Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

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    Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    How important is the running game in winning regular season and/or playoff games? Is it better to have one Lead RB who can "do it all" or use a RBBC and use the strengths of each back depending on the specific play needed?

     

    Year

    2000 #26 1390

    2001 #13 1793  Smith

    2002 #28 1508

    2003 #27 1607  Smith

    2004 #7   2134  Dillon

    2005 #24 1512

    2006 #12 1969  RBBC, Maroney and Dillon

    2007 #13 1849

    2008 #6   2278

    2009 #12 1921

    2010 #9   1973

    2011 #20  1764  Ridley

    2012 #7    2184  Ridley and Vereen

    2000-2004 Average = 1686/season or 105.4/game

    2005-2012 Average = 1931.25/season or 120.7/game

    I think it's clear that the Patriots are gaining more yards with RBBC vs. one lead back.

    So the question is - are they running the ball more effectively? And, I'm not talking about "balance" (which, to me, means running 50% passing plays vs. 50% running plays).

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    I think overall yards isnt the best measure. Between, Ridley, Vereen and Woody last year our running game was more tab predictable last year. so yeah, RBBC is great for gaining lots of yards, but a true lead RB will give you much more effective yards and someone who can carry the loads and pick up the offense when the passing game is struggling. 

    Stats I would like to see for a better comparison are; TDs per game, TDs inside the 20, same stats but in the playoffs, fumbles and finally passing yards with a lead RB in versus RBBC.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to freediro's comment:

    I think overall yards isnt the best measure. Between, Ridley, Vereen and Woody last year our running game was more tab predictable last year. so yeah, RBBC is great for gaining lots of yards, but a true lead RB will give you much more effective yards and someone who can carry the loads and pick up the offense when the passing game is struggling. 

    Stats I would like to see for a better comparison are; TDs per game, TDs inside the 20, same stats but in the playoffs, fumbles and finally passing yards with a lead RB in versus RBBC.



    I agree.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In today's NFL even if you have a "lead back" you are going to need to give him enough rest to make him effective in 4th quarters and over the long haul of a 16 game season.  Also, on a 10-15 play drive he's going to come out for at least a play or two.

    What my eyes tell me, more than stats, is that the running game has been erratic over the last 5 years.  For example, in 2012 the Pats had their highest pct. of first downs gained per rushing attempt in the BB Era (28.87%).  In no way do I think last year's running game was as good as 2004, for example.  Too often Ridley or Bolden will bust good runs on a drive and then we'll see 2 carries for no gain, facing 3rd and long.

    I think the biggest obstacle the Pats face right now is their own ability to develop deception in the play calling.  For all the lofty stats they've amassed under JM they need to work more on avoiding tendencies that can be spotted on film.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to freediro's comment:

    I think overall yards isnt the best measure. Between, Ridley, Vereen and Woody last year our running game was more tab predictable last year. so yeah, RBBC is great for gaining lots of yards, but a true lead RB will give you much more effective yards and someone who can carry the loads and pick up the offense when the passing game is struggling. 

    Stats I would like to see for a better comparison are; TDs per game, TDs inside the 20, same stats but in the playoffs, fumbles and finally passing yards with a lead RB in versus RBBC.



    Agreed about tipping defenses of when changing backs. It can be predictible.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    I miss him.... hopefully Ridley gained muscle to be like him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puPKyEtv1wE

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    In today's NFL even if you have a "lead back" you are going to need to give him enough rest to make him effective in 4th quarters and over the long haul of a 16 game season.  Also, on a 10-15 play drive he's going to come out for at least a play or two.

    What my eyes tell me, more than stats, is that the running game has been erratic over the last 5 years.  For example, in 2012 the Pats had their highest pct. of first downs gained per rushing attempt in the BB Era (28.87%).  In no way do I think last year's running game was as good as 2004, for example.  Too often Ridley or Bolden will bust good runs on a drive and then we'll see 2 carries for no gain, facing 3rd and long.

    I think the biggest obstacle the Pats face right now is their own ability to develop deception in the play calling.  For all the lofty stats they've amassed under JM they need to work more on avoiding tendencies that can be spotted on film.



    all good points. I agree. I think the last season that it looked like the Patriots could gain running yards "easily" was when they had Crumpler blocking (and Gronk).

    Wouldn't it be easier to disquise plays when the RB is able to be an all around back - and provide a change of pace runner - who can also be an all around back?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    I miss him.... hopefully Ridley gained muscle to be like him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puPKyEtv1wE

     

     



    Neither Smith or Dillon could break a run for longer than 10 yards as consistently as Ridley.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    In today's NFL even if you have a "lead back" you are going to need to give him enough rest to make him effective in 4th quarters and over the long haul of a 16 game season.  Also, on a 10-15 play drive he's going to come out for at least a play or two.

    What my eyes tell me, more than stats, is that the running game has been erratic over the last 5 years.  For example, in 2012 the Pats had their highest pct. of first downs gained per rushing attempt in the BB Era (28.87%).  In no way do I think last year's running game was as good as 2004, for example.  Too often Ridley or Bolden will bust good runs on a drive and then we'll see 2 carries for no gain, facing 3rd and long.

    I think the biggest obstacle the Pats face right now is their own ability to develop deception in the play calling.  For all the lofty stats they've amassed under JM they need to work more on avoiding tendencies that can be spotted on film.



    I don't completely agree. I think we need to be good enough on the ground - both in short yardage and in making big plays - so that we can be successful regardless. You don't want to base your success simply on whether the other team guesses right or night. That leaves success totally up to chance or to whether the other team is smarter.

    However, I agree in as much as if we are good enough both passing and running than the D cannot just stop one of the two. It means that a D playing honest will be more vulnerable to TB and to a good runnning game.

    So I do not completely disagree.... But the approach should be based on fielding a good enough team not in being "cute" in your play calling. Also, being "cute" in this case will mean taking the ball out of TBs hands on plays you do not want to and if you just changed your play calling but not the quality of your running game then you are intentionally going with a weakness and going away from your strength.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    I miss him.... hopefully Ridley gained muscle to be like him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puPKyEtv1wE

     

     

     



    Neither Smith or Dillon could break a run for longer than 10 yards as consistently as Ridley.

     



    Love your confidence.... hopefully he can gain 1600 yards and get a clock killing ability.  Needs to work on holdiong onto the ball.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to CliffordWasHere's comment:

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

     

    In today's NFL even if you have a "lead back" you are going to need to give him enough rest to make him effective in 4th quarters and over the long haul of a 16 game season.  Also, on a 10-15 play drive he's going to come out for at least a play or two.

    What my eyes tell me, more than stats, is that the running game has been erratic over the last 5 years.  For example, in 2012 the Pats had their highest pct. of first downs gained per rushing attempt in the BB Era (28.87%).  In no way do I think last year's running game was as good as 2004, for example.  Too often Ridley or Bolden will bust good runs on a drive and then we'll see 2 carries for no gain, facing 3rd and long.

    I think the biggest obstacle the Pats face right now is their own ability to develop deception in the play calling.  For all the lofty stats they've amassed under JM they need to work more on avoiding tendencies that can be spotted on film.

     



    You don't need any film to know Brady prefers the shotgun and we only run a change of pace draw with Woodhead or Vereen without ever getting a run game established in the first place.

     

    Every team's gameplan vs our offense, the ones that succeed, is the 2007 Jim Johnson blueprint he used on us.  In that game, our offense eventually held on, but that was the start of it all. Spagnuolo used it in the SB with great execution, the Jets have used variations of it, so has Baltimore. Christ, we almost lost the 2007 AFC title game with SD executing it.

    Yet, we continue to play into it with a finesse shotgun base. You can't be halfway in with a run game.  You have to fit fire with fire and we've seen simply chosen not to, with every possible excuse in the book as to why.

     




    For the umteenth millionth time, TB does not send out the formations, nor does he call the plays from the sidelines.  If you have a problem with that than talk to your daddy.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

     

    Love your confidence.... hopefully he can gain 1600 yards and get a clock killing ability.  Needs to work on holdiong onto the ball.

     

     



    Well, his fumbling isn't as bad as people make it out to be - and the last time he fumbled - he had is bell rung pretty good.

     

     
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    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    For the umteenth millionth time, TB does not send out the formations, nor does he call the plays from the sidelines.  If you have a problem with that than talk to your daddy.

     



    maybe not, but I do believe they give him a little leeway to change the play at the line of scrimmage depending upon what he reads.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Importance of Running Game Re: Winning Games and/or Superbowl, Lead RB vs. RBBC

    I am fairly positive that Brady is competent and confident to call a audible at the line of scrimmage whenever he doesn't see a read he doesn't like. Sure, he doesn't have complete control of the play calls but his input is highly highly taken into consideration during game planning.

    What ever formation he prefers I hope he does it based on the best interest of the team and personnel on the field over anything else.

     
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