Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

    I would say a coordinators job entails a lot more than play calling, they have a huge say in personnel matters on their side of the ball as well, if the offense became a lopsided imbalanced unit (which it did 2009-1011) it probably had a lot to do with Bill O'Brien not being able to express what he thought he needed on his side of the ball and/or not knowing what was missing.  

    I was also pretty explicit when I mentioned that 2009 Super Bowl was an anomaly in comparison to the overall history of the big game and only made possible by Goodell's new mandate that the zebras control the outcomes of the games with penalty flags.

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

    [/QUOTE]

    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

     

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

     

      



    This

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

    I would say a coordinators job entails a lot more than play calling, they have a huge say in personnel matters on their side of the ball as well, if the offense became a lopsided imbalanced unit (which it did 2009-1011) it probably had a lot to do with Bill O'Brien not being able to express what he thought he needed on his side of the ball and/or not knowing what was missing.  

    I was also pretty explicit when I mentioned that 2009 Super Bowl was an anomaly in comparison to the overall history of the big game and only made possible by Goodell's new mandate that the zebras control the outcomes of the games with penalty flags.

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."



    So even if its not productive, just run just to do it? If you arent averaging a high ypc, then it IS detrimental. You are just gonna go out 3 and out all day. They finally did what Rusty wanted last year and they didnt score enough points with that approach considering what the defense gave up. Why do you keep arguing a point thats been proven already? You cant run the ball all day with a bad defense. its like oil and water. Running teams have always been complimented by good defenses or they go nowhere. Also, having a GREAT run Game, but no QB wont get you anywhere either.See last years Vikings team. We have had everything the past 5 years EXCEPT a Great Run game and Defense and thats why we have no lombardi. and please dont show my reg. season stats vs scrubs. We need to be able to run when the defense expects it and we havent to this point.

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

    Really?

    I guess it's just coincidence that the "smash mouth" teams of the 70's featured some of the stingiest defenses in NFL history.


    "The worse New England has gotten on defense, the better Brady has been forced to become -- with 109 touchdowns, 20 interceptions and a 39-9 record the past three seasons. "

    CLARK JUDGE______7/13/13_____________________________________
                                  
                             

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

     

     

    I would say a coordinators job entails a lot more than play calling, they have a huge say in personnel matters on their side of the ball as well, if the offense became a lopsided imbalanced unit (which it did 2009-1011) it probably had a lot to do with Bill O'Brien not being able to express what he thought he needed on his side of the ball and/or not knowing what was missing.  

    I was also pretty explicit when I mentioned that 2009 Super Bowl was an anomaly in comparison to the overall history of the big game and only made possible by Goodell's new mandate that the zebras control the outcomes of the games with penalty flags.

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Well if Donald Rumsfield said it...

    Here is a look at what a healthy run attack can do for a team that is middle of the pack offense and middle of the pack defense. 16th and 17th for the 2012 season.

    In the playoffs this teams pass to rush numbers were as follows

    Game 1 they had 32 rush att's to 23 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    Game 2 they had 39 rush att's to 34 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 3 they had 33 rush att's to 36 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 4 they had 35 rush att's to 33 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    In that last game this middle of the pack Ravens team won a Super Bowl. 

    In the 2012 playoffs they ran 139 att's and passed 126.

    This resulted in 16 offensive tds and 0 interceptions in 4 playoff games.


    The Ravens were the 16th rated offense in the league. Why is it that Joe Flacco played the best of any QB in the post season?

    Could it be that when a team commits to running the football that defense's cannot commit to the pass?

    Is Joe Flacco the best QB in the league or was his offense getting its receiving options wide open?

    Could any defense rush 4 and drop 7 against the Ravens knowing that the Ravens were going to run more then pass? No.

    Do defense's rush 4 and drop 7 against us and limit our offense? Yes.

    Run opens up the pass. Roger Goodel cannot change that. The Ravens didn't just get lucky against 4 playoff teams. They were the toughest team in the post season because they would punch you in the mouth on offense. We used to be that team. I think we were clearly getting back to it last year but look forward to our capabilities this year.

    I would love to see guys wide open for Tom Brady because the defense doesn't know what plays we will use, as opposed to Brady using his unparralled accuracy to deliver the ball into tight coverage and carrying us on his back as he had been doing on offense from 2009 till 2011.


     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

    2007 was a good example of a balanced offense, it wasn't a low scoring approach.  Being balanced doesn't mean you can't score a lot of points, that's a complete misconception.  

    During the 2010 regular season O'Brien was the most balanced of his Patriot tenure, Brady was most efficient that year not surprisingly, Obie came up with the great idea to ride Danny Woodhead in the post season, our post season lasted one game.

    Also I don't think it was coincidence when McDaniel came back the Pats went on a tightend/fullback shopping spree...

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"
     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

    Really?

    I guess it's just coincidence that the "smash mouth" teams of the 70's featured some of the stingiest defenses in NFL history.


    "The worse New England has gotten on defense, the better Brady has been forced to become -- with 109 touchdowns, 20 interceptions and a 39-9 record the past three seasons. "

    CLARK JUDGE______7/13/13_____________________________________
                                  
                             



    He will surely win many best regular season QB award with those numbers. Of course to see how we have done when it matters in the playoffs we see a 3-4 Tom Brady playoff record since 2009 in which he has thrown 10 interceptions in those 7 games.

    Now the questions you have to ask yourself pezzy is why is it that one of the best QB's in the history of the sport can throw 109tds to 20 int's while posting a 39-9 record in the regular season go 3-4 with 10 int's and a few sack fumbles and safeties in the post season?

    Does he suddenly become un-clutch? No.

    Is it somehow our defense's fault that other teams defense's have been able to force the best QB in the LG to turn the ball over? No.

    Did we lose every good coach BB had in his Super bowl run to other teams(barring coach Scar)? Yes.

    Are we mentally tough in the post season the last 5 years? No.(Clutch? No.)

    Does good coaching help players mental toughness on the biggest stages? yes.

    Anyway I don't know why I get sucked into the same debate with the same 2 or 3 people. It's like the Rusty or the Babe thing. Circular logic over and over and over and over.

    14 points, 17 points, and 13 points scored are not good enough to win championships for a team that averages 33 ppg, neither is a one dimensional offense that has thrown 10 int's and 3 or 4 sack fumbles and a safety while going 3-4 in the playoffs for the last 5 years.

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"



    Thats not fair. Its not as black and white as that. Ravens scored less and their defense scoring ppg were only similar to ours due Us having a pretty good redzone D, but the fact we were on the field more, made our postseason a failure because our strength is passing and we tried to run on Bmore and it failed. You cant just point out that our ppg were close. Was that reg. season or playoffs??  My point is, our defense was nothing like Bmores. T.Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Pollard, etc,etc, 3 legit pass rushers. I mean its not even close. We had no playmakers in our secondary after Talib went out. Pollard single handedly took out our whole passing offense by cleaning Welkers clock and rendering him useless. Game over. Who on our defense last year could have made that impact in the secondary??  Lets hope Adrain can THIS year

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"



    Thats not fair. Its not as black and white as that. Ravens scored less and their defense scoring ppg were only similar to ours due Us having a pretty good redzone D, but the fact we were on the field more, made our postseason a failure because our strength is passing and we tried to run on Bmore and it failed. You cant just point out that our ppg were close. Was that reg. season or playoffs??  My point is, our defense was nothing like Bmores. T.Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Pollard, etc,etc, 3 legit pass rushers. I mean its not even close. We had no playmakers in our secondary after Talib went out. Pollard single handedly took out our whole passing offense by cleaning Welkers clock and rendering him useless. Game over. Who on our defense last year could have made that impact in the secondary??  Lets hope Adrain can THIS year

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That wasn't in reference to them beating us. That was in reference to the ridiculous notion that you need a dominant defense in order to run a ground and pound offense. That a ground and pound offense will result in less scoring. The Ravens just ran 139 times to 126 passes in 4 playoff games where they scored 16 tds to zero interceptions. They had the 17th ranked defense and gave up 21.5 ppg. I was just pointing out that is a flawed notion.

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:


    That wasn't in reference to them beating us. That was in reference to the ridiculous notion that you need a dominant defense in order to run a ground and pound offense. That a ground and pound offense will result in less scoring. The Ravens just ran 139 times to 126 passes in 4 playoff games where they scored 16 tds to zero interceptions. They had the 17th ranked defense and gave up 21.5 ppg. I was just pointing out that is a flawed notion.



    it is about the the defense giving up fewer points than the number of points one's offense can score.  When it's about one last game, the SB, averages don't mean diddly. That being said, if a team matches well against the Patriots in that final game (meaning, stops Brady/offense from scoring many points), the defense has to give up less.

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

     

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

      OK

    Apples to apples:  The Ravens D allowed 21.5 points in 2012 and the Pats D allowed 28,

    Apples to oranges:  The Ravens D allowed 21.5 points pg in 2012, while playing in 4 games which totaled 50 possessions.

    The Pats D allowed 20.7 in 2011, while playing in 3 games, totaling 32 possessions.

    The Ravens gave up .8 more points per game while their D had to make 18 more Defensive stops than the 2011 Pats D did.  That means their D had to make 4.5 MORE STOPS per game to achieve their average.

    The Ravens  D also accomplished this while playing  MUCH BETTER OFFENSES than the Pats played.

    Indy, (10th) Denver (4th), NE (1st) and San Fran (11th). 

    Thanks for making my point.


    "The worse New England has gotten on defense, the better Brady has been forced to become -- with 109 touchdowns, 20 interceptions and a 39-9 record the past three seasons. "

    CLARK JUDGE______7/13/13_____________________________________
                                  
                             

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

    Really?

    I guess it's just coincidence that the "smash mouth" teams of the 70's featured some of the stingiest defenses in NFL history.


    "The worse New England has gotten on defense, the better Brady has been forced to become -- with 109 touchdowns, 20 interceptions and a 39-9 record the past three seasons. "

    CLARK JUDGE______7/13/13_____________________________________
                                  
                             

     



    That's the regular season where defenses suck most of the time. Again, with the rule changes from Goodell and an emphasis on HELPING offenses with bogus calls left and right, EVERY QB's numbers are up.

     

    UP.

    Drew Brees was not like this in San Diego, for example. He was a very good game maneger like Brady, but not like this.

    What's ironic is, Brees is a better QB now with better stats. Brady has better stats, but he's a WORSE QB than what he used to be.

    So, Clark Judge can say whatever he wants, but when I see my QB channel Mark Sanchez or Rex Grossman in a playoff game because he gets complacent as a QB in the regular season, spoiled with weaponry, his O Line, etc, and then is challenged in January, only to fail, YES, I will comment on why Judge's numbers are MEANINGLESS.

    It's about winning, not stats.

    I am more proud of Brady in SD throwing 3 INTs and battling while somewhat undermanned in the talent department, winning that game, than at ANY other time in the postseason SINCE.

    Since.

    That's 6 years ago!

    I am sorry, but lighting up a bad D in an offensive era is not that impressive to me.  It just isn't. So many QBs do it now.  Stafford, Brees, Rodgers, Flacco, Manning, Brady, and on and on and on.

    Goodell is setting this up for QBs to put up gaudy stats for ratings, fantasy football, revenue, profits, merchandising, you name it. It's all a business.

    All I care about is that point in January where Brady needs to make that right decision. That's what he's paid for. When he makes the wrong one (or ones), we lose.

    Very, very simple, Pezzy.  Someday you'll wake up and realize it's 2013.

    The big secret to ALL of this however, is to not forget the basics.  The basics include dictating with your running game, or at least trying to. That wil never go away. Ever.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The basis is:  teams with good D's run more, especially in the second half where they don't have to worry about their D allowing a 75% scoring completion in an already pathetic 4 possession half.

    That is foot ball 101 and will never change.

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    BJGE, our lead back had barely 9 carries total for a game in which we led 17-12 in the second half.

    We should be worrying about our QB throwing over 45 times with a lead and tossing INTs on 1st down, apparently for his own entertainment, vs ignoring our good run game we've buried (by choice) for years.

    I am MORE worried about what Tom Brady does than what our pass D does at this point. Sad truth.

     

     




    Again, teams with GOOD D's will run more, especially in the second half, (where most teams run with the lead)  WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEIR D GIVING UP 75% SCORING IN AN ALREADY PATHETIC 4 POSSESSION HALF.  (which was caused by the D's inability to get off the field in both halves)  UGH

     

    Good D's allow less than 33% scoring, not 75%  UGH

    A good D would have allowed 1 score in the second half, with 4 possessions, not 3.

    A good D will allow 2 scores in 6 possessions, not 3 of 4.

    A good D won't ROB THEIR OWN O of 4 opportunities to score in a game where the idea is to get their O as many scoring opportunities as possible.

    A good D wouldn't have only 4 possessions in the second half, they would have an average of 6. UGH

    When will you learn?

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

     

    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"

     



    Thats not fair. Its not as black and white as that. Ravens scored less and their defense scoring ppg were only similar to ours due Us having a pretty good redzone D, but the fact we were on the field more, made our postseason a failure because our strength is passing and we tried to run on Bmore and it failed. You cant just point out that our ppg were close. Was that reg. season or playoffs??  My point is, our defense was nothing like Bmores. T.Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Pollard, etc,etc, 3 legit pass rushers. I mean its not even close. We had no playmakers in our secondary after Talib went out. Pollard single handedly took out our whole passing offense by cleaning Welkers clock and rendering him useless. Game over. Who on our defense last year could have made that impact in the secondary??  Lets hope Adrain can THIS year

     

     




    That wasn't in reference to them beating us. That was in reference to the ridiculous notion that you need a dominant defense in order to run a ground and pound offense. That a ground and pound offense will result in less scoring. The Ravens just ran 139 times to 126 passes in 4 playoff games where they scored 16 tds to zero interceptions. They had the 17th ranked defense and gave up 21.5 ppg. I was just pointing out that is a flawed notion.

     




    Exactly, but like I said its not that simple. In the reg. season, The Ravens were a passing team. Flacco is not a game manager anymore. Its just that once the postseason started, they know what it takes to win. We also tried to change and run more and we were stuffed, hence Bmore has a better Defense. You also are going by Bmore did in the reg. season defensively and discounting that they stepped up and played better in postseason. Bmore has some veterans on D who know how to play. They have seen it all. Outside of Wilfork, noone has any real experience. I just dont see how you are trying to compare a defense with Ray Lewis(best of all time arguably, Ed Reed,(best BB has seen in 35 years), Pollard(taken out 4 pats players to date), Haloti Ngata. Ellerbe, Suggs, Kruger, aynebadejo, Upshaw to a defense that ranked almost last in pass defense and has no stars outside of Wilfork and Mayo on D. Ravens have had a dominant defense Since as long as I can remember. Lewis was there when they won the 1st one. Flacco taking the next step is what got them over the hump. We have Brady and coach sooo we are missing 2 things. A competent run game in the playoffs(check last years ypc) and a great defense. Teams were lining up to sign practically ALL their defensive players and who exactly was calling BB to take our defenders??? lol, Reed is almost 40 and still better than any safety we had last year, what does that tell you? Our starting safety in SB 46, was only a 3rd string/special teamer on the Ravens....lol, I could go on, but I like you. You are smart and know football, dont proclaim that a run team doesnt need a good defense. I could argue that the Ravens arent even a run team under Flacco. You dont pay a guy a 20 plus milly to run a ball control offense Champ, you know that.

     

    IN the reg. season the Ravens run/pass ratio was 537 - 440 in favor of passing. Most likely they ran more in the postseason because thats what you are supposed to do, but the fact they had a great defense that got off the field allowed them to run more in January. IN reg. season they passed just like us. How many games did u hear announcers say they should use more Ray Rice???  Sorry, cant agree with that. People point to our 29th ranked pass D and say they are better so Im saying the Ravens 17 ranked D is a farce. They played like us in reg .season so the numbers are skewed but in postseason they played perfectly and would not have won anything without that Defense led by HoF'ers Lewis and Reed

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

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    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"

     



    Thats not fair. Its not as black and white as that. Ravens scored less and their defense scoring ppg were only similar to ours due Us having a pretty good redzone D, but the fact we were on the field more, made our postseason a failure because our strength is passing and we tried to run on Bmore and it failed. You cant just point out that our ppg were close. Was that reg. season or playoffs??  My point is, our defense was nothing like Bmores. T.Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Pollard, etc,etc, 3 legit pass rushers. I mean its not even close. We had no playmakers in our secondary after Talib went out. Pollard single handedly took out our whole passing offense by cleaning Welkers clock and rendering him useless. Game over. Who on our defense last year could have made that impact in the secondary??  Lets hope Adrain can THIS year

     

     




    That wasn't in reference to them beating us. That was in reference to the ridiculous notion that you need a dominant defense in order to run a ground and pound offense. That a ground and pound offense will result in less scoring. The Ravens just ran 139 times to 126 passes in 4 playoff games where they scored 16 tds to zero interceptions. They had the 17th ranked defense and gave up 21.5 ppg. I was just pointing out that is a flawed notion.

     

     




     

    Exactly, but like I said its not that simple. In the reg. season, The Ravens were a passing team. Flacco is not a game manager anymore. Its just that once the postseason started, they know what it takes to win. Exactly. They knew what it took to win with maybe the best post season offense in recent NFL history.139-126 rush to pass. 16 tds - 0 int's.

    Actually they dominated on offense and carried their old and worn down defense in the Super Bowl and Broncos game. They let up 35 and 31 points in those 2 games How is that dominant? Only against us and rookie Andrew Luck did their defense dominate.

    We also tried to change and run more and we were stuffed, hence Bmore has a better Defense. I disagree that Baltimore had a better defense then us. We gave up less ppg and nearly lead the league in turnovers.

    You also are going byBmore did in the reg. season defensively and discounting that they stepped up and played better in postseason. Bmore has some veterans on D who know how to play. They have seen it all. Outside of Wilfork, noone has any real experience. I just dont see how you are trying to compare a defense with Ray Lewis(best of all time arguably, Ed Reed,(best BB has seen in 35 years), Pollard(taken out 4 pats players to date), Haloti Ngata. Ellerbe, Suggs, Kruger, aynebadejo, Upshaw to a defense that ranked almost last in pass defense and has no stars outside of Wilfork and Mayo on D. Ravens have had a dominant defense Since as long as I can remember.That defense was nothing close to what they had when Lewis and Reed were in their primes.

    Lewis was there when they won the 1st one. Flacco taking the next step is what got them over the hump. We have Brady and coach sooo we are missing 2 things. A competent run game in the playoffs(check last years ypc) and a great defense. Teams were lining up to sign practically ALL their defensive players and who exactly was calling BB to take our defenders??? lol, Reed is almost 40 and still better than any safety we had last year, what does that tell you? Our starting safety in SB 46, was only a 3rd string/special teamer on the Ravens....lol, I could go on, but I like you. You are smart and know football, dont proclaim that a run team doesnt need a good defense. I could argue that the Ravens arent even a run team under Flacco.You dont pay a guy a 20 plus milly to run a ball control offense Champ, you know that. It isn't about being a ball control offense as much as it is about keeping a defense guessing and preventing them from the successful formula of dropping 6-7 guys into coverage and limiting our passing game. This has been the key to forcing Brady into 10 int's and a few sack fumbles in his last 7 post season games. This is why our offense needs to have a better balance and more variety. 

     

    IN the reg. season the Ravens run/pass ratio was 537 - 440 in favor of passing. Most likely they ran more in the postseason because thats what you are supposed to do, but the fact they had a great defense that got off the field allowed them to run more in January. IN reg. season they passed just like us. How many games did u hear announcers say they should use more Ray Rice???  Sorry, cant agree with that. People point to our 29th ranked pass D and say they are better so Im saying the Ravens 17 ranked D is a farce. They played like us in reg .season so the numbers are skewed but in postseason they played perfectly and would not have won anything without that Defense led by HoF'ers Lewis and Reed

    WHAT? They had 16 offensive tds to ZERO Int's while running more then passing. They could run and pass. In the playoffs nobody could stop an offense that was middle of the pack in the regular season. Of course they could have won without the defense. They threw 3 tds in the 1st half against one of the best defense's in football in the super bowl. ???

    [/QUOTE]


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

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    Oh by the way. The Ravens defense allowed 21.5 ppg. The Patriots defense allowed 20.7 ppg. I guess the Ravens didn't know you have to have a great defense in order to have a ground and pound offense.

    Maybe they should have read some of Prolate and Pezzys break downs as to why our offense is predictable.....it's obviously the defense's fault. If only the Ravens were in the know.....they might not have ran 139 times to 126 passes for 16 tds and zero interceptions while winning a Super Bowl. Damn.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"

     



    Thats not fair. Its not as black and white as that. Ravens scored less and their defense scoring ppg were only similar to ours due Us having a pretty good redzone D, but the fact we were on the field more, made our postseason a failure because our strength is passing and we tried to run on Bmore and it failed. You cant just point out that our ppg were close. Was that reg. season or playoffs??  My point is, our defense was nothing like Bmores. T.Suggs, Lewis, Reed, Pollard, etc,etc, 3 legit pass rushers. I mean its not even close. We had no playmakers in our secondary after Talib went out. Pollard single handedly took out our whole passing offense by cleaning Welkers clock and rendering him useless. Game over. Who on our defense last year could have made that impact in the secondary??  Lets hope Adrain can THIS year

     

     




    That wasn't in reference to them beating us. That was in reference to the ridiculous notion that you need a dominant defense in order to run a ground and pound offense. That a ground and pound offense will result in less scoring. The Ravens just ran 139 times to 126 passes in 4 playoff games where they scored 16 tds to zero interceptions. They had the 17th ranked defense and gave up 21.5 ppg. I was just pointing out that is a flawed notion.

     

     

     




     

     

    Exactly, but like I said its not that simple. In the reg. season, The Ravens were a passing team. Flacco is not a game manager anymore. Its just that once the postseason started, they know what it takes to win. Exactly. They knew what it took to win with maybe the best post season offense in recent NFL history.139-126 rush to pass. 16 tds - 0 int's.

    Actually they dominated on offense and carried their old and worn down defense in the Super Bowl and Broncos game. They let up 35 and 31 points in those 2 games How is that dominant? Only against us and rookie Andrew Luck did their defense dominate.

    We also tried to change and run more and we were stuffed, hence Bmore has a better Defense. I disagree that Baltimore had a better defense then us. We gave up less ppg and nearly lead the league in turnovers.

    You also are going byBmore did in the reg. season defensively and discounting that they stepped up and played better in postseason. Bmore has some veterans on D who know how to play. They have seen it all. Outside of Wilfork, noone has any real experience. I just dont see how you are trying to compare a defense with Ray Lewis(best of all time arguably, Ed Reed,(best BB has seen in 35 years), Pollard(taken out 4 pats players to date), Haloti Ngata. Ellerbe, Suggs, Kruger, aynebadejo, Upshaw to a defense that ranked almost last in pass defense and has no stars outside of Wilfork and Mayo on D. Ravens have had a dominant defense Since as long as I can remember.That defense was nothing close to what they had when Lewis and Reed were in their primes.

    Lewis was there when they won the 1st one. Flacco taking the next step is what got them over the hump. We have Brady and coach sooo we are missing 2 things. A competent run game in the playoffs(check last years ypc) and a great defense. Teams were lining up to sign practically ALL their defensive players and who exactly was calling BB to take our defenders??? lol, Reed is almost 40 and still better than any safety we had last year, what does that tell you? Our starting safety in SB 46, was only a 3rd string/special teamer on the Ravens....lol, I could go on, but I like you. You are smart and know football, dont proclaim that a run team doesnt need a good defense. I could argue that the Ravens arent even a run team under Flacco.You dont pay a guy a 20 plus milly to run a ball control offense Champ, you know that. It isn't about being a ball control offense as much as it is about keeping a defense guessing and preventing them from the successful formula of dropping 6-7 guys into coverage and limiting our passing game. This has been the key to forcing Brady into 10 int's and a few sack fumbles in his last 7 post season games. This is why our offense needs to have a better balance and more variety. 

     

    IN the reg. season the Ravens run/pass ratio was 537 - 440 in favor of passing. Most likely they ran more in the postseason because thats what you are supposed to do, but the fact they had a great defense that got off the field allowed them to run more in January. IN reg. season they passed just like us. How many games did u hear announcers say they should use more Ray Rice???  Sorry, cant agree with that. People point to our 29th ranked pass D and say they are better so Im saying the Ravens 17 ranked D is a farce. They played like us in reg .season so the numbers are skewed but in postseason they played perfectly and would not have won anything without that Defense led by HoF'ers Lewis and Reed

    WHAT? They had 16 offensive tds to ZERO Int's while running more then passing. They could run and pass. In the playoffs nobody could stop an offense that was middle of the pack in the regular season. Of course they could have won without the defense. They threw 3 tds in the 1st half against one of the best defense's in football in the super bowl. ???




     

     



    So what you should have said is that Bmore was able to be more balanced than us. The teams that faced them didnt drop 7 because the Ravens have a pro bowl RB that has to be respected. After Pollard knocked Ridley into next week, our run game wasnt respected anymore. The rest of our backs were scat backs(woody and vareen). Sure Lewis and Reed werent what they were in their primes but still waaay better than what we had. How many impact plays did our LB Mayo have in the AFFCG. I cant recall but he did get run over by Ray Rice. If you wanna point out the fact they gave up some points well they can afford to because they have WR's who cant be covered and make plays no matter what. Torrey and Anquon had excellent postseason while our starters Wes(butterfingers) and Lloyd(cant get open) did sqaut. That wasnt Bradys fault and we tried to run and got stuffed. U can talk about giving up points, but sure made the plays when it counted.

    If you wanna lay blame on our offensive skill players I would agree, but its BB who brought em in. I have stated the last 3 years that we  aint winning nothing with Wes as our go to guy. After the season was over, why was it that an aging WR was given a decent contract in Bolden and our guy LLoyd (who is still young) who played for a mere 3 million last year was cut, not brought back even after losing Wes and A.H. and NO OTHER team has picked HIM up. Oh and that guy Wes, yea he only got 6 mill/per on the open market after more than half the folks here predicted over 10...I kept saying slot Wr's are nothing special and bloated uneven stats due to having no other personell means nothing. Now we see it first hand. NO one wanted the guys we had on offense. Even Randy was passed around after he left here like a drunk college Ho on mollys...  We need to give Tom Better Weapons which bring us to this year....Ahhhh, the security of rookie and injury prone players,...Must be gratifying for ol' Tom heh?   lol

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

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     I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I would say a coordinators job entails a lot more than play calling, they have a huge say in personnel matters on their side of the ball as well, if the offense became a lopsided imbalanced unit (which it did 2009-1011) it probably had a lot to do with Bill O'Brien not being able to express what he thought he needed on his side of the ball and/or not knowing what was missing.  

    I was also pretty explicit when I mentioned that 2009 Super Bowl was an anomaly in comparison to the overall history of the big game and only made possible by Goodell's new mandate that the zebras control the outcomes of the games with penalty flags.

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

     

     

     



    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

     

     

     

     

     

     




    Well if Donald Rumsfield said it...

     

     

    Here is a look at what a healthy run attack can do for a team that is middle of the pack offense and middle of the pack defense. 16th and 17th for the 2012 season.

    In the playoffs this teams pass to rush numbers were as follows

    Game 1 they had 32 rush att's to 23 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    Game 2 they had 39 rush att's to 34 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 3 they had 33 rush att's to 36 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 4 they had 35 rush att's to 33 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    In that last game this middle of the pack Ravens team won a Super Bowl. 

    In the 2012 playoffs they ran 139 att's and passed 126.

    This resulted in 16 offensive tds and 0 interceptions in 4 playoff games.


    The Ravens were the 16th rated offense in the league. Why is it that Joe Flacco played the best of any QB in the post season?

    Could it be that when a team commits to running the football that defense's cannot commit to the pass?

    Is Joe Flacco the best QB in the league or was his offense getting its receiving options wide open?

    Could any defense rush 4 and drop 7 against the Ravens knowing that the Ravens were going to run more then pass? No.

    Do defense's rush 4 and drop 7 against us and limit our offense? Yes.

    Run opens up the pass. Roger Goodel cannot change that. The Ravens didn't just get lucky against 4 playoff teams. They were the toughest team in the post season because they would punch you in the mouth on offense. We used to be that team. I think we were clearly getting back to it last year but look forward to our capabilities this year.

    I would love to see guys wide open for Tom Brady because the defense doesn't know what plays we will use, as opposed to Brady using his unparralled accuracy to deliver the ball into tight coverage and carrying us on his back as he had been doing on offense from 2009 till 2011.

     

     



    Actually they had 14 offensive TDs and 4 FGs, which averages 27.5 ppg from the offense (one of their TDs was a kick off return and one a defensive score).  The Pats awful offense averaged 27.0 ppg during the playoffs.  If only the Pats had got that extra half point they would have won the Super Bowl? 

     

    Also worth pointing out that through the 2012 playoffs the Ravens defense gave up 7 TDs in four games.  The Pats D gave up 7 in just two.  Overall, the Ravens defense gave up 18.25 ppg, while the Pats D gave up 28 ppg.  

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    Another thing,. why is it that our Offense has been so good lately?? I mean there are no high picks right? Brady was a 6th rounder. Wes went undrafted. Look at all the high picks on defense contributing to what? Mayo, McCourty, Talib, Wilfork, Jones, Hightower, Spikes(2nd), Ras I, etc and they dont do zilch when it counts. BUT, we expect an offense full of retreads led by a 6th round pick to overcome everything. How come NOONE picks up offensive players after they leave here? Do you know why we lost SB 42? Well because Brady and Mos combined for 50 TD's and NOONE was paying attention to Laura Maroney in the Sb, despite Rusty saying he was good enough. The whole defense was geared for the pass and he still  couldnt do squat! He left here healthy via trade to Denver(favor from Josh) and proceeded to more squats and ended up in jail once he realized his career which never should have been was over. These are guys u wanted us to establish a run with? Its a joke how we even expected Brady to get that far with the crap personell he has been given most years. I mean think about this, we had Branch, Stallworth and Gaffney in camp last year...LOL!  Thats like the Steelers bringing back Hines Ward....LMAO!  

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

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     I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I would say a coordinators job entails a lot more than play calling, they have a huge say in personnel matters on their side of the ball as well, if the offense became a lopsided imbalanced unit (which it did 2009-1011) it probably had a lot to do with Bill O'Brien not being able to express what he thought he needed on his side of the ball and/or not knowing what was missing.  

    I was also pretty explicit when I mentioned that 2009 Super Bowl was an anomaly in comparison to the overall history of the big game and only made possible by Goodell's new mandate that the zebras control the outcomes of the games with penalty flags.

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

     

     

     



    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

     

     

     

     

     

     




    Well if Donald Rumsfield said it...

     

     

    Here is a look at what a healthy run attack can do for a team that is middle of the pack offense and middle of the pack defense. 16th and 17th for the 2012 season.

    In the playoffs this teams pass to rush numbers were as follows

    Game 1 they had 32 rush att's to 23 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    Game 2 they had 39 rush att's to 34 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 3 they had 33 rush att's to 36 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 4 they had 35 rush att's to 33 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    In that last game this middle of the pack Ravens team won a Super Bowl. 

    In the 2012 playoffs they ran 139 att's and passed 126.

    This resulted in 16 offensive tds and 0 interceptions in 4 playoff games.


    The Ravens were the 16th rated offense in the league. Why is it that Joe Flacco played the best of any QB in the post season?

    Could it be that when a team commits to running the football that defense's cannot commit to the pass?

    Is Joe Flacco the best QB in the league or was his offense getting its receiving options wide open?

    Could any defense rush 4 and drop 7 against the Ravens knowing that the Ravens were going to run more then pass? No.

    Do defense's rush 4 and drop 7 against us and limit our offense? Yes.

    Run opens up the pass. Roger Goodel cannot change that. The Ravens didn't just get lucky against 4 playoff teams. They were the toughest team in the post season because they would punch you in the mouth on offense. We used to be that team. I think we were clearly getting back to it last year but look forward to our capabilities this year.

    I would love to see guys wide open for Tom Brady because the defense doesn't know what plays we will use, as opposed to Brady using his unparralled accuracy to deliver the ball into tight coverage and carrying us on his back as he had been doing on offense from 2009 till 2011.

     

     



    Actually they had 14 offensive TDs and 4 FGs, which averages 27.5 ppg from the offense (one of their TDs was a kick off return and one a defensive score).  The Pats awful offense averaged 27.0 ppg during the playoffs.  If only the Pats had got that extra half point they would have won the Super Bowl? 

     

    Also worth pointing out that through the 2012 playoffs the Ravens defense gave up 7 TDs in four games.  The Pats D gave up 7 in just two.  Overall, the Ravens defense gave up 18.25 ppg, while the Pats D gave up 28 ppg.  

     




    Yep, those numbers sound much more accurate. I mean we played 2 games, gave up 28 points each game so that should average out tooooooo, Yep. 28 points!  smh

     
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    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

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    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     I wonder if some people even watch the games.  I mean, really, in 2010, the Packers ran 43.5% of the time through the playoffs and won the Super Bowl while passing 43 times and running just 13 times.  In 2009, the Saints, "breesed" through the playoffs running just 41.9% of the time and won the Super Bowl passing 40 times and running just 18 (and the 18 includes Brees's kneel down).  Yeah, the Steelers and Ravens were more balanced, but they also are good defensive teams.  You can win with "ground and pound" balance when you have a good defense.  When you have a bad defense, you have to pass a lot and try to score.  Bill Belichick knows this, which is why he does what he does.  It has nothing at all to do with Brady calling the wrong plays or bad offensive coordinators.  It's basic football. And Belichick does it exactly the way it should be done.  The team lost because the defense isn't good enough to hold leads and the offense has been too one-dimensional.  But the problem is not, never has been, and never will be Bill Belichick's (or his OCs or QBs) play calling.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I would say a coordinators job entails a lot more than play calling, they have a huge say in personnel matters on their side of the ball as well, if the offense became a lopsided imbalanced unit (which it did 2009-1011) it probably had a lot to do with Bill O'Brien not being able to express what he thought he needed on his side of the ball and/or not knowing what was missing.  

    I was also pretty explicit when I mentioned that 2009 Super Bowl was an anomaly in comparison to the overall history of the big game and only made possible by Goodell's new mandate that the zebras control the outcomes of the games with penalty flags.

    Ground and pound can be run with any defense, it will make the defense better and is particularly good with an opportunistic defense that gathers turnovers.  The idea that you don't run the ball because you think your defense is no good is a fabrication in your mind as silly as Rusty's notion that "Brady is a problem."

     

     

     



    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

     

     

     

     

     

     




    Well if Donald Rumsfield said it...

     

     

    Here is a look at what a healthy run attack can do for a team that is middle of the pack offense and middle of the pack defense. 16th and 17th for the 2012 season.

    In the playoffs this teams pass to rush numbers were as follows

    Game 1 they had 32 rush att's to 23 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    Game 2 they had 39 rush att's to 34 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 3 they had 33 rush att's to 36 pass att's 4 tds 0 int's

    Game 4 they had 35 rush att's to 33 pass att's 3 tds 0 int's

    In that last game this middle of the pack Ravens team won a Super Bowl. 

    In the 2012 playoffs they ran 139 att's and passed 126.

    This resulted in 16 offensive tds and 0 interceptions in 4 playoff games.


    The Ravens were the 16th rated offense in the league. Why is it that Joe Flacco played the best of any QB in the post season?

    Could it be that when a team commits to running the football that defense's cannot commit to the pass?

    Is Joe Flacco the best QB in the league or was his offense getting its receiving options wide open?

    Could any defense rush 4 and drop 7 against the Ravens knowing that the Ravens were going to run more then pass? No.

    Do defense's rush 4 and drop 7 against us and limit our offense? Yes.

    Run opens up the pass. Roger Goodel cannot change that. The Ravens didn't just get lucky against 4 playoff teams. They were the toughest team in the post season because they would punch you in the mouth on offense. We used to be that team. I think we were clearly getting back to it last year but look forward to our capabilities this year.

    I would love to see guys wide open for Tom Brady because the defense doesn't know what plays we will use, as opposed to Brady using his unparralled accuracy to deliver the ball into tight coverage and carrying us on his back as he had been doing on offense from 2009 till 2011.

     

     



    Actually they had 14 offensive TDs and 4 FGs, which averages 27.5 ppg from the offense (one of their TDs was a kick off return and one a defensive score).  The Pats awful offense averaged 27.0 ppg during the playoffs.  If only the Pats had got that extra half point they would have won the Super Bowl? 

     

    Also worth pointing out that through the 2012 playoffs the Ravens defense gave up 7 TDs in four games.  The Pats D gave up 7 in just two.  Overall, the Ravens defense gave up 18.25 ppg, while the Pats D gave up 28 ppg.  

     

     




     

    Yep, those numbers sound much more accurate. I mean we played 2 games, gave up 28 points each game so that should average out tooooooo, Yep. 28 points!  smh

    [/QUOTE]

    Also, in regulation, the Ravens offense scored just 28 points against Denver. And they scored just 27 against SF.  There were defensive scores and special teams scores in those games, but the Ravens offense wasn't nearly as productive as True Champ is attempting to portray.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Ground and pound is generally a low scoring approach so it requires a good defense.  I think in 2011 O'Brien and Belichick realized their defense was a problem and so sat down and designed an offense that could score like crazy.  It wasn't the perfect offense by any means (and yes it was very imbalanced and predictable), but it worked very well with the players they had.  If they could have acquired a lot of different players, maybe they would have done something different.  But as Donald Rumsfeld said, you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want . . .

     

     

     

     

    2007 was a good example of a balanced offense, it wasn't a low scoring approach.  Being balanced doesn't mean you can't score a lot of points, that's a complete misconception.  

    During the 2010 regular season O'Brien was the most balanced of his Patriot tenure, Brady was most efficient that year not surprisingly, Obie came up with the great idea to ride Danny Woodhead in the post season, our post season lasted one game.

    Also I don't think it was coincidence when McDaniel came back the Pats went on a tightend/fullback shopping spree...

     




     

    But in 2007 they passed 57% of the time and ran 43%.  That's less balanced actually than they were last year or in 2010 and only slightly more balanced than 2011.

    In 2007, in a typical game they would have passed 37 times and ran 28 times.  In 2011, in a typical game, they passed 38 times and ran 27 times.  The increased balance amounts to one play per game switching from a pass to a run.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Another thing,. why is it that our Offense has been so good lately?? I mean there are no high picks right? Brady was a 6th rounder. Wes went undrafted. Look at all the high picks on defense contributing to what? Mayo, McCourty, Talib, Wilfork, Jones, Hightower, Spikes(2nd), Ras I, etc and they dont do zilch when it counts. BUT, we expect an offense full of retreads led by a 6th round pick to overcome everything. How come NOONE picks up offensive players after they leave here? Do you know why we lost SB 42? Well because Brady and Mos combined for 50 TD's and NOONE was paying attention to Laura Maroney in the Sb, despite Rusty saying he was good enough. The whole defense was geared for the pass and he still  couldnt do squat! He left here healthy via trade to Denver(favor from Josh) and proceeded to more squats and ended up in jail once he realized his career which never should have been was over. These are guys u wanted us to establish a run with? Its a joke how we even expected Brady to get that far with the crap personell he has been given most years. I mean think about this, we had Branch, Stallworth and Gaffney in camp last year...LOL!  Thats like the Steelers bringing back Hines Ward....LMAO!  

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     




    Did you just say Brady's loaded weaponry is an offense "full of retreads"? What a troll.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He's got an interesting point.  In recent years, there have been very few high round picks on the offense--at least not young ones.  On the line, Mankins and Solder are both first rounders, but no one else I don't believe.   Other than Moss, have we had a first round wide receiver, tight end, or running back in the past three or four seasons?  Gronk is a first round talent, but he slipped to the second because of injury concerns (and valid ones, apparently).  The offense is built of mid- to late round talent and undrafted free agents.  Really, when you think of it, it's amazing what Brady and Belichick do with these guys . . .

     

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     




    It's a crappy point. Johnny Unitas was never drafted and Pitt passed on him.

     

    The moral of the story is that no one knows how a prospects career might progress at the professional level.

    It doesn't matter where someone was drafted.  The only way it matters is if you have a 1st rd pick who is a bust where it hurts your cap position and overall roster.

    I think it's amazing what BB has done in the cap era. 

    I think it's amazing how underrated Ivan Fears or Scarnecchia are. I think it's amazing BB has such loyal assistants to keep the consistency going. I think it's amazing BB knows he can't pay everyone top market money so he has to pick and choose and then strategize best, how he can fill in the gaps.

    I think it's amazing Brady went almost undrafted but the Pats saw something in him and kept 4 QBs on the roster in 2000 just to see what they had in him.

    That's what I think is amazing.

    Brady has been spoiled beyond belief for years on offense.  Top tier O lines, HOF WRs like a Moss or Welker, a HOF TE like a Gronk, really nice talent at RB now, etc, etc, etc.

    The excuses have simply got to stop.  Running around here trying to change history or twist facts, to tapdance around his poor play won't be able to continue.

    Brady has about 3 years left, his best he's going to see in his late 30s and it's up to him how he wants to manage the offense, the decision he makes, and how he executes.  This is a very, very hot topic outside of this little board bubble. Trust me, it is. NFL fans are talking about Brady every offseason and why he's faded in the postseason. No one cares about where people are drafted. They care about what they see in the postseason.

    Stephen Neal was undrafted and has 3 rings.  What is the difference? Our D is loaded and young with experience. The offense has a chance to show more balance than it has in years or at least since the second half of 2010 after BB jettisoned Brady's binky in Moss.

    This is not a mirage, dude. THis is it.  Brady has a chance to capture his old skills once again, if he wants to, regardless of where people were drafted.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You kind of speak out of both sides of your mouth on Welker, Rusty.  On one hand, he's no good and the Pats were smart to let him walk because $6 million was more than he was worth, on the other hand he's HOF talent.  You try to argue yourself out of this predicament by saying they let Welker go because Brady had some kind of obsession with him and Belichick was trying to break them apart (i.e., when logic fails, resort to crazy talk).

    A more balanced perspective is that Welker was okay, but Brady (and the offensive system) made him look great.  Even Moss was pretty mediocre before and after he was with the Pats.  Maybe Brady makes bad or washed up players look good?  

    Objectively, Brady hasn't had fabulous weapons around him.  I've been saying that for years.  The offense hasn't been that talented, hasn't been deep, and hasn't been diverse.  I think Belichick and Brady and the OCs do a great job getting such exceptional results from a group that is in many ways an odd collection of misfit talent.  Welker is a great slot receiver, but no one other than Bill Belichick was after this guy when he played for the Dolphins.  Moss had true HOF talent, but he was underperforming in Oakland and hasn't done much since he left the Pats.  Running backs like Sammy Morris and BJGE aren't world beaters.  Deion Branch in his second incarnation?  Julian Edelman?  Brandon (cut after one year) Lloyd?  Danny Woodhead?  Sure Gronk and Hern are (were) legitimate NFL starters and Ridley and Vereen seem like decent backs and hopefully some of the rookies this year pan out, but beyond that, the skill positions haven't been the strongest in the NFL by a long shot.  Brady has done very well to run a top-scoring offense given the collection of guys BB has provided him with.  It's not Brady who's responsible for the team's failure to win a Super Bowl.  In fact, without Brady, they would have never even come close to the Super Bowl--they may not have even made the playoffs.  And similarly, it's not the offensive coordinators who messed up.  This offense didn't really have the raw talent to be one of the top-scoring offense's in NFL history.  But Brady, Belichick, O'Brien, and McDaniels made it that by getting the absolute most out of limited talent. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Improved D No Doubt Helps, But Expect The Offense to Bring Home the Lombardi Trophy.......

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     




    It's a crappy point. Johnny Unitas was never drafted and Pitt passed on him.

     

     

    The moral of the story is that no one knows how a prospects career might progress at the professional level.

    It doesn't matter where someone was drafted.  The only way it matters is if you have a 1st rd pick who is a bust where it hurts your cap position and overall roster.

    I think it's amazing what BB has done in the cap era. 

    I think it's amazing how underrated Ivan Fears or Scarnecchia are. I think it's amazing BB has such loyal assistants to keep the consistency going. I think it's amazing BB knows he can't pay everyone top market money so he has to pick and choose and then strategize best, how he can fill in the gaps.

    I think it's amazing Brady went almost undrafted but the Pats saw something in him and kept 4 QBs on the roster in 2000 just to see what they had in him.

    That's what I think is amazing.

    Brady has been spoiled beyond belief for years on offense.  Top tier O lines, HOF WRs like a Moss or Welker, a HOF TE like a Gronk, really nice talent at RB now, etc, etc, etc.

    The excuses have simply got to stop.  Running around here trying to change history or twist facts, to tapdance around his poor play won't be able to continue.

    Brady has about 3 years left, his best he's going to see in his late 30s and it's up to him how he wants to manage the offense, the decision he makes, and how he executes.  This is a very, very hot topic outside of this little board bubble. Trust me, it is. NFL fans are talking about Brady every offseason and why he's faded in the postseason. No one cares about where people are drafted. They care about what they see in the postseason.

    Stephen Neal was undrafted and has 3 rings.  What is the difference? Our D is loaded and young with experience. The offense has a chance to show more balance than it has in years or at least since the second half of 2010 after BB jettisoned Brady's binky in Moss.

    This is not a mirage, dude. THis is it.  Brady has a chance to capture his old skills once again, if he wants to, regardless of where people were drafted.

     



    You kind of speak out of both sides of your mouth on Welker, Rusty.  On one hand, he's no good and the Pats were smart to let him walk because $6 million was more than he was worth, on the other hand he's HOF talent.  You try to argue yourself out of this predicament by saying they let Welker go because Brady had some kind of obsession with him and Belichick was trying to break them apart (i.e., when logic fails, resort to crazy talk).

    A more balanced perspective is that Welker was okay, but Brady (and the offensive system) made him look great.  Even Moss was pretty mediocre before and after he was with the Pats.  Maybe Brady makes bad or washed up players look good?  

    Objectively, Brady hasn't had fabulous weapons around him.  I've been saying that for years.  The offense hasn't been that talented, hasn't been deep, and hasn't been diverse.  I think Belichick and Brady and the OCs do a great job getting such exceptional results from a group that is in many ways an odd collection of misfit talent.  Welker is a great slot receiver, but no one other than Bill Belichick was after this guy when he played for the Dolphins.  Moss had true HOF talent, but he was underperforming in Oakland and hasn't done much since he left the Pats.  Running backs like Sammy Morris and BJGE aren't world beaters.  Deion Branch in his second incarnation?  Julian Edelman?  Brandon (cut after one year) Lloyd?  Danny Woodhead?  Sure Gronk and Hern are (were) legitimate NFL starters and Ridley and Vereen seem like decent backs and hopefully some of the rookies this year pan out, but beyond that, the skill positions haven't been the strongest in the NFL by a long shot.  Brady has done very well to run a top-scoring offense given the collection of guys BB has provided him with.  It's not Brady who's responsible for the team's failure to win a Super Bowl.  In fact, without Brady, they would have never even come close to the Super Bowl--they may not have even made the playoffs.  And similarly, it's not the offensive coordinators who messed up.  This offense didn't really have the raw talent to be one of the top-scoring offense's in NFL history.  But Brady, Belichick, O'Brien, and McDaniels made it that by getting the absolute most out of limited talent. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    and just like that, the troll was gone!  POOOF!   What a Fraud!  All he could say about my post is that it was a crappy point!?  and Leave it to Rusty to say having a whole new set of recievers who have never played the game = Loaded!  LMAO!  anything to make Brady look bad. Like I said,. The 6th rounder has done nothing short of magic considering the Junk he is given. Outside of Wes, we had NO legit option last year and if LLoyd was so good, why did they cut him making 3mill and his *ass is still looking for work at the tender age of 29 while guys like Bolden got a contract pushing 40?  LOL

     

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