be about 2015 and later, and depth for 2014

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    It's all going to come down to what's left on the board when the Pats are up.  For instance, if Nix is still there when we pick in the 1st, I think BB will probably pounce because a athletic 350lb nose isn't something that comes along often.  That means we would be looking to add to DE and LB later in the draft.  However, if Nix is gone but someone like Ford or Ealy are available, you grab that DE rusher and then think about DT later when you might be able to get a Jones or a McCullers a little later. 


     


    The front seven on D is in the most need of help this year (with TE being the lone exception), because of age, injury, and loss of depth in FA.  What order you stock it is completely reliant on how BB has his big board laid out. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    If they don't fix the D line and the pass rush then the dolled up secondary is tats on a bull.


    Vince looked old and fat prior to his injury, sorry Vince but it is what it is.


    Armstead....he has yet to suit up, what are the odds he pans out.


    Kelly is past his prime.


    They need a nose tackle as well as an interior D linemen.


    They still have the draft and cut down pick ups but the Pats need to finish what has been a good start but is very much incomplete at this point.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    I like the Pats chances with Nink, Jones and WSmith and maybe Buchanon on the outside. Vince, Kelly, Armstead and Siliga in the middle. Yes, I would like to see a rd1 DT chosen for 2015 and beyond, and for 2014 rotational depth.


    Last year Kelly was playing at a pro bowl level prior to injury.


    This group of DB's on the flip side of the coin will give the DL another 2 seconds time to get to the QB 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:


    If they don't fix the D line and the pass rush then the dolled up secondary is tats on a bull.


    Agree


    Vince looked old and fat prior to his injury, sorry Vince but it is what it is.


    Turns out Vince was injured going into the season so that old and fat comment might be more about playing through the injury than that he was actually old and fat.


    Armstead....he has yet to suit up, what are the odds he pans out.


    I agree, last year I thought anything he'd give would be gravy and I still think that. There is a reason the Pats and 31 other teams passed on him as a UDFA and there is a reason 31 other teams didn't manage to beat a very low cost contract the Pats gave him. If he was really an extra 2nd round pick as some thought don;t you think at least 1 team out there would have given him a day 2 type of contract after his CFL year?


    Kelly is past his prime.


    He is but before injury he looked pretty good. Now no clue if that would have lasted throughout the season nor a clue if he could come back to that form but he's still the 2nd best DT we currently have (kind of scary huh)


    They need a nose tackle as well as an interior D linemen.


    Agreed, and they need the talent not the value there


    They still have the draft and cut down pick ups but the Pats need to finish what has been a good start but is very much incomplete at this point.


    That front 7 does look incomplete but I see it as needing 3 players on D. 1 interior DL who can give starts his rook year, a rotational DE pass rusher (Smith might be that guy but would still want one more), and a 4th LB. All of which they can find via the draft so not overly concerned provided they spend 3 of their first 5 picks on those positions





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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    I think a good example of what can happen if you have a loaded secondary is the jets of four years ago. That defense at the time didn't have a pass rush and they weren't great against the run, but their secondary allowed them to do so many different things. That defense was able to blitz because Revis could allow them to do it, I remember thinking...why can't we do that? And it was because our corners couldn't cover like them. Ryan got a reputation of being this up and coming defensive mind - at one point people were calling him a defensive genius - truth is he had a secondary that made his job easy. I hope our new secondary will give us that same advantage.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:


     


    If they don't fix the D line and the pass rush then the dolled up secondary is tats on a bull.


     


    Agree


     


    Vince looked old and fat prior to his injury, sorry Vince but it is what it is.


     


    Turns out Vince was injured going into the season so that old and fat comment might be more about playing through the injury than that he was actually old and fat.


     


    Armstead....he has yet to suit up, what are the odds he pans out.


     


    I agree, last year I thought anything he'd give would be gravy and I still think that. There is a reason the Pats and 31 other teams passed on him as a UDFA and there is a reason 31 other teams didn't manage to beat a very low cost contract the Pats gave him. If he was really an extra 2nd round pick as some thought don;t you think at least 1 team out there would have given him a day 2 type of contract after his CFL year?


     


    Kelly is past his prime.


     


    He is but before injury he looked pretty good. Now no clue if that would have lasted throughout the season nor a clue if he could come back to that form but he's still the 2nd best DT we currently have (kind of scary huh)


     


    They need a nose tackle as well as an interior D linemen.


     


    Agreed, and they need the talent not the value there


     


    They still have the draft and cut down pick ups but the Pats need to finish what has been a good start but is very much incomplete at this point.


     


    That front 7 does look incomplete but I see it as needing 3 players on D. 1 interior DL who can give starts his rook year, a rotational DE pass rusher (Smith might be that guy but would still want one more), and a 4th LB. All of which they can find via the draft so not overly concerned provided they spend 3 of their first 5 picks on those positions


     





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    everyone is entitled to opinion here, and you may be 100% correct.


    where I disagree is the Armstead contract. The Pats gave him $1.5M with $655K guaranteed. That is not UDFA money he got. (Siliga had $0 guarantee in his contract)


    Armstead was an UDFA but received 2nd round $$$

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Impact of having a blue chip secondary

    In response to rkarp's comment:


     



    everyone is entitled to opinion here, and you may be 100% correct.


     


    where I disagree is the Armstead contract. The Pats gave him $1.5M with $655K guaranteed. That is not UDFA money he got. (Siliga had $0 guarantee in his contract)


     


    Armstead was an UDFA but received 2nd round $$$





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    According to the 2013 draft figures what Armstead got was essentially a mid 3rd contract. Never said anything about UDFA money but another team wouldn't give him better? Essentially we are talking $200k more guaranteed and double yearly amount to get the same as the 64th pick (per yrly average). If he was really a 2nd round talent and proved it in the CFL it surprises me another team wouldn't give him 64th pick money to get him away from the Pats. It's almost doubling the annual amount and giving 33% more guaranteed but it would seem worth it if other teams viewed him as having 2nd round talent. The other thing to note about his contract is that there is no signing bonus just a % guaranteed in his first and 2nd year. This was built in so the Pats can dump him after a year and not have to worry about money moving forward, so that's another thing that other teams could have included to bring him away from the Pats. So, all in all I see the potential there it doesn't change the fact that 32 teams passed on him the first time and the second time the Pats got him for cheap in comparison to what some value him on this board. If the rest of the league saw the same value he wouldn't be a Pat right now.

     
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