1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/12/2012 10:30 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : So your asking if BB could have improved on what is already considered the best team building job in NFL history as we have won more games then any team ever in a 12 year period and 5 Sb appearances in 12 years? If somebody else picked BB's players for him could he have done a better job then the best ever accomplished? How would that work? Perhaps if JC himself came down from the heavens above and chose BB's players for him we would have won a few more games..... I guess.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    Aren't you forgetting much of his most successful teams weren't "built" by him? Of course you are. Catch up with the rest of us that actually are paying attention TrueChump.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/12/2012 10:47 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : Aren't you forgetting much of his most successful teams weren't "built" by him? Of course you are. Catch up with the rest of us that actually are paying attention TrueChump.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Belichick hater's... indicative of a Jest's troll.  

    One can be a Patriot fan and still be critical of Belichick.  

    But it's funny how it's league consensus that Belichick and The Patriots are the vanguard team in the NFL, but one of it's supposed fans (you lol) is the biggest hater???

    Smells like a troll, sounds like a troll... must be a troll.

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/12/2012 11:19 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : Belichick hater's... indicative of a Jest's troll.   One can be a Patriot fan and still be critical of Belichick.   But it's funny how it's league consensus that Belichick and The Patriots are the vanguard team in the NFL, but one of it's supposed fans (you lol) is the biggest hater??? Smells like a troll, sounds like a troll... must be a troll.
    Posted by wozzy


    When did I ever say we aren't the vanguard team wozzydoo?

    You think I'm a hater because I point out the truth regarding who built how much of the dynasty teams?
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/12/2012 11:25 PM EDT

    Belichick has drafted more Pro Bowlers during his career as Patriot head coach than anyone else, a local reporter did all the footwork for us so we don't have to. He has the best winning percentage of any active coach. 

    Hate all you want trollski... I find you amusing.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/12/2012 11:29 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    Belichick has drafted more Pro Bowlers during his career as Patriot head coach than anyone else, a local reporter did all the footwork for us so we don't have to. He has the best winning percentage of any active coach.  Hate all you want trollski... I find you amusing.
    Posted by wozzy



    You must be the hater wozztroll, because you don't mention the HOF QB having anything to do with that great record.

    What is BB's record without TB again genius? If you said below .500 you're right.

    Pro-bowlers? Meriweather was pro-bowl twice. So much for that as a measure.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mooney12. Show Mooney12's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/12/2012 11:33 PM EDT

    Man wat yall arguing for.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 1:44 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : When did I ever say we aren't the vanguard team wozzydoo? You think I'm a hater because I point out the truth regarding who built how much of the dynasty teams?
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Based on what what data? BB took over as the HC and GM with Pioli back in January 2000. When comparing the Patriot 2000 roster with the 2001 Patriot roster there were only 16 players remaining on the team:

    Drew Bledsoe - Play in 2001 until he got hurt and Brady replaced him.

    Troy Brown - Retired 2008

    Tedy Bruschi - Retired 2008

    Kevin Faulk - Hasn't retire yet

    Terry Glenn - Traded off season 2002

    Lee Johnson - Punter Released 10/15/2001

    Ted Johnson - Retired 2005

    Tebucky Jones - Traded to N.O. 03 for a 2nd rnd pick  used for Corey Dillion
    Ty Law - Released 2005

    Willie McGinest - Left 2006

    Lawyer Milloy - Released 2003

    Brandon Mitchell - Left  2002

    Marty Moore - Left 2002

    Rod Rutledge - Left 2002

    Adam Vinatieri - Left 2005

    Damein Woody - Left 2004


    This clearly tells me that BB and Pioli cleaned house and rebuilt the team. 

    Then from the 2001 team to the 2003 there were only 7 left from the list.
     
    Don't believe me check it yourself.

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 5:31 AM EDT

    In direct response to Jints question:  Although I'm sure there's some downside to it, the results speak for themselves.  Is BB perfect in either capacity?  Of course not.  Is he about as good as they come in each?  No doubt about it in my opinion; absolutely.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 7:53 AM EDT

    Of course, this is mere speculation at this point, but - how much of the success of the Patriots is due to having Brady? He's a sure HOF'er. The "success" of the Patriots coincides with his "arrival". Brady will be gone sooner rather than later. If the Patriots tank, what will people/fans/pundits think then?

    BB had a 4 year tenure with the Browns; with a record of 36-44, not exactly HOF'er material. Some will argue that it wasn't long enough to build a team, but whatever. People expect overnight success nowadays.

    Yes, he's a very good coach. The Patriots record since 2000 is fantastic, but it my opinion, the early success was due to good coaching, playmakers, and luck.

    And again, he's a great coach - but IMO, using terms like  "he sucks" is equally as misguided as terms like "In BB We Trust" (which implies he does no wrong...).
    Neither is true.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 8:44 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    Of course, this is mere speculation at this point, but - how much of the success of the Patriots is due to having Brady? He's a sure HOF'er. The "success" of the Patriots coincides with his "arrival". Brady will be gone sooner rather than later. If the Patriots tank, what will people/fans/pundits think then? BB had a 4 year tenure with the Browns; with a record of 36-44, not exactly HOF'er material. Some will argue that it wasn't long enough to build a team, but whatever. People expect overnight success nowadays. Yes, he's a very good coach. The Patriots record since 2000 is fantastic, but it my opinion, the early success was due to good coaching, playmakers, and luck. And again, he's a great coach - but IMO, using terms like  "he sucks" is equally as misguided as terms like "In BB We Trust" (which implies he does no wrong...). Neither is true.
    Posted by anonymis


    Good to great QB's are hard to find, just ask the Jets, Fins, and Bills. I doubt the Patriots will tank. If the Patriots were to lose TB then it's fair to say they would have to see how their current backups would do with the current system. Not many QB's are as gifted at reading defenses as well at TB. There's no way of knowing just how good Hoyer or Mallet would perform until they have played/started in a real NFL game. There's only so much coaching you can do. But the Patriots are high on Mallet and it will be fun to watch how he does this year after watching TB, off season programs and the upcoming training camp. Will it make Hoyer expendable? Sorry off topic... 

    There's no doubt BB made mistakes in Cleveland as he has here in N.E. and he's not afraid to admit it. Like most intellegent people he learnt from those mistakes. As for Cleveland's record while he was HC he had them in the playoffs in 94 with a 11 -5 season and beat the Patriots in the 1st round. 95 was a complete disaster once word got out that the team was moving after at end of the season and the word leaked after the 3rd game. I think BB leant that you need a stable environment which is why he also left the Jets and came to N.E.  
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 8:56 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : Good to great QB's are hard to find, just ask the Jets, Fins, and Bills. I doubt the Patriots will tank. If the Patriots were to lose TB then it's fair to say they would have to see how their current backups would do with the current system. Not many QB's are as gifted at reading defenses as well at TB. There's no way of knowing just how good Hoyer or Mallet would perform until they have played/started in a real NFL game. There's only so much coaching you can do. But the Patriots are high on Mallet and it will be fun to watch how he does this year after watching TB, off season programs and the upcoming training camp. Will it make Hoyer expendable? Sorry off topic...  There's no doubt BB made mistakes in Cleveland as he has here in N.E. and he's not afraid to admit it. Like most intellegent people he learnt from those mistakes. As for Cleveland's record while he was HC he had them in the playoffs in 94 with a 11 -5 season and beat the Patriots in the 1st round. 95 was a complete disaster once word got out that the team was moving after at end of the season and the word leaked after the 3rd game. I think BB leant that you need a stable environment which is why he also left the Jets and came to N.E.  
    Posted by GO47


    Exactly, but there are a handful of fans who truly believe that he doesn't make mistakes...just like there are a handfull of fans who are overly critical of BB.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 9:02 AM EDT

    Name a great head coach who won without a great QB.
    Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, Patriots
    Vince Lombardi and Bart Starr, Packers
    Bill Walsh and Joe Montana, 49ers
    Chuck Noll and Terry Bradshaw, Steelers
    Don Shula and Bob Griese, Dolphins
    Don Shula and Dan Marino, Dolphins
    Tom Landry and Roger Staubach, Cowboys
    Marv Levy and Jim Kelly, Bills
    Go ahead and try.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 9:30 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    [QUOTE]Name a great head coach who won without a great QB. Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, Patriots Vince Lombardi and Bart Starr, Packers Bill Walsh and Joe Montana, 49ers Chuck Noll and Terry Bradshaw, Steelers Don Shula and Bob Griese, Dolphins Don Shula and Dan Marino, Dolphins Tom Landry and Roger Staubach, Cowboys Marv Levy and Jim Kelly, Bills Go ahead and try.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOT0]

    dunno if that's a bad omen or not, when Brady is gone will we return to times of futility? lol Laughing  Enjoy it while we can, folks.....
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 9:43 AM EDT

    Mark my words, when Brady retires the Patriot's will continue to win with Belichick as coach.

    Football teams have 53 man roster's, it's a coaches league. 

    Unless of course someone else can explain to me how the 49er's went from doormat to the best team in the NFC in one season when Harbaugh arrived with the same group of player's?

    This was rare, usually it takes any great coach a couple season's to turn around a completely void of talent franchise, especially one as inept as The Browns. Did you think BB would magically wave his wand and they would be good?  

    Within 2 seasons he had the Browns on the doorstep to the Super Bowl so including Bill's coaching record without Brady proves nothing.  He went 11-5 when Brady went down starting a guy who didn't even start a game in college. 

    He drafted Tom Brady, a QB who only started the first half his final season in Michigan and was replaced by somebody else, nobody else did.

    It's a coaches league, hater's and trolls can hate all they want, those are the real facts.

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 9:47 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    dunno if that's a bad omen or not, when Brady is gone will we return to times of futility? lol   Enjoy it while we can, folks.....
    Posted by anonymis

    Not necessarily, anonymis. Joe Gibbs won super bowls with Joe Theismann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. Williams and Rypien were super bowl MVPs. There are always exceptions.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 10:21 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : Aren't you forgetting much of his most successful teams weren't "built" by him? Of course you are. Catch up with the rest of us that actually are paying attention TrueChump.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    You have an agenda friend, but luckily your not very intelligent.

    Who picked up these players that helped us win 3 SB's and attain the best record in NFL history over the 12 years BB has been running this team?

    The answer of course is Bill Belichick, the greatest coach/GM in the salary cap era, and probably ever.

    Have fun trolling.

    Tom Brady
    Richard Seymour
    Matt Light
    David Patten
    Stephen Neal
    Anthony Pleasant
    Larry Izzo
    Mike Vrabel
    Terrell Buckley
    Brian Cox
    Antowain Smith
    Joe Andruzzi
    Mike Compton
    Greg Randall
    Bobby Hamilton
    Ty Warren
    Eugene Wilson
    Asante Samuel
    Dan Koppen
    Deion Branch
    David Givens
    Jarvis Green
    Roman Phifer
    Rodney Harrison
    Corey Dillon
    Ted Washington
    Vince Wilfork
    Tyrone Poole
    Jermaine Wiggins
    Randy Moss
    Wes Welker
    Donte Stalworth
    Jabar Gaffney
    Laurence Maroney
    BJGE
    Sammy Morris
    Danny Woodhead
    Rob Gronkowski
    Aaron Hernandez
    Sebastian Volmer
    Nate Solder
    Brian Waters
    Kyle Love
    Leigh Bodden(1 very good year)
    Brandon Merriweather
    Devon Mccourty
    Kyle Arrington
    Jerod Mayo
    Brandon Spikes
    Rob Ninkovic
    Andre Carter
    Mark Anderson
    Big Gerrard Warren

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 10:52 AM EDT

    Posts: 4989
    First: 3/27/2005
    Last: 5/13/2012
    Belichick has drafted more Pro Bowlers during his career as Patriot head coach than anyone else, a local reporter did all the footwork for us so we don't have to. He has the best winning percentage of any active coach. 

    Hate all you want trollski... I find you amusing


    Boy I'm glad your spelt that right.



     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 11:27 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : Not necessarily, anonymis. Joe Gibbs won super bowls with Joe Theismann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. Williams and Rypien were super bowl MVPs. There are always exceptions.
    Posted by digger0862


    yes, but they're exceptions for a reason Laughing

    it's not like the qb's you mentioned were bad QBs who replaced HOF qbs.  Winning and losing comes in cycles....
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 12:46 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : You have an agenda friend, but luckily your not very intelligent. Who picked up these players that helped us win 3 SB's and attain the best record in NFL history over the 12 years BB has been running this team? The answer of course is Bill Belichick, the greatest coach/GM in the salary cap era, and probably ever. Have fun trolling. Tom Brady Richard Seymour Matt Light David Patten Stephen Neal Anthony Pleasant Larry Izzo Mike Vrabel Terrell Buckley Brian Cox Antowain Smith Joe Andruzzi Mike Compton Greg Randall Bobby Hamilton Ty Warren Eugene Wilson Asante Samuel Dan Koppen Deion Branch David Givens Jarvis Green Roman Phifer Rodney Harrison Corey Dillon Ted Washington Vince Wilfork Tyrone Poole Jermaine Wiggins Randy Moss Wes Welker Donte Stalworth Jabar Gaffney Laurence Maroney BJGE Sammy Morris Danny Woodhead Rob Gronkowski Aaron Hernandez Sebastian Volmer Nate Solder Brian Waters Kyle Love Leigh Bodden(1 very good year) Brandon Merriweather Devon Mccourty Kyle Arrington Jerod Mayo Brandon Spikes Rob Ninkovic Andre Carter Mark Anderson Big Gerrard Warren
    Posted by TrueChamp


    Spot on TrueChamp! But like every GM Pioli and BB didn't always pick the right guys but enough to make the Patriots one of the best organizations in NFL history.  Thanks to BB this run isn't over!
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jri37. Show jri37's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 1:41 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : here's a fair question from an outside perspective and I will be interested to see what Pats fans say: would Bellichick be a better coach if he wasn't also the GM? Could it be said there might have been the same run if not moreso if he didn't wear both hats? I am curious what you guys think about that.
    Posted by JintsFan


    As I stated in my earlier post without BB making the decision as both GM and coach to not only draft Brady but to also keep him as the 4th QB and take up a valuable roster spot it is likely the Pat's would never have had the success they have had and are still having now.

    Has he made some mistakes in the personel area... absolutely but that being said one of his strongest attributes as a GM is cutting his losses and mistakes without worrying about public perception.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 6:39 PM EDT

    In response to "Re: In BB WeTrust":
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : Spot on TrueChamp! But like every GM Pioli and BB didn't always pick the right guys but enough to make the Patriots one of the best organizations in NFL history.  Thanks to BB this run isn't over! Posted by GO47
    Yeah, trolls and guys with an agenda would point out guys that didn't make it and say absurd things like "BB is an average GM" HAHA. Luckily we all know these guys have absolutely nothing to support the outrageous statements they make! We won't hear from babey again, and if we do.....it won't mean much.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/13/2012 8:00 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In response to "Re: In BB WeTrust": Yeah, trolls and guys with an agenda would point out guys that didn't make it and say absurd things like "BB is an average GM" HAHA. Luckily we all know these guys have absolutely nothing to support the outrageous statements they make! We won't hear from babey again, and if we do.....it won't mean much.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I enjoy reading other people's opinions on subject matters but then I respect them more if it's based on real facts. My job and life in general doesn't always allow me to participate in these discussions but before I do I like taking the time to do the research first and then share my findings based on the facts not just on my personal feelings.

    Thanks for taking the next logical step to show just who BB and Pioli did bring in to build those great teams. Pretty impressive list of players! 
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/14/2012 1:41 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : I enjoy reading other people's opinions on subject matters but then I respect them more if it's based on real facts. My job and life in general doesn't always allow me to participate in these discussions but before I do I like taking the time to do the research first and then share my findings based on the facts not just on my personal feelings. Thanks for taking the next logical step to show just who BB and Pioli did bring in to build those great teams. Pretty impressive list of players! 
    Posted by GO47


    Yeah its nice to see them listed. I think we get spoiled and forget how many great players BB brought aboard.

    I have to give credit to PCMIV( I think it was him) that put together half of this list from a thread a few months back!
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishingII. Show BassFishingII's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/14/2012 2:26 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust:
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : You have an agenda friend, but luckily your not very intelligent. Who picked up these players that helped us win 3 SB's and attain the best record in NFL history over the 12 years BB has been running this team? The answer of course is Bill Belichick, the greatest coach/GM in the salary cap era, and probably ever. Have fun trolling. Tom Brady Richard Seymour Matt Light David Patten Stephen Neal Anthony Pleasant Larry Izzo Mike Vrabel Terrell Buckley Brian Cox Antowain Smith Joe Andruzzi Mike Compton Greg Randall Bobby Hamilton Ty Warren Eugene Wilson Asante Samuel Dan Koppen Deion Branch David Givens Jarvis Green Roman Phifer Rodney Harrison Corey Dillon Ted Washington Vince Wilfork Tyrone Poole Jermaine Wiggins Randy Moss Wes Welker Donte Stalworth Jabar Gaffney Laurence Maroney BJGE Sammy Morris Danny Woodhead Rob Gronkowski Aaron Hernandez Sebastian Volmer Nate Solder Brian Waters Kyle Love Leigh Bodden(1 very good year) Brandon Merriweather Devon Mccourty Kyle Arrington Jerod Mayo Brandon Spikes Rob Ninkovic Andre Carter Mark Anderson Big Gerrard Warren
    Posted by TrueChamp


    He'll never concede defeat on this topic or the passing, finesse offense addiction debates.

    He's lost both and simply can't get himself to admit he has. Can you imagine him being wrong on his job? Oh my.

    I know he;s in his 60s, but I don't think he works anymore. That's sick, really. A 60 year+ old invidual so enamored with Brady and protecting Brady on a board, he has to use the anti-BB angle to prop up Brady?  I just can't imagine it. It's like my dad or my uncles behaving the way he does, so enamored with Brady and somehow enraged with BB as the greatest coach and GM of all time, he doesn't like it?

    How does any Pats fan call BB as a GM "average" when the cap is really set up to make things really difficult to win year in and year out?

    I kept telling him he'd look dumb by following the anti-BB media and warned of our flawed offense in the postseason.  He just doesn't want to learn.  He toted around the mantras of ESPN, Mazz, Felger, etc here, but now who looks foolish?

    Also, apparently, Peter King thinks the Giants set the blueprint in the cap era. LMAO
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: In BB WeTrust

    posted at 5/14/2012 2:38 PM EDT

    In response to "Re: In BB WeTrust":
    In Response to Re: In BB WeTrust : I think you're very wrong in one respect with regard to Moss. In the first year with the Pats Moss had something to prove and look at that season. He's in the same position now, especially after not producing for so long. Moss for sure has a big ego and if that serves to motivate him he could have a big year if his skills haven't eroded. Only time will tell who is right.  As for the Pats resigning him, BB will not resign problem children. I'd rather Brandon Loyd.  Hetchinspete Posted by Hetchinspete
    Big difference in that Moss had Brady. Now he has Alex smith. 2 different leagues as QB, plus regardless of how good a shape moss is in, he is still 4-5 years older.