Implications of Gronk not being ready

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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Deep threat is key to the run game.  Spread that defense with a deep threat. 

     




    Still in tears!  Tears I tells ya!

     




    Thank you Sir!  You are now displaying the sure sign of defeat!!  That is the tactic kids use when they have no legit comeback! 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Here's some info to expose the bejesus out of RKrap who claims only Gronk is a good blocking TE:

    "One of the most versatile athletes in the Midwest. Many recruiters feel Ballard could be a great offensive lineman but he could get some looks at tight end or along the defensive line. Performed extremely well at the Scout.com All-America Combine in Akron this past May."

    Why would he be considered a great O Line prospect as well as a TE, if he couldn't even block well.

    Care to answer that one, Rkrap? Hmm?

    And some info in this piece via your buddy, Greg Bedard:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1224279-projecting-jake-ballards-role-and-fit-with-new-england-patriots




    I see Bedard labels Ballard "capable". I still have him ranked behind Gronk and Fells as a blocker. If he kept his limited speed after his surgery, I would put Ballard ahead of Fells as a receiver, but behind Gronk.

    Again, I am anxious to see him in pads this summer, and will post on what I see.

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Deep threat is key to the run game.  Spread that defense with a deep threat. 

     




    Still in tears!  Tears I tells ya!

     

     




    Thank you Sir!  You are now displaying the sure sign of defeat!!  That is the tactic kids use when they have no legit comeback! 

     

     

     


    I don't need any kind of a comeback. I just wanted your original line quoted for the record and I started laughing my eyes started to water a bit.

    No need for a comeback whatsoever. Your own words sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.

     




    No my frien, all your posts sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.  You never even played the game, Bwahahahahahahaha!!! 

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Deep threat is key to the run game.  Spread that defense with a deep threat. 

     




    Still in tears!  Tears I tells ya!

     

     




    Thank you Sir!  You are now displaying the sure sign of defeat!!  That is the tactic kids use when they have no legit comeback! 

     

     

     


    I don't need any kind of a comeback. I just wanted your original line quoted for the record and I started laughing my eyes started to water a bit.

    No need for a comeback whatsoever. Your own words sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.

     

     




    No my frien, all your posts sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.  You never even played the game, Bwahahahahahahaha!!! 

     

     



    Sure I did.  I played tons of sports, Gramps.

     

    "deep threat is the key to a good run game"

    I wish we could add sigs to our accounts, because that would be mine.  Hilarious.

    I'll let you off the hook, however: What you mean is that an effective deep threat and draw defenders away from the line of scrimmage which can assist in taking away run support from some of the defenders. It can also open up the middle of the field if the Safety shadows the deep threat, to help out those 5-15 yard kind of routes we like to run.

    But, that doesn't mean it's the key to having a good run game.

    Also, the team would need to be in man coverage for that even be true, which is not always the case.

    We didn't have a good run game here, ever, whether it be Ridley last year, BJGE in 2010 or Dillon in 2004, because we had some scary deep threat.

    You're telling me I don't know about the game and I just ran circles around you teaching you something.

    lmao

    [QUOTE]


    But football wasn't one of them, hahahahahaha!

    Pat's didn't make it to the SB last year or in 2010, now did they?

    Um, please tell me what you taught me?

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    The implication of Gronk not being ready means Fells will stick on the roster to start the season (assuming Gronk isn't ready).

    Ballard will start, he is the best tight end on our roster after Gronk.  Ballard may not be the athlete Gronk is but his hands are equally as soft and he may be a better blocker, it's what he does best and he will fill that Kyle Brady/extra offensive lineman role on the field.  

    I can't wait until both Gronk and Ballard are healthy, hopefully Dobson and Boyce can become the vertical threats we're hoping for, if so we'll be able to hammer teams in both the run game, intermediate passing game and deep game with a single formation?!

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Deep threat is key to the run game.  Spread that defense with a deep threat. 

     




    Still in tears!  Tears I tells ya!

     

     




    Thank you Sir!  You are now displaying the sure sign of defeat!!  That is the tactic kids use when they have no legit comeback! 

     

     

     


    I don't need any kind of a comeback. I just wanted your original line quoted for the record and I started laughing my eyes started to water a bit.

    No need for a comeback whatsoever. Your own words sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.

     

     




    No my frien, all your posts sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.  You never even played the game, Bwahahahahahahaha!!! 

     

     



    Sure I did.  I played tons of sports, Gramps.

     

    "deep threat is the key to a good run game"

    I wish we could add sigs to our accounts, because that would be mine.  Hilarious.

    I'll let you off the hook, however: What you mean is that an effective deep threat and draw defenders away from the line of scrimmage which can assist in taking away run support from some of the defenders. It can also open up the middle of the field if the Safety shadows the deep threat, to help out those 5-15 yard kind of routes we like to run.

    But, that doesn't mean it's the key to having a good run game.

    Also, the team would need to be in man coverage for that even be true, which is not always the case.

    We didn't have a good run game here, ever, whether it be Ridley last year, BJGE in 2010 or Dillon in 2004, because we had some scary deep threat.

    You're telling me I don't know about the game and I just ran circles around you teaching you something.

    lmao

    [QUOTE]


    But football wasn't one of them, hahahahahaha!

    Pat's didn't make it to the SB last year or in 2010, now did they?

    Um, please tell me what you taught me?

     

     




    Brady saw to it we didn't in 2010 with a poor performance yet again in the postseason, didn't he? Steamrolling down the field and then throwing an INT on 1st down would somehow be different if Randy Moss was still here, after we pasted NY 45-3 a month earlier with him not in the shotgun as much?

     

    Hmm. Funny, I don't see how that decision is based on us not having a deep threat.

    BJGE 8 carries, 50 yards in the AFC title game in the first half, then benched for shotgun spreads and Woodhead with a god awful INT from Brady on 1st down into triple coverage with a "deep threat" Matt Slater.  Gee, what a great idea!  Matt Slater was subbed in with speed to be  deep threat and BJGE is riding the bench after a superb first half, just so Brady could run more shotguns.

    FAIL and FAIL

     



    Ok, let me follow this train wreck....bjge was subbed because brady wanted to run more shotgun spreads? So HC and OC Brady determined at halftime our 2nd half strategy, and, he dictated which players would be on the field as well To execute that strategy? 

    Do you realize at all how absurd this sounds? In 2 sentences you promoted Brady to HC and OC and demoted bb and oB at the same time...interesting

     
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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Deep threat is key to the run game.  Spread that defense with a deep threat. 

     




    Still in tears!  Tears I tells ya!

     

     




    Thank you Sir!  You are now displaying the sure sign of defeat!!  That is the tactic kids use when they have no legit comeback! 

     

     

     


    I don't need any kind of a comeback. I just wanted your original line quoted for the record and I started laughing my eyes started to water a bit.

    No need for a comeback whatsoever. Your own words sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.

     

     




    No my frien, all your posts sit out there like a pile of dog dung on poolside cement.  You never even played the game, Bwahahahahahahaha!!! 

     

     



    Sure I did.  I played tons of sports, Gramps.

     

    "deep threat is the key to a good run game"

    I wish we could add sigs to our accounts, because that would be mine.  Hilarious.

    I'll let you off the hook, however: What you mean is that an effective deep threat and draw defenders away from the line of scrimmage which can assist in taking away run support from some of the defenders. It can also open up the middle of the field if the Safety shadows the deep threat, to help out those 5-15 yard kind of routes we like to run.

    But, that doesn't mean it's the key to having a good run game.

    Also, the team would need to be in man coverage for that even be true, which is not always the case.

    We didn't have a good run game here, ever, whether it be Ridley last year, BJGE in 2010 or Dillon in 2004, because we had some scary deep threat.

    You're telling me I don't know about the game and I just ran circles around you teaching you something.

    lmao

    [QUOTE]


    But football wasn't one of them, hahahahahaha!

    Pat's didn't make it to the SB last year or in 2010, now did they?

    Um, please tell me what you taught me?

     

     




    Brady saw to it we didn't in 2010 with a poor performance yet again in the postseason, didn't he? Steamrolling down the field and then throwing an INT on 1st down would somehow be different if Randy Moss was still here, after we pasted NY 45-3 a month earlier with him not in the shotgun as much?

     

    Hmm. Funny, I don't see how that decision is based on us not having a deep threat.

    BJGE 8 carries, 50 yards in the AFC title game in the first half, then benched for shotgun spreads and Woodhead with a god awful INT from Brady on 1st down into triple coverage with a "deep threat" Matt Slater.  Gee, what a great idea!  Matt Slater was subbed in with speed to be  deep threat and BJGE is riding the bench after a superb first half, just so Brady could run more shotguns.

    FAIL and FAIL

     

     



    Ok, let me follow this train wreck....bjge was subbed because brady wanted to run more shotgun spreads? So HC and OC Brady determined at halftime our 2nd half strategy, and, he dictated which players would be on the field as well To execute that strategy? 

     

    Do you realize at all how absurd this sounds? In 2 sentences you promoted Brady to HC and OC and demoted bb and oB at the same time...interesting

     



    No, the logic is, that they didn't score enough in the first half, so Brady thinks they can put more points with Woodhead and shotgun spreads. It works great against bad or mediocre Ds, but it doesn't against good or great Ds.

     

    They key is not to panic with the offensive strategy which was fine, giving you a lead and with some of your own flaws with execution with players dropping balls or throwing INTs, not needing to be a reason to change.

    VERY SIMPLE.

    If it ain't broke don't fix it.

    This organization has GOT to get 2007 and its records out of its head. And yes, Brady runs shotguns because he prefers it. If you don't think BB and McDaniels don't convene with Brady at halftimes, you're a moron.

     



    I am sure bb, the OC and Brady converse at halftime to make adjustments...but to say that bb and the OC defer to Brady, means that brady runs the team. Which means Brady gets all the accolades of the past 13 years and not bb the HC. Which is insane. 

    whatever personnel and strategy the pats employ is the product of bb and his coaching staff. I will agree that it is up to Brady and the offense to execute, but bb runs the show and has full accountability. Maybe you don't understand command and control or accountability because you yourself are the very millennial that you so despise.

     
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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    Sorry Russ, but the notion that Brady dictates which personnel is out on the field or has a say in halftime adjustments beyond telling the O coordinator about some tendencies he observed by the defense is complete horssht.

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    I agree with some of what you say Russ...however, maybe you are looking too deep into this?

    if bb and his coaches devise a game plan, and that game plan requires more brady than bjge, how is that gameplan Brady's fault? 

    Bb does a masterful job putting the pieces in the right places to succeed based on his gameplan...do we think bb trashes this gameplan because brady wants to throw more than run? 

    If this was the case, then bb is not as good a HC as I thought. no one players needs are greater than the team, and I have a hard time believing bb puts this aside to make Brady happy.

    bottomline...Brady, his arm and our receivers are our best chance to win and put points up. If they execute to their potential, we are probably have one or more sb's to our credit. Meaning, for the most part the gameplans are solid..yes, bb has had a brain faart from time to time, but this is more about execution than strategy I believe.

     
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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    Belichick game plans for the team he is playing, he doesn't take into account what his QB wants at all, this is a complete figment of Russ's imagination.  Just like his "inside" (knowledge?) opinion that Brady is no longer going to get what he wants.  It's silly, moronic, self indulgent... the Patriots offense hasn't been good in the post season, if I had to blame a single person it would be the offensive coordinator but even that wouldn't tell the whole story, but at the end of the day he chooses the plays and is most responsible for the gameplan.

     
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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    There are many reasons why the Pats' offense has sputtered in the postseason. Injury is a big part of it . . . to linemen, to Gronk, to key receivers (i.e., Welker in 2009).  Lack of diversity and inconsistent quality at some positions has also been an issue, in particular having only average running backs prior to Ridley and weak outside receivers ever since Moss began to decline in 2009.  Brady has, of course, made mistakes too, but to blame everything on him is silly.  For the most part, he's been a strength of the team and--even in the postseason--not a weakness.

    The postseason losses also have something to do with a defense that is prone to giving up big plays at inopportune times. It's not all on the offense. 

    As far as game planning and play calling, the use of the shotgun is the result of the type of players we've had more than Brady's preferences.  Sure, most QBs like the shotgun.  It makes it easier for them to survey the field and get the ball off fast.  Although it may "tip off" a pass play, it  can make the opponent's pass rush less effective, since the QB starts further back and doesn't have to monitor the rush while dropping back.  Overall, it's a better passing formation than a drop back, and if a team can also run at least reasonably well from it, it's not quite as one-dimensional as some think. So, yeah, Brady like any good passing QB tends to like the shotgun.

    But the reason the coaches (and it's the coaches, not Brady) choose to run the shotgun a lot (though on less than half the plays, still) is because it works with the short, quick passing game that, for better or worse, has been the Patriots' offense's primary strength the past few years.  Welker is effective primarily if he gets open fast and gets the ball in 2 or 2.5 seconds. That type of speedy release is almost impossible without the shotgun.  Since short, fast passes to Welker (or to the TEs) have been the mainstay of the Pats' offense, the shotgun has been utilized heavily.

    Would the Pats' offense be better if it were more diverse?  I think so--but given the players the Pats have had on offense, I don't think it would be better if they tried to run a different kind of offense.  Running a lot requires great run blocking and good backs.  Passing from under center requires a receivers who can get separation further downfield as well as strong pass blocking.  The Pats just haven't had these players.

    Rather than criticize our coaching staff for calling the wrong plays, I'm more prone to praise them for figuing out a way to turn such an oddly limited set of offensive players into a league leading offense.  And rather than criticizing Brady, I can only admire his ability to make the offense work thanks to his super-quick and reliable decision-making on almost every play.  With most coaches and QBs, an offense that relies so heavily on players like Danny Woodhead and Wes Welker would be at best an average one.  With Belichick, his coaching staff, and Brady, it's been one of the best offenses in the league.

    To get back to the main theme of this thread--Gronk--it is worth pointing out than in the past two postseasons the absence of Gronk has had a huge impact on the offense's success.  Gronk when healthly is a true impact player, a guy who single-handly transforms the Pats' offense from average to exceptional.  He's a great blocker in the running game and a great receiver, almost impossible to cover, particularly in the red zone.  With his size and athleticism, he adds a very different dimension to our passing offense than we have without him.  Take him out, and we fall back on quick passes to Welker, Hernandez, and occasionally someone else. Blame Brady, blame the shotgun, blame Welker--whatever you want.  But not having a healthy Gronk was probably the most significant problem for the offense in the past two postseason defeats.  

     
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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    We have until week 10 to bring Gronk back.  He would be inactive for 9 games plus preseason. I'd rather have him for the last 7 ( which the last 2 or 3 you could rest him again ) and the playoffs then for the first 6 and risk injury. 

     
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    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Here's some info to expose the bejesus out of RKrap who claims only Gronk is a good blocking TE:

    "One of the most versatile athletes in the Midwest. Many recruiters feel Ballard could be a great offensive lineman but he could get some looks at tight end or along the defensive line. Performed extremely well at the Scout.com All-America Combine in Akron this past May."

    Why would he be considered a great O Line prospect as well as a TE, if he couldn't even block well.

    Care to answer that one, Rkrap? Hmm?

    And some info in this piece via your buddy, Greg Bedard:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1224279-projecting-jake-ballards-role-and-fit-with-new-england-patriots

     




    I see Bedard labels Ballard "capable". I still have him ranked behind Gronk and Fells as a blocker. If he kept his limited speed after his surgery, I would put Ballard ahead of Fells as a receiver, but behind Gronk.

     

    Again, I am anxious to see him in pads this summer, and will post on what I see.

     

     




     

    I don't believe that is Bedard's word choice. You also left out the part where it says he's proficient as a receiver.

    Here's is another quote:

    "Make no mistake, Ballard is not Rob Gronkowski—no one is. He will be limited at best in 2012 and hasn't been a great red-zone target like Gronkowski has. But he's still a quality player."

    I see the word "quality" in there.  He isn't some JAG off the street, RKrap, which is what you were implying above.

    I think we can agree Brady>Eli so 600 yards and 4 TDs in 2011, a good blocker with Eli Manning has the chance to be better here.

     




    straight from the article you posted

    Ballard provides the Patriots with another capable blocker, who's also a proficient receiver. According to Pro Football Focus, Ballard was on the field for more blocking plays than pass plays last season. However, the undrafted Ohio State product still caught 38 passes for 604 yards and four touchdowns in 2011.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    Gronk will be ready, too many folks are drinking the sensationalist media coolaide.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Implications of Gronk not being ready

    Gronk may be ready by season's start, but until he's fully recovered from his multiple surgeries no one knows for sure.  I'm sure BB has done thorough contingency planning though.

    Belichick is always ready for the season and that's what matters most.

     
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